Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

Author Topic: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)  (Read 8687 times)

Rowanas

  • Bay Watcher
  • I must be going senile.
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2011, 07:15:45 pm »

I've always had a problem with immortals. Either, they're all of standard human age, and die in... accidents... before realising their full potential, or they're really old, and still only possess skills equivalent to an average aged human, in which case they're morons, incapable of learning at any decent speed, and doomed to be wiped out by any species capable of learning within a shorter lifespan.
Logged
I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Askot Bokbondeler

  • Bay Watcher
  • please line up orderly
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2011, 09:09:44 pm »

actually, i allways mod elves to have 400 percent skill rates, it's makes up for the wooden weapons

King DZA

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ruler of all things ruleable
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2011, 03:04:54 pm »

I don't think the goblins are naturally evil at all.

From what i can tell, none of the races really like each other, they just kind of tolerate each other. For one reason or another, goblins are less generally tolerated by the other races. And because of their alienation, they act out of spite toward the other races. That, or they truly are the "good guys", attempting to stop the horrors and atrocities of the other races, which would be a good reason for them to be hated by everyone.

As for lifespans, i think the idea of them being some sort of balance keepers within the world is possible. Not really born, but created. Or mayhap they simply have some sort special technique to prolong their life past it's natural length, much like how the Nordic gods ate special apples to divert aging.

DG

  • Bay Watcher
  • Pull the Lever
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2011, 04:40:59 am »

I think that goblins (and any other immortals) should be given some version of regeneration. You're not going to last centuries accumulating damage from day to day living unless you can completely and consistently replace your cells. Or you'd have every goblin past a certain age beign a decrepit mess. An immortal decrepit mess sure, but still a mess.

Goblins wouldn't manage with only two sets of teeth like a human. They'd need a shark-like deal where teeth are constantly replaced, especially since they have the [BONECARN] tag. I think it would be cool if they could also regrow severed limbs over time (or even gouged-out eyes). Nothing like D&D troll regeneration, of course, but maybe similar to a skinks tail. So perhaps if you chopped off a goblins arm and it survived, and a year later you return with a box of chocolates and an apology, you'd find the goblin had almost regrown the lost limb. They'd need to be immune to cancer but I'm not sure that cancer will ever exist in DF (yeah, brave call) so that could be a moot point.

Or leave the concept of cancer and mutation in so that we can have goblins starting off as noble beingss who slowly and inevitably degenerate into monsters that plague the other races because of the curse of their immortality. So every world that has goblins is a ticking time-bomb. In the early years everything's peaceful but the more years that pass the closer the goblins edge toward the tipping point of becoming ravening maniacs. Who never lose their teeth.
Logged

Vester

  • Bay Watcher
  • [T_WORD:AWE-INSPIRING:bloonk]
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2011, 07:56:08 am »

Or leave the concept of cancer and mutation in so that we can have goblins starting off as noble beingss who slowly and inevitably degenerate into monsters that plague the other races because of the curse of their immortality. So every world that has goblins is a ticking time-bomb. In the early years everything's peaceful but the more years that pass the closer the goblins edge toward the tipping point of becoming ravening maniacs. Who never lose their teeth.

Throw in the ability to tree-whisper and you've got DF elves.

...

On a side note after I started reading Chad Oliver I ended up giving my Elves iron weapons (but no armor) and made them start kidnapping children. It made up for them being really annoying in worldgen and getting murdered all the time.

From what i can tell, none of the races really like each other, they just kind of tolerate each other. For one reason or another, goblins are less generally tolerated by the other races. And because of their alienation, they act out of spite toward the other races.

Of course, it does become kind of a chicken-and-egg situation. Are they spiteful and warlike because they're cultural pariahs, or are they cultural pariahs because they're spiteful and warlike?
Logged
Quote
"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Dae

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2011, 10:44:11 pm »

If you're ready to accept them being either as a starting point, they could be both just because they were both to start with. And then each attribute sustained the other.
Logged

o_O[WTFace]

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2011, 11:14:38 pm »

Well they do steal babies.  I'm sure the other races would be more tolerant and accepting if they just traded for them like civilized people  :P 
Logged
...likes Dwarf Fortresses for their terrifying features...

King DZA

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ruler of all things ruleable
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2011, 11:28:26 pm »

Well they do steal babies.  I'm sure the other races would be more tolerant and accepting if they just traded for them like civilized people  :P

That, is fucking brilliant.

We need goblin caravans that sell children from other civs, which you can use as slaves, or simply to assimilate into your own fortress. For an added challenge, make it so that the goblins only sell them to you if your fortress looks like a suitable home for them.

piecewise

  • Bay Watcher
  • [TORTURE_FOR_FUN]
    • View Profile
    • Stuff
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2011, 08:27:55 pm »

Lets see...

Option 1: Warhammer 40k Orcs style
Basically, they were created by some race or individual in the distant past, probably for war, and have just bred and survived since. It would explain their violent natures and their relatively advanced technology despite being quite simple in mind. And i they are created beings, then why not create them to be immortal? It would mean being able to keep them mothballed indefinitely, waiting for the next fight. More then likely elves might have been much the same, which would explain their strange opinions regarding material usage, and their habit of eating the dead.

