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Author Topic: Law: water can not prevent dehydration  (Read 12042 times)

King DZA

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2011, 03:45:30 pm »

Well I drink milk pretty often, and coffee is made with water, so I figure it's close enough.

Flying Dice

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2011, 03:50:14 pm »

Now see I got the impression that the scientists think a whole damn bunch of stuff can prevent dehydration.

Thus water isn't unique.

Actually, yes, it is. Water is the only thing that can reliably and safely lower the level of dehydration in the human body. Everything you consume that lowers dehydration contains water.

Saying that water isn't unique in lowering dehydration because other things with water in them do so also is like saying that eating a pure glucose solution isn't the only way to fuel human metabolism because there are foods which contain glucose.
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palsch

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2011, 03:54:47 pm »

OK, let's try to clear some of this up.

1) This isn't a law. It's a narrow test ruling on a hypothetical proposed wording for a piece of technically wrong health advice, struck down on (appropriately) a hypothetical.

2) The two people who submitted this are also the ones promoting the story, suggesting that was the purpose.

Strangely, the British Soft Drinks Association managed to sum things up rationally;
Quote
The stories in some of the newspapers this morning (18 November) do not quite capture the whole picture regarding the approval of health claims relating to water and hydration.

The European Food Safety Authority has been asked to rule on several ways of wording the statement that drinking water is good for hydration and therefore good for health.  It rejected some wordings on technicalities, but it has supported claims that drinking water is good for normal physical and cognitive functions and normal thermoregulation.  These recommended claims are awaiting formal confirmation from the European Commission.

EFSA recommends that, to benefit from the effects of drinking water, one should consume at least 2 litres of water a day, or 2.5 litres for a man.  Water is the major component of all soft drinks.
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Roboboy33

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2011, 03:58:00 pm »

This is them just being assholes.
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DJ

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2011, 03:59:49 pm »

Saying that water isn't unique in lowering dehydration because other things with water in them do so also is like saying that eating a pure glucose solution isn't the only way to fuel human metabolism because there are foods which contain glucose.
But I thought you can use fatty acids in place of glucose. No such replacement exists for water.
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Sensei

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2011, 04:21:46 pm »

It's like saying, this food cures hunger.
To be fair, I think that if someone put a label on their food product that says "Cures hunger!" or "Prevents hunger!" nobody would have problem with it. In fact they would probably just get a chuckle out of it.
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Phmcw

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2011, 05:18:03 pm »

I think some of you don't get the problem. Europe has ruled that our advertising should be sane, and that health claim had to be verified.
Therefore, companies that sell bottled water asked if they could use "prevent dehydration" as a selling point.
The agency charged with that task proceeded to check if that fact was truly a selling point of bottled water.

For a reason unknown, they found out that, in fact, no. For one it doesn't prevent dehydration, but probably more to the point, because a glass of orange juice or a cup of tea does the exact same job. Which mean that if you buy a bottle of Evian or whatever specifically because you fear dehydration (and it may be a concern) , then you have been scammed.

This ruling is therefore sound and a sign that there may be agencies of the EU that are still working well.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 06:47:27 pm by Phmcw »
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jasonwill2

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2011, 06:31:00 pm »

This is them just being assholes.

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Jackrabbit

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2011, 06:52:10 pm »

I really think that unless this took up a lot of time and money that could have been spent on something important, which it doesn't seem like it did, it's not worth getting worked up about.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2011, 07:32:04 pm »

Saying that water isn't unique in lowering dehydration because other things with water in them do so also is like saying that eating a pure glucose solution isn't the only way to fuel human metabolism because there are foods which contain glucose.
But I thought you can use fatty acids in place of glucose. No such replacement exists for water.

Fair enough. Hm.


...is like saying that death isn't the only way to get rid of life, because people can die of things other than natural causes. That probably has a flaw in it as well.
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scriver

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2011, 07:56:45 pm »

If they mean dehydration as the process of losing water from your body, then drinking water - or anything - sure won't prevent it. It'll refill yout water reserves, sure, but your body will continue to use up/loose water (dehydrate) all the same.

It's like saying filling up your car with new gas prevents gas being used up by the combustion process.
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Derekristow

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2011, 08:07:47 pm »

Now see I got the impression that the scientists think a whole damn bunch of stuff can prevent dehydration.

Thus water isn't unique.

Actually, yes, it is. Water is the only thing that can reliably and safely lower the level of dehydration in the human body. Everything you consume that lowers dehydration contains water.

Saying that water isn't unique in lowering dehydration because other things with water in them do so also is like saying that eating a pure glucose solution isn't the only way to fuel human metabolism because there are foods which contain glucose.
I think he was referring specifically to bottled water, rather than the chemical itself.  I see the problem being in either the semantics of the word 'prevent', or the implication that bottled water and bottled water alone can cure dehydration.

But I thought you can use fatty acids in place of glucose. No such replacement exists for water.
The body uses different fuel sources for different reasons.  Glucose is generally needed for short periods of intense activity, so you might be able to live without it, but it would be difficult.  Not to mention any chemicals the body may create from it.
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Bauglir

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2011, 12:48:08 am »

Your body can convert other energy sources into glucose. So it's actually a really weird example. You don't actually need to eat any, but it is required for many metabolic processes. Vitamins might be a better example, since your body can't manufacture them (by definition).

More importantly, it's likely to be a reasonable ruling in the context it was made. It sounds like the equivalent of somebody saying, "Hitler was right that a vegetarian diet can be healthy" and everybody starts shouting that I said "Hitler was right". If the connotation of the phrasing of the claim in some language suggests something that isn't true, it was right to deny that use, in the same way it'd be right to deny that Vitamin A prevents scurvy.

Also, just a few comments. Spoilered for being tangents.

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GlyphGryph

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2011, 01:26:13 am »

Quote
Vitamins might be a better example, since your body can't manufacture them (by definition).

Hmm... that doesn't seem right. What about vitamin D?
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Bauglir

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Re: Law: water can not prevent dehydration
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2011, 01:30:33 am »

>___> The definition is more guidelines than actual rules.

Okay really what I should say is that your body can't manufacture them in sufficient quantities no matter how much you provide in the way of raw materials.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
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