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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 393690 times)

mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3600 on: May 24, 2012, 12:48:57 pm »

So Romney released his education plan.  Most interesting part is where families in public schools can apply to get money for supplemental education.  This money comes out of their public schools budget.  The public school has no say in it of course.  Rather reminds me of the republican plans to make medicare "wither on the vine" back in the 90s.  The plan then was to let healthy seniors spend all of medicare's money on the private market thus leaving medicare unable to cover it's obligations to those with high costs in the given year.
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Zrk2

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3601 on: May 24, 2012, 09:00:11 pm »

He's just keeping up with the Cardassians.

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palsch

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3602 on: May 25, 2012, 06:45:29 am »

So Romney released his education plan.  Most interesting part is where families in public schools can apply to get money for supplemental education.  This money comes out of their public schools budget.  The public school has no say in it of course.
Don't forget the claims that class size has no effect on educational outcomes.
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3603 on: May 25, 2012, 09:05:50 am »

So Romney released his education plan.  Most interesting part is where families in public schools can apply to get money for supplemental education.  This money comes out of their public schools budget.  The public school has no say in it of course.
Don't forget the claims that class size has no effect on educational outcomes.
Sweet mother of Zeus, no one let this man make any decisions whatsoever regarding education, because a line like that demonstrates irrevocably that he has no goddamn idea about the subject. At freaking all. Though it'd be nice to have the full context of the statement. I don't think it's even remotely possible to spin it in a positive light, but the chance should be had, I guess.

The news post that blog linked to had something pretty rage inducing about poor families and marriage, but I guess that line's fairly standard from the conservative side nowadays. My hands, they strangle the air involuntarily, seeking a throat to constrict.
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nenjin

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3604 on: May 25, 2012, 09:23:41 am »

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Sweet mother of Zeus, no one let this man make any decisions whatsoever regarding education, because a line like that demonstrates irrevocably that he has no goddamn idea about the subject.

Oh he knows exactly what he's doing. He's just applying his past experience in manipulating troubled assets into liquidation to the education system. If he makes the system hemorrhage money, eventually there'd be no option left except to sell it off, and by it I mean the DoE, to private education.
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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3605 on: May 25, 2012, 09:27:55 am »

China will also fail to become an unstoppable industrial powerhouse when the first waves of really old people start relying on Chinese state healthcare

With that in mind, China's economic planners are well aware of history and trying to discourage the kind of profligate spending that helped damage Japan's economy

...Aaaand suddenly China's heavy grants to the "traditional medicine" business makes total sense. They can't get old if their "treatments" fail to keep them alive first, right?
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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3606 on: May 25, 2012, 11:28:10 am »

Imagine if we did the same thing to education we did to the prison system? Private public schools, funded by the government. Of course, there are differences. Instead of having to hold people, we'd have to keep people in school and make them educated. Which in practice just means that tests will become little more than an elaborate roll call.

I imagine such a system would work if funding for schools was based off of the ultimate income of the graduates. Imagine if after you left school, some small percentage of your income went directly back to the schools you studied in. If you schools made you a skilled doctor and you made a lot of money, well that's great, and you'll make plenty of money, and some of it would ultimately move the system forward.

Oh wait, that's just taxes.
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Zangi

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3607 on: May 25, 2012, 12:00:23 pm »

Do not worry citizens, we shall still have the technical expertise to do everything in America.  We may just have an influx of edumacated people from Mainland Asia to help us out in the future.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3608 on: May 25, 2012, 12:03:46 pm »

China will also fail to become an unstoppable industrial powerhouse when the first waves of really old people start relying on Chinese state healthcare

With that in mind, China's economic planners are well aware of history and trying to discourage the kind of profligate spending that helped damage Japan's economy

...Aaaand suddenly China's heavy grants to the "traditional medicine" business makes total sense. They can't get old if their "treatments" fail to keep them alive first, right?
That won't work either. An unhealthy workforce doesn't work very well. China's massive environmental damage is going to catch up with them soon, and if they aren't ready to transition to a more sustainable industry it'll bring economic collapse.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3609 on: May 25, 2012, 05:13:55 pm »

That won't work either. An unhealthy workforce doesn't work very well. China's massive environmental damage is going to catch up with them soon, and if they aren't ready to transition to a more sustainable industry it'll bring economic collapse.

Western countries used to have environmental problems as bad as China does now before we cleaned up our act.  It didn't lead to economic collapse, just a lot of human suffering and the loss of some natural resources.
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Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3610 on: May 25, 2012, 05:19:35 pm »

That won't work either. An unhealthy workforce doesn't work very well. China's massive environmental damage is going to catch up with them soon, and if they aren't ready to transition to a more sustainable industry it'll bring economic collapse.

Western countries used to have environmental problems as bad as China does now before we cleaned up our act.  It didn't lead to economic collapse, just a lot of human suffering and the loss of some natural resources.
And China isn't doing much to get away from it. It'll get worse, and eventually there will be a breaking point, such as factory workers and farmers shooting at government officials. Some of that is already happening.
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cainiao

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3611 on: May 26, 2012, 11:13:35 am »

Wow, lots of people discuss China in this "American Election Megathread", glad to see that.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3612 on: May 26, 2012, 01:27:07 pm »

That won't work either. An unhealthy workforce doesn't work very well. China's massive environmental damage is going to catch up with them soon, and if they aren't ready to transition to a more sustainable industry it'll bring economic collapse.

