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Author Topic: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH  (Read 17631 times)

jetex1911

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2011, 04:28:26 pm »

Is the game sort of like HELLmoo, just without all of the goons and the pee and the killing of orphans?
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beorn080

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2011, 04:34:57 pm »

Yes, it is similar but different. Things like HellMOOs autoattack don't exist, and it is significantly less newbie friendly, though in a passive manner. It is very hard/impossible to figure out some of the wordings and tricks to survive, and you will die repeatedly once you reach a certain point in the newbie job chain. However, the people are FAR friendlier on here overall compared to the people on Hell, and it is unlikely it will ever have a large goon contingent.

Kame, if I write up a series of additional rooms for the tutorial, who would I see about getting them added to it? And is there an organized way to submit additional help files?
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

Kameleon

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2011, 04:39:06 pm »

PM them to me here, or PM me for an email address, or Google doc it up and pm me for an email address to share it to, etc.

I'm a builder, and as such am able to effect a lot of physical changes - from typos through to new rooms for the tutorial area(s).  I'm more than happy for the assistance, and promise to make it high priority to enact those changes if approved.

Same goes for help file updates.  You'll likely get more traction on getting them added by sending them my way right now, as opposed to bug reporting them on the game server itself.

Once you've been playing long enough and have a feel for the game, community, mechanics, etc - you can submit your own application to be a builder and work on stuff yourself.  That requires a show of commitment to the game obviously, ontop of a solid understanding of how most everything works.

Also, I can't promise as to the Goon contingent, but I can promise that they'll be well behaved if they exist at all.  I'm a looooooong time goon myself, and have seen them at their best and worst (from EVE through to various games they invade for trolling purposes).  There's an identical thread to this in the SA Games forum for recruitment purposes, so some will trickle through.  Heck, it was a goon that suggested I post this thread here :)
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beorn080

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2011, 04:48:55 pm »

Alright. I'll start writing up some additional tutorial rooms for possible addition.
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

jetex1911

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2011, 05:09:23 pm »

However, the people are FAR friendlier on here overall compared to the people on Hell, and it is unlikely it will ever have a large goon contingent.

Oh thank god, because i was thinking of playing this, and after seeing what they did to Ace of Spades... ugh.
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LordBucket

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2011, 06:10:08 pm »

...about two hours into making a custom character, writing up extensive answers to the RP questions...only to discover that apparently the game doesn't allow mages to install cyberware. *sigh*

I had an extensive plan to start out aspected sorcery for defense/healing, firearms for offense, and then gradually cyber out to become a decker/rigger.

Doesn't look like that's an option. I don't really want to play a mage so I don't mind the essence loss. I just wanted to have the option of casting a couple spells to surprise people. But since I went aspected instead of full mage, I don't really want to change the character concept to be a mage.

Meh. Probably have to start over.

nenjin

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2011, 06:18:47 pm »

Quote
I had an extensive plan to start out aspected sorcery for defense/healing, firearms for offense, and then gradually cyber out to become a decker/rigger.

Yeah, that's basically asking to be all things in one character. Shadowrun doesn't roll like that, despite how the video games have portrayed it.

Spellcasting and cyberware are largely incompatible, as a point of canon and the rules. Character creation in PnP Shadowrun has always been gnarly, and the essence vs. cyberware distinction is buried pretty far down in CC. You hit on the one 'canon' thing that does have an impact on game play.

In standard 3rd Ed (or is the Wiz Kid's version 4th? I don't even remember) you can get around that somewhat with Bioware. But you do pretty much have to pick one of two paths: cyberware or magic-capable, at the start of character creation. You can achieve both but the trade offs are traditionally huge. You end up being mediocre in both and good at neither. To me effective new Shadowrun characters are about specialization. Only long running, long surviving characters amass the karma necessary to be truly diverse. And that's by design.

But not on the magic vs. cyberware front, it's just a truism that they're in opposition. And for magic in general, it benefits a lot from being a focus of a character. It costs so much to have any spell casting ability that, if you're going to use any magic, you might as well commit to being a mage. Physical adepts ride the middle road between mage and something else the best, but they still can't include cyberware. There's a reason you can only start as a spellcaster instead of becoming one later, and why it takes a dominant share your character creation points to get the ability. It's a path you commit to.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 06:28:05 pm by nenjin »
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Kameleon

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2011, 06:24:24 pm »

Technically SR3 rules allow for casters and adepts to take cyberware, at the cost of reducing their magic rating by 1 point for each point of essence lost (rounded up, so even 0.01 lost rounds up to 1.0).

Historically it's been avoided on the MUD, as as you guys noticed - it was feared that it would get mages and shamans an edge over other archetypes.  But due to the decreased magic rating, it's been discussed again recently - with potential that eventually mages and shamans (and perhaps adepts, though reducing adept power-points would be difficult in MUD mechanics) would be able to install cyberware.

