Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 125 126 [127] 128 129 ... 222

Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 611005 times)

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1890 on: February 01, 2014, 08:35:07 am »

I’m afraid this week’s update is only a short one, though in keeping with my 2014 goal of weekly updates I decided to post this one anyway. I’ve been mostly busy this week with finishing the first draft of my thesis (now a mere 30k words and editing remaining before the end of February) but have been working on some of the coats of arms which aren’t made of a single large icon, but might put together a number of smaller ones. Here are two examples of the four-icon variation, which are either separated by a cross down the middle, or into four corners of different colours. There is currently a database of thirty different small icons (eight of which you see below), and once I started assigning coats of arms to families it will be impossible for the same icon to be used multiple times in the same playthrough. I’d like to finish up with a database of maybe fifty or so small icons.


Also, as you can see I’ve now added a banner for house mottos! For houses with a shield that has a single large icon (like the ones we saw last week) there will be a number of preset ones that are occasionally used, but generally all coats of arms will generate mottos anew. I’m not sure if I’ll be working on mottos next or on coats of arms that have icons that take up half the shield – like the top half, or the left half, or similar – but either way next week’s update will probably be more on coats of arms. I anticipate either a week or two until all the graphics and mottos for these are generated, so one or two more entries, then I’ll be moving onto generating family trees and traits for families, and then assigning the player one at the start of the game based on what civ they decide to start in. Stay tuned…
Logged

Man of Paper

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1891 on: February 02, 2014, 08:44:38 am »

With the hunter-gatherer and nomadic groups instead of a coat of arms or whatnot how do you feel about tattoos or something of the sort as an identifier? Like anyone of the equivalent to the royal bloodline in a nomadic group would have a sun tattooed on their hand, or a scrotum on their forehead (it's a little-known fact that fraternities are based off of long-forgotten tribes). That'd also call into question concealment of the tattoo as well. Which would be neat if you say, stab some dude a few dozen times, only to find the tattoo of some family you were supposed to be helping on his shoulder. Also, secret societies. I want to go off on a tangent as I usually do, but limited access to intertubes is restricting my ability to go off like I tend to do. Tomorrow, I promise.

Also, Nur-pol made me giggle. You don't want to rub them the wrong way. I wonder if their flag is purple. Additional nipple joke.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1892 on: February 05, 2014, 08:44:28 am »

With the hunter-gatherer and nomadic groups instead of a coat of arms or whatnot how do you feel about tattoos or something of the sort as an identifier? Like anyone of the equivalent to the royal bloodline in a nomadic group would have a sun tattooed on their hand, or a scrotum on their forehead (it's a little-known fact that fraternities are based off of long-forgotten tribes). That'd also call into question concealment of the tattoo as well. Which would be neat if you say, stab some dude a few dozen times, only to find the tattoo of some family you were supposed to be helping on his shoulder. Also, secret societies. I want to go off on a tangent as I usually do, but limited access to intertubes is restricting my ability to go off like I tend to do. Tomorrow, I promise.

Also, Nur-pol made me giggle. You don't want to rub them the wrong way. I wonder if their flag is purple. Additional nipple joke.

HG groups have the flags shown before, but no particular icons for families; Nomadic groups will use the same icons as their flags, though the tattoo idea IS interesting. I'll give it some thought. I love the scrotum-on-forehead idea. Secret societies WILL exist, but are very closely plot-tied - there are currently five cults I've decided on the names, specifics and plot importance of, and I estimate there being maybe nine or ten by the end. NUR-POL! I do see what you mean. I have a system that prevents any obvious swearwords from generating, but it's harder to stop it generating names that just sound daft...

In the mean time I've started work on the smaller horizontal/vertical designs. Also, a few people have asked me recently what the "game" is to be about, since so far I seem to have focused on worldbuilding (though there is a good reason for that). I think I may end up doing a big update on that some time soon...
Logged

FireCrazy

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1893 on: February 05, 2014, 09:11:32 am »

Seems interesting. Downloading now.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1894 on: February 08, 2014, 01:55:50 pm »

Seems interesting. Downloading now.

