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Author Topic: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-36 Decisions, Decisions  (Read 320234 times)

Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-26
« Reply #1980 on: April 09, 2015, 04:37:18 am »

If the command undead spell fails to resolve, does it still consume MP? Because I think it doesn't.

Also, what do you think? Should we get Omo and Eko to run immediately? Or just get them to back off and be ready to run in case our spells fail?
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-26
« Reply #1981 on: April 09, 2015, 08:08:55 am »

Your thought is that maybe you can drain the Vitality from one leaf and put it in the other without using Steal Vitality; something more efficient, something with less waste. When you try, however, you find you don't know another way to manipulate the Vitality short of pulling it out of the leaf and towards you- essentially beginning to cast Steal Vitality. It is rather like you had two buckets, one full of water and one empty; you can't work out a way to get water out of the full bucket without picking it up first.
Vacuums. The trick isn't to get the water from the first bucket into the second - the trick is to get the water from the first bucket to get itself into the second bucket, or have the second get the first's water. I don't know, I'm not good at physics.
Anyway, this line of thinking has led me to another. What if we're not actually controlling vitality itself? What if we're simply pushing it around? My hypothesis is that life mages move around water itself (vitality) but necromancers move around the buckets or create new ones as needed using mana. With Steal Vitality, we're using mana to create a bucket and scooping out the vitality with it.

Don't mind me. These are just some random thoughts I had.
I don't think that's the case. If you look at what the raise zombie spell, you'll see that it actually used necromantic energy to repair the body by replacing the damaged parts with necromantic energy and thus keep the vitality in the body. So necromancy just uses necromantic energy to mess with vitality, probably the same as life and order magic. And those shades that Eko mentioned are probably living creatures with bodies made out of pure vitality held together by necromantic energy.

That's my theory, anyway. Not much time to expand on it.

This is sensible, but I'm not sure about the diplomacy. It's not something we've tried before, and the rest of the plan would only leave us with 1 mana. We don't want to risk using too much to drain all of its vitality at the end if we need to. Otherwise +1.
Actually, we have 11 mp.
Assuming that casting command undead fails but still takes 2mp, then that leaves us with 9mp.
Even if we assume that for some reason we cast a different spell than command undead, something like "communicate with undead" or something similar that costs more MP, we'll be at worst at 7mp (I don't expect a weak spell to take more than 4mp).
Then we need two or three impair undead. Assuming worst case scenario, that leaves us at worst at 1mp. That's enough to remove 2 vitality from the target. If worse comes to worse, we can cast from HP, but the best choice would be to get a mana potion ready, just in case.

I would like to amend the previous plan with the following:
If we have enough time, get that mana potion ready to use in case we need it.
If we can quickly identify the creature's method of attack and it looks easy to disable, we should try to impair that first, before going for the legs and eyes.
And for the love of Atal and Uzin, do not get too distracted gawking at the creature. Safety first, Brainiac Science second. Be ready to run in case it looks like things are going badly.
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-26
« Reply #1982 on: April 09, 2015, 03:23:24 pm »

Inform Eko that the creature has arrived and suggest that he promptly withdraw towards the ward.
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Dani

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-26
« Reply #1983 on: April 12, 2015, 07:57:52 am »

!!!

PTW!
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monk12

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1984 on: April 13, 2015, 02:24:01 pm »

Even though the creature looks like an ambush predator, in the case of the children it didn't look like there were any signs of struggle. One child lost its soul on the spot and the other run and then ended face first into the dirt with its soul gone. So we know that it takes some time to steal a soul or to recover after stealing one, but the process almost immediately incapacitates the one attacked. Even if Omo can one-hit-KO the creature and even if he can resist the attack for a few seconds due to his high vitality and training (unlikely, since soldiers didn't have much luck with it), we shouldn't risk having him fight the creature. So he should definitely back off to a safer height/distance or if we can't convince him to do so, at least convince him to not attack.

Eko should also be warned about the direction it's coming from so that he is ready to cast a necromantic abjuration to keep the creature away. Still not sure about whether or not he should run with Omo so they can help each other (Omo with navigating the forest, Eko with abjurations).

