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Author Topic: Goblin Fortress  (Read 33414 times)

astianax

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2012, 12:17:56 am »

drat, i was actually hoping you'd prove me wrong on the necromancer-rulership bit. really didn't want to be right there...

as for the goblins as a cave civ, i was reading somewhere else here in the mod forums about cave civ's not really expanding, since they can't *build* more caves...that'd sorta limit how sizable they can get, which, again, isn't really fun. that may be part of why the elves have such an easy time of taking over...

and yeah, didn't expect you were gonna make goblins mortal, but figured it'd be worth mentioning, anyway
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RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2012, 01:37:32 am »

well, i did add the tag for building outdoor fortifications.... so they SHOULD be building keeps, as well as taking over other sites.  perhaps i can have them start in caves, but expand to other sites by changing the "likes_site:" tag to cities or towns or whatever it is.

i am now going to embark a fortress and try to build a tower.
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2012, 01:48:28 am »

this embark i pick one of the two available goblin civs.  neither one seems to have any settlements.  it is hard to find where the goblin caves are, i've only found one cave (and it belonged to kobolds, and even went into the first cavern layer) in adventure mode.

my migrants may be autogenned, presumably from populations of bandits scattered throughout the land.  i have a few families, but have not experienced waves of child emigrants, snatched or otherwise.  so far, all of my emigrants have only been members of this civ, and have been around hundreds of years, somehow, without doing anything notable.

i chose a flat jungle, bisected by a stream.  i am at war with the elves, the dwarves, and the humans.  there have been kobolds.

i immediately channel out the courtyard, and then build a wall around my diggings.  i send a shaft down two z-s to get some stone, and build workshops in the courtyard.  namely craftsgoblins workshop,  butchers, kitchen, masonry, carpentry, and mechanics.  i have a hunter shooting emus.

i pasture my trolls at the opening to my walled, sunken courtyard, and build a raising bridge to serve as the final portion of the wall, for defensive reasons.  i send out woodcutters.  everyone else starts hauling stone to the mason's to make stone blocks.

blocks take too long, so i build a floor in the courtyard, then a wall around it.  i put in stairs up in the corner, then start roofing it off.  then i wall in the roof, and the tower is started.  it is summer.

by autumn, my warlord is pissed.  he does not yet have his bedroom, office, or dining room.  in fact, he has been sleeping in the dirt with all of the lower goblins.  he's been forced to drink out of a murky pond.  so the second floor of the tower becomes the warlord's chambers.  i get his requirements met, just as i start construction on the third and fourth levels of the tower, the start of the goblin apartments.  i section out the tower to make 6 single rooms (bed, cabinet, and coffer/chest) with a larger space for two groupings of three tables and chairs.  on some floors i replace a room with a staircase, so that the ways up and down vary from floor to floor.

i start up the furnaces making charcoal out of the jungle i am clearcutting, and smelting the ore ive extracted in my thirst for building stone.  i start cutting the channels for the well.  it is winter.  i forgot something.  everything freezes in winter.  all of my goblins are thirsty.  i quickly sent herbalists out, build a still and start pumping out barrels.  we make enough booze, just in time to sustain us till the spring thaw.  all the while my cook stealing some for his concoctions, as i had forgotten to forbid booze as a cooking item.

we've got a thriving hunting industry.  getting migrants has slowed construction of the site as a whole because of the need to house them.  the tower keeps going up in levels of apartments.  i also have to keep lining the well channel with stone.  the migrants bring a bunch of trolls.  i DO get a lot of troll children migrants.  ive also had several troll births.  troll children keep throwing parties at tables they can never attend because of their pasture.

the diplomat shows up, with a trading caravan.  i dont have a depot, and i'm pretty sure i dont need anything, so i let them hang. 

