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Author Topic: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-36 Decisions, Decisions  (Read 321036 times)

Angle

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2025 on: April 27, 2015, 12:48:32 pm »

First, have Eko set up a ward around us - there might be more of these. Then try and cast command undead.

Imagine yourself as a cold machine, with only one purpose - hunting souls. Imagine time passing - years, decades, centuries (If applicable).

Then, if we can get the spell to resolve, first ask the thing if there are any more like it, and what it's previous orders were. Learn everything you can about how it works, and then see if you can get it to reverse it's ability.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 12:50:29 pm by Angle »
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2026 on: April 27, 2015, 02:53:03 pm »

If we manage to command undead, then the first thing we should do is use the added empathy command undead gives us to sense the body of the construct (both mundane and the part made out of necromantic energy) to get an idea of its abilities.

And we should not order it anything, so that its original orders are not overwritten. We should look at what its current orders are and what memories and mental images it has stored for those orders. Unless it looks like it's hurting Omo's soul, in which case we should order it to stop.

The above should give us an idea of what it can do and if it has any inherent capabilities and what those are. Then we can judge if we can use those abilities to help Omo (like, for example, ordering it to use the rope attack in reverse).

If that doesn't work, then we can work on maintaining the necromantic energy holding Omo's soul intact and slowly and carefully try moving it around, first inside the creature and if that works, then opening a hole in the creature's "necromantic carapace" and letting the soul out and guiding it into Omo.



@Angle: We know that necromantic constructs tend to not be very... human like. They usually do not have thoughts of their own and do not have any memories beyond what they need to fulfil their orders. Sure, this might be a more complex construct but we should not count on it being more complex than it has to be. I'm pretty sure great necromancers follow the KISS principle.

It's better to imagine what it feels, since we know that we could feel the dirt in our rope golem. So it should be able to feel its entire body, the dirt on it, things like that. And it should probably be able to move parts of its body and parts of its necromantic network, so we should account for that, the rope thing especially. And possibly try multiple possibilities for the two sensor orbs, configurations such as ears, balance sensors, long range soul sensors and whatever else you can come up with. Although I guess imagining its possible orders couldn't hurt.



Did we see any difference in Eko's vitality as he was casting the spell? Not important right now, but it might give us more insight about how mana or order magic works.



It's a bit worrying that Eko said that the soul feels damaged. Hopefully it's the XP-loss kind of damage and not the skill/memory-loss kind of damage. Especially if it erases the memory of us telling him we're a necromancer. Travelling with two people who think we're a life mage would be hard. And the fact that we could fail at this is even more worrying.

We should look into making a necromantic shield of sorts to protect us and our allies from necromantic spells, if we go hunting for more of these creatures (assuming more exist). Or maybe Eko will just share the info about what the creature is (or maybe bring the creature back alive, although that would be hard for us since it would paint us as a hero but also put us under scrutiny) and others can take care of hunting them now that they are nothing more supernatural than magic. Although I would like to investigate further into the forest, in case there is a mother creature or a soul repository. I suppose reading the creature's mind would help in that regard.

Then again, necromantic shields would also be good if we go up against other necromancers, so they're probably a good investment/avenue of research. Not to mention the potential for necromantic weapons that deal direct damage to necromancy and vitality that research might yield.
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Andres

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2027 on: April 27, 2015, 04:39:15 pm »

How does this thing even run? Where does it get its energy from? Considering the containment method of the souls it seems that it would need to expend energy to keep it inside, but why would it do so in the first place? Why not just release the souls and avoid the unnecessary expenditure?
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2028 on: April 27, 2015, 05:09:55 pm »

Why would it need to expend energy? It's just using necromantic energy to hold the soul. It moves the necromantic energy like a limb. It doesn't expend energy to do so.

As for why to keep the souls, there are many reasons. Consider the fact that this was made during a period when humans were fighting a guerrilla war against the necromancer, using hiding and hit and run tactics and recruiting civilians to counter the necromantic army's superiority in arms and numbers. Souls, assuming they retain at least part of the owner's memories, could be a very efficient way to "interrogate" people and learn about where the resistance is hiding and what its plans are. We know that necromancers can probably read minds or do something similar.