And now that we do not have line of sight and cannot attack the creature, we should try commanding it. Imagine being a creature with 6 legs, trotting through the forest, seeing the souls of 3 humanoids in a way similar to "see vitality". If it turns out the creature is easily controlled, we should make it stop while we decide how to proceed. If it resist or if it is intelligent, then we should try to convince it with simple feelings and mental images that we mean it no harm and that it should not hurt us and that we're a necromancer that can help. Or if that doesn't work we should convince it (again through simple feelings and mental images) that we are powerful and we can kill it, like Balkoth, so it should obey us, essentially intimidating it and associating ourselves with people we know it didn't hurt. We should generally focus our mind on our need/desire to communicate and exude a feeling of peace, stillness and being in control during the entire Command procedure. We should keep it simple, in case it is an alien low intelligence creature like the ones Eko described.

Once we get line of sight and if we have failed to control it, we can try impairing its eyes and then its legs, since it is one of our invisible spells.
Only steal vitality if it is getting dangerously close and impair does not work. Even then, try not to steal all of its vitality unless it looks like if we won't kill it it'll hurt one of us, so we can study it.

If things look like they are not working, we and the others should be ready to run away.

This is sensible, but I'm not sure about the diplomacy. It's not something we've tried before, and the rest of the plan would only leave us with 1 mana. We don't want to risk using too much to drain all of its vitality at the end if we need to. Otherwise +1.

+1

   "Nym." From his vantage, Omo can see the approaching monster. He sounds focused, like a nocked arrow.
   Your mind races in the heat of the moment. "Climb higher, Omo. It's coming for you. Try to get out of reach."
   Omo doesn't respond, simply making his way higher in the tree until the branches become too thin and spaced out to reach easily. Eko scrambles to his feet. "It's coming?" he asks in alarm, clumsily readying his spear.
   "It is. Get your Abjurations ready, it's going for Omo."

   You push Eko from your mind as you focus on the creature clattering through the underbrush; it's a wonder Eko doesn't hear the noise for himself. You quickly try to piece together what the monster must be from your limited information: it has six legs, like a giant bug, it's looking at the same bushes and trees that you are, it's on a mission to find You and Omo and Eko, it has sight like a Necromancer. When you try to Command it you can feel an echo, or rather a hum like an arrow whistling past your ear or an unseen hand just behind your head. It's a feeling of closeness that is strongest when you focus on it's Necromantic Sight and what it feels, but weakest when considering what it sees and what its body is. You sense that Command Undead is possible, but you do not yet know enough about it to make the spell resolve.

   You step quickly along a thick branch of the tree you're hiding in, trying to get a better view to help finish your spell. You grab a higher branch and lean outwards, getting a clear look around the tree between yourself and Omo. This affords you a clear view of the monster as it breaks through the undergrowth and emerges directly beneath Omo's tree.

   It's not really a monster though, or a creature at all. It's some kind of bewilderingly complicated golem. Its body appears to be cast out of ancient bronze, dented and tarnished. It's legs are made of the same stuff, but have suffered even more abuse, and the "feet" of the construct are covered in muck. The places where the legs join the body are concealed by strips of leather; when the legs move (an awkwardly violent up and down motion) flashes of purple light illuminate the ground as the leather shifts. The construct as a whole is plain-looking and unadorned, rather like a metallic water tub had decided to go for a walk in the woods.

   It's just outside the range of your detailed Necromantic Sight, though you can still get a sense for the shape of the Necromantic energy animating the construct. A disproportionate amount of Vitality seems to be concentrated towards the front of the body; the head, perhaps. The body itself holds very little, serving more as a hub for energy to flow into the legs, pooling at the joints and trickling down each limb.

   There is no time to discern details; only this glimpse. From the time you first sensed the construct to the time it burst into view has been only a handful of seconds. Now it is directly beneath Omo, and though its body ceases its frantic movement the speed of its actions transfers immediately to the realm of Necromancy. To your eyes, a fine rope of Necromantic energy seems to erupt from the "head" of the monster, snaking up between the branches before coiling around Omo's head. There is a whipping motion as the rope of Necromantic energy curls into a ball and snaps back towards the creature.

   Omo falls from the tree.

   Eko curses, stumbling forward as Omo's body crashes through the branches, landing in a heap on the forest floor. You don't have time to waste on profanity or useless shouts. Your blood is rushing in your ears. What do you do?


Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)

Baffler

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1985 on: April 13, 2015, 03:19:55 pm »

Oh shit.

