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Author Topic: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!  (Read 12436 times)

Fishbulb

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Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« on: December 09, 2011, 06:31:19 am »

It's the summer of 102, and Relicstorm is just getting started. This time I decided to get my clothing situation under control from the outset, so with each of the migration waves so far (including my starting seven) I used dfhack's "cleanowned all" cheat to erase all ownership of everything, then used the stocks screen to mark all my dwarves' clothing for dumping. They obediently stripped each other naked. When I reclaimed the garbage pile, they moved all their former clothing items to the closets I'd built for the purpose — shoes, cloaks, dresses, all that. Easy.

Just now I was watching my blacksmith, wondering why he wasn't forging those chains I ordered. I saw he had a "pickup equipment" job. Now, that's weird, because he's neither a miner nor a woodcutter, nor has he ever been in the military — because I haven't created a military yet.

I paused-and-zoomed and found him just coming out of the shoe closet (containing a stockpile for leather finished-goods footwear, because really, why not). I looked at his inventory and saw:

(pig tail fiber robe), Upper body
(alpaca wool trousers), Lower body
(honey badger leather shoe), Right foot

Then, as I watched him like a hawk, he went to the sock pile and put on a (giant cave spider silk sock), Right foot! He didn't claim it as his own; he just picked it up and put it on!

Is it possible that in this version (31.25, which I believe is latest-and-greatest) dwarves will in fact sometimes put on clothing!? I examined each of those items closely looking for the owned-by tag, and none of them have one. He just got sick of getting naked, went to the clothing stockpiles and got dressed! Then he went off to harvest some rope reeds.

Now, I believe a dwarf's proclivity to store-owned-item is related to the organization trait, or at least it seems that way. (My dwarves who leave their crap lying all over the damn fort all seem to have the "disorganized" or worse trait, while the ones who fastidiously fill their cabinets all have "organized" or better), so I looked at Mebzuth the Blacksmith's traits in Runesmith to see if there was a "hates being naked" trait, or a "whenever possible prefers to wear one honey badger leather shoe" trait. All I found was the mundane:

Rarely feels discouraged
Relaxed
Does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity
Prefers familiar routines
Dislikes intellectual discussions

And that's all. Nothing about "enjoys wearing clothing". He does have the "made a satisfying acquisition lately" thought at the moment, but I checked his room and his cabinet does contain a (sheep wool shoe) which is described as "Owner: Mebzuth Oddomvuthil, Blacksmith". And the job he just now finished was "Pickup equipment" and definitely not "Store owned item". The things he's got on him now aren't hauled; they're being worn.

So I went looking at my other dwarves and found pretty much what I expected: naked, naked, naked … fully dressed weaver. Seriously.

(cave spider silk sock), Right foot
(pig tail fiber shoe), Right foot
(cave spider silk sock), Left foot
(pig tail fiber shoe), Left foot
(sheep leather right glove), Right hand
(giant cave spider silk right mitten), Right hand
(sheep leather left glove), Left hand
(giant cave spider silk left mitten), Left hand
(alpaca wool cap), Head
(llama wool hood), Head
(cave spider silk dress), Upper body
(alpaca wool coat), Upper body
(giant toad leather cloak), Upper body
(blind cave bear leather trousers), Lower body

None of the items she's wearing are owned; I checked. The only thing that's remarkable about her is that she's a legendary weaver, the beneficiary of a recent mood. I saved and rolled back to the summer autosave to check her inventory and found the same thing, then I rolled back to the spring autosave and found she wasn't in the fort. She arrived with the summer migrants. Dang.

I'm going to watch this closely. I'm going to strip Mebzuth the smith naked again (by dumping all his worn items) and see what he does.

EDIT: He did it!

I went to his inventory and individually marked each of his items for dumping. While he was harvesting plants, four other dwarves came along and stripped him naked. Once those items were on the pile, I reclaimed them, and the dwarves put them in their proper closets. All good.

Mebzuth finished harvesting plants, then decided he was hungry. He grabbed the closest sun berry and took it to the dining room. Ate it. Went to the booze room and had a drink. Then while he was still carrying the booze pot, he got a "pickup equipment" job and went straight to the closet, where he found and put on that same honey badger leather right shoe (it had to have been, as I've only got one pair of those in the fort, according to my stocks screen).

My dwarves are getting dressed. I'm confused as hell by this.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 06:38:26 am by Fishbulb »
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peskyninja

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 06:46:37 am »

Weird.
Screens please.
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Knarfle

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 06:47:54 am »

What's the weather like? Maybe if it's warm enough, they just don't give a fuck?
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Fishbulb

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 06:56:44 am »

Weird.
Screens please.

Sure, here's how things are right now, with my game still paused. This is Mebzuth coming out of the shoe closet, still carrying his hauled strawberry wine pot, wearing a single shoe.



And here you can see that the shoe is worn but not owned.



What's the weather like? Maybe if it's warm enough, they just don't give a fuck?

I embarked in a warm area, mountain on one side and tropical forest on the other. But I turned weather and temperature off as is my habit soon after embarking.
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Crustypeanut

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 07:01:26 am »

Maybe certain jobs require you to be properly clothed? o.O  I mean, I know I wouldn't want to operate a forge naked..
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Newbunkle

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 07:07:15 am »

You have sun berries too? I thought they weren't showing up at the moment.
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shadenight123

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 07:08:19 am »

Maybe certain jobs require you to be properly clothed? o.O  I mean, I know I wouldn't want to operate a forge naked..

i doubt it.
i had a stark naked captain of the guard/metalsmith.
he was completely devoid of dress, only in copper armour, was frost-bitten because he didn't have clothes on, and yet he never picked up a dress.
he started crawling on the ground and then died.
took me a while too to realize i had embarked in a cold biome.
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Fishbulb

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 07:11:26 am »

Ah, here are perhaps some better screens.

