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Author Topic: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-36 Decisions, Decisions  (Read 402435 times)

Andres

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2085 on: July 16, 2015, 10:54:50 pm »

Ask him how to move a soul from its artificial container into its rightful body. Ask him how to do the reverse, taking a soul from its rightful body and putting it in an artificial container.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2086 on: July 16, 2015, 11:48:15 pm »

Ask him about souls, but don't go straight to it. Start with something about necromancy that could be related to souls, and just make the conversation wander around a bunch, so we learn what we're interested in without telling him that we're interested. Let's start with golems. What they are, how they work, etc, etc. Talk about making them smarter, or more conscious, and see if we can have the conversation meander onto the topic of souls. Perhaps have a few tangents for other interesting things. Talk some history, while we're at it? The golgothans, the original elf groves, that one famous necromancer, etc, etc.
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Iituem

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2087 on: July 16, 2015, 11:54:49 pm »

Trade questions - s/he(?) gets a question, you get a question.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2088 on: July 17, 2015, 12:00:23 am »

Ask what happens to souls used by necromancy. Think about your own beliefs of existence after death. A direct line to a god, skill at manipulating souls, this is the person to ask if the afterlife is your thing...
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Gwythur

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2089 on: July 17, 2015, 01:28:35 pm »

Be careful.  Fale certainly has ulterior motives to these questions.  Even the most simple seeming thing, "I'll settle for learning more about the elves than I know now" may be a prelude to invasion.

That map seems interesting, and is in plain sight.  Take a closer look.

So much we need to learn, but this is a dangerous tutor.  Best if we keep any questions vague, and offer little as to our intentions.  We could ask about souls in a roundabout way.  Perhaps we could point out the flaws of shambling corpses and mindless golems, and ask about disembodied souls - spirits, spectres, and ghosts.  Then ask about the bond between soul and body and how the two may be separated or relinked.  We could even ask about possession.

Getting Fale to brag seems like it would be pretty easy as well.  Maybe we could get some information about the current state of affairs in the world, especially in regard to Curo Nightroar and the Pirate King.  We could also ask about the history of Balkoth's time, maybe even with direct questions about the conquering of the Sacred Grove, or the curse on the Forest of Aloclesno.

Fale seems to be offering overtures.  I think we could ask for a gesture of good faith.  Fale must have access to an extensive library.  I say we ask for a necromantic spellbook so that we may further our learning.
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Ehndras

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2090 on: July 17, 2015, 02:00:38 pm »

Wow, this still exists! Is it possible to jump in at some point? :)
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2091 on: July 17, 2015, 03:05:50 pm »

Wow, this still exists! Is it possible to jump in at some point? :)

It's a suggestion game, so you can jump in whenever. Just make a suggestion.
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ydeve

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-31
« Reply #2092 on: July 19, 2015, 11:57:58 am »

   Eko raises one hand calmingly. "The wards will only disrupt Necromancy which attempts to cross the boundary. My temple is protected by a Sanctuary; I had to dispel it to get the zombie into the basement, but I was able to reform it around the creature with no ill effect, as you saw yourself."

...
 
" If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."

Something weird is going on here. Eko claims his temple was protected by a Sanctuary, which should have prevented any necromancer from entering. Yet we entered just fine. So either Monk made a mistake, or some necromancers can pass unopposed through a Sanctuary wall. Maybe it's because we're an elf, with natural affinity to Life magic that cancels somewhat with the Death to the Sanctuary. In that case, Fale Packunion might be able to walk in as well.

   Fale seems disconcerted for a moment, but the smile is back soon enough. "Well, I was thinking that we got off on the wrong foot the other night. Let's not allow politics to get between us; us Necromancers have to stick together. We all serve the will of Marko in our own way." M is false

... 

 "Ahh, I didn't bring you here to argue. Either you'll see that I'm right in the end, or I will be forced to acknowledge your superior path. Listen, the way I see it, we can help each other out. I'm the best Necromancer in the world, and I've got a direct line to Marko. I'd like to count myself your colleague, at least, and I'd like to more know about you in that case."

