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Author Topic: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-36 Decisions, Decisions  (Read 656544 times)

Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1635 on: May 10, 2013, 06:38:50 am »

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However it has only three vitality. We can kill it with two MP if we have to long before it gets dangerously close. And I'm not just saying "wander aimlessly in the forest". I have given a very specific course of action in one of my previous posts. In short it says carefully capture and study the creature and the area we found the children, or failing that kill it.
It is a very dense forest. We are not not even likely to get a shot at it before it is trying to eat our face. Your "course of action" is nearly impossible, very probably useless, and most likely suicidal.
Again, I'm not proposing we go wander aimlessly into the forest. From my previous post:
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3. If all else fails, go to the forest and investigate the clearing we found the children in for vitality and magic. If we come upon the thing that attacked us last night, try to capture it with Command or Impair Undead on its legs instead of killing it with Drain Vitality if possible, so that we may analyze it with our necromantic sight and the command undead spell.
That is my proposal. All those spells are line of sight spells. A clearing has nothing to obstruct line of sight. My course of action is very possible, very useful (unless you know of a different quick and morally acceptable way to analyze the undead and gain more knowledge about soul manipulation and advanced necromantic constructs) and contains no more risk then taking on a zombie.

And the whole concept of the traveling necromancer is suicidal. The main necromancer's army is A FEW DAYS away from us. An army of the undead is a few days away from us. If that isn't suicidal, I don't know what is. If Nym wanted a safe way to gain knowledge, she should had chosen the life of a hermit lost deep inside the Vale, or she should have taken Fale's offer and joined the evil necromancers.
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What choice do we have now? Where do we go from here if not through the forest? And we need no meatshield. Why would we? Physical shields are of no use against what lies there. Our powers are enough to handle this. You can't expect everything to be easy and risk free. Sometimes you have to take reasonable calculated risks.
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The point of the meatshield is not kill the beast for us. It is to die and buy us time to kill the beast. Because we have absolutely no skill in fighting and are going to die if it jumps us or get too close for casting. Physical barriers and shields are good to buy us time to try to cast a spell at whatever it is. And hope it actually works and it is not protected against it. Our powers are only enough if, not only it works, but we manage to cast before we are eaten and taken away.
That thing doesn't fight physically. It has no claws or knifes. It fights through the alteration of vitality through physical contact. It is an ambush predator, striking sleeping or unaware enemies. And it cannot ambush us. Our abilities make sure we can sense it well before it is upon us. That means that we are going to have enough time to prepare to fight it.
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And sure, sometimes we have to take reasonable and calculated risks. Sure, I don't expect everything to be easy and risk free. But I do like to avoid insane risks for very questionable gains.
It is no more riskier to us then fighting a zombie. And if you see studying an advanced necromantic construct, something we are unlikely to learn how to build on our own, as "questionable gains", what is "non-questionable gains"?
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And again, we barely know anything about the forest. For all we know there could be a small army of those things there and we were just lucky last time to only find one.
There is definitely a small army of those things in the forest. It's the only way they could cover the entire forest at all times. However, because they are covering the entire forest at all times, we are unlikely to come upon more then one.
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And besides, we are voting for what to do this afternoon since Omo and the priest have't returned. You want us to leave and go to the forest without now, without even finding them and telling you are going to try something?
No we aren't, we're discussing long term plans, unless you can rise an army of the undead overnight, like you said in a previous post. I deduced from that that we are discussing long term plans. I've already given my short term action here.
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Let's study the wards in the books. If we learn them well enough, maybe we can try to do something against the beast(s) in the forest. Methodically. And carefully. And using bait (live chicken, rats, or rabbits might be good for that). Trying to check its limitations before actually going after it.
We've already studied the wards. They are Order magic. We can't even begin to understand how they work, let alone replicate them. If they were Life spells, maybe we could replicate them. But Order is something completely different from Death. The only thing you could do is try to replicate their effects and to do that, you have to actually tell us how exactly you'll go about doing that.

And what makes you think that thing will go after the bait first, instead of going after us?