Western countries used to have environmental problems as bad as China does now before we cleaned up our act.  It didn't lead to economic collapse, just a lot of human suffering and the loss of some natural resources.
And China isn't doing much to get away from it. It'll get worse, and eventually there will be a breaking point, such as factory workers and farmers shooting at government officials. Some of that is already happening.
Not entirely true. In many cases, when they're putting in brand new infrastructure, they're going the extra mile to make it more sustainable and "green", figuring (rightly) that they're going to have to eventually anyways, and since that kind of infrastructure is more expensive, why not do it when you're flush with cash?

Secondly, it's an issue of energy dependence. China has a 75% urbanization target for 2050, mostly in three mega-city complexes:
Bay of Bohai region (Beijing, Tianjin, and assorted metros)
Yellow River Delta (Shanghai, Hangzhou, Nanjing, etc.)
Pearl River Delta (Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong Kong, etc.)

There's also a secondary urbanization hub in Sichuan, around a Chongqing-Chengdu axis that would likely be mostly heavy industry/military in focus.

If they don't find a way to make energy-efficient, low-impact mega-cities, they're going to be literally devouring every last chunk of coal and drop of oil on the planet just to keep them running. And choking on their own waste in the process. That's why the national government is sinking a ton of yuan into R&D in this kind of stuff.

Now, that said....as always in China, the problem is that no matter how good of an idea or how altruistic the national government might be, the devil of the problem is getting local officials to follow the plan (remember the bit I mentioned about an official painting a quarry green to "comply" with directives?). The other problem is the inevitable economic ripple effects. For instance, let's say that they build 100 large-scale coal gas plants, each generating 650Mw. All that electricity could heat a lot of houses, removing the need for them to use the ubquitous bitumen cakes (China's coal is almost entirely bituminous, as opposed to cleaner-burning anthracite). However, there are tens of thousands of Chinese who make and sell these bitumen cakes as their livelihood. They're out of a job. There are various other technologies that will improve quality of life (and environmental quality) for many Chinese, but are going to put people out of work. Managing that problem is going to be crucial -- ignore too many of them, and you wind up with the seeds for a neo-Luddite social revolt.

Another reason they've got to go green is that as much coal as China produces (48% of the world total), they've only got about a 50-year reserve left at the current rate. That means they've got 50 years to develop the infrastructure for wind, hydro, nuclear, etc. and shift the country to it, or the Chinese success story is going to grind to an earth-shattering halt. I know that some people look at the scenario and recall Japan in the 1930's and the fact that their industrialization was hampered by a critical shortage of oil, and the ramifications that ended up having. I don't see that happening with China, because their histories and national character are so different. A more realistic proposition is that they'll use trade and investment to strip Africa clean of resources first.


To kind of rerail, this is why I wish to god Huntsman had managed to stay in the race longer. Romney's stance on China seems to be the classic Republican "we need to be wary of the inscrutable ChiComs" stance, and Obama's is more of a puzzled laissez-faire attitude that's more concerned with human rights issues and trade. I don't particularly subscribe to other, although Obama's is at least less dangerous. I think we need to be actively engaged, we need to be offering assistance in technical issues that benefit both countries (like environmental technology), we need to quietly maintain pressure on internal reforms but have the sense not to publicly call them out on things and make their job that much more difficult because of the inevitable "national pride" backlash, and most of all we need to recognize that China is entitled to a certain sphere of influence along their borders. I worry (especially with Republican administrations) that Taiwan could be become what Israel is: an alliance with one small state in an unfriendly neighborhood that we maintain mostly for historical reasons rather than any current realpolitik reasons.


Wow, lots of people discuss China in this "American Election Megathread", glad to see that.
你好菜鸟, 我們商榷中国因为中国非常重要美国政治. 请你原谅我笔调...我是 "菜鸟" 关于国语.  :P
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Zrk2

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3613 on: May 26, 2012, 09:19:53 pm »

Wow, lots of people discuss China in this "American Election Megathread", glad to see that.
你好菜鸟, 我們商榷中国因为中国非常重要美国政治. 请你原谅我笔调...我是 "菜鸟" 关于国语.  :P

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Hello rookie, we are open to question because China is very important in American politics. Please forgive my tone ... I'm a "rookie" on the Mandarin.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3614 on: May 27, 2012, 02:51:24 am »

Is there some sort of environmental technology that we are keeping from the Chinese, Redking?

There's also a pretty big difference between Taiwan and Israel.  Israel routinely acts like dicks and we continue to back them up.  The Taiwanese on the other hand don't do anytime more offensive to the Chinese then existing.  They haven't even declared independence yet.

Taiwan is also much easier to support then Israel since it is an island.  It would take decades of China continuing to build up the surface navy and ASW capabilities before defending Taiwan becomes more then an afterthought.  And if we actually do get to the point where China has that sort of military capability and relations between the US and China are bad enough for it to actually matter then Taiwan would probably be a useful ally to have.
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Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.
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