Either he's lying to make us more comfortable, or (more probable, I think) he really means this. This means that in his eyes, we aren't enemies. So lets make us of this. Ask him all sorts of questions about Necromancy, in order of importance:

Restoring Omo
Souls, what they are, what uses there are for them (after you've taken them out of someone)
Golem creation, how to make a useful golem, more complex golem "organs"

When he asks for information on us, have him reciprocate with what his own plans are. He understands we don't trust him, and he needs to give us good reason/put up a show of good faith before we can reciprocate much.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2093 on: July 19, 2015, 12:27:33 pm »

Fale first appeared as a female human. He was surprised we were an elf and seems to know little about them. Furthermore, Omo claimed Fale sounded dwarven. So he's very likely not an elf, or at least he's not an elf from the same forest as us.

He's a manipulator. He'll do anything to gain more info and put himself in a more advantageous position. We don't know if his end is as noble as he claims, but we know that he will use any means necessary to achieve that goal. So it's better to treat everything he does with suspicion. For all we know, he knows much less about some aspects of necromancy than we do. Or he could know much more. He could know about the curse, meaning that any mention of souls could alert him to our location and next thing we know we're knee deep in zombies. Might be better to have him mention souls, steer the conversation towards the subject but have him breech it. Maybe start by asking about how he became a necromancer, how his powers first manifested, and work from there.

On the other hand, the dream itself gave us some other clues. It told us that Omo's soul is in a hole under that tree. That could simply be a form of emotion and memory manipulation inherent to dreamscaping due to its nature as a dream (it reflects the problems we are facing, what we're concerned about) or trick to get us to like/trust Fale. Or it could actually be an indication provided by some other entity (fate? a god?) that the best way to help Omo is to go to that hole under that tree. So perhaps it would be better if we did not approach the subject directly, did not "make a deal with the devil" but instead tried to find a way to scam Fale out of as much info as we can while giving up trivial or outdated info or things he already knows or could easily learn.

ydeve

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2094 on: July 19, 2015, 09:46:20 pm »

He already knows exactly where we are. Remember the memory "tag" he left on the golem? we can be 99% sure he's the one controlling the golem in the forest. Given that, he also already knows Omo's state and that we would want to restore him. The truth is, we have almost no sensitive information to be afraid of leaking to him. I'm not suggesting we make a "deal" or pact with him. Just the opposite. He just acknowledged that we walk different paths and that it's ok with him. And he offered to give us knowledge that can help us down our path. As long as there are minimal strings involved, I say we take it, because we're really in a bind here. As long as it is clear we aren't going to be helping him along his "world domination" schemes. But skitting around the bush isn't going to get us any of the help/info that we need.

In the end, both he and us want the same thing: the world safe for Necromancers. He thinks the only way is world domination. We're looking for a different way, which he said he's ok with. The way I see this campaign, the objective isn't really "defeat the evil necromancers," but rather "find a way to bring peace to the world." (Which cannot happen as long as everyone kills any necromancer on sight)

tldr: He's not saying we join forces. He's offering us help as a third party. Take the help but make it clear we aren't going to conquer the world for him. Our goal: finding an alternative to conquering everyone that lets necromancers live safely.
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Parisbre56

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2095 on: July 19, 2015, 10:55:50 pm »

Did anybody else catch that hidden message? Coupled with the name distortion, I wonder what that means...

He already knows exactly where we are. Remember the memory "tag" he left on the golem? we can be 99% sure he's the one controlling the golem in the forest.
The first time he contacted us, we saw a dream of the pool we used to fish, back at the elven forest, along with some necromantic fish. Right after we left our home and experienced the stress of telling Omo about necromancy. If the beginning of the dream was created by Fale, then that would mean he has access to our memories and thus has no need to ask us questions. He should had known much more about us and the elves.