I would like to spend much of our day's mana trying to bolster the children's vitality pulses. Basically C.P.R. for the soul... We should also have their senses covered and a sedative prepared so that the children have no idea who did it if it works and they wake up suddenly. Or we can play the life mage card, which could go badly if folk start looking for life mages to fix it, but would be less likely to fall apart due to us being an obvious recent influence on the children.
It would be a good experiment, although unlikely to succeed because
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"They didn't know at first- cripplingly, their Wizards had died in the initial confrontation with Balkoth, and by the time they knew what was going on it was too late. After a few days, desertion was rampant, and Girus was forced to withdraw from the forest with a fraction of his army. Hounded by zombies, he withdrew to the West, hoping to raise another army before Balkoth could sack Atkilpeme. They managed to bring some of the afflicted to the cities on the Great River, and the Wizards there were able to identify the problem- the soldiers had had their souls removed." Somberly, Eko raises his flask to his lips.
You are silent for a long moment. "Uh... what's a soul?" Omo asks, scratching his head.
Eko coughs, spluttering on his drink. "What's a.. what's a soul? Did you pay no attention to your priest, boy?"
"We're, ah, from far away." You say carefully. "Maybe we call it something else."
"Far away..." He gives you a considering look, then stabs a finger at you. "You, my dear, are an elf."
"I- well, yes. We don't advertise the fact- we prefer to keep a low profile."
Eko shakes his head. "I should have figured it out before now- your clothes and appearance are enough, if I hadn't been distracted by the children. I'm sure you have a story to tell, but you're my guests, and I won't make you tell it if you don't want to. Well. The soul is... it's the animating spirit, I suppose you could say. Everything living has one- humans, elves, animals, bugs... well maybe not bugs, I've never asked. Think of a zombie- they walk around, their bodies move, but they aren't really alive. They don't think, they have no ambition, no personality- they're just empty shells. Your body is just a sack of meat that carries you around, and the part of you that is uniquely you is the soul."
So, since they lack that part of their vitality network, their soul that makes them unique, even if you did recreate it, they would probably not be the same person. Then again we have heard the stories about the elves that resurrected the dead, so maybe there is something in the body that allows the soul to repair itself, given enough vitality and the right stimulation. And, from here, you can suck vitality from yourself and manipulate it without any of it being lost, although it's not pleasant. So if you draw vitality for yourself, one vitality drawn=one vitality given.

So, to restate my short term actions:
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 06:45:22 am by Parisbre56 »
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Grek

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1636 on: May 10, 2013, 07:00:20 am »

We have no reason to confront Eko. There is nothing we could possibly gain from upsetting him, and he seems to legitimately be a good person.

Defeating the spirit we saw before should not be difficult. We know what it is, what it does and how it was made. We can see it coming using our necromantic vision, and we can destroy it with Steal Vitality.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1637 on: May 10, 2013, 07:08:36 am »

Even so, he IS withholding information and acting strangely. If there is something wrong, we should know about it. If he has some kind of a problem, we should know about it so we can maybe help him. We're not shaking him down, we're not extorting him. We're asking because we care and are concerned both about his safety and the safety of the villagers.

And I think studying that thing before killing it is more beneficial.

RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1638 on: May 10, 2013, 08:28:32 am »

I agree to study the forest monster, we want to disable it, and command it, but try to make sure that it doesn't get a chance to touch anyone.

I feel that at the moment we are still learning about the soul, if these vitality pulses are reflections of the soul, then the fact that the children still possess them at all suggests that stmulating those pulses is within the bounds of things that we aren't really confident won't work. And if it fails, then we might see that there is an absent source, or that the flows are encountering resistance, or that a proportion of the vitality is vanishing, or anything really, the point is that there is a small chance that, whatever has afflicted these children(The soul-stealing thing seems to be an assumption based upon the victim's symptoms, it is still possible that they have been misdiagnosed.) could be reversed by stimulating their natural functions. And there is also a chance that we could learn something from the process. Andthe worst case scenario is that an angry mob walks in on us pushing somehow visible murky purple energy into the soulless child who then wakes up and starts screaming about Evil spirits. And then the roof collapses on our head. ad then a goblin steals our pig tail sock and then drops it in a giant cave spider lair.

