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Author Topic: Ultima Ratio Regum (0.9 released Dec 31 2021!)  (Read 508989 times)

Leatra

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #465 on: March 27, 2012, 07:24:49 am »

I kinda liked it myself. First 3 skills is same with every weapon and last to 2 skills changes according to the weapon type. Like, dual wielding for short weapons.

And we already concluded that magic was going to have different schools.
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mendonca

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #466 on: March 27, 2012, 08:27:09 am »

If the computer and the 'dice-roll' algorithms can handle these skills in interesting and unique ways (which it sounds like it will), all these different skills could be absolutely wonderful.

My concern would be the computer / player interface, and whether the human brain is keyed up to really be able to understand and care enough about all this esoterica, which it may not if not presented carefully.

It is really up to the game designer to implement these methods in a useful and elegant way. I hope you can do it, because I think the system sounds really interesting.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #467 on: March 27, 2012, 05:42:02 pm »

That's quite an extensive skill list.

Also, that border is really cool.

Thanks! Glad you like it - it's in for all the initial menu options.

That's list is...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Will it be possible to murder leaders without anyone noticing you are the killer if you have a high infiltration and/or stealth skill?

"ALL HAIL THE REGICIDE KING!"

EDIT: Hey, what about a mapping skill of some sorts? Being able to record the areas you visit and seeing the lands known to you without running around or zooming in and out. If you don't have a high mapping skill your character will "forget" those areas and it will be blank in the world map. Maybe you can buy maps from shopkeepers or ask around for surroundings like in DF.

Hahaha, thank you! And I agree, perks no longer really fit with this. I hope so - it wouldn't be unlike killing anybody else, in that some could notice, but if nobody is aware, then it's a mystery. Again, maybe in the long, LONG term, I could add a crime system for NPCs to try and deduce criminals, but that is literally years in the future. That's an interesting one - currently the 3x3 around your location is revealed each time you move on the world map, but I could certainly be persuaded to change that, or have a forgetting function. Definitely intending to have maps that can be purchased.

What is the purpose of tearing every weapon skill and every magic skill into 3-5 pieces? Is there really a need for separate aim and force skills, especially since there's already a strength stat and a dexterity stat kicking around to ensure strong creatures hit hard and deft creatures hit accurately?

I'ma have to back sundial up on this. 5 seems... a little excessive. I could understand 2, perhaps even 3 if there's a good argument for it, but 5 seems like it's a little...too comprehensive. Balance, sir. Balance.

I kinda liked it myself. First 3 skills is same with every weapon and last to 2 skills changes according to the weapon type. Like, dual wielding for short weapons.

And we already concluded that magic was going to have different schools.

I see your point, sundial. Maybe I should remove the stats! I realize that wasn't the point you were making, but now you say it, maybe the stats are redundant with this many skills. Hmm. Actually, yeah - stats are redundant here, I think. I shall likely remove them and have only skills. Thanks for the (I think unintentional!) pushing me towards getting rid of the pointless stats :)

I think there is a need for separate skills for much the reason Leatra said - each serves a different function, can be tailored specifically to the foes you're fighting, and then each weapon type gets two unique aspects to it too. Obviously the first two you want for any weapon type, the third is for fighting armored foes, then the fourth/fifth are 'specialist' ones depending on your needs. Indeed, one way to look at it would be that - the first two you always want, the third you sometimes want, and the fourth/fifth depend on your play style, enemies, objectives, etc.

If the computer and the 'dice-roll' algorithms can handle these skills in interesting and unique ways (which it sounds like it will), all these different skills could be absolutely wonderful.

My concern would be the computer / player interface, and whether the human brain is keyed up to really be able to understand and care enough about all this esoterica, which it may not if not presented carefully.

It is really up to the game designer to implement these methods in a useful and elegant way. I hope you can do it, because I think the system sounds really interesting.

Thanks! I've already got the computer in combat using the correct skills, but I think an important facet of this many skills being developed well is to give the computer intelligent control over which skills they choose to train up, recruit into an army, etc.

