Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

One or the other... vote once for #1 and once for #2.

#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.
#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.
#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.
#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

Pages: 1 ... 580 581 [582] 583 584 ... 749

Author Topic: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.3 - New release and old post. This will be locked later.  (Read 808039 times)

MiamiBryce

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8715 on: January 19, 2013, 08:55:49 pm »

25% of the people that start the poll dont finish it btw ^^

Right now, I'm one of them.  I stopped because the pole asks about randomly generated creatures.  I read all the change logs, i've not seen anything having to do with randomly generated creatures.  What am I missing.
Logged

Tally

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8716 on: January 19, 2013, 09:10:10 pm »

So I tried out kobold camp for the first time. The plan was, with two carpenters/woodcutters, build a large wooden wall to surround my kobolds. Before I could finish it, somehow a pack of raptors got into my fort without me noticing and tore everyone to bits. As always, the drakes I had pastured outside put up a really good fight. Also, a migrant wave came after 5 or 6 of my original kobolds were dead... and I wasn't informed of them? I'll have to see what's up with that on my next playthrough.
Logged

Bloax

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8717 on: January 19, 2013, 09:19:50 pm »

Right now, I'm one of them.  I stopped because the pole asks about randomly generated creatures.  I read all the change logs, i've not seen anything having to do with randomly generated creatures.  What am I missing.
Settings.exe > Creatures > Generate creatures
Meph added Talvieno's creature/civ generator. Might've forgotten to mention it beyond some separate update post though.
Logged

SabbyKat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8718 on: January 19, 2013, 09:43:43 pm »

have a few minutes free, so going to drop some quick feedback/bugs/etc below.

Version: v.2f (nothing modified outside of gui interface options)

tileset: Phoebus

- My armorer just made an 'iridium INDESTRUCTIBLE armor' Artifact. I don't think this is right... is it? Sounds like a missed tag in the code or similar, as I don't think 'indestructible' is an actual type of armor design.

- I noticed a HUGE, HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEE drop in fps (went from over 400, to under 30!) in 2 seconds. I could not find the cause. No siege/ambush. When one arrived, I slaughtered it, it fled, but still, I lagged so harshly, I could barely move. Nothing abnormal happened, no burrows issues, etc. Rebooted the game, my computer, etc, same result. In rage, I abandoned and noticed it said my 'strength was broken', Yet there were no sieges/ambushes were on my map above...?

Further watching, it said 'offloading 782 units' - WHAT?! I had 48 dwarves, and few animals (butchered them to keep numbers down as I hate the clutter :P). I did NOT have any caverns open yet, but my only assumption is basically, cavern ambushes were 'stacking up' in some form. That's the only way to account for the well over 500-600+ extra units I couldn't find...

on reclaim, with just my 7 dwarves, I got '675' units offloading. All the animals are dead, and I didn't even unpause the game, so 'ambushes/sieges that just appeared on the map!' are impossible.

Third reclaim, using DFhack to reveal the map, going to go look what the heck it is... visibly, with reveal, there's nothing abnormal. About 14 animals I can see on the surface/caverns. Hell isn't revealed/breached. The only viable option, is the underground ambush races are down below (which I can't see even with reveal) and are stacking up and bugged. No other real solution to the lag and unit count.


Note for Dragons: I just had a second one appear, and oddly, with even fewer golems (using these as examples for fights, as dwarves vary depending on armor, caste, etc), and this time I was hitting (and missing) a lot more often. A lucky shot from a spear golem in the back of the buggers head fixed him nicely. It was a lucky kill, but it seemed a bit more balanced this time... hrmph. I'll do more testing!

- Red Dragons (the most common 'titan/mega beast' on the surface, from my experience) seem to have in the 2.f version, gotten INSANELY strong. Either I'm absolutely terribly lucky, or something has changed dramatically vs the v1.0 of the mod.

