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Author Topic: Dwarven... "Child Care"  (Read 623481 times)

Girlinhat

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #240 on: August 26, 2011, 11:20:16 pm »

Cats and dogs are different tiers.  A dog is what, 30k, and a cat is 5k?  That's 6x difference in size, and makes them quite different.  Foxes and cats are on the same level.

When people are discussing their reports and findings, we need a lot more information.  Construction methods (size, materials, quality), waterfall or lack thereof, anything to admire, type and number of animals, etc.  A report of "three animals and he died" is not sufficient for this ‼science‼  We need accurate reports from which to extrapolate data.

Remember: too much data can be sifted through; insufficient data cannot be reliably broadened.

Eddren

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #241 on: August 26, 2011, 11:29:58 pm »

Each of the Statues was of varying quality. I did not specify one. Platinum is the requirement I made for each of the Statues, however.
The bed was Masterwork, and Nethercap.
And yes, I *know* that. I was simply stating that any bird would be too weak to be enough. Cat-Dog is the minimum to maximum. Any higher, and the chance of death is too high.
The Waterfall wasn't an added feature, but is very much necessary.
                                SSS
But here's the design: B>bN  That's the main floor. N is for Nest-Box, S is for Statue, > is a Down-Stairs with a Hatch-Cover(Recommended you use
                             L  SSS      a Door, and not a Hatch-Cover, in order to allow for minimal space.) B is Bridge, b is bed, and finally L is Lever.

                                 W
                                DBW That's the floor above it. It's a Bridge surrounded by walls and doors. Place the supplies/Animals/Children on it, pull the
                                  D     Lever. W = Wall, B = Bridge again, D = Door, L = Lever, + = Floor.
                                 L+
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Ah, my dwarven heart beats with fierce pride for this.  I can't take it anymore!  I have to go do something profound.

Girlinhat

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #242 on: August 26, 2011, 11:40:58 pm »

I can't understand the diagram there...  Use the code /code HTML tags, located above the typing box as the # in the menu.  It evens everything out into straight lines, and you can even use the same characters as DF if you use the character table.  Not that it matters, because it seems no one plays in ASCII anymore...

monk12

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #243 on: August 26, 2011, 11:47:36 pm »

Each of the Statues was of varying quality. I did not specify one. Platinum is the requirement I made for each of the Statues, however.
The bed was Masterwork, and Nethercap.
And yes, I *know* that. I was simply stating that any bird would be too weak to be enough. Cat-Dog is the minimum to maximum. Any higher, and the chance of death is too high.
The Waterfall wasn't an added feature, but is very much necessary.
                                SSS
But here's the design: B>bN  That's the main floor. N is for Nest-Box, S is for Statue, > is a Down-Stairs with a Hatch-Cover(Recommended you use
                             L  SSS      a Door, and not a Hatch-Cover, in order to allow for minimal space.) B is Bridge, b is bed, and finally L is Lever.

                                 W
                                DBW That's the floor above it. It's a Bridge surrounded by walls and doors. Place the supplies/Animals/Children on it, pull the
                                  D     Lever. W = Wall, B = Bridge again, D = Door, L = Lever, + = Floor.
                                 L+

Ah, but see, Cats are the same size as turkeys, and turkeys have much higher growth rate- even if they fail to be self-sustaining within the Chamber itself, they are still easy to mass produce and introduce later.

I've decided to go ahead and convert my caverns into a multipurpose !!SCIENCE!! lab- it gives me something to do when I'm waiting for construction materials for the main fortress project, and it seems appropriate. The caverns are otherwise uninhabited, apart from the odd FB. I'll need to wait an in-game year for my turkey/dog shipment to arrive, but that's alright since I need the time to prepare the Chambers.

EDIT: Hey, I use ASCII! Heck, the only mod/utility I use is Soundsense, mostly so I can hear what's going on while I dick around on the forums.

Eddren

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #244 on: August 26, 2011, 11:55:03 pm »

M'yeh, still.
Anyway, that's the extent of it. Make of it what you will..
..And you don't really want a crud-ton of things stuffed into the smallest possible room. It should be two-to-three for the fact that you'll need constant replacements otherwise, plus it's just big enough for reproduction.
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Ah, my dwarven heart beats with fierce pride for this.  I can't take it anymore!  I have to go do something profound.

nerdyboy321123

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #245 on: August 27, 2011, 01:16:57 am »

Ah... should have claimed the wine after dropping it...
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how exactly did you weaponize cows into emissary-assassins without causing the expected loyalty cascade?

