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[Newbunkle]

Hmm, if you have two wood left can you build a wall and a ramp near the caravan, put a sniper up there, and then deconstruct the ramp? If the others get slaughtered then it might be a problem getting him back down, but if you put food and booze up there he might last until some new migrants arrive.

[Kalasen]

I've been experimenting with some more things on a regular fortress. I can't wait the caravan into insanity, because they just pack up and leave. The loyalty cascade is what's killing me here - it seemed like with all my dwarves combined on the job, they might be able to take out both guards. But attacking each other, there's no chance. The sniper post idea is good in theory (I'd have to get lucky with the limited ammo supply, but that happens), but the problem is that the caravan starts running around when they're attacked.

1. Waterskins will allow your one barrel to be used by many dwarves at once. I'd be interested in seeing how a fortress handles that. I expect that once you get over the initial hump of one group of dwarves having 3 booze and the other having 0 booze, it'll work out fine.

2. It's possible to take the caravan's goods peacefully, though without a trade depot they're reluctant to walk further onto the map. This means that you're stuck with whatever's on the first pack animal unless it shifts over to allow the others to spawn, or unless it's carrying goods that allow you to create a depot. Just a note for any players who want to try this but not get stuck with a loyalty cascade.

How do you take the caravan's goods peacefully? I've seen about three pack animals wander in. I tried browsing to some goods in the stocks menu and unforbidding some caravan items, but nobody wandered over to pick it up. I'm going to keep looking up ways to do this. I might just have to use an immigrant axe to cut the two trees on my map, make a depot, and sell enough stuff for a pick.

[Sutremaine]

You need to order the goods dumped as well, since they're part of the pack animal's inventory. Going through the stocks screen should work since I can dump a liaison's clothes this way, but going into the pack animal's inventory and pressing Enter, f, d over a desired item definitely works.

[Kalasen]

@Kogut: You can change color schemes by opening this file, "/Dwarf Fortress/data/init/colors.txt" and changing the RGB values of whatever DF color into the color you want.

@Bread: The wiki has a list of these worldgen examples you can paste into your worldgen file, in the same place as that colors file. Just paste the data in above the rest. You can get really neat things by messing with the world generation parameters. I have an evil swamp world and a volcanic glacier world as well in my worldgen file.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Worldgen_examples

@Sutremaine: The waterskins-as-mini-barrels idea is cool. The only problem is that I had more pressing needs for leather, such as quivers and armor wherever bone doesn't cover. You also get a lot less leather than bone, just one per animal.

ANYWAY, I can't believe Sutremaine's dump idea worked. And it did. I had everything on the camels ordered to be dumped into my garbage pile and then reclaimed. The dwarves busily got to work.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The dwarves are now redistributing everything amongst themselves and getting to work with their new picks and axes. It feels pretty cheaty taking everything for free. But I'm essentially fighting one bug with another - I can't overpower the caravan due to the loyalty cascade bug, so I'm taking it anyway with the dump-the-caravan bug. When the loyalty cascade bug is fixed, I'll be able to overpower them. I'll start a new fortress and a new thread when that happens.

Gentlemen, it is possible to thrive on an itemless, waterless embark. The rest of this thread will now be about the development of the fortress, I suppose. We could do it as a community game now. Anyone want to be dwarfed and to be up for turns? You can request professions and stuff. I'll make a new thread in the community fortress section if that's the case.

[restricted]

If this moves to Community Games I'd like to be dorfed in as a Weaponsmith. Bonus points if he/she likes steel and/or candy. Megaultra bonus points if he/she is missing both legs.

[Lordraymond]

Dworf me in as whichever Dworf is your best hammerer

It's painful AND slow, the true Dworfy way to kill those elf scum

[Kalasen]

Okay, I've got dwarves picked for the both of you. I'll run the now-second year because we just got picks, then pass it to whoever is first in line to want a turn. I've got the community fortress thread up here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96007.0

[Kogut]

IMHO killing caravan from mountainhomes should result in loyalty cascade. Maybe waiting for humans is better idea?

[Kalasen]

IMHO killing caravan from mountainhomes should result in loyalty cascade. Maybe waiting for humans is better idea?

Oh, I'm not saying that a civil war from fighting your own civilization itself is a bug. I'm saying that it is a bug they as soon as a merchant drops, every single dwarf in the fortress, even the bookkeeper who was taking inventory and minding his own business, starts fighting every friendly they see and their cat. Yes, people totally uninvolved in the raid start fighting their own pets. The only people who don't are people who immigrate after the incident.

A simple fix would be to make it so attacking a caravan acts exactly as attacking a berserking dwarf. The dwarves under a players' control are already pretty sociopathic and insane. A more fun and realistic fix would be to make anyone who is ordered to kill a friendly either not go through with it, or to become a rogue faction. So the caravan-raiders would be hostile to the masons back home, but not each other.

The wiki said that only the dwarves will arrive without a depot. I could test in my more functional fort I'm using for testing by going without a depot until late autumn comes again, and see if anyone else shows up by then. Even then, do humans carry picks or axes? I guess you could go ANOTHER year-wrap if you can request picks from them. The liason seems to work, even if the caravan doesn't arrive.

[Hitty40]

The wiki said that only the dwarves will arrive without a depot.

Are you sure you were reading the correct version of the wiki? I've always needed a depot for the Dwarven caravan no matter what.

[Vattic]

Did you trying sending a bowdwarf after the animal rather than the guards? A lucky shot might be needed but the guards would have then killed him and left without the animal and it's goods.

[Sutremaine]

IMHO killing caravan from mountainhomes should result in loyalty cascade. Maybe waiting for humans is better idea?

You might need elves for that. The only non-siege progress trigger in the human entity is trading-based, which I believe means that they won't turn up unless there's trading going on. Elves have population and production-based triggers, so they should turn up as soon as you hit 20 dwarves or whatever wealth counts as PRODUCTION:1.

[Shark]

Guys, voidsoul is now in the community games and stories section, that's why the guy doing it stopped posting here.