#1 it SEEMS their breath can melt golems, having difficulty confirming due to the crazy speed of battles and lack of 'fire damage' in combat logs.

#2 they seem to be EXTREMELY fast in attacking. I had a group of (for example) 12 golems vs just it - and across my 12 golems, I think during the fight each got 2 shots off (almost every single shot missed entirely), while it hit them at least 6-12 times between their strikes.

#3 Their 'dragon fire' seems a tad op. They can literally spam it non-stop, and basically makes any viable tactic aside from Volcanic (last I recall, that is) non-existent. Send 50 steel-cladded dwarves? you're wiped out before you even take a swing. Archers are viable, yes, but it spits fire at above ground areas (not sure if it still fires at fortifications). I don't think it's intended for them to have god-mode fire breath spam like they do, at least not when they're insanely fast, building destroyers, and very resilient.

I remember before in 1.0 version, they were laughably weak. A siege of 10 copper-bronze armored units would destroy them. But I just watched one take on a full 80+ ferric elf siege (who were riding GIANT bark scorpions and other fun stuff) wipe them out entirely. Then an automaton siege, only deliver 'light scratches' to it! x.x




- harder Farming. Over-all, it's a very solid system, which really forces you to extend out and control your food. No more having a stockpile of food ranging over 15,000+ from just 4 fields of farming! It's damn hard to use ONLY farming to survive now, and fishing and other avenues, are vital to be 'comfortable' even with a ton of farms running.

There is a flaw I noticed. Above ground crops take two months to 'grow' - you claimed (pages back :P) to plant only in spring/summer, and not autumn, as they won't grow in time for winter. But unless you plant seeds within the first 5 seconds or so of it turning to summer, ANYTHING planted in summer, will generally be lost. 2 full seasons=Summer+autmn, meaning they begin to 'ripen' in winter, which can't be. So only Spring is viable. Not sure if this is intended, but thought I'd point it out.



- Certain plants (still trying to compile a list) do not show up in your stockpile summary (z, bottom left corner - Plants: (4241). Example, I have 490 cave wheat, 183 strawberries, 80 quarrybushes, 500 plump helms, etc. It shows I have 237 plants. Yet stockpile menu, shows I have the listed amounts. If not reported by others (rushing due to being busy in real life), I'll go do a test and try to find which count, which don't, and such to help pin down the issue if not resolved.

- Fish Ponds are a very nifty addition, especially as you can't really optimize where your river/brook/etc will be outside.

My issue is (personal feedback - not direct problems), is it's quite silly in how difficult it for effort vs gain. Speak of Nets/rods, which cost thread (cloth), wood, and various pieces, all of which are renewable of course. Normal fishers, don't need any of this so comparing the cost vs normal fishing, normal fishing wins.

BUT! Ponds let you be safe from mobs from rivers, and the outside! Very true. However, the actual 'danger' of fishing naturally, with some ingenuity can almost be entirely negated. Build a 5 to 9x5 to 9 wide box, put a roof over it, a floor, designate a single wide hole in the water for fishing. Add in a tunnel from inside the base to the hut with no way in from the outside, making fishing from any above-ground source of water, nigh safe from anything, even building destroyers.

This would be fine if the 'catch rates' were equal, but generally, the speed of fishing from 'ponds' seems to be a good bit slower vs normal fishing of equal skill. Now, add in the pretty damn high 'lose' rate of equipment, and the effort to make said tools to fish from ponds... I simply setup 'safe huts' on a murky pool/brook/etc, rather than use them. Less materials wasted, faster catch rate, more food, less hassle over all.

 It's also most efficient to just spam buckets from a stonecutter (using blocks from a brick furnace), due to the 'lose chance' of rods/nets, even if lower, will still inevitably happen. I'd much prefer to lose a single block, then valuable thread/wood (wood taking a good bit of time to grow, especially with harder farming!).

