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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 393689 times)

Capntastic

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3615 on: May 27, 2012, 03:24:28 am »

Israel routinely acts like dicks

This is such a huge understatement, and it frustrates me how many people act with complete revulsion when you indicate that since its formation, Israel has launched "pre-emptive" attacks on most of their neighbors.  It's all more than a little unfortunate.
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Sheb

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3616 on: May 27, 2012, 03:37:14 am »

Although to be faire "acts like dicks" is much shorter than listing all the human right abuse, mass massacre and stuff they did aver the last few decades.
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Twi

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3617 on: May 27, 2012, 04:37:58 pm »

Israel routinely acts like dicks

This is such a huge understatement, and it frustrates me how many people act with complete revulsion when you indicate that since its formation, Israel has launched "pre-emptive" attacks on most of their neighbors.  It's all more than a little unfortunate.

Sadly, one could probably argue (and plenty of people probably do) that their neighbors are worse. Seems like there's no middle ground here: either people pay too much attention to Israel's bad stuff or too little. (If I recall correctly, there was supposedly at one point a rule in the UN saying that Israel had to be brought up every session. I am not making this up (though of course I may be mistaken).) Honestly, I don't know a ton about Israel's badness aside from preemptively attacking every time and the settlements in Palestine, the latter of which i can safely say are pretty damn stupid. And anti-Islamic sentiment...and stupid things done by ultra-orthodox communities...

Therefore:

Although to be faire "acts like dicks" is much shorter than listing all the human right abuse, mass massacre and stuff they did aver the last few decades.
Enlighten me! Too lazy to read through the whole site :P
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 04:47:38 pm by Twi »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3618 on: May 27, 2012, 04:48:06 pm »

We should probably move any Israeli-Arab Conflict discussion to another thread.
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Capntastic

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3619 on: May 27, 2012, 08:34:56 pm »

Israel routinely acts like dicks

This is such a huge understatement, and it frustrates me how many people act with complete revulsion when you indicate that since its formation, Israel has launched "pre-emptive" attacks on most of their neighbors.  It's all more than a little unfortunate.

Sadly, one could probably argue (and plenty of people probably do) that their neighbors are worse. Seems like there's no middle ground here: either people pay too much attention to Israel's bad stuff or too little. (If I recall correctly, there was supposedly at one point a rule in the UN saying that Israel had to be brought up every session. I am not making this up (though of course I may be mistaken).) Honestly, I don't know a ton about Israel's badness aside from preemptively attacking every time and the settlements in Palestine, the latter of which i can safely say are pretty damn stupid. And anti-Islamic sentiment...and stupid things done by ultra-orthodox communities...

Therefore:

Although to be faire "acts like dicks" is much shorter than listing all the human right abuse, mass massacre and stuff they did aver the last few decades.
Enlighten me! Too lazy to read through the whole site :P

I'll try to end this derail by posting all I really have to say about the subject.  If you want to continue discussion, make another thread, but this is my end of things:

In 1967 or sometime abouts Israel decided to bomb all of Egypts airfields, etc, then rolled in with (American Made) tanks and stuff 'just in case' Egypt was planning an attack.  In 1981, Israel launched an airstrike on Iraq, destroying a nuclear reactor they were building, 'just in case'.  These are known as The Six Day War and Operation Opera, respectively, and they're two of the major ones.  Israel attacks their neighbors, funded by America and armed with American weapons, and makes itself out to be the victim.  Again, if you were living in an apartment complex and you saw one of your neighbors, Israel, break into the homes of your neighbor Egypt and Iraq, attack them, and steal their possessions, would you not begin to feel a little terrified? Would you not want to sleep with a weapon by your door?  Especially when the landlord, America, someone who claims to want peace and quiet within the complex, gives Israel guns and free rent?  It's a stupid analogy, really, but it pretty much describes what is going on, I think. 

Again, the site I linked earlier shows the current 'score' with regards to Israel occupying the territories of those around it, bulldozing entire communities, etc.  Israel's actions are unjustifiable.
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Pnx

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3620 on: May 27, 2012, 10:07:37 pm »

You're forgetting all the activities of the Mossad which include such friendly things as abductions, assassinations (which they seem to prefer to do by indiscriminate bombings), and a healthy dose of torture.

Israel has a history of not being very nice to people... but to be entirely fair, its neighbours haven't been playing very nice with it either. The six day war started because Egypt was diverting a river away from Israel to prevent it getting water, and expelled UN peacekeepers and began mobilizing in the sinai peninsula (which was supposed to be a kind of DMZ). Israel attacked first to prevent Egypt from getting into a position to just roll into Israel. If they hadn't attacked when they did, there's a decent chance the war would have been much uglier.