I'm pretty sure the first part of the dream is either related to some other entity, perhaps some god or other magical entity, or is just that: a dream related to what we are experiencing, what is making us anxious, combined with whatever necromantic energy or spell trigger is making us susceptible to being contacted through dreamscaping. (No idea what the trigger could be? Maybe it's related to the people close to us? Them knowing about us being a necromancer? Them getting hurt? Maybe it's just related to our emotional state? Maybe a coincidence?)

I'm inclined to think it's the second thing (perhaps combined with a bit of the first thing), given what Nym said: "I was dreaming and now I'm here." meaning that the first part was a dream, or something like it, while the second part is not a normal dream.

Irrelevant, but the fact that we are participating/being subjected to dreamscaping while inside a sanctuary is also an important piece of information. Either dreamscaping is not stricly Necromantic or it occurs through some dimension not covered by the sanctuary (perhaps our minds travel to another plane like the ones Eko mentioned while dreaming?) or it occurs because of some power for which sanctuaries are no problem, like for example a god.

Or the spell was powerful enough to break or evade the sanctuary, but I doubt that. Still, we should check the sanctuary tomorrow, see if it is still up or if it has failed.

Quote
Given that, he also already knows Omo's state and that we would want to restore him. The truth is, we have almost no sensitive information to be afraid of leaking to him.
That would be true if you are suggesting he already has access to all of the contents of our mind, but not otherwise.

Quote
I'm not suggesting we make a "deal" or pact with him. Just the opposite. He just acknowledged that we walk different paths and that it's ok with him. And he offered to give us knowledge that can help us down our path. As long as there are minimal strings involved, I say we take it, because we're really in a bind here. As long as it is clear we aren't going to be helping him along his "world domination" schemes. But skitting around the bush isn't going to get us any of the help/info that we need.

In the end, both he and us want the same thing: the world safe for Necromancers. He thinks the only way is world domination. We're looking for a different way, which he said he's ok with. The way I see this campaign, the objective isn't really "defeat the evil necromancers," but rather "find a way to bring peace to the world." (Which cannot happen as long as everyone kills any necromancer on sight)

tldr: He's not saying we join forces. He's offering us help as a third party. Take the help but make it clear we aren't going to conquer the world for him. Our goal: finding an alternative to conquering everyone that lets necromancers live safely.
Does he really think the best way is world domination? Or has Morka brainwashed him into thinking that, perhaps using whatever dark emotions and bad experiences he has to convert him into a fanatic for his cause? I mean, the world is pretty large, it's hard to think one man would wake up one day and say "Oh, I just happened to be a very powerful mage, one of those that rarely occur. And I'm Death-element-aligned. So I'm going to raise an army out of my friends and kill and/or enslave everyone on the planet just so that me and a couple of other guys have fun.", let alone so many during the time after the Golgothan war. It's much more likely that they were contacted (or even created/empowered in part) by Morka and then manipulated into trying to conquer the world and causing more death. Or, I dunno, whatever else a death god would want.

Anyway, if those are his intentions, then we can easily ask him to prove them. Say that we are not interested in world domination. And that while we may have no reason to oppose him, we have no desire to help him either, no reason to indirectly risk hurting people who have not hurt us, no reason to risk him hurting our friends or family, all those people we know long enough to know their daily routines, people we have spent all our lives with. So we won't give him any information about those subjects. But we are willing to talk about the basics of necromancy and magic in general. And that if helping another necromancer is all he cares about, then he should accept that and help us, thus earning our more of our trust. And then we can start our inquiry but in such a way that we reveal as little as possible.

Not really the best way to go about this but better than laying all our cards on the table.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 10:59:15 pm by Parisbre56 »
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2096 on: July 19, 2015, 11:21:18 pm »

It is plausible that Fale is the root of this local curse. The more interesting thing is that the curse has tried to communicate with us. It told us where it is, and that we could go meet with it. I would imagine that a curse bound to the forest stuck farming stray wanderers for sustenance would likely be extremely bored and probably would like an unbound necromancer's assistance to convert the curse into a more palatable form. I expect that the vision of the source of the curse was either a friendly communication or an accidental slip.

