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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 598317 times)

Korbac

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #960 on: October 27, 2012, 04:29:59 pm »

I would kind of like a system where you play multiple characters in the same universe. When you're not playing a character, they act as NPC's based on their skills, and possibly how the player played them (e.g. violently / diplomatically / sneakily.)

This way you could sort of do an AAR of the perfect evil empire - by setting it and it's subordinates up yourself, and then spawning a new character to take them down. :D
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Rowanas

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #961 on: October 27, 2012, 05:11:27 pm »

Woo! Getting a new computer soon, and then I won't have to worry about URR not workngi any more! Shoopdawoop!
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #962 on: October 29, 2012, 05:29:19 pm »

If we're going to have multiple saved characters, are we going to have to generate multiple worlds, like in DF? Because you can only control one Fortress/Adventurer at a time, since time is constantly passing in said world.

Are you going for the same thing, or are you going to just make each save a "parallel universe" of the same world?

It would be nice for characters to be able to claim relics of long-lost warlords (which you played AS, in the world's past), but it would also be nice to make multiple characters at the same time.

What are you planning?
I would kind of like a system where you play multiple characters in the same universe. When you're not playing a character, they act as NPC's based on their skills, and possibly how the player played them (e.g. violently / diplomatically / sneakily.)

This way you could sort of do an AAR of the perfect evil empire - by setting it and it's subordinates up yourself, and then spawning a new character to take them down. :D

Yes, indeed, you can generate and save up to ten worlds, and worlds are simply stored as "World1", "World2" etc files, so you can exchange them easily with people. However, you can only have one character in each, because I can see SO many potential exploits from allowing multiple characters at once. You can of course copy a world before it has a character on it and play parallel universe versions, or when one character dies start another, but only one character, at once, per copy or each world. Of course, you COULD have one character set things up for a later character and then die, but a) I see no way to 'stop' that without being very annoying, and b) I actually see nothing wrong with that - I don't mind a set-up vaguely like Bones files in Nethack, for instance. You'll be able to hunt down your old corpses, but it might not have everything on it it had when it died...

Woo! Getting a new computer soon, and then I won't have to worry about URR not workngi any more! Shoopdawoop!

Awesome! I'm still going to give Linux a shot this time on my flatmate's laptop, so we'll see how that goes...

Meanwhile, a new devblog entry featuring the conclusion of the map debate; developments on the map; future map ideas; progress on 0.2.0; calendars; tombs; time systems; and lots of stuff I've already forgotten about as the entry's too damned long as it stands.

http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/2012/10/29/map-progress-update-and-calendars/
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Nighthawk

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #963 on: October 31, 2012, 02:56:34 pm »

Map looks niiiiiice. I can easily understand everything, and the rivers are much less painful to behold.  :P
It's regrettable to have nobody to stab in the face, but it's to be expected in a game in such an early phase, so that's cool.
Calendars for different cultures would be a nice feature, but possibly annoying. As long as it's clear what season you're in though, I doubt it'll be much issue.

Speaking of which, I'm wondering how the seasons are going to be displayed. You've probably seen comics about how in DF, when it becomes winter, IT BECOMES WINTER. As in, everything freezes on the spot. I'm hoping you have a much more gradual proceedings, and hopefully some nice bright fall colors during the appropriate time.

But I digress. The last point... the turn system! You probably did it in the best possible way (which is, coincidentally, the way most smart roguelike developers choose to do it). Much better than Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, in which the player always moves first, and the only move speeds are 1x, 2x, and 3x.  ::)

One more random question:
BLOOD. I'm not a huge gore fan, but I do like fancy blood effects to show that you're doing damage in battle. Even in roguelikes, it's satisfying to see little red (or green, or pink, or whatever other colors blood could be in a fantasy game) trails and splotches appear after your attacks connect. DF does this when limbs go flying, but other than that, there isn't much. How will you add it into your game, if at all?
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Man of Paper

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #964 on: October 31, 2012, 03:23:24 pm »

I want a red tide after fighting off an invasion force coming from the sea.

Speaking of defending, I don't know if you've discussed this (I seem to say that a lot in here), but what are you doing for defensive strategy? I figure people will gather intel and you'll get ideas about enemy troop movement, maybe some enemy kingdom's motives for future conquests. How will setting up troops prebattle work? I take it you won't randomly encounter a sizeable force (save for ambushes), so will there be time to order troops around when you see them? How about setting up your own ambushes?

