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Author Topic: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?  (Read 7523 times)

Footkerchief

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2011, 09:49:43 am »

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Cespinarve

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2011, 03:05:47 pm »

I'm personally strongly against it.  It's intrusive.  And probably damaging.  Both to our computers and to the site's reputation.

Yeah, no. Damaging? Ever site does it nowadays. So long as I don't have to deal with pop-up trailers, I'm fine.
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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2011, 03:11:02 pm »

I only have one thing to say about this...

NO.
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Anathema

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2011, 03:33:33 pm »

I feel I should play devil's advocate and point out that ads aren't necessarily intrusive, offensive, malware-laden, evil and harmful to a site's reputation. Many are, sure, but some sites are able to advertise tastefully, or at least harmlessly. For example Penny Arcade has a stated policy of only advertising games they've played and approve of, and thus their ads tend to stick more or less to what readers might want to see. Some lesser-known webcomics I read like to share advertisement with other similar webcomics, which is great for all of them. I go to Gamespot and see ads for the same kind of games I go there to read reviews of; sometimes they're terrible games I'm not interested in, but the content is appropriate and I can't complain. And while I don't doubt the horror stories of some ads spreading malware, well, all I can say is my pc has never caught anything while visiting reputable sites.

The point is that ads can be carefully chosen to have content matching what people visit the site for, such that they don't hurt the site, and maybe even advertise something you'd be interested to find out about; it can be a win for everyone. That being said.. I have difficulty imagining any ads with content appropriate to Dwarf Fortress. Toady could advertise mainstream games he approves of, except he doesn't play them, and he's hardly in Penny Arcade's position to review games prerelease (i.e. when they do the most advertising) even if he wanted to. Or he could share advertising with games similar to Dwarf Fortress.. er.. wait, what similar games?

So I'm not against Bay12 helping to support itself with advertising (in theory), I think ads can be a win-win if they're appropriate to the website, I just can't think what could possibly be appropriate ad content for Bay12.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 03:44:04 pm by Anathema »
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Capntastic

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2011, 05:50:49 pm »

That's not a good reason to oppose having ads if you ask me.

As has been pointed out, Toady is adamant against ads.  But let me clarify:  Any ad setup Toady pursues would require an investment of time that is far from being a one-time setup.  The amount of money gained from this wouldn't be enough to recoup the opportunity cost of Toady doing other things, even if the time investment was something like an hour a week.  Given that Toady is one person, and his time is at a premium with handling emails, doing donation rewards, forum stuff, and developing the game- all avenues which are pretty solid cornerstones of his donation setup- fussing about with adsense isn't worth it.  A forum's popularity really doesn't automatically translate into massive ad revenues.  Especially when the forum caters to people who typically have a distaste for mainstream games/products, etc.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2011, 10:46:01 pm »

  I could see possibly joining some sort of indy-game ad-ring where they advertise for each other on each other's sites, but that wouldn't really generate income per se, just awareness.

  However, awareness might in turn generate donation activity.

  I could see, for instance, Minecraft and Dwarf Fortress advertising for each other.  Anyone new to either website might click to see what this other game is and bam, they are now aware of both sites.

  An ad-ring designed to broaden awareness rather than directly increase income might actually pass muster even with the DF forum crowd.  Most of us here wouldn't mind being made aware of new indy games - at least I wouldn't.  Considering that we have a whole forum section designed specifically for us to talk about other games.

 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 10:53:51 pm by Farmerbob »
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Makbeth

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2011, 12:45:29 pm »

Every couple years someone looks into the possibility of projecting their logo on the moon.  We have ads that play before, during, and after video clips online, even when those clips are themselves ads (such as movie and game trailers).  There's research into using prosthetic and cybernetic devices to make your body a platform for advertising to both yourself and others.

The world does not suffer a shortage of advertising anywhere.  The places in the modern world or the internet where you can be free of them are rare, and I treasure those places because it is not hard to imagine a world 10 years in the future where advertisements are projected onto the inner side of your eyelids when you close your eyes or sleep.  I would advise those who think that there needs to be less of these havens to take a moment and consider the possibility that there might be something horribly wrong with you.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 12:54:46 pm by Makbeth »
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tolkafox

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2011, 08:43:04 pm »

I support ads, as long as this is all they advertise.

Seriously though, I don't know anyone here who wouldn't block the ads, and I don't feel like staring at more (Page cannot be found) banners.
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Dangazzm

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2011, 10:47:43 pm »

I am ok with it as long as Toady changes his mind... he is ruler after all.