Do we try to drain all of it's energy right away? We know that we can quickly destroy it that way, but we might also lose the ability to help Omo. We could also try to incapacitate it with Alter Golem, either by severing its leg joints and rendering it immobile or by damaging the head and (hopefully) disabling its attack. The only thing I can think of to do for sure is to use See Vitality and try to see what's going on. The way the energy was directed by its attack seems to suggest that the golem took whatever it did from Omo rather than just displacing it and letting it dissipate. If we're lucky it holds onto that vitality, at least for a time.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1986 on: April 13, 2015, 03:37:00 pm »

I am so angry right now. Mostly at that thing and at myself for not wording my plan more carefully to cover every eventuality.

I say jump on it and cast impair undead/alter golem on it until all its weapons, sensors and legs are gone.

EDIT: I suppose we could attempt to control it. It is the safest choice, but that has a chance of not working. And screw that thing, it should feel pain for what it did. No mercy.
Besides, we know that it should take some time for it to be able to attack again. If command undead fails again, we'll loose that advantage. Better to take out its means of attack first. And since I'm guessing the reason we did not impair that necromantic soulgrabeer was because it moved too fast, we probably won't get a second chance.

EDITEDIT: And if we see Omo's soul and it looks like it's trying to do something to it, we should stop whatever mechanism it is using immediately. Maybe try commanding it again. Cast see vitality if we have enough time?
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1987 on: April 13, 2015, 04:12:57 pm »

Now that we know it's a golem and have it in clear view, we may well be able to make the command spell resolve. We know it's possible, we just didn't know enough about it to empathize with it. That's probably the best way of stopping it available to us at this point, and if Omo can be helped that would be the way to do it. I still vote for using See Vitality first though, we need to know more about what's going on here.

It shouldn't be our main concern, but this is also an excellent example of a fully functional golem. We could get a lot of valuable information from analyzing it's inner workings up close, and I'm sure Eko would be glad to have the opportunity to take a look at it as well. There's also very little chance that we'll make it out of this confrontation without Eko realizing that we're a necromancer, or at least highly suspicious of us in regard to our ability. That might go badly but it's also kind of a secondary concern right now.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 04:15:20 pm by Baffler »
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1988 on: April 13, 2015, 04:14:04 pm »

control seems to be the best choice.

look at it.

picture ourself in its body. seeing a humman and folowing its directive that drives it. see ourselves take humman soul.

then
control, give the lasting order to stop attacking hummans. then try to restore omo.

should this work. march the thing back to the city and restore the children.


after this, we can have revenge on it for makeing us worry about omo.
study it. make it a minion, whatever. 

save explanations for how we did this for after we restore omo and the children.
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monk12

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1989 on: April 13, 2015, 06:11:01 pm »

And since I'm guessing the reason we did not impair that necromantic soulgrabeer was because it moved too fast, we probably won't get a second chance.

This is indeed the case. You did stuff, then it did stuff. Now you get to do stuff, and depending on how that goes it gets to do stuff too.

On that note, if your vote is to Impair it you may want to specify what area you're starting with, since you won't be able to impair every single part of the construct in one go.

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1990 on: April 13, 2015, 06:50:30 pm »

Hopefully Eko's abjuration is protection enough if it tries to attack him, and it doesn't interfere with our own magic. There's not much we can do to help him from here, but wouldn't that be ironic?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:03:18 am by Baffler »
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1991 on: April 13, 2015, 06:57:53 pm »

And since I'm guessing the reason we did not impair that necromantic soulgrabeer was because it moved too fast, we probably won't get a second chance.

This is indeed the case. You did stuff, then it did stuff. Now you get to do stuff, and depending on how that goes it gets to do stuff too.

On that note, if your vote is to Impair it you may want to specify what area you're starting with, since you won't be able to impair every single part of the construct in one go.
Whatever it's using to attack. Unless it looks like that would damage the soul, In which case we should go for whatever it's using to see/sense souls, something like its eyes.

But if we end up going with the command one, we should also focus on what it should be feeling. When we controlled that rope golem, we could feel its body, we could feel what it was touching, we could even feel the dirt in it. So based on what it is and how its body parts are, how they are stained and dented, how the leather bends, we should try to feel those.

