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[Eктωρ]

Let's try that.

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET]
[NAME:bullet:bullets]
[CLASS:BULLET]
[SIZE:10]
[ATTACK:EDGE:1:15000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:5000] <Pike penetration values. I'm not really sure if this affects the bullet as a projectile, also the bullet now has a max speed of 5000, which equals a whip. EDIT: Didn't work.

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MUSKET]
[NAME:musket:muskets]
[SIZE:600]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:10000]   <testing with this shoot value
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:50000] < to be equal to the max speed of the bulletx10
[TWO_HANDED:77500]   
[MINIMUM_SIZE:52500] 
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]       
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

Hm, it bounces out of armor. Maybe NO_SUB is supposed to be lowered?
I don't know what the fuck is happening. The bullets just decided they no longer pierce armour no matter what stats I give them.

[Anathema]

Maybe try increasing the bullet's SIZE? I think this has a direct impact on the 'force' the weapon hits with, but it shouldn't affect the actual size of the wound (this is instead determined by the contact area, i.e. ATTACK:EDGE:[contact area here]). So with size 150 (i.e. bolt-sized) and your current contact area setting of 1, bullets should hit as hard as a larger weapon, but create a small penetrating wound.

Note that it's crucial to make it an 'edged' attack to get any kind of penetration/bleeding, blunt attacks will only bruise and damage internal organs, I don't think that's the effect you want for bullets. Edged is what DF uses to mean any kind of attack that breaks the skin; high contact area/low penetration gives you a slashing attack, low contact area/high penetration gives you a stabbing attack, which is what DF uses for crossbow bolts and is the closest we can get to bullet wounds.

Of course it doesn't make logical sense to have edged bullets as big as crossbow bolts, but it may be the best way to coax the game into giving the right results. This is all assuming my understanding of the combat calculations is correct, haven't done any testing with ammunition modding.

[Eктωρ]

It was like that last time and it worked. Well, let's try. Yeah, it's tearing fat and chipping bone now. I'm going to test it with the size of a blowgun dart, but with two times the speed.
The blows push people backwards now
It's a little too strong, but I think it works almost like a IRL musket would.
Oh yes, thanks.

I wonder how I can make it fuck internal organs up instead of only bruising. I'm going to raise penetration to see what works. I doubled penetration too, it now tears internal organs. I think this is ok. Do you guys think it would it's too overpowered?
I've pitted the 40 musketeers agains 40 halberdiers, and the musketeers won with one casualty.

The muskets are quite satisfatory. I'm now going to make a world based on the 15th century 
Edit: Also made wood necessary for making muskets.

Maybe I can make some siege cannons!

[UristMcHuman]

Maybe I can make some siege cannons!

Sadly, siege engines cannot be messed with yet.

The closest you can get is what I think is a size of 2000, a two-handed requirement of 100000, a minimum size of 57200, and a shoot force/max velocity of 50000. Oh, and don't forget the massive cannonballs, too. Those should surely be blunt, and have a massive contact area. (at least 60000)

[Eктωρ]

That's like a bombard. I like it. It would be a little game breaking though. A squad of goblin crossbowman arrives bearing 3 bombards. You're fucked. They would be cheap since they would have the cost of a crossbow. I don't know.

Exderp me. You only need to raise material size to raise value.

[arghy]

This sounds friggin awesome, muskets and cannons for all! could you make the cannon like the catapult/Batista? more range and damage and it requires metal ammo. I'd love to have a brace of cannons firing down range at a the huge sieges in genesis mod. Watching goblins get fragged with body parts flying everywhere while ilithid voidmasters block the shots with its mind powers.

[Eктωρ]

I could make bombards like the guy said. But I won't now, right now I'm working with those three types:

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PISTOL]
[NAME:pistol:pistols]
[SIZE:200]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:4000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:500000]
[TWO_HANDED:27500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5000]]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MUSKET]
[NAME:musket:muskets]
[SIZE:600]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:10000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:500000]
[TWO_HANDED:77500]   
[MINIMUM_SIZE:52500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]       
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BLUNDERBUSS
[NAME:blunderbuss:blunderbusses]
[SIZE:300]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BULLET_B]
[SHOOT_FORCE:20000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:5000000]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:8]     
[ATTACK:BLUNT:11000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000] 



[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET]
[NAME:bullet:bullets]
[CLASS:BULLET]
[SIZE:20]
[ATTACK:EDGE:1:30000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:10000]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET_B]
[NAME:blunderbuss bullet:blunderbuss bullets]
[CLASS:BULLET_B]
[SIZE:50]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:15000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:9000]



[REACTION:FORGE_BULLETS]
      [NAME:Forge a bullet]
      [BUILDING:CRAFSTMAN:CUSTOM_SHIFT_Z]
      [REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:INORGANIC]
      [PRODUCT:100:35:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:metal]
      [FUEL]
      [SKILL:BOWYER]

