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Author Topic: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-36 Decisions, Decisions  (Read 656692 times)

speedyth

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1785 on: August 23, 2013, 11:19:59 pm »

Quote
We have Eko cast a ward on himself and maybe on Omo too, but not on us. We make sure to stay outside the range of the ward.
FTFY

PS: I see no problem with your suggestion. carry on...
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1786 on: August 24, 2013, 08:43:31 am »

And if we encounter it, control undead...
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1787 on: August 24, 2013, 09:01:11 am »

Why cast wards on 2 people? Won't be any different from having it on Eko. Plus, having it on Eko gives us an excuse to get away from him.

Harbingerjm

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1788 on: August 24, 2013, 09:40:17 am »

Why cast wards on 2 people? Won't be any different from having it on Eko. Plus, having it on Eko gives us an excuse to get away from him.
How would it do that?
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1789 on: August 24, 2013, 09:46:06 am »

"We are crazy little elves. We want to lure the creature. To do that, we need to get out of the field."
Switch "we want to lure the creature" with another excuse.

Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1790 on: August 24, 2013, 02:03:19 pm »

Wow it's been a long time since I've checked this thread out. Time to catch up and see what I can contribute. :P

----------------------

Ward: It's simple. Find a clearing, cast Alarm triggered sensing Necromantic Energy (maybe connect that to a major ward, or even a Sanctuary if his alcohol is secretly a mana potion/we're willing to share ours). If Alarm is tripped, that obviously means something is there and we won't need to explain how we know something is there without tipping Eko off about our necromantic abilities. Of course, we should probably find out what the range specifications of all those spells are before finalizing that. Alternatively, cast an Alarm that triggers a Minor Ward centered on Eko (if we want more mobility), cast an Alarm that triggers a Major Ward centered on Eko (if we want more mobility AND if we're willing to share our mana potions) or simply cast a Minor Ward centered on Eko (if we want to let our Necromantic Sight do all the work).

Using Sense Necromancy/Necromantic Sight with the Ward in Place: If the ward works, presumably the creatures won't be able detect our presence. Eko will likely cast divinations at that point-- which, from past experience, will probably detect nothing. At that point, we could suggest that the divinations can't detect creatures of necromancy, but it's hard to tell what Eko will say to that-- on one hand, he seems to have been indoctrinated pretty strongly that Order magic is all that matters; on the other hand, he's also clearly been questioning some of that doctrine. We could also suggest that it's Eko's divinations alone that can't detect them, but that seems somewhat callous to say-- especially when there's strong hints that the former explanation is far more likely. If they do detect something, however, then we might not have the luxury of explaining why we're stepping outside of the safety of whatever spell he casts.

Telling Eko About Necromancy/Recruiting Him: I'm not entirely sure it's a bad idea to just tell him once we're in Aloclesno proper-- while he's expressed more neutral facts and the general opinions of Thrimesdur than his own perspectives on the subject, he's presented them in a thoughtful, open-minded manner that points toward the ability to accept us. Alternatively, we could tell him after we dispel the creature, but it might already be obvious by that point. As for coming along, we should offer only if we:

A) tell him about our necromantic abilities and he doesn't outright reject us,
B) extract a sworn oath from him that he won't tell anyone (as long as we don't turn evil, of course),
C) beat the monster(s) of Aloclesno,
D) and are still in Aloclesno, even if it's the outskirts.

If he proves reluctant to believe in our good intentions even after C, we can invite him along as someone with more magical abilities and enough lack of bias to keep an eye on us where Omo, being unskilled in magic and our best friend, might not. If he does accept us, we can appeal to his desire to help others-- by that point we will have shown our unique ability to assist via A and how effective we can be via C. If he rejects our offer, then we should be safe via B and D-- he's an Order mage, oaths have got to be important to him, and no one will be going deep enough into Aloclesno to overhear us, not even Bale. As for what we do if he does outright reject us... let's not dwell too much on that. :(

Thinking on it, the monsters of Aloclesno sound as if they're actually not very powerful at all, magically-speaking. They've only preyed on humans with no magical ability, like soldiers and children. Girus' army lost their wizards before they even retreated into the forest, and all the mages they've had look into the problem only examined the aftermath (the victims), not the cause-- well, okay, Kiros tried to look into the cause, but he found nothing. Speaking of which, that seems to imply that either Order mages can't detect the presence of these creatures with divinations or that the latter are both too weak to face a mage/anyone  prepared for an attack, as well as smart enough to identify and avoid them-- perhaps both. Of course, that's no reason to go unprepared in the face of uncertainty, but wouldn't it be hilarious if we were making such a big fuss about the Necromantic soul-stealing equivalent of a goblin?