My suggestion (unless I'm overlooking something/overstepping my 'rights' to talk about it), would be to either reduce the fail chance of rods/nets to make them much more viable, or increase catch rates/speed, or a mixture of both. Even if rod's are say, 5% fail - after 20 fish average, I'd lose it. 20 fish in a 100 man fort isn't a lot! :P


Quick positive notes:

- I love the new 'schematic' system to copy schematics, and create most of them with a higher chance of success that's fair, but risky. I also love the ability to create mechanisms, and other 'acquirable' bits.

- I LOVE the new menu's, they help a lot! And are much easier to look at. :P

- The Apocatherius (damn word!) building, I believe you mentioned is a work in progress. It seems really baron, especially compared to the old one.

- Over-all, I like the rebalance feel from 1.9.5 compared to 2.f - I can see you got good ideas going on here, even if not 'complete' yet, and will be posting more feedback as I find it (within reason).



Also, I completed the voting poll.


« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 01:23:20 am by SabbyKat »
Logged

gn0rt0n

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Bugfix, Graphics and Kobolds (and Linux/Mac OS)
« Reply #8719 on: January 19, 2013, 10:06:22 pm »

@zach123b: I increased it to 20, which is the max capacity for barrels. (yes, I know toady can fit more in them, but modders cant) I could also split it, but dwarves dont drink from jugs. Are cheeses always made in batches of 5 ? If yes, I can balance it on this...

I've been thinking the opposite actually. I think they are overpowered right now. It seems that farming has been nerfed so much for booze production by lengthening the growing cycle and increasing the need for fertilizer that I can't support an early game fortress anymore through it and I don't want to micro fertilizer production and use my trees, and I need production before my slag pits are even built/in use. I saw one of your posts several pages back about using the goats on embark and decided to try it as  I had previously skipped over them.

Taking a few (ie 5) goats or so at embark and giving a dwarf increases in milk/cheese/food and then sticking him a a 11x11 room with those 3 buildings working full time as a booze guy has completely replaced my farming dependence. I am swimming in booze more than I ever have and there is always extra cheese to trade/eat even after the booze. The goats seem like they have kids a couple of times a year so the industry ballons quickly while still giving a deliverable product in both food/booze year around. It also ultimately provides extra meat/bones/leather once I start slaughtering.

Basically goats have become my #1 early-game fortress sustain tool. Cost is a non-issue as well since I no longer take any seeds/spawn with me. I don't spend any points on farm/brew either as I can wait for migrants. I don't need geese/turkeys anymore either so although the goats are more points (37) at the start, there are plenty of points to jump start my industries and it takes absolutely no micro-management (ie, hens/hatching/forbidding etc) and starts producing actual booze within the first month rather than multiple-growing seasons.

YMMV, but this is what I have felt as of 2f with harder farming enabled. I have not tired the grazing option, so perhaps this will add more balance to the issue right now.

-G
Logged

Putnam

  • Bay Watcher
  • DAT WIZARD
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8720 on: January 19, 2013, 10:09:43 pm »

mm is the boozebelly cheese to alcohol reaction suppose to consume stacks? any size stack comes out to 10 rum :s

That's a bug that can't be worked around, so yes.

Legless

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8721 on: January 20, 2013, 12:07:14 am »

Hey guys. I'm rather new in masterwork mod. It's awesome, but I had to edit raw myself as soon as some GUI-options (i.e disabling slag pit doesn't disable slag) don't work properly.
I had been confused by balance of the blunt weapons.
Here is a screenshot from arena testing. Hammerdwarves with wolfram and silver hammers vs Giant Tiger. Tiger is unconscious for a few minutes and all strikes hit the head. Is far as I remember - if hammer hits head, that hit is deadly. What the hack with it?