Madurjafro

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #246 on: August 27, 2011, 06:48:41 am »

How about if we make one big room, dump half of all children in it, and put 1-2 dangerous non-tame animals, that way the kids have more of a chance of survival. Dump in food as needed, have a waterfall in the corner. I say half of all children because some need to go into the civilian sector.

This is like the Dwarven version of the Spartan society.
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zombat

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #247 on: August 27, 2011, 07:01:06 am »

What are you scientists doing to get rid of all the animal corpses?

Surely the stench of rotting turkey is going to effect the subjects morale
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Dsarker

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #248 on: August 27, 2011, 07:32:06 am »

How about if we make one big room, dump half of all children in it, and put 1-2 dangerous non-tame animals, that way the kids have more of a chance of survival. Dump in food as needed, have a waterfall in the corner. I say half of all children because some need to go into the civilian sector.

This is like the Dwarven version of the Spartan society.

Because either the kids will all die or the animals will die. Rapidly.
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Quote from: NewsMuffin
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Yag Alone

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #249 on: August 27, 2011, 08:22:27 am »

Perhaps give the child another room that he never uses, a private royal dining hall, he may get good thoughts from owning it even if never using it.

A private royal tomb would be more topical :)
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monk12

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #250 on: August 27, 2011, 11:30:20 am »

What are you scientists doing to get rid of all the animal corpses?

Surely the stench of rotting turkey is going to effect the subjects morale

Personally, I plan to cast some light on the situation by exposing the room to the surface, then flooring over it again. This should prevent clouds of miasma, although since my embark freezes in winter it would mean I can't use a mist generator. I plan to get around the lack through lots of engraving, a nice statue or two, and masterwork roasts.

If anyone has a better solution than that, I want to hear about it!

Eddren

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #251 on: August 27, 2011, 12:20:19 pm »

..Not even going to bother pointing out the reason why it's a waste to only ever designate masterwork food.

Anyway, you don't want to put a ton of children in a *large* room with a *small* amount of animals, because the animals will die too quickly, they won't get ANY training from it if the animals DO survive, and food will be a constant need.
You want a smaller room, 2 kids max, with 4-5 animals at most, and 2-3 at minimum. 3-4 is optimal, with 3 leaning towards the 2-1 space rooms, and 4 leaning towards 3-4 space rooms.
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Ah, my dwarven heart beats with fierce pride for this.  I can't take it anymore!  I have to go do something profound.

Girlinhat

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #252 on: August 27, 2011, 01:44:25 pm »

Why not make a big communal training pit?
Friends.

Also, to keep the cage above-ground and still allow a waterfall, expose only the center of the cage to light, while allowing the edges to be dark and flooded.  Some careful use of water will be needed.

Dsarker

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #253 on: August 27, 2011, 05:00:38 pm »

Why not make a big communal training pit?
Friends.

Also, to keep the cage above-ground and still allow a waterfall, expose only the center of the cage to light, while allowing the edges to be dark and flooded.  Some careful use of water will be needed.

Or dig multiple Z level channels.
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Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Dwarven... "Child Care"
« Reply #254 on: August 27, 2011, 06:00:05 pm »

..Not even going to bother pointing out the reason why it's a waste to only ever designate masterwork food.

Anyway, you don't want to put a ton of children in a *large* room with a *small* amount of animals, because the animals will die too quickly, they won't get ANY training from it if the animals DO survive, and food will be a constant need.
You want a smaller room, 2 kids max, with 4-5 animals at most, and 2-3 at minimum. 3-4 is optimal, with 3 leaning towards the 2-1 space rooms, and 4 leaning towards 3-4 space rooms.

The children will never be the aggressor.  The animals will die in proportion to the total creature density and the children's skill, both of which you want high, not directly in proportion to the number of children.

More children in a single room is easier food-wise than single children in lots of rooms.  It means a single dump, and good use of large stacks.

I think the multiple children in a single chamber is a good idea, because it allows you to use a larger room and fewer animals while maintaining creature density.  Larger room means access to more happiness boosts because you have more room.  The main problem I can see with multiple children is separating them from the pack when they're grown, but pressure plate-hatch combos that trigger on certain small weights could keep them out of a lever room meant to separate adults.  Unfortunately, that would mean a square that had the potential to be child-free for a hundred ticks or so, which means limited density.  I'm sure there's some solution.
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...<P>It should be pretty fun though.
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