Though the advertisements transmitting malware is unfounded. Facebook ads will do this as they run their own advertising system that they don't regulate well or at all... all they wanna see in the money. Something like Google Adsense would NOT have such things in them as any self respecting webmaster would remove them IMMEDIATELY if they did. The best way to implement them would also be to have a hook in the template that shows ads AFTER the first post as in a single banner which would be half the size of a normal /post. Seems very /plausible to me and could generate a little extra for nothing... so I don't really see how anyone could be AGAINST it if done properly which you all know he would as he treats us right :P
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Sowelu

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2011, 11:54:44 pm »

Hey, don't say malware in banners is unfounded.  It's happened QUITE a lot of times on some pretty legit sites.  Maybe they weren't using the ad engines you mentioned, but quite a few legit ad engines did manage to let some malware slip through before they patched their holes.
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rex mortis

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2011, 01:59:49 am »

I do not like using my limited bandwidth to load ads I will not click anyway.
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Neonivek

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2011, 02:30:49 am »

Not to mention that if Toady wanted unintrusive ads he would have to filter through him, himself.

I don't mind some ads on other sites but they have started to get worse with images that can actually slow my computer down, or get in the way, or are just outright obnoxious. Such as Videosites that have video gifs RIGHT BESIDE THE VIDEO!... Sure I could put it full screen if I wanted some sort of blurry mess...

Dwarf Fortress having no advertisements is one of the major reasons I come back here everyday.

Frankly I thought it was HORRIBLE enough when a Strip mall opened up not 5 minutes of driving away from my house that had a HUGE screen TV that just spouts advertisements 24/7 that is actually painful to look at if your driving late at night. I'd pay to have that taken down.

Heck some programs on sites have started to get smarter and now don't countdown if you move away from the site (I've found a way around it...) so you can't ignore it.

So let me be clear with NO copy and pasting

No no no no no no no no no no no no nope never ever no no no no nope no no no no no nada no nononononononono no nope nope nope no no no no no no no no no no no no not even in your dreams I hate is so much and I can't believe anyone would consider it because they must be so desensatised with constant advertisement all the time nearly all the time no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

I'd do more... but frankly it would get intrusive if I wrote anymore no.
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Dangazzm

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2011, 02:49:04 am »

Hey, don't say malware in banners is unfounded.  It's happened QUITE a lot of times on some pretty legit sites.  Maybe they weren't using the ad engines you mentioned, but quite a few legit ad engines did manage to let some malware slip through before they patched their holes.

Oh yea they do... but those are other lesser /paying and lesser quality than Google ran ads. They have their faults but security really isn't one of them. But yea I HONOSTLY didn't think this many would be SO against it hah. Learn something everyday.
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Jake

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2011, 03:13:24 am »

Even if Toady selected an ad-streaming service with an impeccable security record, there's still the problem of making the ads useful and relevant to the content of the site. A lot of them attempt to match the ads to the content of the webpage they're on through keywords, with results that one might tactfully describe as "mixed", and the mind frankly boggles at what an ad-engine might decide to show based on some of the discussions on this forum.

Besides, our hosts aren't exactly in desperate need of a second revenue stream if the August '11 Report is anything to go by; their average pre-tax income since March is a little under $3850 a month. I don't know if he's ever revealed how much it costs to host the website, but I'd be extremely surprised -and strongly advise him to shop around for somewhere better- if it was more than $150 a month.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Does anybody else support putting ads on the forums?
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2011, 03:35:08 am »

  All the negative comments about ads seem to make sense to me, to varying degrees.

  I'd like to draw attention back to the alternative of simply working with other indy game developers and linking each other in something like an ad-ring.

  There should be no income stream directly from the ads, but all of the different indy games cater to gamers outside the mainstream, so if you actually advertise only other legit indy game sites, you are likely to get a lot more cross-fertilization of gamers between games.

  More people aware of indie games means a larger pool of potential players for everyone, and places within the indie community for gamers to go that are close to home when they have burnt out on <x> game for a while.  The income would come from increased donations due to more people.

  You could limit "ads" to 4x standard avatar size, and limit them to stills.  One Image.  This level of additional load on one's bandwidth should be pretty much nothing to most internet connections.

  I don't see something like this happening spontaneously though.  And I don't see Toady putting a lot of effort into implementing it with everything he's working on right now.

  However...  With the recent limelight that DF has just received, there would be no better time than now for Toady to approach other indy gaming companies with the idea of self advertising within the genre on each others' web pages.
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