In tabletop, where your character is likely lucky to earn 20 karma over his lifespan - this nerfs co-mingled awakened/cyber right quick.  In a MUD environment where we're talking about high-level characters with karma in the 200-300+ range, it's a different story.  A mage would technically, under revised mechanics, be able to spend a buttload of karma initiating 3-5 times, then burn those magic rating points in trade for cyber.  The effort and time involved to accomplish this, not to mention the karma cost, is roughly on par with dropping all that karma into skills/stats/spell-foci for roughly the same  results.  Making it a bit of a wash long term.  This also brings them up to parity with high end street sams, instead of being ahead of.  300+ karma in stats and skills, and millions of nuyen in best-of-the-line cyber can make for one twinked cybered character.

That said, if you want cyberware now - don't roll a caster.  It's a long ways out yet, if ever.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 06:31:29 pm by Kameleon »
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beorn080

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2011, 06:29:42 pm »

Full on mages and shamans don't NEED cyberware. All their spells basically do the same things as cyberware, better, and for free once you purchase them. Plus conjuration acts as a very nice meat shield. Not sure how aspected works comparatively.

Also, I don't think its that mages CAN'T install cyberware, it's just that its a REALLY bad idea for them, since essence determines the magic stat, and the magic stat determines how powerful a mage can be. Honestly, just go one way or the other. I've rolled up a Gator Shaman, and I am fairly secure in my power.
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

LordBucket

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2011, 06:31:06 pm »

I've only played first edition shadowrun, and back then it was just a 1 to 1 essence loss = magic loss. Spellcasting with a 2 or 3 magic attribute wasn't ideal, but it was functional, being able to see astrally was useful, etc. And since you could always add cyberware later, but you could never become awakened without starting that way, it made sense to keep all my bases covered until I had a good feel for how this particular MUD implemented things.

So since apparently I need to reroll, is there a convenient way to do that that doesn't involve deleting the character completely and retyping all my answers to the RP questions, and so forth? If I permadie, is all that retained? While we're at it, since magic+cyberware isn't an option, what other surprises are in store for me? Is rigging usefully implemented in the game, or is it something you can technically do but never really serves any particular purpose?

nenjin

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2011, 06:31:58 pm »

Quote
Technically SR3 rules allow for casters and adepts to take cyberware, at the cost of reducing their magic rating by 1 point for each point of essence lost (rounded up, so even 0.01 lost rounds up to 1.0).

And that's a huge, huge penalty you pay to mix and match, which I thought kept to the spirit of the game and the rules. If you're making an even trade off, it really begs the question why not always take magic at character creation? Firearms, melee skills and cyberware always things you can acquire later in game.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Kameleon

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2011, 06:32:30 pm »

Delete and re-do, unfortunately.  Or find a way to make that character that you've already invested so much time into, work? :)

It's a harsh mistress at times.
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Kameleon

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2011, 08:04:43 pm »

LordBucket, to answer your further question.  You are right, Rigging is not 'fully implemented' in game yet, and has been on the to-do list for years.  It all technically works, but with no actual purpose to it.  What little can be done with custom devices, needs a high level of GM intervention to create the objects manually for you.
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Rabek Jeris

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2011, 08:25:47 pm »

I checked it out, and a number of things bothered me to the point where I deleted quickly.

First, the newbie area states in /blinking/ words (blinking is bad form in MUDs to begin with) that mages /cannot/ do cyberware. I didn't test it myself, but to my knowledge Shadowrun allows mages to use cyberware, at a decrease to their essence/magic. It's not wise, but it's allowed.

Combat will tell you that you 'have no actions' if you try to spam attacks. It will not tell you when you can attack again. This makes combat very awkward.

The spelling and grammar. My gods, the spelling and grammar. I lost count of how many typos I saw in the newbie zone alone. The newbie zone is where you make your best impressions, for goodness sake. The very first NPC I found in the game proper ignored capitalization in the first half of his 'say', and started it up again in the second half. There isn't even any consistency.

I also didn't like that some 'vital' NPCs are protected against attacks and spells by impossible TNs, so you can't even try to hurt them. I know the reasons for it, but it's a pet peeve of mine.

I know this comes off as offensive, but it isn't entirely my goal. There might be an awesome game under all that, but I can't get past the fact that it looks like your builders have the typing skills of a twelve year old kid. The game needs professionalism.
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beorn080

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Re: Deckeon : A Shadowrun 3rd Edition MUD/MUSH
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2011, 08:37:31 pm »

The wait time in the status bar tells you how long it takes to act again, but there is no countdown, so you can lose time compared to NPCs unless you spam, which I'm sure isn't appreciated. It is a clunky system, but it can work. At least, I have it working, but then again I run with an army of ablative trees and trash to protect me.
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.
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