Or maybe the creature is using the souls to help repair damage done to it. Maybe it can use it to acquire not only vitality but also mana.

Or maybe the necromancer could use souls to increase his power, maybe they have something special that can grant them more power. Or maybe he can simply more easily use their vitality that way. We know that the elven homeland was destroyed by having all the vitality siphoned out of it and some say that all the vitality Balkoth took from out was used to increase his power and the size of his army.

Or maybe they can be used to do things like  dreamscaping, since minds and souls are one of the things that are guaranteed to be connected to other planes like the dream plane. Maybe he was planning to use them in some sort of dark ritual to further increase his power or access another realm, perhaps to in order to summon something.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 05:11:43 pm by Parisbre56 »
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2029 on: April 29, 2015, 05:51:15 pm »

Command the creature and have it reverse the soul collection process on Omo. While it is doing so, personally attempt to keep the soul from dissipating.

My other idea is to Try to move the soul container intact back to Omo, which would possibly turn him into some sort of self-possessed living/undead hybrid...

Oh, and attempt to study the soul container, it is a valuable insight into soul manipulation.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2030 on: May 02, 2015, 08:32:41 am »

Oh, and if it looks like the soul bottle is missing vitality or if Omo's soul vitality looks low after we transfer it, add some of ours into it. Try to do it via touch if it looks appropriate. And as always, if we're running out of mana, drink that potion.
Hm... Wonder if the thing that normally holds the soul in the body, the "natural soul bottle" is naturally occurring life magic or simply biology...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 01:55:54 pm by Parisbre56 »
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2031 on: May 02, 2015, 01:21:51 pm »

Oh, and if it looks like the soul bottle is missing vitality or if Omo's soul vitality looks low after we transfer it, add some of ours into it. Try to do it via touch if it looks appropriate. And as always, if we're running out of mana, drink that potion./b]
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Gwythur

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2032 on: May 05, 2015, 10:46:10 am »

If we manage to command undead, then the first thing we should do is use the added empathy command undead gives us to sense the body of the construct (both mundane and the part made out of necromantic energy) to get an idea of its abilities.

And we should not order it anything, so that its original orders are not overwritten. We should look at what its current orders are and what memories and mental images it has stored for those orders. Unless it looks like it's hurting Omo's soul, in which case we should order it to stop.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, for two reasons:

(1) This is probably our best bet for learning about souls without murdering another sentient being.  We may be able to learn how to restore or transfer the soul back to Omo on our own with more understanding.  If we can't do it, can the golem restore souls as well as take them?  We may be able to restore the two soulless children back in town.  Eko tells us that with proper care of the children's bodies, they will remain in their current state, so they can be cured once the knight leaves.

(2) Using our empathic bond while controlling the golem is the only link we currently have for breaking the curse of the forest, and learning more about the mind of the necromancer who created it.  Before overwriting the golem with our own orders, try to learn more about the curse/golem.  Are its orders more complex than we have previously tried, like those of the zombie in the temple?  Are there more of these golems?  Does it have a lair?  Are the captured souls stored somewhere, or consumed to fuel the necromantic energies in the golem?

We may need to have Eko distracted while we use necromancy to study the golem.  He doesn't seem to have noticed what we've done so far, but commanding the golem may be a more obvious display of necromancy.  Suggest that Eko do what he can to make Omo comfortable, and ask him to start setting up a campsite.  We're probably going to be here a while.  Explain that we are going to try to magically probe the golem if Eko asks.  Be vague.  Maybe Eko didn't learn his spells spontaneously the way we did, but he's likely to have heard of the phenomenon.

Further, I vote we stay in the forest as long as Eko isn't going to be missed.  I'd like to avoid confrontation with that knight as much as possible.  I also vote that we do not, under any circumstances, take the soul-stealing golem to town, just in case that needs to be said.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 11:13:10 am by Gwythur »
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monk12

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-29
« Reply #2033 on: May 08, 2015, 01:10:37 pm »

establish empathy. do this by picturing us as the creature, hunting souls in accordance with its directive. if we can empathize with a rope, we can empathize with a soul stealing construct.

then using emotions and mental images order it to return omo's soul
If we manage to command undead, then the first thing we should do is use the added empathy command undead gives us to sense the body of the construct (both mundane and the part made out of necromantic energy) to get an idea of its abilities.

