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[Leatra]

Hell yeah for the neat looking UI!

I'm curious about how are you going to handle horseback fightining. When you are not riding anything, maybe there should be an indicator to show how many moves the guys on horses can make until you can make one. Being able to magically know the speed of every horse doesn't make it such a nice idea though. Maybe it could be a little vague like "5-9" depending on... one of your skills. Hell, it could work for all creatures and not just horsemen. It could work like a skill to not only predict their speed but their strengths and weaknesses as well... I got a little carried away.

[Ivefan]

so the archers were protected (from cavalry, at least) and the archers were still able to fire.

Not really. The cavalry would get a few losses but the pike density is too thin to actually protect the archers. better with a stake wall in that case, or putting the archers behind the pikes.
And thinking of that. what about mixed weapons units? First row is sword/shortspear and shield with the second and third row is pikemen and the rest behind is pikemen ready to fill in the holes but while they wait they can throw javelins.
Right, so this will need lots of training but it's damn efficient against anything other than archers

[Leatra]

Maybe there should be a way to create custom formations. There was a feature like this in a game called Theocracy but I don't know how this could be applied to a roguelike.

First, game shows you a list of soldiers you command. You click the ones you want to add into your group and assign a commander. Then, you drag and drop until you have the formation you want. It looks like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That one above is a one man army!

I don't think this idea can be applied to a roguelike though

[Mephansteras]

Game is starting to look really good!

[varsovie]

so the archers were protected (from cavalry, at least) and the archers were still able to fire.

Not really. The cavalry would get a few losses but the pike density is too thin to actually protect the archers. better with a stake wall in that case, or putting the archers behind the pikes.
And thinking of that. what about mixed weapons units? First row is sword/shortspear and shield with the second and third row is pikemen and the rest behind is pikemen ready to fill in the holes but while they wait they can throw javelins.
Right, so this will need lots of training but it's damn efficient against anything other than archers

In this case the wall might be dense enough to frighten the horses (they don't charge in walls!), and there should be at least three consecutive rows of pikes. And anyway, when the enemy is at 15m, do you think archers would stay in front? It look like a tercio formation, and I like it. http://forum.milua.org/archive/TactiqueUk.htm

[Rowanas]

Hmm. During the early renaissance, arquebusiers were put in blocks on the wings of pike formations, rather than being mixed in. Two handed swords would be mixed into these arquebus blocks to prevent opposing pike formations from mashing the edges, and forcing enemy cavalry to try and avoid the pikes while still hitting the guns. (Like a simplified version of the Prolangado in varsovie's link)

Looking back at ancient pike formations, the classic phalanx generally didn't combine arms with archers because 1: Combined arms weren't really a "thing" until the likes of Clausewitz. 2: Phalanxes had to be homogenous in order for any man in any rank to step forward to take the place of the man in front, and archers would've stuffed that right up.

I can't think of any army that used anything like what Ivefan describes.

Also, I know that this is waaaaaay off topic, but.. artillery? Please say yes. I've always been of the "over there, over kill" mindset, in which massed artillery plays a huge part. You've mentioned siege engines, but not artillery specifically, so I'm hoping for a definitive answer.

[Ivefan]

I can't think of any army that used anything like what Ivefan describes.

Because it's not really feasonable. The required coordination, dicipline, regiment cohersion and weapons training would turn because of cost and time.
Romans, diciplined and rather well protected units, and they used pilums(javelins at times. But they were professional soldiers and required upkeep.
Longbow men? Got replaced by arbalests due to the demands of archery training even though longbows are 'better'.
Pikemens. Rather unwieldy and clumsy but great in a defensive stance.

[Nighthawk]

artillery

YES.

Rows upon rows of catapults and ballistae, lined up...
"FIRE!"
*THUNKTHUNKWHOOSHTHUNKWHOOSH*
*Smashing sounds and screams*

And epic battle is not complete without artillery.

[Leatra]

If I'm not misaken, we will be able to use corpses for catapults as well. We discussed this some pages ago.

[Delta Foxtrot]

Will these corpse-a-pults lower the enemy morale/spread diseases? Or are they just more macabre cannon balls.

[Leatra]

Will these corpse-a-pults lower the enemy morale/spread diseases?

Yup, both.

These quotes are from the dev

There will be siege weapons (one is in the very early stages of testing, but it won't see the first alpha by any means), you will be able to hurl rocks, fireballs, corpses, etc. Also live captured enemies, if you're feeling particularly evil. But not carps, dwarves, people, dwarf-carps, carp-people, or anything else. Sorry guys

... as for siege weapons, I think you will have a choice of transporting them built (so you need, say, two horses per catapult, etc) or you construct them loose (in which case just people can transport them) but then you have to set them up. I think developments on that idea could get a good risk/reward thing going...

what about screaminŽ magical skulls for the catapults for extra mind-fuck?

Definitely. Consider them on the list.

How strange almost everyone is so interested in catapults

You might want to wait for the dev to talk about corpses as a way to reduce morale and spread diseases. I'm not sure with that one.

[Robosaur]

live animals on the catatapaults?