A lot of their stuff is... difficult to excuse, but keep in mind there are two sides to the story.

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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3621 on: May 27, 2012, 10:14:33 pm »

This is a topic that will spiral out of control and end with Aqizzar imaging us again if it continues here. Once again, I suggest moving it to it's own thread.
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3622 on: May 27, 2012, 10:48:32 pm »

This is a topic that will spiral out of control and end with Aqizzar imaging us again if it continues here. Once again, I suggest moving it to it's own thread.
+1.
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Aqizzar

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3623 on: May 27, 2012, 11:08:26 pm »

Yeah, pretty much.  To be perfectly honest, it's part of why I don't check in very often.

I can't wait for some real American election news.  Interestingly enough, there's a round of local elections in my part of the country on Tuesday.  I know essentially nothing about any of the candidates.  Also, my phone is ringing off the goddamn hook from about five different campaigns, a good portion of them being robocalls which I'm fairly certain are illegal for cellphones.  I swear, you give one campaign some contact information, and the whole goddamn party is beating a path to your door for money for the next two years.
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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3624 on: May 28, 2012, 07:48:37 am »

Wow, lots of people discuss China in this "American Election Megathread", glad to see that.
你好菜鸟, 我們商榷中国因为中国非常重要美国政治. 请你原谅我笔调...我是 "菜鸟" 关于国语.  :P

Yeah, that reminds me of this  :P:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3625 on: May 29, 2012, 07:57:22 am »

...I'm half tempted to make that my new avatar.

So.....remember polls? They're back! (Actually, they never stopped, we just stopped paying attention to them.)

As expected, Obama's "I beat everybody, all day every day" lead in the general election has shrunk considerably as Republicans rally around their nearly-human overlord.

Recent polls:
Rasmussen: Romney +1
Gallup: Obama +2
ABC News/Washington Post: Obama +3
NBC News/Wall St. Journal: Obama +4
FOX News: Obama +7

Rasmussen, as I've noted many times, has a distinct record of being the outlier poll in tons of different races. Although part of the difference here is that Rasmussen was the only one to use "likely voters" for their sample base, as opposed to registered voters. Two other polls in early May used likely voters and both came up with narrow Romney leads. Of course, "likely" can be somewhat in the eye of the beholder. But it does speak of a small but palpable "enthusiasm gap" -- while the base of both parties are just kinda "meh...i'll vote for our guy but i'm not crazy about him", Romney benefits from a cluser of energized fringers who would vote for anyone or anything over Obama. Obama himself needs to recapture at least some of that lightning in a bottle that he had in 2008, to get the youth vote and get people on his side fired up again.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3626 on: May 29, 2012, 08:05:39 am »

Fox is reporting +7 for Obama? I realize the strategic value of making your opponent seem like a powerful force that you must all rally together to halt, but that's overkill. And obvious.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3627 on: May 29, 2012, 09:51:03 am »

While I can't speak for the accuracy of fox's polling accuracy I don't believe they rig the numbers.  They've showed things in Obama's favor in the past too.  I'd say that fox's poll is probably a bit of an outlier in Obama's favor but fox numbers tend to jump around a bit.

Rasmussen's early numbers are basically worthless IMHO.  For their late numbers you can get pretty accurate estimates by just shifting things about 2.5% towards the democrats.  But their early numbers tend to be inconsistent and have a bias compared to the other firms even after accounting for the LV model.  It should be noted that Rasmussen does robo polling unlike the other 4 polls listed.

These numbers are a bit better then the past few weeks so I'd say there's probably a bit of noise improving Obama's numbers a hair.  I'd say it's most likely a near even thing with Obama holding a very slight lead.  However the electoral college is likely to favor Obama compared to the popular vote so I'm cautiously optimistic about Obama's chances.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3628 on: May 29, 2012, 09:56:35 am »

Yeah I haven't had the time to look at state-level polls and extrapolate that to an electoral college result. I'm sure Nate Silver has been doing that a couple of times a day just for shits and giggles, and I'd defer to his Nate-ness any day.
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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3629 on: May 29, 2012, 10:05:20 am »

Unless Obama is found in a hotel bedroom with three Iatolas and Jim Kong Un, he's going to win. Let's not forget, Obama rode a giant eagle to Pakistan and personally ripped Osama's head off and kicked it so hard it flew back in time and killed Hitler.
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