Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Fortress Layouts  (Read 17094 times)

Kravick

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Fortress Layouts
« on: December 18, 2011, 07:29:26 am »

I need some ideas on how to build the interior of my new fortress.  Usually I go with a modular design I came up with but I've been using it for years and I'm getting bored with it.  I need to change things up a bit.  Any suggestions would be great.  Examples would be even better.

A somewhat related question.  How deep do you normally dig before you start laying out your fortress?
Logged

Knarfle

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 08:11:50 am »

I usually dig out the farm areas in soil pretty fast. I keep all my food-related shops and activities on that level, including several large indoor fields. I usually build a surface farm later, and try to give it a glass ceiling if I can.

  The main part of my fort is always in the rock because I like smoothing and engraving everything with task forces of stoneworkers.

  I also usually build a section of bedrooms, dining room, and food storage way deep. I then usually burrow all my smelters and metalworkers down there. They live on their own, mostly, with other dwarves bringing them ores.

 

  I've been experimenting with defense design, lately. I like having a raised barracks that overlooks the entrance to my fort and has fortifications. Also I like having a couple of guards posted at a choke. It's probably not very efficient, but I think it looks cool. Plus it's hilarious when a spotted thief turns around and meets two angry guards and their dogs.
Logged
What do you get when a Rhesus monkey steps on a weapons trap loaded with maximum adamantine blades?

Rhesus Pieces!

Jenniretta

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 09:34:00 am »

I typically end up living between the above-ground and highest-cavern layer for the early part of the fortress, when I strike magma I'll sometimes move everyone deeper so my metalworks aren't miles away from everything else, and I can skip the annoyance of pump-stacks going 60 levels to get free heat. My last fortress I never bothered with magma though, I ran all my furnaces and forges etc. with the corpses of the local elves' lovers(trees) so it all stayed above the first cavern really.

As for a new building style, well, try building horizontally if you usually build a tower, or vertically if you usually build horizontally. Or use an organic build method, where you add stuff as-needed and make space as it's required etc. that way you avoid modularity, it sacrifices efficiency, but it's nice to have a different fortress every time you play. This is how I've been building lately - just build as I need too, or when the mood strikes me, with no plan in mind before I start.
Logged

rephikul

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CURIOUSBEAST_IDEA]
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 09:34:39 am »

I dig away the floors and create an under ground "tree" with each branches being a workshop connected to a central elevator shaft. I added reactions to change all rocks into 1-2 with color of my liking and use them. Pretty nice until some titans crash through my gem windows then !!FUN!! ensured.
Logged
Intensifying Mod v0.23 for 0.31.25. Paper tigers are white.
Prepacked Dwarf Fortress with Intensifying mod v.0.23, Phoebus graphics set, DFhack, Dwarf Therapist, Runesmith and a specialized custom worldgen param.

Jenniretta

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 09:48:25 am »

I dig away the floors and create an under ground "tree" with each branches being a workshop connected to a central elevator shaft. I added reactions to change all rocks into 1-2 with color of my liking and use them. Pretty nice until some titans crash through my gem windows then !!FUN!! ensured.

Reminds me, back in in 40d I hollowed out a 3/3 embark except the magma pipe, built a huge structure with walls, workshops, stockpiles, path to trade depot, etc, hanging from the top-most level of ground, and had the entire fortress running in there save a few farms above-ground for booze. Took forever, and flooding the lowest0two levelz with magma (just for the dwarfyness of it) killed my FPS, was worth it though. should be interesting to try something like this with the caverns. A flying FB would be a problem though
Logged

Lemunde

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 12:16:14 am »

I typically end up living between the above-ground and highest-cavern layer for the early part of the fortress, when I strike magma I'll sometimes move everyone deeper so my metalworks aren't miles away from everything else, and I can skip the annoyance of pump-stacks going 60 levels to get free heat. My last fortress I never bothered with magma though, I ran all my furnaces and forges etc. with the corpses of the local elves' lovers(trees) so it all stayed above the first cavern really.

As for a new building style, well, try building horizontally if you usually build a tower, or vertically if you usually build horizontally. Or use an organic build method, where you add stuff as-needed and make space as it's required etc. that way you avoid modularity, it sacrifices efficiency, but it's nice to have a different fortress every time you play. This is how I've been building lately - just build as I need too, or when the mood strikes me, with no plan in mind before I start.

That's the best way to go. Too much planning leaves you unprepared for unexpected situations which is common in Dwarf Fortress.