(clickable, I hope)
Logged

Tark

  • Bay Watcher
  • on what even did not?
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8722 on: January 20, 2013, 01:24:44 am »

Hey guys. I'm rather new in masterwork mod. It's awesome, but I had to edit raw myself as soon as some GUI-options (i.e disabling slag pit doesn't disable slag) don't work properly.
I had been confused by balance of the blunt weapons.
Here is a screenshot from arena testing. Hammerdwarves with wolfram and silver hammers vs Giant Tiger. Tiger is unconscious for a few minutes and all strikes hit the head. Is far as I remember - if hammer hits head, that hit is deadly. What the hack with it?



(clickable, I hope)


I had a caravan get ambushed by some frog macemen, the horses survived for 6 months unconscious and constantly getting hit.
Logged

SabbyKat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8723 on: January 20, 2013, 01:27:27 am »

Hey guys. I'm rather new in masterwork mod. It's awesome, but I had to edit raw myself as soon as some GUI-options (i.e disabling slag pit doesn't disable slag) don't work properly.
I had been confused by balance of the blunt weapons.
Here is a screenshot from arena testing. Hammerdwarves with wolfram and silver hammers vs Giant Tiger. Tiger is unconscious for a few minutes and all strikes hit the head. Is far as I remember - if hammer hits head, that hit is deadly. What the hack with it?



(clickable, I hope)

It's not fatal unless it does brain damage, but your weapon isn't penetrating deep enough. There could be a dozen reasons why (I swears I heard silver is bad for maces in the mod...), super weak dwarf who hits like a noodle, the tigers general 'size' (larger their head, I THINK the less damage you'll do). I'd say try to make something like a wolframite (if you have it) mace, and see if it does the same. I'll try to give a few silver maces a go in my game, too.
Logged

smakemupagus

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CANOPENDOORS]
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8724 on: January 20, 2013, 01:44:39 am »

If you look at the weapon raws, maces and warhammers should not be much worse than vanilla versions.  Mace in particular has only attacks that are strictly same or better than vanilla.    (not to say you guys aren't noticing a real difference - just that if so, it's likely something other than the weapon design.)

@SabbyKat:  i don't think the properties of silver have changed.

edit:  I think the factor is that in Masterwork (some? all?) creatures have not just a single "brain", but a layered structure Outerbrain:Brain.  Blows to the Outerbrain aren't fatal.  According to your data Blunt strikes perhaps don't penetrate enough to damage the sensitive inner part, at least not to a huge creature like a Giant tiger.  And then, since Dwarves will aim all strikes at an unconscious enemy to the head, they'll keep using ineffective attack over and again.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 02:01:47 am by smakemupagus »
Logged

Legless

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8725 on: January 20, 2013, 02:10:19 am »

Quote
It's not fatal unless it does brain damage, but your weapon isn't penetrating deep enough. There could be a dozen reasons why (I swears I heard silver is bad for maces in the mod...), super weak dwarf who hits like a noodle, the tigers general 'size' (larger their head, I THINK the less damage you'll do). I'd say try to make something like a wolframite (if you have it) mace, and see if it does the same. I'll try to give a few silver maces a go in my game, too.

Okay, I've made another experiment. 10 dwarves (adamantine hammers, adepts) vs Giant Tiger 1. In another cell I've placed 10 dwarves (wolfram hammers, adepts) vs Giant Tiger 2. Tigers had been knocked uncoscious roughly at the same time. One minute passed, no tigers were killed (I think there was enough time). Then I created two dwarves (21&22) with Novice Knife User and gave them crappy silver daggers. They did 3-4 strikes and made a lasthit.
Primary deduction: Blunt weapons (at least warhamers) are bad for lasthits of big creatures, only for supporting fractures. It's possible that density of material is not very significant as shear yeild of edged weapons. In such a case, I need to do more science.



Offtop: Is there an imagehost, which is supported by this forum? I mean "click&zoom", but not opening image in a new window.