the next year though, i have a depot.  and the well is finished.  i started a moat, cross-able by drawbridge, 5 tiles wide.  i clearcut paths to the traders.  they had wagons pulled by trolls.  i traded food for leather, so i can finish up making all the leather items my first military squad will need.  i lost one to dehydration that year.  i think it was the shearer that got his leg broken by a macaque.

i lost two more because they were idiots, and decided they wanted to build the moat edging on the slope that was underwater instead of the nice open tile on the other side.  they have slabs now, for their corpses shall rot in the moat.

trolls to a good job of keeping kobolds out, as well as beating the holy hell out of those damn dirty apes.

i have a stockpile of various metal bars, primarily silver and copper.  i think i still have some leather, but i am pretty sure i do have all the backpacks and waterskins i need for the first squad.

i have yet to assign that squad, or make weapons and armor.  ive been building the tower down as well, walling off where i had mined out, and now carving into the rock itself.  i have two artifacts.  a bed (a "gift" to the warlord) and an amulet, both of galana.

it is spring. 

an ambush, curse the friends of nature!
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #93 on: February 29, 2012, 01:02:26 am »

with the update, i decided to scrap that tower, and generate two new worlds.

the thing i am noticing is that goblins only seem to have two starting civs, anre constantly warred upon, and generally dont really survive worldgen.

ive also noticed that goblins are all atheists.

i will change both of these.  i will tinker with the civ settings till they at least have a 50-50 shot in worldgen.

i will also give goblins religion.  this will potentially increase the number of vampires and werebeasts.

i also wonder what it is about goblins that dictates that night creatures attack, but never kidnap.

and a request, if anyone reads this -

if you have the tool that looks into the dynamically generated raws of a world, can someone give me copies of the "law giver" and "master" positions?
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Courtesy Arloban

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #94 on: February 29, 2012, 09:53:19 pm »

with the update, i decided to scrap that tower, and generate two new worlds.

the thing i am noticing is that goblins only seem to have two starting civs, anre constantly warred upon, and generally dont really survive worldgen.

ive also noticed that goblins are all atheists.

i will change both of these.  i will tinker with the civ settings till they at least have a 50-50 shot in worldgen.

i will also give goblins religion.  this will potentially increase the number of vampires and werebeasts.

i also wonder what it is about goblins that dictates that night creatures attack, but never kidnap.

and a request, if anyone reads this -

if you have the tool that looks into the dynamically generated raws of a world, can someone give me copies of the "law giver" and "master" positions?
This is a little more than you asked for but some of the nobles have to be changed to be appointed by the Custom Law Maker Position, I pulled the names out of a previous versions string dump, can't find them in the current or in world.sav, though the raw nobles and "sacred jesters" appear. also I left out the HFS position originally and may misremember it but it's the "Master" title applied to Demons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 01:56:39 am by Courtesy Arloban »
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Maybe that the dwarves never died and everyone is just shunning them.
"Wait, what are you doing?  I don't want to go in there!  No, I'm still alive, you can't do this to me!  Is Anybody listening?  Hello... Can someone let me out?  Help me!  Is anyone there?  I'm running out of air!"

RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2012, 12:44:37 am »

the hfs stuff is exactally what i need, in order to attempt to keep variable positions, yet have the civ leader be attractable.

is [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:HFS] an actual tag?
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Courtesy Arloban

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2012, 01:20:01 am »

the hfs stuff is exactally what i need, in order to attempt to keep variable positions, yet have the civ leader be attractable.

is [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:HFS] an actual tag?
I'm not sure, I left it out originally, there was a tag for the demonic masters, but now I think it started with CUSTOM_ Like the others.  High Priests and Priests were also included in the string dump, without any CUSTOM_ in front, even though they were in the raws too.
No I had it wrong WORSHIP_HF is the tag, after leaving a search running for the custom law maker string I finally found the old string dump
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
CUSTOM_BANDIT_LEADER is not in this, but it was in the wiki and it works, and now I see where the sacred jesters might be coming from they're high priests.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 01:55:00 am by Courtesy Arloban »
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Maybe that the dwarves never died and everyone is just shunning them.
"Wait, what are you doing?  I don't want to go in there!  No, I'm still alive, you can't do this to me!  Is Anybody listening?  Hello... Can someone let me out?  Help me!  Is anyone there?  I'm running out of air!"

RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2012, 12:44:39 pm »

so, if i wanted a position appointed by variable positions it would be [APPOINTED_BY:CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER]  and to include clowns as an eligible race for the position it would be [ALLOWABLE_RACE:CUSTOM_DEMON]?

and any idea on what [WORSHIP_HF] does?
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Courtesy Arloban

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2012, 02:26:08 pm »

so, if i wanted a position appointed by variable positions it would be [APPOINTED_BY:CUSTOM_LAW_MAKER]  and to include clowns as an eligible race for the position it would be [ALLOWABLE_RACE:CUSTOM_DEMON]?

and any idea on what [WORSHIP_HF] does?
Clowns are already eligible for the position if you use the allowable tag it will mean they are the only ones who can take the position. WORSHIP_HF supposedly makes them impersonate gods, which I left out originally, beause I was sick of seeing them all the time.  I even had a forgotton beast "master" one time who couldn't talk and therefore couldn't give me any quests.
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Maybe that the dwarves never died and everyone is just shunning them.
"Wait, what are you doing?  I don't want to go in there!  No, I'm still alive, you can't do this to me!  Is Anybody listening?  Hello... Can someone let me out?  Help me!  Is anyone there?  I'm running out of air!"

RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2012, 01:35:01 am »

so if i added [WORSHIP_HF] to, say, humans and goblins, they  (humans and goblins) would take over each other's variably positioned civs?

or i add that tag to the dwarven monarch, and elven princess and/or druid to allow clowns to have fair game on anyone's civ?
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

gnome

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #100 on: March 15, 2012, 05:37:44 pm »

Couple things I noticed in Adventure mode.

The first is that when I spawn in a human town that is friendly to me everything is chill between us (unlike every other human or elven city I've been to), but if I accidentally walk into any of them it auto-attacks them and then the entire town turns on me and begins to hunt me down. And I don't completely understand being a goblin making everyone hostile, because in a previous world before this mod I do recall on several occasions meeting goblins who were in guard towers that I enlisted into my party for my quests. If goblins can integrate into other racial societies then I probably shouldn't be instantly demonized by every town I walk into. And what's up with farmers trying to murder me anyway? They won't join my adventures but the moment a goblin walks into their town they get a sudden urge for bloodlust. This has happened to me with my party members that I acquire as well. I'll accidentally walk into one of them and they'll enter a dialogue mode with me where they state their name and tell me they're going to kill me.
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astianax

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #101 on: March 15, 2012, 06:23:15 pm »

i want to say, for adventure mode goblins, that it's the snatcher tag that makes you walk into the surrounding npcs. can't recall if rak took that out or not. but, something similar's been reported before. an 'evil' race just bumping into someone has it auto-attack them, and that pisses the whole civ off. or, it could just be the goblin desire for murder or torture or attacking everything (out of the civ ethics)

as for atheist goblins, i keep getting a small smattering of some that will worship dwarven gods once they get into wars with the dwarves (then again, the most famous of these goblins is the general of a dwarven civ and worships their god of fire). also randomly getting tons of elves and hobgoblins (sort of a blend of goblins and humans) that worship most of my dwarven gods. which is just a tiny bit unexpected. no clue how it's happening, but i kinda like it... actually, it could be because i removed immortality from both goblins and elves. they now live 1500-1700 years each, so may as well be immortal, still. it does cause some to worry about death and become necromancers, though
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Courtesy Arloban

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #102 on: March 15, 2012, 07:39:47 pm »

so if i added [WORSHIP_HF] to, say, humans and goblins, they  (humans and goblins) would take over each other's variably positioned civs?

or i add that tag to the dwarven monarch, and elven princess and/or druid to allow clowns to have fair game on anyone's civ?
It's an entity tag, and I think it's a position that shows up as master, but it's not the law-giver position.  I think it's used whenever a creature with a sphere is worshipped.  It's included with variable position all, and when I leave it out and have variable position for the rest I don't see any clowns(so far).  However my current method of testing is to have multiple entities with different variations of positions.