I usually dig out food and furniture storage first, then a dining hall to get my idlers off the surface, then a handful of workshop rooms, then a small barracks. Once the basics are in place I dig straight down until I hit magma, sealing off and digging around caverns as they appear.
Logged

Kaleb702 Games

  • Bay Watcher
  • nearlyNonexistent
    • View Profile
    • My YYG Account
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 12:22:58 am »

I dig out my forts in the sides of the mountains, usually next to rivers.
Once that's done, I then make a main pathway which is only one tile wide, so that people bump into each other and climb under. I then make workshops around the main hallway, and directly connect them to each other and the main hallway. Then I do bedrooms, all directly connected to the main hallway, and eventually there's a huge, monolithic rectangle for main storage at the end of the path.

Then the fort slowly grows different according to when I need something, and then it's placed randomly in there. My forts are inefficient.
Logged
Quote from: Rose Lalonde, Seer of Light
One simple word can so easily begin a story in a very thick book.

chris_strain

  • Bay Watcher
  • Evil Overlord
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 01:45:51 am »

I set my pop cap to 500 so I've been experimenting with various large fort designs. (I have yet to hit 500 so far though)

Everything is based off a central 3x3 staircase. The only design constant I've kept is my bedroom designs. All commoner rooms are 3x3 with a bed, 1 chest and 1 cabinet. Rooms are kept 100 to a floor in a 50/50 efficient/inefficient design:

, = floor
- | = wall
s = stairs
b = bed
h = chest
f = cabinet
d = door

(kinda large)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My initial dwarfs get 5x5 rooms with attached 3x3 office and a communal (for them) private dining room.

'Good' Nobles gets 7x7 rooms with attached office and private dining.

'Annoying' Nobles get locked naked in a 1x1 room with an upright (training)spear trap for 5 minutes with the lever on repeat.
This usually settles then down for a season or two, but eventually then end up in the next level...

'Bad' Nobles get dropped into my naked goblin pit to be beat on until they either die by goblin, or goes berserk and kills them all. Berserker nobles are then returned to 'good' status and allowed to rejoin the fort.

Beyond that I tend to use large open spaces to house stockpiles and workshop areas. I'm not a fan of small closed off general areas.
Logged

daggaz

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 04:26:31 am »

Top two layers are for barracks, trade depot, entrance, and plumbing (ditches, room for going under ditches, and water plumbing). 

I have a central waterfall going thru the center of a 3x3 staircase, with the middle replaced with iron grates all the way down.  The waterfall ends below my deepest sleeping layer (usually 15 or so), and enters a system of sewers and cisterns below my hospital, before passing out the side of the map.   

Lowest few soil layers are for farming, with food production happening on the deepest one.  First stone layer is brewing and kitchen.  Next layer is mass storage.  Next is stone workshops.  Next is reserved for a second workshop level.  Ill put my dining hall in a suitable layer somewhere below that (preferably with lots of marble or something white and valuable), and the sleeping areas just below that.  The hospital is the last layer.

Magma forges are put as close as possible to the surface, whereever I hopefully manage to find a magma chamber.  Mines are spread throughout.  Everything is well defended with drawbridges, doors, and dogs. 
Logged

Russell.s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 05:54:39 am »

Here is the design I've been working with lately. It's creates some really lovely patterns, and I've got a lot in mind for my next big fort, which I will begin once the next version is out. I originally wanted to turn this into a giant underground pillar, but the amount of digging and designating required is so, so draining.

The dining room, at the base of the tower:


The vaulted dining room ceiling:


Another level, with the barracks in the top corner:


A magma forge:


Below the magma forge:


As I say, I'd love to finish it but don't know if I will before the next version comes out. Currently don't have the motivation! :(

Logged

Vharuck

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 10:06:42 am »

I somewhat enjoy passing the buck of architectural design to nature.  I really enjoyed my one fort in the first cavern layer, where a couple large walls enclosed a lake.  Building rooms into those and the thicker natural stone pillars was pretty neat.  Most dwarves got a more unique room, some pillars could only fit one large room next to a staircase so they became the noble rooms, etc.

One thing I want to do in the next fortress is a downward branching tree (not the nature tree, but a tree graph).
               / \
              /\  \
             / /  /\

I want to make it so that, if a dwarf is standing in the top-most chamber, there is only one non-backtracking path to any other room.  I hope it will reduce FPS lag from path finding, though I will admit I only have vague ideas of how DF's path finding works.
Logged

Urist Da Vinci

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NATURAL_SKILL: ENGINEER:4]
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 11:56:05 am »

...
One thing I want to do in the next fortress is a downward branching tree (not the nature tree, but a tree graph).
               / \
              /\  \
             / /  /\

I want to make it so that, if a dwarf is standing in the top-most chamber, there is only one non-backtracking path to any other room.  I hope it will reduce FPS lag from path finding, though I will admit I only have vague ideas of how DF's path finding works.