===
Quote
I think the factor is that in Masterwork (some? all?) creatures have not just a single "brain", but a layered structure Outerbrain:Brain.  Blows to the Outerbrain aren't fatal.  According to your data Blunt strikes perhaps don't penetrate enough to damage the sensitive inner part, at least not to a huge creature like a Giant tiger.  And then, since Dwarves will aim all strikes at an unconscious enemy to the head, they'll keep using ineffective attack over and again.
Yeah, seems legit.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 02:12:45 am by Legless »
Logged

ElenaRoan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8726 on: January 20, 2013, 03:12:45 am »

answered the big poll.  Would like to point out that the only reason I don't use some buildings is because I haven't had a chance to yet.
Logged
Someone, get the bug zapper! What do you mean that won't work on a bug the size of a house which glows? No, I don't want to hear it. Just get the damn zapper.

TwilightWalker

  • Bay Watcher
  • I see you~
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8727 on: January 20, 2013, 03:13:07 am »

Huge wall of text.

Re:FPS :: Did you use the 'reveal hell' function of Dfhack? Or you could do a 'prospect all' command. What you're looking for is an Underworld Fortress or something of the like at the bottom of the list, or visible with reveal hell. I've found that hundreds of undead and demons spawn within even without you revealing it, leading it to utterly shutting down FPS.
Logged

Gamerlord

  • Bay Watcher
  • Novice GM
    • View Profile
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8728 on: January 20, 2013, 03:18:00 am »

Hey, don't know if this should go in the Kobold camp thread or not, but the scrimshaw shop is making spear throwers, slings and throwing gloves instead of the kobold daggers and bone shortspears.

Meph

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Unlocked Achievements
Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Bugfix, Graphics and Kobolds (and Linux/Mac OS)
« Reply #8729 on: January 20, 2013, 04:43:02 am »

@Gamerlord: I got several of those, seems the Kobold Camp author forgot items in his mod. I'll fix it for my version and told him. Thats a kobold camp bug, nothing to do with Masterwork.

@Legless: Blunt weapons are good to break bones through armor. So iron swords vs. steel armor should be bad, but iron hammers vs. steel armor should have a chance. I dont know how good/bad they are in other combat situations, but I did not chance the values from vanilla df too much.

@gn0rt0n: Goats need to graze (usually, if you have the setting on) so you need a aboveground pasture for them. You cant have them in the fort, you cant use them on maps without grass, like deserts or glaciers... and I guess I should raise the pet value a little bit on them. ;) But overall I dont think they are overrated. If you stuff 100 of them into a little room underground, yes. But grazing is the "harder farming" for animals, so to speak ;)

@SabbyKat: Indestrictuble armor can be made at the Researcher (random experiment), the Temple(sacrifice armor) and by moods. There are about 200 or so of these items... probably more. Mood only stuff that is unique.

FPS-drop: Do you have a safe from the first fort? I would like to see it, use some dfhack magic to see whats wrong.

Dragons: They have no changes since ever. Why is the text like this ? And use shields or fireproof stuff, like netherbark against them. Or archers... all the same as vanilla df.

Harder farming problem with aboveground plants: I noticed that as well, posted that yesterday. I will chance it. I took the numbers from the "seasonal crops" mod, but just like the kobold camp author, the author of this mod made mistakes. Will be fixed.

Fishpond: They are mostly for maps without water, to give fishers at least something to do. I know that normal fishing is a lot better, but that doesnt help you in a desert. And yes, I know that most people dont embark on treeless evil glacier deserts, without a volcano and no items and no water... but if they do, their fishers would be useless... so I gave them something to do ;) I wish I could simulate the fishpond filling up with time to be "harvested" but thats something I cant do.

@MiamiBryce: Its in the releasepost, the GUI, and in several places in the manual, under Settings and Utilities.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 07:22:56 am by Meph »
Logged
::: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - A comprehensive mod pack with 25% higher FPS :::
::: Accelerated DF - The FPS boost of Masterwork with no other changes :::
::: www.unlocked-achievements.com - Follow my bike tours around the world :::
- Donate -
Pages: 1 ... 580 581 [582] 583 584 ... 749