I think that while there is a ton, there aren't a lot of skills that will apply to any given situation. A lot of the skills apply to one particular facet, and while some are important 'general' skills, there aren't that many of those. I'd be interested to hear what you mean by presenting it carefully - do you mean in terms of this page, or in terms of how they are deployed in game, or something else?
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Rowanas

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #468 on: March 27, 2012, 06:06:11 pm »

Hmm. Considering that we're unlikely to bother using more than 2 different weapon skills, it might work out alright.

I notice that only short weapons have a dual wielding skill. Will light weapons be the only ones we can use in each hand, or will we be able to try more exotic combinations, with only the "off-hand" light weapon benefitting from the dual-wield skill bonus? Obviously, either way, you can use a two handed weapon in each hand, unless you're big enough for the weapon to count as one handed (dual-pike-wielding giants, go!).
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Mephansteras

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #469 on: March 27, 2012, 06:15:20 pm »

Depending on how strong you are, it's certainly possible to wield regular one-handed weapons in each hand. It's just that most people are weaker in their off hand, don't train much with it, and have much lower coordination with that hand which makes it much more feasible to use either a light weapon or a shield there. A very few people can actually use ether hand effectively, but for most people they are much worse off if they try to use a heavy weapon in their off hand.

Granted, if your main hand has been injured switching hands better than doing nothing, but you're much more likely to get killed using your off hand.

Personally, I think it'd be better to simply give a penalty for any weapon wielded with your off hand with skills that can help offset it. Have the penalty be relative to the weight of the weapon, and you have a more logical system with a similar result. Except that if the player really wants a troop of dual axe wielding maniacs he can specifically train them to be at least reasonably decent at it. It may be a bad idea, but it could be fun!

Not sure how ambidexterity would work. It's a pretty rare trait. Maybe if people could have 'Talents' that give them a natural boost to certain skills, it could be one of them? Talents like that could be neat in general. I certainly know people who are good with certain weapons with very little training, even though they're bad at most others, so natural talent is certainly a reasonable thing to have.

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Edmus

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #470 on: March 28, 2012, 12:23:16 am »

That skill list is epic.
Had a thought which is a little off topic though; how will death and saving work?
I mean to say that if you spend hours of work getting some minor goons on your side it would be annoying if that were undone in seconds and be unrecoverable. Will there be an auto saving type-thing or instant unforgiving death?
I guess it comes down to pacing, will it be lightning quick or a slow build up?
Thanks.
(Sorry if this already came up but a quick search said it didn't)
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Dutchling

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #471 on: March 28, 2012, 11:46:11 am »

These are some questions I thought of about the game long term goals. My apologies if they already have been answered earlier.

If you die will you play as your successor of the group/civ you were leading?
Will you be able to get a spouse and children (not necessarily in that order)? (I don't want a sex mini-game but it is relevant to the first question.)
Are there other (randomly generated) people in the world who do the same as you? (greatly advancing in power instead of starting as a bandit and dying as a bandit.)
How is religion handled in-game and can you play a part in it? (e.g. being a false messiah)
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Dutchling

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #472 on: March 28, 2012, 05:11:31 pm »

(e.g. being a false messiah)
I can imagine B12 users using this to (if possible) get worshippers to believe that being permanantly drunk is the only way to heaven or what have you.
I said a false messiah.
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Ivefan

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #473 on: March 28, 2012, 08:30:46 pm »

yeah, false messiah. claim you were sent by their god then convince evryone who follows that religion that drunkeness is a state of peace. or something.
I do believe he is implying that "being permanantly drunk is the only way to heaven or what have you." is the true way and thus a true messiah.
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Rowanas

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #474 on: March 30, 2012, 02:02:30 am »

...a rabbit would do nothing to a human...

Ae you kidding? If someone threw a rabbit at you, it would probably cave your chest in. Rabbits are bigger and heavier than you think. Fluffy wamblers are deadly for a reason!
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #475 on: March 30, 2012, 06:06:47 pm »

Hmm. Considering that we're unlikely to bother using more than 2 different weapon skills, it might work out alright.

I notice that only short weapons have a dual wielding skill. Will light weapons be the only ones we can use in each hand, or will we be able to try more exotic combinations, with only the "off-hand" light weapon benefitting from the dual-wield skill bonus? Obviously, either way, you can use a two handed weapon in each hand, unless you're big enough for the weapon to count as one handed (dual-pike-wielding giants, go!).