Most importantly, will I be able to make a wall of corpses!?
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Leatra

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #965 on: October 31, 2012, 04:49:57 pm »

I really like the color palette of the map. It almost looks like a real map.
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Devling

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #966 on: October 31, 2012, 11:54:21 pm »

I would also like to see bodies being something physical, instead of an item you can stack infinitely on a single tile.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #967 on: November 01, 2012, 07:36:37 am »

Map looks niiiiiice. I can easily understand everything, and the rivers are much less painful to behold.  :P
It's regrettable to have nobody to stab in the face, but it's to be expected in a game in such an early phase, so that's cool.
Calendars for different cultures would be a nice feature, but possibly annoying. As long as it's clear what season you're in though, I doubt it'll be much issue.

Speaking of which, I'm wondering how the seasons are going to be displayed. You've probably seen comics about how in DF, when it becomes winter, IT BECOMES WINTER. As in, everything freezes on the spot. I'm hoping you have a much more gradual proceedings, and hopefully some nice bright fall colors during the appropriate time.

But I digress. The last point... the turn system! You probably did it in the best possible way (which is, coincidentally, the way most smart roguelike developers choose to do it). Much better than Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, in which the player always moves first, and the only move speeds are 1x, 2x, and 3x.  ::)

One more random question:
BLOOD. I'm not a huge gore fan, but I do like fancy blood effects to show that you're doing damage in battle. Even in roguelikes, it's satisfying to see little red (or green, or pink, or whatever other colors blood could be in a fantasy game) trails and splotches appear after your attacks connect. DF does this when limbs go flying, but other than that, there isn't much. How will you add it into your game, if at all?

Thanks! Ha, yes, I too am sad about the lack of face-stabbing, but it's on its way. I know what you mean about calendars - it's not a definite, but just something I might think about (though as you say, also some 'external' method of time-telling?)

At the moment, I am sad to say seasons are indeed instant changes! However, I do intend to make them much more gradual over time. Agreed re: time system; I was going to have a 1x 2x etc system first, but that seems terrible now by comparison! Once I've posted this message the time system is the main thing I'm going to work on today, so let's see how it goes.

BLOOD: I definitely intend to have the ground blood-splattered, limbs will be lost (but won't go 'flying', and neither will foes). I might add little effects for doing damage each turn, but I'm not sure about that yet.

I want a red tide after fighting off an invasion force coming from the sea.

Speaking of defending, I don't know if you've discussed this (I seem to say that a lot in here), but what are you doing for defensive strategy? I figure people will gather intel and you'll get ideas about enemy troop movement, maybe some enemy kingdom's motives for future conquests. How will setting up troops prebattle work? I take it you won't randomly encounter a sizeable force (save for ambushes), so will there be time to order troops around when you see them? How about setting up your own ambushes?

Most importantly, will I be able to make a wall of corpses!?
I would also like to see bodies being something physical, instead of an item you can stack infinitely on a single tile.

That is a wonderful image. Re: defending, yes, I hope so - you should be able to receive and gather infromation from a lot of sources, and similarly if you have a spy in another court, I think it would be nice if you got reports of troop movements (though less clunky than Civ V: G&K). I want to make sure you have time to move your troops around, but at the same time SOME ambushes are needed. Similarly, the AI might be keeping track of your movements, but I'd hope to add ways to keep your movements secret until the last moment.

And... probably. I'm debating how I'm going to have squares 'filling' with items work. I don't want you to have an infinite pile, so tiles will probably have some 'volume' metric.

I really like the color palette of the map. It almost looks like a real map.

Awesome - I'm very happy with how it looks now. As I've said, at some point it'll gain a few tiny extras like marshes, or plateaus etc, but that's pretty much the final look of the terrain.
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Rowanas

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #968 on: November 01, 2012, 08:53:10 am »

I don't know what you have in mind for prebattle setup, but I've got Rome:TW on my mind. Generally, you always get to set up in your little arrangement, and fight like you're supposed to, but sometimes you get ambushed, and end up in a little marching column of fail, with ambushers on either side. I think it'd probably do to have a turn-counter until the fight, and in each pre-battle "turn" you can move one regiment around. Obviously, for the big battles, you'll have dozens, so that you'll pretty much always have enough time to get it perfect. In an ambush situation, the ambushers get lots of turns to set up, while the ambushees(?) might get only a single turn or two to make a couple of desperate adjustments. When two armies with no foreknowledge bump into each other, no-one gets any turns to shuffle, and the fight begins immediately.

