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[Lectorog]

I have multiple things I'd like some help with; I'll try to section them out. I'm trying to make something, so I'll start with the basics, to see if it's possible.
Given the category and nature, both answers and discussion will be appreciated. Feel free to not read the entire post, and just reply to part of it, if you want.

1: Basic Water

Does 1 bucket of water = 1/7 of water? If not, what are the values?

Is 7/7 a direct 7x multiplication of 1/7 ?  2/7 is 1/3 of 6/7 ?

Water evaporates at 2/7 and less, but not at 3/7 and more, correct?

You can set pressure plates to trigger when a certain depth of water is above them, can you not? The wiki isn't clear about that.


2: Water Movement

If you have a steady level of water (for example, 3/7) it will not move by itself.

If there is one tile with more (ex 4/7) that quantity will move around.

Are these statements correct?


3: The Cycling Repeater
I will be working off of the assumption that everything above is correct; if it's not, I'll revise my plans.

A certain one-tile wide, looping path (probably a square) will be covered in pressure plates; these activate at 4/7 water, are inactive/reset at 3/7.
The path will be filled, via pond designation, to an even 3/7 throughout. Alternatively, a (less wide) container above the path will be filled to the correct amount - 3/7 for each tile - and then dumped in. This will help prevent evaporation. Note that the container would not have 3/7 on a same number of tiles, but rather will be 3 water units full per tile of the path.
The path will be evenly full of 3/7 water. One unit of water is then added. 4/7 of water will cycle through the path, forced to go in the round - cycling - due to the water movement "laws," rather than moving back and forth randomly.
Each pressure plate will have been linked to a spike on a similar path somewhere else. Thus, as the water cycles, so will the spikes.


4: What I need to know from this

1) Will this work at all? Please tell me in which ways I'm wrong, and if there are any alternative "fixes."
2) If I use the dumping method, will the water be transferred reliably, or will there be some loss/odd displacement?
3) The water path: What is to be done about corners? Will the water move straight and orthogonally around corners, or will I have to cover the corners, making the water move diagonally? Realizing this would probably result in odd movement, as water is affected by diagonal movement.
4) Time: How would this affect the spikes? How quickly will they raise and lower? With the pressure plates as they are, will I have to make two "moving tiles?" One for raising and one for lowering.


Lastly, just a thanks for everyone who will actually help me, pop by to offer suggestions, and other posters. If any clarification is needed, just ask. I know exactly what I want to do, just not fully how to do it, or how to best explain it.

[Urist Imiknorris]

1: Basic Water

Does 1 bucket of water = 1/7 of water? Yes.

Is 7/7 a direct 7x multiplication of 1/7 ?  2/7 is 1/3 of 6/7 ? Yes.

Water evaporates at 1/7, but not at 2/7 and more, correct?

You can set pressure plates to trigger when a certain depth of water is above them, can you not? The wiki isn't clear about that. Yes.


2: Water Movement

If you have a steady level of water (for example, 3/7) it will not move by itself.

If there is one tile with more (ex 4/7) that quantity will move around.

Are these statements correct? Yes x2 combo.


3: The Cycling Repeater
I will be working off of the assumption that everything above is correct; if it's not, I'll revise my plans.

A certain one-tile wide, looping path (probably a square) will be covered in pressure plates; these activate at 4/7 water, are inactive/reset at 3/7.
The path will be filled, via pond designation, to an even 3/7 throughout. Alternatively, a (less wide) container above the path will be filled to the correct amount - 3/7 for each tile - and then dumped in. This will help prevent evaporation. Note that the container would not have 3/7 on a same number of tiles, but rather will be 3 water units full per tile of the path.
The path will be evenly full of 3/7 water. One unit of water is then added. 4/7 of water will cycle through the path, forced to go in the round - cycling - due to the water movement "laws," rather than moving back and forth randomly.
Each pressure plate will have been linked to a spike on a similar path somewhere else. Thus, as the water cycles, so will the spikes.