Some weapons are one-handed, but most are two-handed. You can wield two sabres, if you want, but you won't be very good with them! Only short weapons get the two-handed bonus. You've also preempted something very accurately; large/strong creatures will intend be able to wield two-handed weapons in one hand.

Personally, I think it'd be better to simply give a penalty for any weapon wielded with your off hand with skills that can help offset it. Have the penalty be relative to the weight of the weapon, and you have a more logical system with a similar result. Except that if the player really wants a troop of dual axe wielding maniacs he can specifically train them to be at least reasonably decent at it. It may be a bad idea, but it could be fun!

Not sure how ambidexterity would work. It's a pretty rare trait. Maybe if people could have 'Talents' that give them a natural boost to certain skills, it could be one of them? Talents like that could be neat in general. I certainly know people who are good with certain weapons with very little training, even though they're bad at most others, so natural talent is certainly a reasonable thing to have.

I originally had left/right-handedness, but it turned out to be FAR more effort than it was ever going to be worth in gameplay terms. From now on, both limbs are of equal value/dexterity/skill, and the only things that affect them will be injury. You will be able to train to use larger weapons in each hand, I think (simply by raising their accuracy skills, etc) but it's short weapons that get the bit dual-wielding bonus. I considered a Talent system, and they will almost certainly not exist, though that particular kind is negated by removing chirality.

That skill list is epic.
Had a thought which is a little off topic though; how will death and saving work?
I mean to say that if you spend hours of work getting some minor goons on your side it would be annoying if that were undone in seconds and be unrecoverable. Will there be an auto saving type-thing or instant unforgiving death?
I guess it comes down to pacing, will it be lightning quick or a slow build up?
Thanks.
(Sorry if this already came up but a quick search said it didn't)

Thanks! Each character gets one life, but I intend to add 'legacy' optoins whereby you can continue as your top general, your closest ally, partner, child, whatever. Probably slow :). For the time being, death is permanent, but I do intend to let you play on as a related character. Also, you will be able to start a new game as a new character in that same word, affected by the actions of your first character.

Next one has lots of questions, so I've bolded my replies:

wubblebubblegubble*faints*

are you trying to make a game more complex than DF?

Yes! Well... no, but complex in different ways.

also, will certain weapons have multiple uses? (e.g. using a halberd for stabby AND slashy)

Yes, most weapons will have multiple functions, and most be used in any context, but how effective they are is the question...

and will certain weapons have certain effects like causing more damage to an opponent with armour than another weapon would? (e.g. a dagger would be useless against chainmail, but a hammer would almost go 100% through it)

Yes, classes of weapons have different dis/advantages re: armor, flesh, bone, and various other things. More details soon!

also, could we please go beyond the normal seige machines of (normally) ballistae, catapults and sometimes battering rams?
I want to see maybe some kind of suicide unit that'll charge at walls and blow themselves up (be it in a magical or gunpowder based explosion), ladders to climb up said walls, maybe even chained beasts (chained dragon seige weapons, anyone?)

I like the suicide unit idea, and I think the chained beasts one is a fantastic idea. Consider it added to the list.

and, finally, will there be natural disasters, and if so, will the arichecture of the areas prone to these natural disasters be different? (e.g. in Japan, walls were required to withstand earthquakes, but their architecture made them climable, so they built them as death traps on the inside, rather than being made to keep things out as much as possible)

One day when it wouldn't just be feature-bloat, yes, I'd like natural disasters, but I'm not sure how much gameplay effect they'd have. Probably not things of that sort, simply a disposition away from settling in a certain area, I expect. But that's far from fixed.

ok, ok, THIS is the final one. will a falling object (e.g. giant) landing on a unit damage them, and will creatures be able to throw smaller ones, potentially causing damage to other creatures, and if so, will both of them be based on mass of the falling and fallen-upon (for example, a giant landing on a human will squish him, a rabbit would do nothing to a human, and a giant landing on another giant would be the same as a human landing on a human) and will fall height effect said damage done up to a point (after falling X amount of cubes, the giant wouldn't do more damage than if it fell X+5 cubes, due to reaching terminal velocity)

Yes, a creature landing on another does damage; yes, big creatures can already throw smaller ones, and I've had my spine broken by a Titan throwing me into a tree; it is based on mass, generally, and rarely other factors like the material the creature is made from. And yes, damage scales to a certain point :).

if that last one was added, it could lead to intresting traps, such as knocking boulders off edges or knocking people off of cliffs.

if any of these questions have been asked, then I'm ignorant/forgetful and missed/forgot it.