The Prophecy: It'd be amazingly tragic if *we* were the necromancer destined to kill the Emperor because he's a horrible bastard or something like that. Far more likely is that Curo will end up doing that at some point, or maybe Fale/any one of Morka's unknown number of followers.

Regarding the profiles: "Clarity" is slightly confusing, imo. How long does Eko have to meditate to get that effect? Does he have to meditate during the attack or beforehand in preparation? If the latter, how long does the effect last? Etc. The wards could use range specifications in their descriptions (assuming we know their range; if not we should probably ask Eko). Nym's "Sense Necromancy" passive ability reads "Sense Necromantic Energy at a range of 5*Vitality*Vitality feet;" was that intended to be Vitality^2? It looks like a typo.

Also, the fact that Eko, who is clearly far more experienced than us, has 9 Mana in comparison to our 12, and has only twice the number of spells we have when we've only been a true mage for twenty-two days really says something, I think.

Something about our TALENT. ;D

Edit: mfw I'm editing my post and forget that indenting lines doesn't work in forum posts right before I try to insert another paragraph above the line by pressing enter. -_-
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 02:52:20 pm by Deep Waters »
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

Angle

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1791 on: August 24, 2013, 02:07:17 pm »

It's vitality squared, yes.
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Harbingerjm

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1792 on: August 24, 2013, 03:15:58 pm »

The Prophecy: It'd be amazingly tragic if *we* were the necromancer destined to kill the Emperor because he's a horrible bastard or something like that. Far more likely is that Curo will end up doing that at some point, or maybe Fale/any one of Morka's unknown number of followers.
And then it turned out that the Last Emperor was a necromancer and turned himself into a lich.
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1793 on: August 24, 2013, 05:27:40 pm »

Yeah, Emperor is a necromancer, Curo Nightroar is a pseudonym for the emperor to act under, the emperor succumbs to an old trap that was set by Balkoth, the necromancy god uses them as a portal to enter our world, we kill them to use their extra-special blood to fight other necromancers...

Kiros could have just been lying, they may have wanted to study the forest's magic or made some sort of pact with an intelligence that controls it...

Using an alarm would be risky, we do not know the exact nature of the entity, and a more general alarm might be triggered by an actual necromancer...
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Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1794 on: August 24, 2013, 05:49:46 pm »

Yeah, Emperor is a necromancer, Curo Nightroar is a pseudonym for the emperor to act under, the emperor succumbs to an old trap that was set by Balkoth, the necromancy god uses them as a portal to enter our world, we kill them to use their extra-special blood to fight other necromancers...

Kiros could have just been lying, they may have wanted to study the forest's magic or made some sort of pact with an intelligence that controls it...

Using an alarm would be risky, we do not know the exact nature of the entity, and a more general alarm might be triggered by an actual necromancer...

Kiros may have been lying, but there's no reason not to believe that he was telling the truth. The forest was explicitly ordinary before the curse, and there's no indication that necromantic magic has any effect on its environment simply by being present there; thus, it's highly unlikely that the forest has any magic of its own. There's little evidence that there is an intelligent entity behind the curse, and even if there were, what would it have to gain from such a pact that Kiros could or even tried to provide?

That is, of course, assuming that Kiros would've made such a pact; since a large part of our motivation has to do with the idea that necromancy is not inherently evil, assuming that a fascination with such magic leads to evil is kind of counterproductive. Furthermore, Kiros himself had little to gain from such a pact-- he was an Order mage, and, as far as we know, it's impossible or at least incredibly difficult to learn spells across disciplines. That's the only thing I can think of that a necromantic entity could offer that Kiros clearly didn't take advantage of.

After all, if he were lying, why wouldn't he tell a lie that wouldn't lead to him being banished to a monastery for years, or maybe even for life? If he was punished because his lie was found out, why wouldn't Eko mention this very important hypothetical fact?

As for Alarm, we already know that the entity is composed of or at least uses Necromantic Energy, because we can sense/see it with our passive abilities. I also don't see us using necromancy until we actually know that something is there, anyway-- we don't really have any necromancy spells that are useful to prepare before a battle, and even if we did we could probably just cast them before Eko finishes casting that Alarm/ward combo (which I suspect would take as long as both spells combined to set up?). Thus, there's no reason that we would cast a necromantic spell before the alarm is already tripped by someone else.

