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Author Topic: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!  (Read 2096 times)

tsuchigumo

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Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« on: December 20, 2011, 11:08:25 am »

I'm a new Dwarf Fortress player, and while I don't have but a month or two's experience under my beard, methinks there's one system that could use an update.

Poisons! It's no fun to farm gnomesblight or any of those other fun toxins when they're so hard to get in your enemies!

I've figured the easiest way is through traps, especially Weapon traps.
Even broader, mabye be able to add plant extract to weapons, at least syndrome-causing ones. That's an easy way to poison your enemy! (Same idea with weapon traps.) Secondly, mabye a new trap you can load with barrels/flasks/bags of whatever gas-forming substance and once activated releases the pent up gases from the booze/extract oil/other inside the trap. I'm not sure what to do about temprature, mabye make the trap need coal and watch as the gas burns everything and poisons them to boot.

Secondly, seige engines. I was thinking about the Ballista, and thought "What if it were automatic?"
I realize this seems out of feeling, but an automatic giant crossbow is acutally feasible (ala Mythbusters.) Three parts and a mechanism, and the ability to link to a lever. Pull lever, however many arrows were loaded fire in rapid succession. Not sure how many it should hold.

Also, not sure what this is. A kind of door trap, that when opened, two sserrated disks swing out from the walls. Like a booby-trapped door.

Lastly, economics. This isn't so much a system than it is products. Why not have different groups of a civilization have different cultures? This one is just an idea,  but if implemented, each culture builds, uses, and values things differently. Like in three different Human colonies, one might sell mostly weapons from all sorts of cultures (from longbows to katanas), one would sell all kinds of animal products, and one would sell semivaluable trinkets (that you could engrave and sell back, or something.)

The first human colony would be militaristic, attempt seiges, and value well crafted weaponry over much else.
The second would be willing to seige but wouldn't unless you piss them off, and value fine and luxurious meals and booze.
The third wouldn't have much of a military, and would value anything well crafted. (I.E., the multiplier for anything well made, engraved, w/e is doubled, average things sell for 0.5)

Of course, that's when everything matches up. Each culture has a favorite export item type, their favorite item, military strength, attitude (how quick to attack, anger, etc.) and other conditions that would guide their actions. And, for extra laughs fun, randomize it. You may end up with constantly angry weak-military chef people.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 11:41:07 am »

-Planned
-Siege engine revamp: Army arc
-Traps revamp= planned
-economics whitin 1-7 non bugfix releases. Supply and demand are in in the next release, but don't affect fortress mode (I think)
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knutor

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2011, 12:00:59 pm »

poisons them

I just visited a record holding safari hunter's menagerie, and he was showing us his trophies.  After it was over he asked me if I had a ring on, and if I would like to hold his super nitro.  An elephant gun, worth more than my car.  I said no thanks, I had no rings on.  I just didn't want that stress.  So on our way out, his wife says, honey, show him the bows. 

He went over and pointed at three hyenas, rather large ones, I thought, far larger than I imagined seeing them on the Nature channel.  Easily 6ft tall standing on their back legs.  I took those with this.  He claimed.  I thought to myself, what the hell!  I'd have used that super nitro, that you asked me to hold.  The shells were as big as my foot.  These bows were all chipped, the arrows had no feathers, and they were the last things I'd hunt in the bush with, against a pack predator.  They weren't even recurves, just a twig and rope, and some sticks.

Yeah, then he showed me the quiver...

It had a little dipping vial attached to it.  He said, this if for the poison, its very lethal, we had to use a mitten to douse the arrows.  The bottom of the quiver was all blackened and hardened from the poison.  If your in it to win, truely win, ya take no risk, ya use poison on every round, every arrow.  All that high tech crap at the sporting goods stores, to kill things, and then you see that thing and a world renowned Safari hunter, showing it off, like it was his prize weapon in his arsenal.  The guy went on to show me a mountain lion he took with a spear.  A wooden Spear! 

That was something to remember.  Yup, I'd like to wield poison in DF, definately.  I'd hope a developer with the name Toady would respect us enough, to add poison in correctly, and make our dwarfs earn its power the 'hard' way, harvesting it from the correct things, leaves, frogs, snakes and such.  Through trial and error.

Sincerely,
Knutor
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 12:04:37 pm »

A lot of these planned, also,

everything mentioned already has many, many threads.

Footkerchief....

coolio678

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 03:30:17 pm »

poisons them

I just visited a record holding safari hunter's menagerie, and he was showing us his trophies.  After it was over he asked me if I had a ring on, and if I would like to hold his super nitro.  An elephant gun, worth more than my car.  I said no thanks, I had no rings on.  I just didn't want that stress.  So on our way out, his wife says, honey, show him the bows. 