[Ahra]

live animals on the catatapaults?

dragons?
actually...
'What is it? Dragons?'

"HaHa, no little greenhorn, Dragons fly, its Wyverns that have to be catapu... AW FRACK"

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Hell yeah for the neat looking UI!

I'm curious about how are you going to handle horseback fightining. When you are not riding anything, maybe there should be an indicator to show how many moves the guys on horses can make until you can make one. Being able to magically know the speed of every horse doesn't make it such a nice idea though. Maybe it could be a little vague like "5-9" depending on... one of your skills. Hell, it could work for all creatures and not just horsemen. It could work like a skill to not only predict their speed but their strengths and weaknesses as well... I got a little carried away.

Thanks! I've been wondering similar, about how you judge the speed of horses (and, for that matter, what the speed of horses actually is). Again, it depends on how much depth I want in this area - I'm thinking about having different 'qualities' of horse in terms of breeds, etc, and the more you know about riding, the more you can identify a breed, and thus the player will know Breed A is only twice as fast, but Breed X is fast and tough, etc. There are skills centered around your knowledge of creatures, and the higher those skills are, a) the more you can identify and b) the more skillful you are at dealing damage to their weak points - again, that'll appear in the skills list in the near future! : )

so the archers were protected (from cavalry, at least) and the archers were still able to fire.

Not really. The cavalry would get a few losses but the pike density is too thin to actually protect the archers. better with a stake wall in that case, or putting the archers behind the pikes.
And thinking of that. what about mixed weapons units? First row is sword/shortspear and shield with the second and third row is pikemen and the rest behind is pikemen ready to fill in the holes but while they wait they can throw javelins.
Right, so this will need lots of training but it's damn efficient against anything other than archers

A 'squad editor' is in the very early stages - which is to say, you might be able to make squads out of archers and pikemen, or all swordsmen, or heavy weapons soldiers backed up by Cyclopes, etc. You select how you want the squad to deploy itself, and then command it like a squad of just one unit. This is proving to be a complex (but workable, I stress) component of the game which isn't going to make the first release. For the time being, squads consist of one kind of unit, but I 100% intend to change that in the future and allow you to custom-build squads from the ground up.

Game is starting to look really good!

Cheers! 

In this case the wall might be dense enough to frighten the horses (they don't charge in walls!), and there should be at least three consecutive rows of pikes. And anyway, when the enemy is at 15m, do you think archers would stay in front?

Again, in the very early stages of issuing what I'm calling standing orders - as in, you can command a squad to move to Location X, and that's a normal command. But when you create a squad, you can give it commands that it will always follow - protect its leader at all cost, protect the archers, let the Cyclops lead, etc, and those standing orders remain whatever other commands they get. I think the interplay of the two could be really interesting.

Also, I know that this is waaaaaay off topic, but.. artillery? Please say yes. I've always been of the "over there, over kill" mindset, in which massed artillery plays a huge part. You've mentioned siege engines, but not artillery specifically, so I'm hoping for a definitive answer.

Yes! Well... some kind of siege engine. Specifics, and mechanics, not yet decided. I'll probably put in ballistas first, as (in URR, at least) they will not be powerful enough to damage buildings beyond flimsy walls, and thus will be the easiest to code

You might want to wait for the dev to talk about corpses as a way to reduce morale and spread diseases. I'm not sure with that one.

Corpses are great. They will knock down morale and spread diseases - a very basic implementation of one exists at the moment, wherein any AI creature coming along a corpse of its own species and faction will take a morale hit (severity determined by lots of other factors), even more so if the dead creature in question was known personally. By contrast, if Creature X hates Creature Y and finds a corpse of creature Y, Creature X will be cheered up a little.

live animals on the catatapaults?

dragons?
actually...
'What is it? Dragons?'

"HaHa, no little greenhorn, Dragons fly, its Wyverns that have to be catapu... AW FRACK"

I have no particular objection to catapulting Wyverns.

[Leatra]

Hell yeah for the neat looking UI!

I'm curious about how are you going to handle horseback fightining. When you are not riding anything, maybe there should be an indicator to show how many moves the guys on horses can make until you can make one. Being able to magically know the speed of every horse doesn't make it such a nice idea though. Maybe it could be a little vague like "5-9" depending on... one of your skills. Hell, it could work for all creatures and not just horsemen. It could work like a skill to not only predict their speed but their strengths and weaknesses as well... I got a little carried away.

Thanks! I've been wondering similar, about how you judge the speed of horses (and, for that matter, what the speed of horses actually is). Again, it depends on how much depth I want in this area - I'm thinking about having different 'qualities' of horse in terms of breeds, etc, and the more you know about riding, the more you can identify a breed, and thus the player will know Breed A is only twice as fast, but Breed X is fast and tough, etc. There are skills centered around your knowledge of creatures, and the higher those skills are, a) the more you can identify and b) the more skillful you are at dealing damage to their weak points - again, that'll appear in the skills list in the near future! : )

Different breeds of horses and a skill that allows the player's character to know about breeds. That sounds awesome! I'm looking forward to the skill list.

I have no particular objection to catapulting Wyverns.

You really know how to attract the Bay12 community