After taking the previous pictures I unpaused. Mebzuth went to the booze room and put his strawberry wine pot away, then immediately got another pickup equipment job:



He went to the closet room, still wearing just that one shoe:



There he went to the pile of dumped-and-reclaimed-but-not-yet-stored clothing and picked up some items:



After that, he went off to the forge to make the chains I ordered.

It's just weird, man. I've never seen dwarves do this before.

Maybe certain jobs require you to be properly clothed? o.O  I mean, I know I wouldn't want to operate a forge naked..

That makes perfect sense … except for the part where my weaver is also wearing clothes.



Again, these items are worn but not owned.



It's just bizarre. Of the rest of my dwarves, some are naked, like these two:





Others have picked up an item or two, like one of my starting-seven miners:



I have no explanation.

You have sun berries too? I thought they weren't showing up at the moment.

Not by default, but I removed the [GOOD] and [EVIL] tags from the plant raws to get around that. I've got both sun berries and sliver barbs growing wild in this embark, which is (I think) half untamed wilds and half wilderness. A cheat, but I justify it by saying I'm working around a bug.
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MrShovelFace

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2011, 11:00:59 am »

seeing a naked dwarf should be a bad thought
does nobody care about the innocence of all the dwarf children?
Running around all day in the presence of a thousand naked midgets
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2011, 07:41:27 am »

seeing a naked dwarf should be a bad thought
does nobody care about the innocence of all the dwarf children?
Running around all day in the presence of a thousand naked midgets


The beards keep 'em decent.

This is pretty amazing.  You used the dfhack function--does that mean it is theoretically possible to overcome chronic dwarf nudity? The possibilities are mindboggling.  Let's weaponize it!
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Fishbulb

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2011, 08:47:57 am »

Here's my so-far-not-disproved pet theory.

We know that dwarves who are wearing worn clothing will not take that clothing off and replace it with a comparable unworn, unclaimed item. The same goes, I hear but have not directly observed, for dwarves who wear an item until it completely wears away; they won't replace it and will happily run around beardclad.

But in this fort, as soon as each migrant wave came in (and this includes my Significant Seven), I dfhacked "cleanowned all" to remove ownership claims on worn items, then went to stocks and dump-designated all clothing, then (for each wave of migrants after the starters) I went to the closets and mass-un-dump-designated them, so the dwarves wouldn't run around emptying my perfectly good closets. They compliantly stripped each other naked and put the clothes on the dump pile, I reclaimed them, and they filed them away in the closets.

Which means I had dwarves who thought they should be wearing something but weren't, so they went and got some clothes to put on without claiming them.

The distinction here is that I stripped my dwarves before their clothes wore out. So maybe what's relevant is the difference between a dwarf who thinks he's supposed to be wearing something that isn't there, and a dwarf who thinks he's supposed to be wearing something but isn't sussing out the fact that it's worn out.

Of course, the other quirk is that some of my dwarves are happy to run around starkers (including my mood-legendary weaver who's wearing only sutures he got after a missed-mandate-justice-beating that snuck up on me before I could get my stockade built), while others seemingly fastidiously put on at least some clothes. Which makes me suspect there's a trait involved, but I've been too busy getting my marksdwarves up and running and killing kobold thieves to dive in and explore the correlations. Also it'd be a lotta work and I'm sooooo lazy.

Anyway, it seems like the acknowledged bug of dwarves claiming clothing items and never wearing them is more complicated by far than just "dwarves don't put stuff on ever." I have a newfound respect for Toady now, because it's clear it's not just a simple "Oh yeah, I forgot to turn 'don't be naked, you drunken idiots' on in the raws" or whatever.
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proxn_punkd

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2011, 01:08:16 pm »

I recall reading that there was a "modesty" personality trait. Might that be part of the reason some dwarves are getting dressed or remaining naked, as well?
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Nyxalinth

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2011, 02:02:54 pm »

I recall reading that there was a "modesty" personality trait. Might that be part of the reason some dwarves are getting dressed or remaining naked, as well?

Logical assumption but I think it refers more to their propensity to be boastful as opposed to whether or not they feel at ease being naked :)
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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2011, 02:16:52 pm »

I suspect that this is not related to dwarf personality, but that a bug is present. Note how they only equip/wear clothes that they don't own, but store owned items in their personal closets.

Questions for Fishbulb:
- What do the naked dwarves own/have in their closets? What do the dressed/partially dressed dwarves own?
- Do you have extra, unowned clothing in stockpiles?
- What is your ECONOMY setting in d_init.txt?
- What is the military/miner/woodcutter/hunter status of the naked/dressed dwarves?

I suspect that they can't wear items that they own. Then, you can only get them to wear items that they don't own, which can't be items that they "claimed". Your use of the dfhack tool is somehow tricking them into not claiming some clothing items, and that is interesting.

Lemunde

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Re: Civilian dwarves putting on clothes!
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2011, 02:42:15 pm »

The way I see it is you used a hack to change the nature of the items in question. So it's impossible to determine whether this is the result of the hack or if this is a "normal" occurrence in DF.
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