Much obliged :). Let me know what you think of the early stages. This week's update will be coming tomorrow rather than today, but the weekly update plan will not be defeated by mere "important academic work" or any such nonsense.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1895 on: February 09, 2014, 03:40:47 pm »

Another short entry this week I’m afraid folks – as mentioned last week I’m coming to the end of my doctorate first draft, and that’s taking up pretty much all my time. I’ll be handing in the first draft some time towards the end of this month, so the latter half of February should see coding resume properly. Nevertheless, for this week I thought I’d say a bit about my current thoughts on in-game langauges.

As mentioned in an earlier entry – and as you’ll see in the game – URR contains a bunch of different languages. In the current version of the game the game simply picks a language at random for each ziggurat and then implements them as simply one letter from the translation serving as one letter from the language itself, and since no language mechanics are yet implemented it just auto-translates. However, I’ve been thinking about what kinds of changes I want to make. It’s been proving tricky, however, to think of a language mechanic which is interesting, balanced, and wouldn’t just end up being bothersome. Some examples of the ideas I’ve considered:


- Your language learning level is an incremental %, and that % of words translate.

This was my original idea. You’d maybe acquire language knowledge in small parts by reading books, talking to NPCs or other things, and the higher the % the more words would translate. At first I thought this was a reasonable idea as it would mean even with a small amount of language knowledge you could still potentially make educated guesses. However, this seemed to have a bunch of problems. Firstly there would be a lot of components to learning a language (i.e. a lot of books or NPCs) – it might take a long time to learn a language in-game, and one that is only used for a single ziggurat. Secondly, I realized that it could lead to some very annoying gameplay situations. If you had 98% knowledge, for example, you could reasonably expect to be able to clear a dungeon… but if a single vital word was missing, it would still be impossible without a lot of guess-work, and potentially too much guess work to be still playable. This then raised questions about how common language-information would be, and a couple of other issues too, so this one got quickly ditched.

- You can learn a language in % chunks, say 25% at a time.

The next idea was much the same as the above, but in much more distinct chunks. Perhaps one could only learn a language to 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100%, so at anything below 100 you would know going into a dungeon that you were running a risk. I felt this removed both the problem of how many sources are there for learning languages (as now the answer would just be “not many”) and the risk of you completing almost an entire dungeon and then failing on a final key word (since 98% language knowledge would be impossible), but it just didn’t sit right with me. It still felt like an arbitrary barrier between the player and proceeding with the game’s story – you had to find language books or other sources of information before going anywhere. So…

- You either know the language (via a “dictionary” item), or you don’t.

Under this model language items would be very common – “dictionaries”, for example – but of a reasonably high price. Perhaps some would be very cheap, or the player would start with one if the player chose certain classes… but again, it was just an arbitrary barrier. Once you knew that dungeons would require some level of translation you’d still have to find your way to acquiring a dictionary beforehand, and that still seemed like a barrier to “progressing” with the game.

- A fourth option presents itself…


So, none of these have really worked out. I felt that the languages were both an important part of the world-building process, and could produce some very interesting and unusual gameplay… but I just couldn’t work out how. However, I think I’ve settled upon a good solution. Instead of making languages something the player character learns, I’m instead going to basically turn the languages into ciphers for the player to solve. Although the game is permadeath, I expect each playthrough to last for a length of time more akin to DF adventure mode even for new players, rather than the length of time a new player attempting Nethack is likely to survive before having everything stolen by a nymph and dying to a stray cat. It’s going to have much more of a feeling of developing your character over a longer period of time, and I think this will fit in nicely. Some for early dungeons (such as ziggurats) are going to be very simple, perhaps only substitution ciphers, whilst the languages for the later dungeons will be much more complex ciphers. For the very late dungeons, perhaps they will be sufficiently tricky to solve that it might even require multiple players to work together to decipher the keys… and that, by my standards, would be a great success. Cryptography is a long-standing interest of mine and it’ll be fun to see how I can implement it into the game. I’m still working through the specifics, and this change won’t take place for some time, but that’s the long-term goal for languages. Next week (assuming there’s no more coding progress, which I fear will be the case) I may post a bit about some other longer-term goals, particularly the plot structure of the game, as I’ve had a few people asking about that and it may be useful to take stock of what exactly that’s going to entail.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1896 on: February 11, 2014, 12:02:56 am »