4: What I need to know from this

1) Will this work at all? Please tell me in which ways I'm wrong, and if there are any alternative "fixes." See bottom.
2) If I use the dumping method, will the water be transferred reliably, or will there be some loss/odd displacement? You might lose a single 1/7, it'll probably be fine.
3) The water path: What is to be done about corners? Will the water move straight and orthogonally around corners, or will I have to cover the corners, making the water move diagonally? Realizing this would probably result in odd movement, as water is affected by diagonal movement. Water can and will move diagonally.
4) Time: How would this affect the spikes? How quickly will they raise and lower? With the pressure plates as they are, will I have to make two "moving tiles?" One for raising and one for lowering. The spikes' delay is less than that of the pressure plate's reset. The spikes will stay up for ≈100 frames before retracting.

If you're trying to make the spikes extend and retract in a certain pattern, this will not work - the 4/7 tile will move randomly and not in a set path. This does however mean that the spikes will shoot up in whatever pattern the water moves. If you created a large cistern filled to 3/7 exactly, with pressure plates on every tile set to activate on 4/7 water, covered an area in your entrance the same shape as the cistern with spike traps linked to the equivalent plate, and introduced a small amount of extra water (say, 1/10 of the cistern at 4/7), the 4/7 tiles will all move around randomly and make for a wonderful luck-based entrance. Start up a betting pool on how many goblins survive it.

[Lectorog]

Hmm... Thanks for the advice/answers!

First of all, diagonals: Does water move just fine through diagonals? No differently than orthoganally?

Next; Are you saying there's no way to make a set path for spike activation to occur along, or is this just not the right way to do it?

Alternative idea: Instead of a path, would a 1-wide, long, straight path work? With the water rebounding from end to end; unless water doesn't work like that.

[Urist Imiknorris]

a) The only difference when water is forced to move diagonally is that you won't have to deal with water pressure.

b) This isn't the right way to do it. You could set up a cyclic repeater (like this one) with each plate linked to a spike, or you could do it with pressure plates and a dwarf on patrol, among other methods.

c) The water won't bounce from end to end, it moves randomly. However, either of your methods will usually result in a lot of spikes shooting up.

[Lectorog]

OK, thanks. I was trying to mimic the "trap" (it took a lot of searching to find they were called that) from the Legend of Zelda games. I guess I'll have to go with the n-step cyclic repeater. That's no fun - I usually try to avoid using powered things. Too much work.

And you confirmed that only one activation will be necessary - the spikes retract on their own after the activating water leaves?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Yep. What happens with the repeater I linked is (approximately) this:

Frame 0: Water lands on plate, plate sends "on" signal to spike
Frame 40: Spike extends
Frame 100: Previous spike's plate resets, water leaves plate.
Frame 200: Plate resets, sends "off" signal to spike
Frame 240: Spike retracts.

Every hundred frames, one spike extends and another retracts, such that there are always two extended.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Yep. What happens with the repeater I linked is (approximately) this:

Frame 0: Water lands on plate, plate sends "on" signal to spike
Frame 40: Spike extends
Frame 100: Previous spike's plate resets, water leaves plate.
Frame 200: Plate resets, sends "off" signal to spike
Frame 240: Spike retracts.

Every hundred frames, one spike extends and another retracts, such that there are always two extended.

Slight necro because what you want is possible, and without power.

The secret is to not use water-- use a goblin.

Design a loop system using pressure plates and hatches such that the goblin always has only one exit from the loop, directly in front of him, an exit that closes when or before he reaches it.  Fill the pathway with pressure plates linked to your spikes.  You can easily make a wave pattern of spike thrusts using this design.

Here is an example loop:

Code: [Select]

 
h           h
 p.........p
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 .          .
 p.........p
h           h

. is ground tile, either walled in or raised up; p is pressure plate triggered by any size of creature; h is hatch over channel (not over ramped channel) that provides a diagonal exit from loop to map edge via some route when the hatch is closed.

Each pressure plate is linked to every hatch to except for the next one (clockwise or counterclockwise, it doesn't matter).  When a goblin reaches a pressure plate, the hatch in front closes off and the goblin re-evaluates path to the next pressure plate.  This is designed for a goblin moving at a certain speed (11 ticks per movement) but it has a little bit of fudge factor.  A plan could be designed for goblins moving at other rates as well, and additional hatches and pressure plates could be added to ensure proper pathing for faster or slower goblins.  The hallways can be filled with pressure plates linked to upright spikes; the corner pressure plates can be linked as well.  That's 400 tiles of spikes capable of moving in a wave over ~4400 ticks.