I don't really want Nym to confront Eko about the zombie. We do have our own secrets afterall. But if we can extort an answer from them then it would satisfy curiosity and could potentially get us an ally or reveal some form of threat...
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Felius

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1639 on: May 10, 2013, 09:48:30 am »

You want to march through the forest, hoping we don't get ambushed before getting to the clearing, hoping there is only one creature once you get there, hoping that you manage to hit, try to hit with a non-lethal strike? For fuck's sake, what are you? Fed up with the quest and hoping we die?
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1640 on: May 10, 2013, 11:07:18 am »

Why go to the clearing? Just wait at the edge of the forest. And this on paper, this entity doesn't look very dangerous.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1641 on: May 10, 2013, 11:07:54 am »

You want to march through the forest, hoping we don't get ambushed before getting to the clearing, hoping there is only one creature once you get there,
Worked fine the first time. What's changed?

We can't get ambushed because of our necromantic sight which works even if the thing is buried 30 feet underground.
And the reasonable assumption is that there is only one creature there. Whatever that thing is, it will surely be costly to build. It stands to reason that a necromancer would only assign one of those per section of the forest. Even if there's more per section of the forest, they do not seem to have very sophisticated orders (the thing charged straight at us), thus pack hunting is unlikely.
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hoping that you manage to hit, try to hit with a non-lethal strike?
We're a necromancer. We're not casting lvl.1 fireball here. These are very specific spells that work with line of sight. The spells are comprised of looking at the thing and concentrating on its vitality, using our will to connect with it and then imposing our will to it. Remember, that thing was made to kill normal human soldiers. It was never meant to go up against necromancers, thus we have no reason to believe it is protected against necromantic attacks any more then a zombie is. Its biggest weapon is fear, the fear it's causing you right now.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 11:10:54 am by Parisbre56 »
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Angle

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1642 on: May 10, 2013, 11:17:04 am »

I have to agree with paris here, I don't think this thing is that dangerous. If we just pop in the side f the forest, wait for it to show up and ambush it ourselves, we should be fine.
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Zavvnao

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1643 on: May 10, 2013, 11:53:49 am »

I remember reading the part of monk's last post that its taking omo a long time to get back. is he on to us?
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racnor

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1644 on: May 10, 2013, 03:44:25 pm »

on vitality jumpstarting: Eko said life mages have tried and failed on this condition. Pure vit probably wouldn't cut it

on the thing in the forest: if it worries you so much, we can bring a bunch of stick and make a barricade(remember, it was stopped by a fallen log. Its the size of a large dog.) that will give us plenty of time to get behind the wards. If we need more security, then we can wait for our mana to regenerate.

On being found out: blame it on the zombie, if it happens.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1645 on: May 10, 2013, 05:16:21 pm »

Are you certain he said Life mages? We know Order has healing spells too. If Life mages, people who can see the vitality network of things, have tried then that means that we probably have no chance of succeeding with a pure vitality manipulation approach. We need to find what's missing from them, if possible. Then again, necromancers are more capable of recreating life then Life mages so maybe they are also more capable of recreating souls then Life mages.

Something like a shark proof cage for necromantic constructs? Or something like a hunter's blind? Or a fence? Either way, good idea.

racnor

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-14
« Reply #1646 on: May 10, 2013, 05:36:05 pm »


"You'll let the children die?" You say incredulously.
"What else can I do? My magics have failed me again. The records say that in the past we've called on healers from all faiths, even the Elves, but the Mages could do nothing for us. These bodies could easily persist into old age if we cared for them, but for what purpose? They are already dead, and the living still need my care."

Also, a fence.
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1647 on: May 10, 2013, 11:00:59 pm »

Well we can be pretty much certain that they were lying about getting mages from all faiths, and they were in a genocidal war with necromancy at the time, which would also explain why the life mages didn't have the time or resources to go experimenting with new techniques. The life mages are all elves as far as I know, and the elves were likely pretty quick to become isolationist after the war almost made them extinct...
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fergus

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1648 on: May 11, 2013, 08:19:43 am »

So, to restate my short term actions:
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
+1 to this.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-17
« Reply #1649 on: May 11, 2013, 08:41:38 am »

So, to restate my short term actions:
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
+1 to this.
+1
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