And we should not order it anything, so that its original orders are not overwritten. We should look at what its current orders are and what memories and mental images it has stored for those orders. Unless it looks like it's hurting Omo's soul, in which case we should order it to stop.

It's better to imagine what it feels, since we know that we could feel the dirt in our rope golem.
   


   "Then you can save him! The monster doesn't win this time!"
   You walk closer to the construct, kneeling down beside it. "I think I can, Eko. Whatever you see, don't interfere unless I ask, alright?"
   Eko heaves a heavy sigh, leaning against a nearby tree. "As you say, Nym. Just... defeat this foul Necromancy. I was prepared to die to stop this monstrosity, but now... I wasn't prepared to stand by and watch it claim another victim."

   You prepare to cast Command Undead once more. You think back to your first attempt, before Omo was taken. You felt you were close to merging with its awareness, but had no knowledge of its body. You have a much better idea of that now, however; a metal carapace with four working legs driving up and down, dragging one useless leg behind, a head to the fore and some kind of soul-sac in the body. You exert your will, and Command Undead.

   You gain the expected doublevision associated with Command Undead, but something is wrong. It's not just that the construct is blind; it has some senses, including awareness of its own body and another sense you can't grasp right now. Rather, your awareness of the construct is murky and uncertain, and it does not reveal its mind to you or respond to your command.

   When you attempt to tighten your grip on the mind of the construct, you can feel something pushing you back.

   ... No matter how you fumble and strain, your attempts to bring the creature under your control are thwarted by another presence, one that feels separate from the construct itself. You can sense it dimly when it opposes you directly- surprise, fear, anger, and some other loathsome feeling you can only express as a cockroach skittering in the corners of your mind- but not clearly, or for long; this other presence is too deft and powerful for you to latch onto, and it fights like a badger in its den. You quickly feel your own hold on the construct weakening, and despite your own clumsy defense of your willpower the construct is peeled out of your tenuous grasp like candy being taken by a stern adult.

   You step back hesitantly as the spell dissolves, bewildered by what you experienced. The whole encounter took only seconds, and despite your failure you learned a lot. The construct doesn't have ears, for one thing; you sense that those bundles of vitality are sensory in nature, but they do something you couldn't access without full control. Your soul-sac hypothesis was bolstered by what you could sense of it; or rather what you couldn't sense. It was the only part of the construct you had zero awareness of, as though it wasn't even part of the construct. You get the feeling that it was definitely not the source of the other presence... a worrying prospect.

   The construct does not cease its attempts to escape. Eko is clearly anxious and impatient, looking to you for any kind of update. Omo remains unconscious and soulless. What now?



Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 09:03:07 pm by monk12 »
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endlessblaze

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-30
« Reply #2034 on: May 08, 2015, 01:16:08 pm »

Try AGIAN. Attempt to communicate with the presence.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-30
« Reply #2035 on: May 08, 2015, 01:17:23 pm »

Command undead once more, Attempt to imitate the presence through empathy, basically you are playing copycat with the other presence.
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Angle

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-30
« Reply #2036 on: May 08, 2015, 01:39:28 pm »

Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-30
« Reply #2037 on: May 08, 2015, 01:46:47 pm »

Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.
Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-30
« Reply #2038 on: May 08, 2015, 01:51:37 pm »

Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.
Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."

+1 and attempt to communicate with the undead through your command undead spell.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-30
« Reply #2039 on: May 08, 2015, 02:06:16 pm »

Now this is interesting, but the implications are worrying. Do we have any sense of the location/source of the other presence? It could be that it wasn't just a lair it was fleeing to, but its master as well. It follows then that if the presence is away from us, and necromantic in nature, maybe try to command it while we're all inside of Eko's ward (or a new one if it's too far away). The ward's shielding effect might be enough to disrupt or remove whatever outside influence is keeping us from taking control of the construct.

Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.
Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."

+1
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 02:08:54 pm by Baffler »
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