He went over and pointed at three hyenas, rather large ones, I thought, far larger than I imagined seeing them on the Nature channel.  Easily 6ft tall standing on their back legs.  I took those with this.  He claimed.  I thought to myself, what the hell!  I'd have used that super nitro, that you asked me to hold.  The shells were as big as my foot.  These bows were all chipped, the arrows had no feathers, and they were the last things I'd hunt in the bush with, against a pack predator.  They weren't even recurves, just a twig and rope, and some sticks.

Yeah, then he showed me the quiver...

It had a little dipping vial attached to it.  He said, this if for the poison, its very lethal, we had to use a mitten to douse the arrows.  The bottom of the quiver was all blackened and hardened from the poison.  If your in it to win, truely win, ya take no risk, ya use poison on every round, every arrow.  All that high tech crap at the sporting goods stores, to kill things, and then you see that thing and a world renowned Safari hunter, showing it off, like it was his prize weapon in his arsenal.  The guy went on to show me a mountain lion he took with a spear.  A wooden Spear! 

That was something to remember.  Yup, I'd like to wield poison in DF, definately.  I'd hope a developer with the name Toady would respect us enough, to add poison in correctly, and make our dwarfs earn its power the 'hard' way, harvesting it from the correct things, leaves, frogs, snakes and such.  Through trial and error.

Sincerely,
Knutor
That's actually a really cool story.
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Neowulf

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 06:27:24 pm »

Wouldn't say no to farmable deadly Nightshade and the ability to extract it to vials for crossbowdwarves to use.
Just have to remember to turn off cooking/brewing for it...
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 06:41:03 pm »

Wouldn't say no to farmable deadly Nightshade and the ability to extract it to vials for crossbowdwarves to use.
Just have to remember to turn off cooking/brewing for it...

Toady's adding syndromes induced by eating, so be careful that you know that's a plump helmet... And not just a death helmet.

knutor

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 07:06:28 pm »

That's actually a really cool story.

@Coolio678,
Thanks!   

@LW,
Knutor shivers at the thought of Death Helmet Men!

@Neowulf,
Could be interesting.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 07:29:59 pm »

@LW,
Knutor shivers at the thought of Death Helmet Men!

I wouldn't. I would send them to the elves, and the elves would eat the corpses...

No more elves.

(Before the elves poison the wine that is D:)

antymattar

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 03:21:56 am »

A lot of these planned, also,

everything mentioned already has many, many threads.

Footkerchief....

But... He didnt come......
 ???

OMGOMGOMGOMGMOGOMGOMGOMG!!! You found out a way to scare the Footkerchief away!(No offense. just a pun)

But really, poison has been suggested WAAAAY back. Go to the VERRY FIRST suggestions and its there.

NobodyPro

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2011, 07:59:48 am »

It's probably good to note that the Suggestions subforum is basically the only place where necro-ing is acceptable provided you contribute to the idea instead of saying: "Cool idea brah!"
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thobal

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2011, 01:47:48 am »

After it was over he asked me if I had a ring on
[italics mine]

What does this mean, a ring?
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knutor

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2011, 09:12:44 pm »

After it was over he asked me if I had a ring on
[italics mine]

What does this mean, a ring?

When a person holds a safari gun costing upwards to 100,000 USD, he mustn't have jewelry on, according to this fella.  Men's wedding rings.  He didn't even offer it to the ladies on the tour to lift.  A ring would scuff the stock, or scratch the etched metal motifs.  Its interesting to see one.  So here is the link to Holland and Holland.  It looks similar to a double barreled shotgun, cept it fires rounds meant to stop an elephant.  The one I saw had not fussy motifs, like which are advertised on their exclusive shoppers guide.

Its interesting to note, when a hunter buys a gun from Holland and Holland, he can take it to be fitted on their hunting grounds, where many many royals visit.  Pg23 of their brochure had that fella's gun in a .700 caliber round.  The double barrel rifle, without all that royal jazzed up crap, like that dragon motif.  Tho that is cool.  His was a field gun, and he used it to down three elephants.  His mantle over his fireplace is ivory, something I will never be able to build, anymore, here in the States.  As the export of real ivory is banned, not the soap.

I doubt many crazy high calibers like that are sold.  Its a really heavy gun to carry, it looked.  I can't see anyone wanting something with that price tag, personally, to take out in the field.  The real field, where slipping and falling is a real possibility. Oddly I found that Holland and Holland intro movie, a lil bit Dwarfy, how bout you?  All that engraved crap...  Those people must be living real dwarfily.

Sincerely,
Knutor
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knutor

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Re: Traps, Seige Engines, Economics!
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2011, 09:20:40 pm »

http://www.hollandandholland.com/

And the round .700 is larger than the largest pictured on this wiki site.  Its bigger than my foot, and prolly yours.  I can tell you quite certainly, that its not worth firing, as a bruise would form on an unpadded shoulder, and with padding accuracy would falter, so its pointless, really.  Its one of those things the rich have tho, as just another of their many status symbols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.