And if we succeed, we should tell Eko to not attack (or order the creature to retreat to a safer distance), in case that causes our command spell to fail (after all, the spell should be made out of necromantic energy and a necromantic abjuration could dispell that). We can worry about explaining, making excuses or coming clean later, when we're not all dead.

Still, I'd prefer the offensive one, using impair on it (while attacking it physically, trying to tear it apart, if possible). Mostly because its more emotional and it seems more... real, less cold and logical. Personal preference, I suppose.
Plus, we can make an excuse more easily later, something like "Oh, I must have damaged some important piece of the monster without realizing it during my frenzied attack."
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Jon puts in a request for personnel transfer. Under the "Why" section he writes "Because it would be wicked sweet."

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1992 on: April 13, 2015, 07:31:57 pm »

We should try for a command and tell it to stop and wait.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1993 on: April 14, 2015, 05:03:06 am »

Quote
   It's just outside the range of your detailed Necromantic Sight, though you can still get a sense for the shape of the Necromantic energy animating the construct. A disproportionate amount of Vitality seems to be concentrated towards the front of the body; the head, perhaps. The body itself holds very little, serving more as a hub for energy to flow into the legs, pooling at the joints and trickling down each limb.

   There is no time to discern details; only this glimpse. From the time you first sensed the construct to the time it burst into view has been only a handful of seconds. Now it is directly beneath Omo, and though its body ceases its frantic movement the speed of its actions transfers immediately to the realm of Necromancy. To your eyes, a fine rope of Necromantic energy seems to erupt from the "head" of the monster, snaking up between the branches before coiling around Omo's head. There is a whipping motion as the rope of Necromantic energy curls into a ball and snaps back towards the creature.

These observations may be the key to determining how we can defeat the monster and save Omo. I agree with Parisbre's suggestion of attempting to damage the golem, with the exception that, assuming we're thinking clearly enough, I want to destroy its legs. Remember, what can't reach you can't hurt you, and it got pretty close to Omo before it attacked him. That indicates that it has a relatively short range. I'd like to impair at least three of its legs first, and preferably up to five to slow it as much as possible without depriving us of the opportunity to study its structure later (unless we're panicking, of course, in which case go the "realistic character" route). Then, we can either destroy its method of attack or attempt to command it without risking further harm. The former is a more emotional and believable response, while the latter is more helpful in the long run-- though it's rather cold for taking care of a monster that may have just killed our best friend. In case it isn't obvious, I would prefer the former.

Speaking of which, the most important question when it comes to saving Omo may be this: Did that whip-like motion steal/damage/destroy something that we can't see with Necromantic Sight (like a soul), or did it steal/damage/destroy something we can see (like a vitality network)? If the former, we better hope destroying or examining that construct miraculously gives us the ability to restore those things to normal, because otherwise we'll be as helpless to fix Omo as we were to fix the children earlier. If it instead damaged something with that whip-like motion, however, we might be able to repair it. Examining a healthy vitality network more completely may help-- we might be able to get Eko to cooperate with some carefully-worded arguments. We're certainly desperate enough to try it.
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Dani

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-27
« Reply #1994 on: April 14, 2015, 06:15:03 am »

+1 for impair. In the legs. Also tell Eko to stand down because Abjuration will chase off the creature and we'll have to find it again while lugging around our ranger's empty body. Also also we don't want him to interrupt our spells as well.

It's a feeling of closeness that is strongest when you focus on it's Necromantic Sight and what it feels, but weakest when considering what it sees and what its body is. You sense that Command Undead is possible, but you do not yet know enough about it to make the spell resolve.
If we don't have enough time for that, try commanding it while using focusing on its Necromantic sight and what it feels, variations on that, maybe a body that isn't what we saw externally? A crystal or other small object at the "head" of the golem? We probably have to imagine something that can be turned into a golem, from how we commanded that rope doll from forever ago. Definitely don't try focusing on its light sight again. The command undead can wait for when the construct is unable to flee our line of sight, since it might take a while to find the correct empathy.

Also, after seeing Kiros' spell list in part 25, I conclude that Detect Undead doesn't work on golems. Are there any other occurrences where golems are not treated as undead by Order magic? The rope golem counted as 'undead' for the Command Undead spell, though.

Alternative "plan": Steal all of its Vitality and shove that into Omo. Party gains another elf with countless voices in his head telling him what to do.
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