A sure fire way to have clowns take over the civs is to ramp clowns number up to 1000.  A certain percent of them are humanoid, and very many escape the Circus, some of those are sure to take over a civ.
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Maybe that the dwarves never died and everyone is just shunning them.
"Wait, what are you doing?  I don't want to go in there!  No, I'm still alive, you can't do this to me!  Is Anybody listening?  Hello... Can someone let me out?  Help me!  Is anyone there?  I'm running out of air!"

RAKninja

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #103 on: March 27, 2012, 12:12:46 am »

sorry i havent responded to this recently.... i must be off my game.

recently i have heard that the [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag is similar to effects we have been ascribing to [BABYSNATCHER].  namely, "every other town in the entire world is really hostile to me, except a portion of the starting town" (in my experience, not every part of the starting town is safe.)  perhaps i should actually remove this, and then perhaps the goblins will unite enough to repell those accursed friends of nature and stop the dingos from eating the babies.  also, might only be ethics, but perhaps it may play a part in murder in worldgen.  this bears testing.

so if i added [WORSHIP_HF] to, say, humans and goblins, they  (humans and goblins) would take over each other's variably positioned civs?

or i add that tag to the dwarven monarch, and elven princess and/or druid to allow clowns to have fair game on anyone's civ?
It's an entity tag, and I think it's a position that shows up as master, but it's not the law-giver position.  I think it's used whenever a creature with a sphere is worshipped.  It's included with variable position all, and when I leave it out and have variable position for the rest I don't see any clowns(so far).  However my current method of testing is to have multiple entities with different variations of positions.

A sure fire way to have clowns take over the civs is to ramp clowns number up to 1000.  A certain percent of them are humanoid, and very many escape the Circus, some of those are sure to take over a civ.

i dont think i'll tinker much with civ level positions.  i read somewhere toady and threetoe were testing goblins and seeing how they construct various societies.  this leads me to believe there may be an update sooner rather than later which will perhaps put me out of business, except perhaps uploading a copy of default raws with the controllable tokens on goblins (and the clothing tag removed from trolls, but i think trolls became naked by default not too long ago....  i am unsure)

as it stands, goblins make pretty interesting history, considering towns and religion.  adventurer mode is tolerable, and easily explained as the goblin urge to murder.  i will experiment on that [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag soon, though.  fortress mode is playable.  i need to test the new training system, and i havent yet updated to the fixed eyelid raws yet.  i may update the current version's raws to test taming and how trolls work now, but i do have a current-version dwarf fortress im trying to get off the ground, as well as several other little projects and things (and work and sleep somewhere in there too) to do, so i may be a few days in doing all this.  at least the taming update cut my work down by like 75% in updating the mod.
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Goblin Fortress (NOW UPDATED FOR 34.02!
magma on his bed when he is sleeping, works every time

Black_Legion

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Re: goblin fortress
« Reply #104 on: April 14, 2012, 06:10:05 pm »

This is a bit of threadnomancy... but I've been working on upgrading Blakmane's Dark Dwarves(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34022.msg509480#msg509480 ) mod to 34.xx and found that they only really have access to Trolls (Due to the [EVIL] and [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]) which makes for some boring embarks.

As such I'm adding some new evil creatures that can be used by any civilization with the [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] and wondered if you would like take a peak at the raws for them and see if they could fit with your mod. I'm plan on using them as well but figured others would like to use them either for inspiration or in their own mods.

Here's what I've got so far:
 
Creatures:
=========
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Think these would work for your mod?
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