Option 2: Biological immortality
Maybe the inherent violence of goblin society acted as a sort of evolutionary factor. Imagine, if you will, that there are a few groups of goblins, some more long lived then others. Those which live longer are able to reproduce more, in turn allowing their society to survive the continuous wars they are famous for better then those with less children. As time goes on, the shorter lived of the species die out, and the process happens again, pushing their lifetimes even further. Eventually a group bearing biological immortality shows up, and they literally outlive all the other groups because they can produce at distressingly exponential rates.

Option 3: Biological immortality via abnormal physiology.
While I've cut open my fair share of greenskins, I can't say I know a lot about what all the pulsing, bleedy bits do. For all I know it's just a collection of symbiotic fish walking around in an algae skin. The collective is immortal because the individual fish die and reproduce inside the skin.

Azrael001

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2011, 02:14:33 pm »

Death by senescence seems to be linked to a high oxygen atmosphere, and sexual reproduction (based on this one book I read that was making wild guesses). Oxygen is poisonous to most things because it is so reactive. If the goblins have a mechanism that can easily break N2 up, they can use that for breathing instead maybe? Perhaps mixing the damaging oxygen radicals with the free nitrogen can protect them from many of oxygen's damaging effects, and have them naturally excrete useful industrial chemicals.
Logged

Askot Bokbondeler

  • Bay Watcher
  • please line up orderly
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2011, 06:57:58 pm »

pfff, don't come here with that pseudoscience, real scientists have proven it before: it's magic

Azrael001

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2011, 12:54:13 pm »

Sure, but in my version goblins naturally produce ingredients for powerful explosives, fertilizer and rocket fuel.
Logged

i2amroy

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats, ruling the world one dwarf at a time
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2011, 02:14:18 am »

I like to view it this way:

Near the end of the early days of the world, the gods and goddesses created the four races. Humans were created from water, leading to their quick lives and ability to adapt, elves from wood therefore granting them the ability to live forever through regeneration (however in order to regenerate elves need a little bit more specialized nutrients then can be found in plump helmets), dwarves from stone, giving them a solid though limited lifespan (unfortunately this also gives them their unbalanced natures, as if a rock is flawed it will always be so and can never be fixed save through destruction and reincarnation) and goblins through fire. Now an interesting fact about fire is that though it may only last for a short time on its own, with every thing that a fire manages to consume it's own brightness and strength increases, and goblins function much in the same way as this. With every thing that they manage to destroy their own strength increases, granting them a type of immortality in that as long as they continue to destroy they will continue to exist. After all why else would they murder each other for no reason but for in order to perpetuate their own existence?

Now some of you might be thinking "That's all fine and dandy, but what about the kobolds?" Well kobolds were an unintended effect. As the gods and goddesses created the four races, one of the small, mud-dwelling creatures that they had created before managed to pass unnoticed into the midst of the gods and goddesses during their creation of the races. As a result it managed to siphon off a portion of the creation energies and vastly increase its size, strength, and intelligence. However because its mind was not designed to hold this energy, its language resulted in an unintelligible mess and its mind still proved more beast than being. It did focus on one fact well though, and that was that it must steal to find more of this power. For after all, if the small bit it managed to steal granted it this much advancement, what would happen should it obtain them all?
Logged
Quote from: PTTG
It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

DG

  • Bay Watcher
  • Pull the Lever
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2011, 08:45:02 am »

If you're going down the elemental path why not make kobolds air? They can move through locked doors and trapped hallways like the wind. And umm...Air is ever changeable and chaotic so the kobolds never settle on a uniform/consistent language. And wind pushes things from one place to the other, which kobolds replicate by stealing things.
Logged

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: Goblin Immortality (Fluff Discussion)
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2011, 03:10:38 pm »

Once, goblins were kind beings, living only to further the good of the world. They were outmatched by the immortal elves, the advanced dwarves, and the numerous humans. Only the unintelligent kobolds were weak enough to be receptive to the goblins, and they were too scattered and ununited to help in any way.
Then, some being came to them, and offered them gifts. They would live in constant pain, but would never die and would be able to create obsidian towers and iron tools. This was judged as an acceptable sacrifice to the goblins, however, who mostly grew used to the pain.

The ones who made the pact, that is.

The next generation of goblins was twisted more by the Pact, in mind and body. Instead of fair, pale skin, these Pact-Twisted infants were marked by green flesh and worse deformities. These mutants, called Abominations, misinterpreted "The Greater Good" as "Good for Goblins" and resented their elders for for the curse brought on them, and lacked any true morals. The old generation was killed, and the new generation took up the mantle. They began to loot and burn the surrounding lands, and with their dark powers and iron weapons, they expanded their power. The Abominations did not expect their downfall: Their parents.
The slain generation had been left out on the ground to rot and be eaten by birds, and their spirits were not put to rest. These spirits finally chose to possess the bodies of their unborn grandchildren. This generation resembled a blend of the Ancient Goblins and the Abominations, and were more or less identical to modern goblins. While they kept some of their parents' ways of looting and kidnapping, these New Goblins had--and have--the altruistic mindset that governed the Ancient Goblins. While they don't have the power of the Abominations, the New Goblins do not age. The Abominations mostly died, in battle at the hands of the New Goblins, but others fled deeper than any race had ever gone. They bred with the demons of that foul place, and some of these humanoid half-demons escaped back to the surface to govern their New Goblin cousins or even humans, who were the least affected by the wars the Abominations waged. Now, as dwarves dig deeper and deeper, they risk finding the dark secrets of the goblins' immortality and the death that they will bring to them...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5