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Author Topic: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer  (Read 9968 times)

MagmaMcFry

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2011, 07:51:58 am »

I think I have an appliance for the repeater:
Make the repeater twice as fast, so the door will close and open in this order almost every step (it won't work with every step, because after the first-built pressure plate sends a CLOSE signal, there is no OPEN signal to open the door again.
So the door seems to be open almost all the time, effectively not obstructing pathfinding at all, because a creature having a path will only stop following it if the tile immediately in front of it is inaccessible when it attempts to step into it. Now have the doors in following situation:

Code: [Select]
M#M#M#M#M
#D#D#D#D#
>#>#>#>#>
#########
M is pressurized magma, > are down stairs with no up stairs under them, leading only to a magma pump-back, and D are the doors (preferably magma-safe).
If no creature is standing in the doors, then magma will instantly be destroyed by the door, but if a goblin stands inside a door, it will get incinerated as it walks through.

Caution: This will only work if the internal DF simulation order is pathfinding -> water flow -> building actions -> pathfinding -> ..., not the other way around, because then the goblins will refuse to walk through the magma lying in the doors in the moment directly between it flowing in and getting smashed.
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dr_random

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2011, 08:45:14 am »

I think I have an appliance for the repeater:
Make the repeater twice as fast, so the door will close and open in this order almost every step (it won't work with every step, because after the first-built pressure plate sends a CLOSE signal, there is no OPEN signal to open the door again.
So the door seems to be open almost all the time, effectively not obstructing pathfinding at all, because a creature having a path will only stop following it if the tile immediately in front of it is inaccessible when it attempts to step into it. Now have the doors in following situation:

Code: [Select]
M#M#M#M#M
#D#D#D#D#
>#>#>#>#>
#########
M is pressurized magma, > are down stairs with no up stairs under them, leading only to a magma pump-back, and D are the doors (preferably magma-safe).
If no creature is standing in the doors, then magma will instantly be destroyed by the door, but if a goblin stands inside a door, it will get incinerated as it walks through.

Caution: This will only work if the internal DF simulation order is pathfinding -> water flow -> building actions -> pathfinding -> ..., not the other way around, because then the goblins will refuse to walk through the magma lying in the doors in the moment directly between it flowing in and getting smashed.

I don't get that. Isn't the pressurized magma behind the door already preventing the pathing? So if the goblin does not path beyond the door because of the hazmat, then it'll never step into the door to be neatly incinerated.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2011, 02:35:53 pm »

Well no, the entrance is to the left, and the exit is to the right.
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Powder Miner

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2011, 03:51:23 pm »

Would the repeater work for bridges? Could one make either a one tile long row of vanishing, or a lightspeed smasher?
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2011, 03:52:07 pm »

Well, no.
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Powder Miner

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2011, 03:53:03 pm »

That sucks >.>
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2011, 03:55:15 pm »

Not my fault.
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Powder Miner

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2011, 03:56:07 pm »

I know, It would have been really awesome though XD
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Sasha

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2011, 03:39:02 pm »

Would this work?

1.  Make two one-space wide corridors, 20-30 spaces long, as the entrance to your fort.  Place these entrances a distance apart -- perhaps 20 steps.
2.  Put a pile of marksdorfs in a pillbox between the entrances.
3.  Line the entrances with doors.
4.  Begin with every door in one corridor open and every door in the other corridor closed, and hook ALL the doors to this repeater.

The doors would not even have to swing every tick; once every 20 ticks would be fast enough.  When the doors are ALL closed on the left and ALL open on the right, the invaders will head to the open corridor since it will be faster to travel.  As they approach that corridor every door switches positions, and the invaders turn around and shuffle towards the other corridor.  They march Space Invaders style back and forth in front of our marksdorfs who win all the kewpie dolls by perforating lungs at their leisure with no possibility of the oncoming horde ever leaving their firing range.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2011, 08:53:06 am »

I think that that would work under certain circumstances: First, a normal 100-step repeater is totally enough for this design, second, they always have to realize that their path just closed in front of them. You could actually just use a row of pressure plates in front of two entrances with sufficient distance that always closes a series of doors right behind them. To avoid building destroyers, just build a row of jammed-open doors in a wide (semi)circle around the entrances, to stop them from just kicking the important doors in. They will wait in front of "their" doors until they close before bashing them (unless they feel compelled to kill some nearby dwarves instead), and if the doors don't close, you can just pick them off. To take goblins off their [FLIER] mounts, just poke them with menacing spikes until they dodge off or die.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2011, 10:01:44 am »

I feel like maybe building this computer in-game could be my life's work...

It's truly awesome, but pointless, FPS-killing, possibly dangerous, and requiring of decades of in-game time and months and months of real-life time.

In other words, it's the dwarfiest gadget ever proposed.

I salute you, sir.
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Lormax

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2011, 01:08:26 pm »

I've read this whole thread, and still don't the 'point' to this.  What can it actually DO?
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Eddren

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2011, 02:10:40 pm »

You mean, DESPITE separate Creatures by the Tick they spawned on, cause Goblins to go insane, and create interesting Adventurer traps?

I think we have an Elf amongst us.
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Ah, my dwarven heart beats with fierce pride for this.  I can't take it anymore!  I have to go do something profound.

MagmaMcFry

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Re: Lightspeed Repeater and Lightspeed Computer
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2011, 02:29:15 pm »

I've read this whole thread, and still don't the 'point' to this.  What can it actually DO?


Well, the design described in the OP is a repeater that toggles a door every single tick.

The design described here is proof to the following:
If, in a parallel DF universe where pressure plates don't delay, you can build a logic device that satisfies these conditions (copied from there):
  • The computer may only use two dimensions, one horizontal and one vertical (let's say Y and Z). The computer must use exactly one layer in the X dimension.
  • Pressure plates all trigger on 7/7 water, but not on 0/7 [...].
  • Water is not allowed to fall, water must move downwards by teleport pipes.
  • All energy powering the computer must pass through a single gear assembly (the "power assembly") that is not used for anything else, and pre-toggled to be disengaged.
  • First the screw pumps, then the gears and axles, then the pressure plates must be built. The gears and axles must be built so that from every screw pump, every possible simple (not self-intersecting) power path to the power assembly must be built in exactly this path's order.
  • Every screw pump must be powered from the top.
  • Information must be stored by having 7/7 tiles of water in some of many places, all called 'info tiles'. Pressure plates may be built only on info tiles. The information must be persistent, that is, if you shut off the power gear, the water must stay where it is.
  • Every info tile must have an open channel into it from above. The info tile and the tile above have to be unable to transport power into the X dimension, Further, the tile above may not be an info tile itself or contain water.
Then you can, in regular DF, build a logic device that does what the parallel universe device can do, in the same in-game time!

The real-DF design will require about 400 times the number of screw pumps the parallel-DF design does, but who cares.


Also, I just thought of a way better lightspeed repeater design:

Side view:


Construction:
Expand this design vertically to have 100 cyan tiles. This time, build the object of togglance before everything else.
Build the pump stacks from bottom to top and a pressure plate on every cyan tile.
Connect every pressure plate to your buzzing object and put water into the yellow tile. To start/stop, connect/deconnect power. That's all!

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