DF uses A* pathfinding with adjustable weighting (traffic designations) for the cost of stepping on a tile. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RGZdOoZZvw

Note that the pathfinder will always attempt to travel towards the destination in a straight line unless obstacles are encountered. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OtFPozUiEM&feature=related . So if the destination is below the dwarf, but he has to go up to get to the top of the tree graph, he will explore all downwards intersections he can first (which could be up to 50% of the tree).

However, if the tree looks more like a 3D version of a brainstorming diagram, with the meeting hall, dining room, and food/booze stockpile at the core, then 80% of the time dwarves are walking to and from the core in a straight line. For the other 20% (like haulers moving charcoal from the wood products branch to the metalworking branch), dig them a shortcut tunnel that connects the two branches.

The other thing to note is the traffic designations:
Quote from: d_init.txt
Change these numbers to set the default weights for traffic designations.  If you make the last numbers too large, pathfinding might lag.
The format is (PATH_COST:<high>:<normal>:<low>:<restricted>).

[PATH_COST:1:2:5:25]

Change it like so to improve FPS at the cost of not being able to use High Traffic zones:
Quote from: d_init.txt
Change these numbers to set the default weights for traffic designations.  If you make the last numbers too large, pathfinding might lag.
The format is (PATH_COST:<high>:<normal>:<low>:<restricted>).

[PATH_COST:1:1:5:25]
Basically, anything other than a tile cost of 1 (high traffic zone) causes the pathfinder to search for alternate, less expensive routes to the destination, even if the dwarf can simply walk in a straight line to get to the destination.

If you do have dead-end mining tunnels from ore veins or exploration, wall them off or use the Restricted traffic designation once they are empty and useless. This will prevent or lessen the chance that the pathfinder wastes time exploring a tunnel that goes nowhere.

Dwarfus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 04:00:51 pm »

My design matches much of what the other posters have said:

1) Rush underground, carving out the farms first to get my growers immediately planting. My survival technique is heavily agriculturally based since that's non-variable on my location, with uncertainty about the metal underneath.
2) Setup a massive accept anything stockpile, move everything underground, dismantle wagon.
3) Start the initial surface walls that bottleneck the entrance to the fortress, tie up a wardog there for snatchers, and later line the entrance with cage traps. Captured mobs will be used in underground arenas for military practice.
4) Start the public works. My style is vertical, as follows:

Surface
---|---
Agricultural Level (Crops, Farmers Workshops, Agri Stockpiles Only, Dying/Milling/Etc)
---|---
Public Works (Meeting Rooms, Statue Gardens, Food Stockpiles, Dining Rooms, Nobles Rooms)
---|---
Stockpiles & Workshops
---|---
Living Level
---|---
ALL OTHER SPACE
---|---
Magma Forges

Like the others said, I focus on setting up initial living and safety, then mine straight down, avoiding caverns and sealing them off, tunnelling down through stalagtites and what nots, to get my magma forges set up immediately. I consider wood to be extremely valuable in making beds and chests prior to a metal industry being setup, so I restrict using it for those things.

I try to be efficient, but even the best plans get modified based on the environment. I have learned that the central point of activity will be the farms, with the highest traffic between Farms<-->Meeting Room<-->Food Stockpiles, so I try to orient around that. I make massive dining rooms that are northern oriented, with a three wide corridor between them and a Major food stockpile to the south (stockpiles are filled north to south, so this means they don't have to walk as far as the southern end of the stockpile), then I have multiple 3x3 up/down staircases on either side of the food stockpiles and dining room to lead up to the Agricultural level above. Seasonal changes are closely watched, assigning tasks after the "farm planting season" stampede. I generally turn on farming/process/milling/dying for ALL dwarves in order to avoid rotten plants and materials.
Logged

zakkeh

  • Bay Watcher
  • Rawrior
    • View Profile
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2012, 05:47:40 am »

Found this thread because I want to get back into DF and the layout always stumps me.

Embark on a sweet sounding place only to find 4 layers of soil. The fifth layer is stone...and also connected to the first cavern layer. So there goes that fort following these careful layouts. Just my luck
Logged
Or perhaps you're just sadistic and enjoy slow-cooking your goblins/kittens/nobles.

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Fortress Layouts
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2012, 11:41:55 am »

Secure as much ground as possible above ground with a large wall, that encompasses my tree farm, grazer fields, civilian quarters, fortress, above ground farm, quarry and the first stockpile. In the centre is a cave that leads to the caverns, but I usually wall those off. In it's place I have the caverns connected to the surface with the quarry, which has a spiral rampway going all the way up :P
Pages: [1] 2