NINJAEDIT: thought of another thing: could you get crutches for if you get your leg chopped off, and if you had a mage that was able to do so, could you have the limb grown back, or some kind of controllable prosthetic limb? (I'd love a solid steel moveable arm, punches from that'd be knockout blows)

I think replaceable limbs are going to be either prosthetic, or magical, but these are in the early stages so far.

These are some questions I thought of about the game long term goals. My apologies if they already have been answered earlier.

If you die will you play as your successor of the group/civ you were leading?
Will you be able to get a spouse and children (not necessarily in that order)? (I don't want a sex mini-game but it is relevant to the first question.)
Are there other (randomly generated) people in the world who do the same as you? (greatly advancing in power instead of starting as a bandit and dying as a bandit.)
How is religion handled in-game and can you play a part in it? (e.g. being a false messiah)

Yes, if you want to. Yes, I *think* so, but I'm not sure. Absolutely; my eventual hope is to give a large number of NPCs the ability to no be tied down to a specific place and choose a life of adventure. Religion is based around a semi-random pantheon, but is still being worked out. It will certainly not be in the first alpha! I'm not sure how religious hierarchies will work re: the player and other NPCs, but that's quite a neat idea...

...a rabbit would do nothing to a human...

Ae you kidding? If someone threw a rabbit at you, it would probably cave your chest in. Rabbits are bigger and heavier than you think. Fluffy wamblers are deadly for a reason!

Yup.

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Leatra

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #476 on: April 02, 2012, 04:37:32 pm »

perhaps make sentient animals chained up actually become friendly to someone who releases them, or the civ that releases them
This sounds good. Infiltrate an enemy fort and free some beasts and watch the chaos as you hide in some corner? !!FUN!!
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varsovie

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #477 on: April 03, 2012, 01:29:11 am »

Religion is based around a semi-random pantheon, but is still being worked out. It will certainly not be in the first alpha! I'm not sure how religious hierarchies will work re: the player and other NPCs, but that's quite a neat idea...

Will gods have an effect on the world (bless, divine powers, wraths, needs...) or will they only be different for the sack of having different names.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #478 on: April 03, 2012, 02:38:55 am »

Rabbits kill more humans then sharks.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' in the making...
« Reply #479 on: April 06, 2012, 06:54:43 pm »

right. so I contributed to possibly an awesome feature that will kill many people as they chain dragons, only to have them breathe fire on them.

epic.

also, another thought on chained beasts, maybe they could be released via them struggling, or the enemy loosening them, or them just eroding. and perhaps make sentient animals chained up actually become friendly to someone who releases them, or the civ that releases them, provided they didn't chain them up in the first place.

Also, for that rabbit thingy, I was think about dropping from 2 meters above you. a rabbit coming down to earth at the same velocity as a comet would certainly be incredibly damaging to a human, as well as depositing a ready-made meal and a huge fuck-off crater.

I hope so. Dragons will obviously need muzzling, I think, then you'll have to send ahead some poor soldier to get the muzzle off... I like all those ideas re: chained animals. As with everything, that'll  need a lot of thought about the particular mechanics. And yes, that would be rabbit-induced devastation.

This sounds good. Infiltrate an enemy fort and free some beasts and watch the chaos as you hide in some corner? !!FUN!!

Definitely this!

Will gods have an effect on the world (bless, divine powers, wraths, needs...) or will they only be different for the sack of having different names.

Depends on what you mean by an effect on the world. They will be randomized according to name, power, traits, shrines, sacred creatures, and a bunch of other things. Again, gods are a long-term goal, though you may be able to find an abandoned shrine or two in the first alpha...

Rabbits kill more humans then sharks.

My mind is BLOWN.
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