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Author Topic: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.  (Read 2248 times)

Eктωρ

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Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« on: December 02, 2011, 07:59:38 pm »

I was fiddling with the raws, wondering how to make DF muskets, so I opened the weapon raws

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000]    <What does this means
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:1000]  <What does this means
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]  <What does this means (does it relate to the size a creature has to be to use it one handed?)
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]        <What does this means
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

And this

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[NAME:bolt:bolts]
[CLASS:BOLT]
[SIZE:150]   < How does size affects the deadliness of the ammo?
[ATTACK:EDGE:2:2000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000] <What does this means?

Can I alter the reload speed of weapons?
How would this work:

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MUSKET]
[NAME:musket:muskets]
[SIZE:600]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1500]    (this would shoot stronger than a crossbow right? Early muskets didn't shoot that stronger than they did)
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:3000]  (this changes the speed right? A musket bullet would travel near the speed of sound.)
[TWO_HANDED:77500]   (used pike stats)
[MINIMUM_SIZE:52500]  (used long sword stats
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]       
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET]
[NAME:bullet:bulletss]
[CLASS:BULLET]
[SIZE:10]
[ATTACK:EDGE:1:4000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]



Also, how do I make a custom reaction to allow it to be built?


[REACTION:MAKE_MUSKET]
      [NAME:Build a musket]
      [BUILDING:CRAFTSMAN:CUSTOM_Z]
      [REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:INORGANIC]
      [PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MUSKET:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:metal]
      [FUEL]
      [SKILL:BOWYER]

[REACTION:FORGE_BULLETS]
      [NAME:Forge a bullet]
      [BUILDING:CRAFSTMAN::CUSTOM_SHIFT_Z]
      [REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:INORGANIC]
      [PRODUCT:100:25:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:metal]
      [FUEL]
      [SKILL:BOWYER]



I think it would be hard to make the musket more efficient, if there was internal bleeding it would be a monster, but it's just a regular weapon now. Maybe it's better against armoured folks.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 09:25:33 pm by Eктωρ »
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GaxkangtheUnbound

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2011, 09:25:00 pm »

Might I refer you to the wiki?
And here's some help with the [ATTACK:<blahblah>] tag:
The second part  determines how the attack works. EDGED is for things like swords, axe blades, etc. BLUNT is for everything else.
The third part determines contact area.
The fourth part determines penetration size.
The fifth and sixth parts are cosmetic; they are what shows up as the attack in the combat log.
The final part is the velocity multiplier. The higher a multiplier, the more supersonic something will be. Whips have a ridiculously high multiplier, having four times the speed of a battle axe strike for one swing.

Try experimenting in arena mode to see how your weapons fare. If you find that it is crazy strong, you may want to tone it down (or keep it, if you're the type that likes ridiculously deadly weapons).

EDIT:Fixed some wrong statements. I probably should have mentioned that these were speculations.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 10:01:12 pm by GaxkangtheUnbound »
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Eктωρ

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 09:29:48 pm »

I've changed the maxvel and the strength both to 3000. I also made the bullet a blunt weapon.
The problem with it, is that it can, on the best case, chip a bone and make people unconscious, it doesn't make them bleed out or anything.
You can always strike a headshot and stuff.

Yup, useless against armour. Making the bullets blunted make them worthless.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 09:55:24 pm by Eктωρ »
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Putnam

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 09:51:17 pm »

Might I refer you to the wiki?
And here's some help with the [ATTACK:<blahblah>] tag:
The second part  determines how the attack works. EDGED is for things like swords, axe blades, etc. BLUNT is for everything else.
The third part determines contact area. The smaller a contact area, the more likely it is to damage organs. Whips are like supersonic hammers because of their incredibly low contact area.
The fourth part determines penetration size. The smaller the size, the more supersonic it is. Whips also have a very low penetration size.
The fifth and sixth parts are cosmetic; they are what shows up as the attack in the combat log.
The final part is the velocity multiplier. The higher a multiplier, the more supersonic something will be. Whips have a ridiculously high multiplier, having four times the speed of a battle axe strike for one swing.

Try experimenting in arena mode to see how your weapons fare. If you find that it is crazy strong, you may want to tone it down (or keep it, if you're the type that likes ridiculously deadly weapons).

Not quite. For one, whips don't use penetration size at all, as they are blunt weapons. The main thing that makes them supersonic as a whole is the velocity multiplier, at a ridiculous 5000.

Eктωρ

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2011, 09:57:07 pm »

I'm trying to tinker with maxvel and shootforce to see what happens.
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Putnam

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2011, 10:03:08 pm »

I tested MAXVEL in the arena recently and it didn't seem to do anything at all; both projectiles, which were identical in every way, traveled at the exact same speed.

Eктωρ

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 10:09:25 pm »

I think maxvel only has a value when raised together with shootforce. I pumped both to 4000, and it's much, much more effective now, in unarmored things it just rips right through and destroys any internal organ it finds. Is this realistic? I think it is.
I tested against a fully clad in steel foe, and it didn't rip right through, but it usually still tears the skin and chips bones through the armour. It can bruise skin even through full candy armour. It can perfurate its extremities (hands, feet) too.


I've pitted 40 musketeers against 40 halberdiers in arena and the halberdiers won almost unscathed. The muskets are nigh useless.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 10:48:50 pm by Eктωρ »
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BeforeLifer

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 11:26:37 pm »

Why dont you add a Bayonet then? And remember muskets are ment for ranged combat lol.
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jaxy15

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 02:39:59 am »

You don't need reactions.
Just let dwarves make the weapon and ammo, and bam, you can forge them at the forge.
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Eктωρ

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 10:30:58 am »

Why dont you add a Bayonet then? And remember muskets are ment for ranged combat lol.

Muskets didn't have bayonets. I didn't put them in melee, I pitted htem in range combat, the musketeers fired twice or so before the halberdiers got to them. If they were real muskets, they would have died in the tens, from blood loss and stuff. Firearms like this will only be effective when more realistic blood loss and pain systems are added, right now, people can run around with tens of bullets in their bodies.

Which leads me to other question, can I alter the pain resistance and blood loss that creatures have?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2011, 10:39:43 am »

You don't need reactions.
Just let dwarves make the weapon and ammo, and bam, you can forge them at the forge.
Possible, but A. some people like having complicated gun-making processes, B. you can then make guns and ammo fromwood or bone, and C. you can't make lead bullets.
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Putnam

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2011, 01:27:16 pm »

You could just add [ITEMS_AMMO] to lead.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2011, 07:19:48 pm »

Leaves A and B, though.
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Tiruin

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2011, 11:00:30 pm »

I've heard that the Corrosion Mod deals with weapons of this sort, just that pistols are better than rifles though but the values are realistic and the codes [they are codes right?] for making guns and bullets are all in there.

Just a suggestion of course.
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UristMcHuman

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Re: Of Crossbows, pain and silver bolts.
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2011, 12:55:13 pm »

The guns I've modded in used [SHOOT_FORCE/MAXVEL:30000]. Their bullets inflicted bruised muscle and bruised innards through an iron breastplate.
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