Addendum, based on feedback and my own thoughts - for the "main game", languages will be an optional but useful extra. For the extended/optional game, which will be large (much like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup), deciphering will be crucial! I have some pretty neat ideas for languages, too, and ways to make them very different and very interesting.
Logged

FireCrazy

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1897 on: February 11, 2014, 04:36:45 am »

So, I found some proving grounds, couldn't get in, found a Ziggurat, walked past the traps and died pretty quickly. Came back and tried to figure out what im supposed to do to get past, and only managed to think of throwing a branch at the tripwires, couldn't get past the pressure pads though. And I have no idea how to get up the stairs... yep. By the way, Ascii graphics were awesome. Looking forward to updates, I was trying to find some civilization until i realized there was none.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1898 on: February 12, 2014, 02:28:36 am »

So, I found some proving grounds, couldn't get in, found a Ziggurat, walked past the traps and died pretty quickly. Came back and tried to figure out what im supposed to do to get past, and only managed to think of throwing a branch at the tripwires, couldn't get past the pressure pads though. And I have no idea how to get up the stairs... yep. By the way, Ascii graphics were awesome. Looking forward to updates, I was trying to find some civilization until i realized there was none.

You can use the stones on pressure pads :). Obviously in the future there will be many other ways, but these are just the ones I implemented for the sake of testing the traps. Stairs are the usual > < keys for roguelikes! Glad you like the graphics. The next update I'm working on adds civilizations, religions, noble families, etc - then the release after that will be focused on developing cities for the first time!
Logged

Man of Paper

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1899 on: February 12, 2014, 05:49:55 am »

When you described the current version's method of translation I was like "Oh hey, a simple substitution cipher. That'd be neat if we had to crack the languages like some sort of code..." and then I kept reading, and was pleased. And then I remembered this is the same thread where cryptography was discussed in depth, albeit then it was for issuing orders securely, so I'm pretty confident that you'll be able to do that effectively.

(Fun Fact, also: My primary goal in life for the longest time was to get a job as a cryptographer, so you just keep making this game more and more appealing to me.)
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1900 on: February 13, 2014, 06:16:34 am »

When you described the current version's method of translation I was like "Oh hey, a simple substitution cipher. That'd be neat if we had to crack the languages like some sort of code..." and then I kept reading, and was pleased. And then I remembered this is the same thread where cryptography was discussed in depth, albeit then it was for issuing orders securely, so I'm pretty confident that you'll be able to do that effectively.

(Fun Fact, also: My primary goal in life for the longest time was to get a job as a cryptographer, so you just keep making this game more and more appealing to me.)

Thanks :). I've already been putting down some ideas for how the languages/ciphers are going to differ - they need to be crackable without computer help, but still challenging, but also have enough hints that people aren't just flapping around aimlessly. It'll be an interesting balance to strike but I've had what I think are some very workable ideas. Also, re: job, that is awesome. I am sure the answer will likely be yes, but have you read Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon? That was what got me really interested in crypto a few years ago...
Logged

Man of Paper

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1901 on: February 13, 2014, 07:45:55 am »

I don't know how I've managed to avoid reading Cryptonomicon. This will be rectified.

It is now in my library and will be opened once I finish reading 2312.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1902 on: February 15, 2014, 04:32:35 am »

I don't know how I've managed to avoid reading Cryptonomicon. This will be rectified.

It is now in my library and will be opened once I finish reading 2312.

Eeeeexcellent.
Logged

Ivefan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1903 on: February 15, 2014, 05:01:00 am »

Although it is an interest of yours, I think that most people will just go to URR wiki and spoiler themself rather than sit down and decipher texts.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1904 on: February 15, 2014, 06:55:49 am »

Although it is an interest of yours, I think that most people will just go to URR wiki and spoiler themself rather than sit down and decipher texts.

That is why the ciphers will gen anew each game :). I'm very happy with people working collaboratively to work out HOW to solve the texts, but the actual keys will vary each game. But nevertheless, I don't see that as an issue - some people will always choose wikis, some people (like myself) won't. Nothing one can do about it, and when one day such a wiki exists, I will be hugely flattered anyway by its mere creation, so I wager I won't mind too much.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 125 126 [127] 128 129 ... 222