If another necromancer trips it somehow, then I don't see what's the downside to that, either-- the Alarm is to help us become aware of a presence that might not be entirely detectable by us before it's too late, in a way that doesn't require us to explain ourselves (like our Necromantic sight) while at the same time automatically setting off a nice shield. If something unexpected trips it, then that will only serve to mitigate such an unwelcome surprise.

Can you clarify why you believe using Alarm is a downside?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 05:53:47 pm by Deep Waters »
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1795 on: August 24, 2013, 07:02:23 pm »

Oh, I just had the perfect idea: Ward grenades. Like smoke grenades, only better.
Quote
Alarm- 1 MP - Casting time: 10 minutes. Creates a field that waits on a specific trigger, often the presence of a particular magical energy or the movement or destruction of a physical item. When activated, the field can either create a noise of some kind, or trigger another spell entirely. Has a duration of about one week, though each additional point of mana spent increases the duration of the ward by three or four weeks each.
Cast alarm on a stick, then have it trigger a minor ward when the stick breaks. That way, we can have the ward ready to trigger whenever we need it. And it can also be used offensively or to trap the creature. We just have to ask Eko if it works like that.

If it's possible, I say we do that.

Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1796 on: August 24, 2013, 07:12:13 pm »

Oh, I just had the perfect idea: Ward grenades. Like smoke grenades, only better.
Quote
Alarm- 1 MP - Casting time: 10 minutes. Creates a field that waits on a specific trigger, often the presence of a particular magical energy or the movement or destruction of a physical item. When activated, the field can either create a noise of some kind, or trigger another spell entirely. Has a duration of about one week, though each additional point of mana spent increases the duration of the ward by three or four weeks each.
Cast alarm on a stick, then have it trigger a minor ward when the stick breaks. That way, we can have the ward ready to trigger whenever we need it. And it can also be used offensively or to trap the creature. We just have to ask Eko if it works like that.

IF IT'S POSSIBLE, i SAY WE DO THAT.

A minor ward wouldn't really do all that much; it seems to just bend necromantic perception (when used against necromancy, anyway). It's definitely intriguing if you apply it to higher spells, though. Imagine having something that's easily shattered and casting an Alarm-triggered Minor Abjuration on it-- like an EMP grenade, but for magic instead of electronics, heh.

In this situation, though, I think it would be a better idea to have it triggered by Necromantic Energy, simply because it would help disguise our ability to sense nearby necromantic creatures by setting Eko up to be our "lookout," so to speak. We won't have to explain why we know something is there, because Eko will know already.
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1797 on: August 24, 2013, 07:22:00 pm »

It could be triggered when we cast a necromantic spell to investigate the area. We don't know how sensitive alarm is.

And we can always say we sensed the creature's vitality with See Vitality, which is technically not lying, since our necromantic sight essentially picks vitality affected by necromantic energy. See Vitality is the most common spell among elven Life mages. He'll probably just assume that we're uneducated Life mages.

Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1798 on: August 24, 2013, 07:35:28 pm »

It could be triggered when we cast a necromantic spell to investigate the area. We don't know how sensitive alarm is.

And we can always say we sensed the creature's vitality with See Vitality, which is technically not lying, since our necromantic sight essentially picks vitality affected by necromantic energy. See Vitality is the most common spell among elven Life mages. He'll probably just assume that we're uneducated Life mages.

We don't have any necromantic spells that investigate the area aside from See Vitality, which isn't likely to be any more useful than Necromantic Sight in this case. All of the others create effects with varying degrees of visibility. Our Sense Necromancy and Necromantic Sight are both passive abilities, not spells. If those give off necromantic energy (which I highly doubt), then we'll set off his Alarm before we even step into the forest-- but we're going to have a lot more to worry about if it does, because that would mean that we literally can't hide our status as necromancers in the face of any spell that detects necromancy unless it's targeted.

Actually, if we do decide against using an Alarm-triggered ward and we manage to succeed and recruit Eko anyway, we should probably test that out. While I'm almost certain it doesn't work like that, we need to know for sure if that's going to be a problem in the future or not.

Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

Grek

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-22 (Updated 20th August)
« Reply #1799 on: August 24, 2013, 07:51:25 pm »

@Deep Waters:
I think you're overthinking things a bit. Eko will know we are a mage as soon as we cast the spell to destroy the curse, if he hasn't already figured it out. If we want to continue to pose as a Life mage (and I think we should, at least for now) then being able to passively detect vitality is not something we need need to hide.

That said, getting Eko to cast an Alarm on a twig which will make a minor ward when the twig is broken would be a very sound precaution. If something bad happens, Omo or Eko can break the twig and make us invisible to the curse spirit.
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