[REACTION:FORGE_BULLETS_B]
      [NAME:Forge a blunderbuss bullet]
      [BUILDING:CRAFSTMAN:CUSTOM_SHIFT_X]
      [REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:INORGANIC]
      [PRODUCT:100:35:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET_B:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:metal]
      [FUEL]
      [SKILL:BOWYER]


[REACTION:MAKE_PISTOL]
      [NAME:Build a pistol]
      [BUILDING:CRAFTSMAN:CUSTOM_W]
      [REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:INORGANIC]
      [REAGENT:wood:150:WOOD:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
      [PRODUCT:100:5:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PISTOL:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:metal]
      [FUEL]
      [SKILL:BOWYER]

[REACTION:MAKE_BLUNDERBUSS]
      [NAME:Build a blunderbuss]
      [BUILDING:CRAFTSMAN:CUSTOM_X]
      [REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:INORGANIC]
      [REAGENT:wood:150:WOOD:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
      [PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BLUNDERBUSS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:metal]
      [FUEL]
      [SKILL:BOWYER]


Dwarfs use blunderbusses and pistols, all other races but elves and kobolds have acess to muskets and pistols.
There are no more mail armors, the only weapons available are Pikes, Halberds and Swords.
I've also renamed "musket" to arquebus.

Blunderbusses are smaller, but more potent, their bullets have three times the size of an arquebus bullet, they are slower and don't penetrate as much armour, the blunderbuss shoots twice as strong as the arquebus though. Pistols are small and weak, they are the cheapest weapon though.


The previous raws are all you need to mod that in.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

If possible, since gnomes are more known for tech, and I heard somebody made a bombard here, have them have bombards?

[Anathema]

The blows push people backwards now
It's a little too strong, but I think it works almost like a IRL musket would.

Sounds like success to me! A thought occurs, if you want to balance guns vs. melee weapons without making bullet wounds any less deadly, you could vastly increase the SIZE value of the weapon itself (i.e. the gun not the bullet). This would effectively slow their rate of fire, although as a side effect it'd slow down everything else they do (movement, melee attacks, etc.). Come to think of it that might not be a bad side effect, slow movement and melee attack speed would make your arquebusiers very vulnerable to a pikeman charge, but still deadly when safe behind fortifications or your own line of melees, which is historically how they worked.

Anyway until movement/combat speed gets separated in DF, which is several updates away, increasing weapon size would be the closest you can get to simulating a long "reload" time. Which was, of course, the main thing limiting firearms from completely dominating melee weapons back in the 15th century (pity you can't reduce their accuracy as well, that'd be the other thing).

[Eктωρ]

Yeah. They shoot WAAAY too fast now. I don't know about the size thing. I'll see if it works. The problem is that they aren't THAT deadly, I mean, it depends where you hit. And bosses like warlords somehow just don't give in to pain, you know?

[Anathema]

True, but if they moved and fired slowly enough, you'd be free to make them that much more deadly per shot without making other weapons obsolete. It's a delicate balance, it's a wonder melee weapons and gunpowder coexisted for so long in real life before the latter took over.

[JediaKyrol]

Muskets didn't have bayonets.

then what are these?



first thing soldiers learned with muskets was that they took forever to load, were terribly inaccurate, and if the enemy got close they were screwed...so they bolted knives, stakes, camp-forks, and pretty much anything stabby to the end.

[Eктωρ]

Yes, but that is hardly a bayonet, true bayonets didn't appear until the XVII century.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It's still stabby. It is effectively a bayonet.

[Tigrath]

It's those [SHOOT_MAXVEL:500000] tags that are responsible for the high rate of fire.  You can cut those down to crossbow levels and be fine.  Here's something I tried a while back that might help you with the bombard (of course, they're a bit overpowered since they were made to fit into a 40K mod).

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_INCH]
[NAME:1" AutoCannon:1" AutoCannon]
[SIZE:1200]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:PIKE:INCH]
[SHOOT_FORCE:100000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:8000]
[TWO_HANDED:8000000]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:60000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_INCH]
[NAME:1" shell:1" shells]
[CLASS:INCH]
[SIZE:100]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5000:500000:blast:blasts:NO_SUB:50000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:200:10000:blast:blasts:NO_SUB:100000]


[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_THREE_INCH]
[NAME:3" Cannon:3" Cannon]
[SIZE:1200]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:PIKE:THREE]
[SHOOT_FORCE:200000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:2000]
[TWO_HANDED:16000000]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:70000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:6]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_THREE]
[NAME:3" shell:3" shells]
[CLASS:THREE]
[SIZE:200]
[ATTACK:EDGE:15000:750000:blast:blasts:NO_SUB:100000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:300:10000:blast:blasts:NO_SUB:250000]

You'll notice that both ammos have two attacks that the game will choose between.  The edged is for a direct hit, and the blunt is to simulate the concussive blast from a near miss.  One other thing to remember is that ammo material is critical to armor penetration.  A copper or lead bullet isn't going to penetrate steel armor no matter how fast it goes.