This system allows fo much more reactive, flexible armies at small scale, and goes a fair way to representing the difficulty of managing a large force (you can't always get them all in position by the start of the battle). As Sun Tzu said: The same principles govern the many as the few. The difference is in organisation.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Mephansteras

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #969 on: November 01, 2012, 12:47:26 pm »

I really like that idea.
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Devling

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #970 on: November 02, 2012, 12:10:49 am »

Can you go idle for a time?
Like, gathering troops or doing a job for money at months at a time?
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #971 on: November 02, 2012, 09:02:11 pm »

I don't know what you have in mind for prebattle setup, but I've got Rome:TW on my mind. Generally, you always get to set up in your little arrangement, and fight like you're supposed to, but sometimes you get ambushed, and end up in a little marching column of fail, with ambushers on either side. I think it'd probably do to have a turn-counter until the fight, and in each pre-battle "turn" you can move one regiment around. Obviously, for the big battles, you'll have dozens, so that you'll pretty much always have enough time to get it perfect. In an ambush situation, the ambushers get lots of turns to set up, while the ambushees(?) might get only a single turn or two to make a couple of desperate adjustments. When two armies with no foreknowledge bump into each other, no-one gets any turns to shuffle, and the fight begins immediately.

This system allows fo much more reactive, flexible armies at small scale, and goes a fair way to representing the difficulty of managing a large force (you can't always get them all in position by the start of the battle). As Sun Tzu said: The same principles govern the many as the few. The difference is in organisation.
I really like that idea.

I'm not yet sure. I think it's very likely you'll be able to set up where exactly your various units enter (which the AI will obviously also do), but the more 'sudden' the appearance of the foe, the trickier. Maybe the further the distance from which you sight your foe, the more time you get? On the other hand, I don't think I want too long a setup period, but I'm not quite sure how to handle it. I feel like I'm rambling a bit here (it is 2am here!) so a short answer - yes, I think that's a good idea, on both counts. Sudden battles you have little time and your (and their, if both were unexpected) are disorganized; an organized one you gain "control" of the battlefield early and can start  moving your units around before combat starts.

Can you go idle for a time?
Like, gathering troops or doing a job for money at months at a time?

THIS is a major question I'm pondering at the moment. I really don't know. If so, I'd need some kind of food system (say, take x gold/y turns to keep yourself fed in the background) and to think long and hard about it. But as you say, there are things I can foresee that you might "need" to idle for. I've been having a lot of discussions with my flatmates about this too, and I'm still very undecided about a) if you can, and b) how it would work. I know you would have to be in a city/town for the idling to work, but beyond that. What do you think? I think in the end you're going to have to, but I'm not sure how it would work in a game like this...

In the mean time, *very* much a work-in-progress (will finish them off tomorrow), but how does everyone like these MULTI-SQUARE TREES?! This screenshot is at night in taiga, but they even get shaded at different angles depending on the position of the sun in the day time! Additionally, on the left, you can see a glimpse of the date/time system (the time rotates, changes shade, and shows you the time of the day and the ambient light, approximately). So here, it's approaching 8pm.

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coolio678

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #972 on: November 02, 2012, 09:21:26 pm »

Those are some very fancy lookin' trees. I like it.
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Leatra

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #973 on: November 02, 2012, 09:26:57 pm »

Whoa! I wasn't expecting anything bigger than a few trees having 2x2 squares with the same tile. It looks awesome.

I just thought of something. Can we climb on trees and take out the incoming enemy with out bow? :D Forests could make ambushes easier.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - a 'strategy roguelike' (v 0.1.0 finally released)
« Reply #974 on: November 02, 2012, 10:09:13 pm »

Would there be a way to start a brush fire in order to halt/disrupt an enemy advancement through trees?
Of course, there's the chance it'd burn towards you also if there was proper kindling. Maybe if wind is ever a factor that'd change smoke concealment and fire spread (as well as ranged accuracy, but that's a different topic).

And will there be the possibility for prolonged sieges, cutting off cities from supplies and the like, and allowing them to slowly decay from within? That would be one of the times where a waiting mechanic might be nice. Say you choose to specify how many weeks/hours/days to stay in one location, though enemy action would interrupt it.

Throwing out brain thoughts again.
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