...
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ydeve

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2097 on: July 20, 2015, 12:57:37 am »


Quote
Given that, he also already knows Omo's state and that we would want to restore him. The truth is, we have almost no sensitive information to be afraid of leaking to him.
That would be true if you are suggesting he already has access to all of the contents of our mind, but not otherwise.

I'm suggesting he's in control of the curse in the forest, ie in control of the golem that took Omo's soul. Thus, he would already know about Omo. The reason I think this is the necromancer controlling the construct withdrew when we tried to control it (he probably could have continued to maintain control), leaving behind the "hollow tree" message. Then we dream about said tree and Furor offers to help us.

Does he really think the best way is world domination? Or has Morka brainwashed him into thinking that, perhaps using whatever dark emotions and bad experiences he has to convert him into a fanatic for his cause? I mean, the world is pretty large, it's hard to think one man would wake up one day and say "Oh, I just happened to be a very powerful mage, one of those that rarely occur. And I'm Death-element-aligned. So I'm going to raise an army out of my friends and kill and/or enslave everyone on the planet just so that me and a couple of other guys have fun.", let alone so many during the time after the Golgothan war. It's much more likely that they were contacted (or even created/empowered in part) by Morka and then manipulated into trying to conquer the world and causing more death. Or, I dunno, whatever else a death god would want.

I guess I'm theory-spinning here. But with regards to "Death" and the god, here is what we know:

The god of the Golgothans was called Golgoth. Morka seems to be a different, newer diety (or maybe an older one we didn't know about). The point being, he isn't the same god that "ordered" the Golgothans to attack the world.

Necromancy, or "Death" magic, isn't actually about death. It's about controlling vitality to create artificial constructs. It's equally the magic of "Artificers" as the magic of "Death." There could be a lot of things a "Death" god wants other than death. Death magic is the magic that could unlock what we consider modern technology. Death magic is the magic of robotics. Raising the dead is common mostly because it's easier to use a dead body than to create an artificial one of your own.

Basically, Death magic is not evil-alligned, to use DnD terms. It's a lawful magic, where good/evil is decided by the user. It stands to reason that there are Death gods out there that are at least Neutral. Not to say that Morka is or isn't evil. Just opening the possibility that he's might be amoral, not evil.

Anyway, if those are his intentions, then we can easily ask him to prove them. Say that we are not interested in world domination. And that while we may have no reason to oppose him, we have no desire to help him either, no reason to indirectly risk hurting people who have not hurt us, no reason to risk him hurting our friends or family, all those people we know long enough to know their daily routines, people we have spent all our lives with. So we won't give him any information about those subjects. But we are willing to talk about the basics of necromancy and magic in general. And that if helping another necromancer is all he cares about, then he should accept that and help us, thus earning our more of our trust. And then we can start our inquiry but in such a way that we reveal as little as possible.
+1
This was the idea I was trying (poorly) to communicate. If Morka just wants a (semi-)stable niche for necromancy in the world, his "priest" (?) shouldn't mind too much if we work for that goal in a non-evil way. So he should be willing to help us. If not, well, we're still in exactly the same position as before, haven't lost much.


On the topic of dreamscaping, I think it's probably non-spacial like you suggested, so the ward doesn't cover it. But it doesn't hurt to double-check in the morning.

Also, we're definitely going to have to reveal ourself to Eko soon. Hopefully Fale teaches us how to restore Omo first so we have Omo to vouch for us.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 01:00:35 am by ydeve »
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RAM

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2098 on: July 20, 2015, 02:11:35 am »

I wouldn't fight it if we wanted to tell Eko now. They are much more experienced than us and we could use all the help with the theory here that we can get.
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Re: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-32
« Reply #2099 on: July 20, 2015, 09:19:01 am »

I wouldn't fight it if we wanted to tell Eko now. They are much more experienced than us and we could use all the help with the theory here that we can get.
Yeah. We're gonna have to tell him eventually, and I'm pretty sure he at least suspects something's up, though he might think it's just Life magic. We should be gentle about it, though.
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