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Author Topic: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.  (Read 515768 times)

Arx

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10035 on: September 14, 2018, 01:28:09 am »

Don't worry, the general consensus seems to be that it's an unmitigated piece of garbage anyway, so it's not like you're the only one finding it confusing. :P
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Th4DwArfY1

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10036 on: September 14, 2018, 04:23:01 am »

Not your best? Certainly. Unmitigated disaster? I think not.
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Cathar

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10037 on: September 14, 2018, 06:36:16 am »

It is a piece of work you did without a reference. It doesn't shine as much as your other work because of that, but for that reason, to me it is more valuable.
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Arx

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10038 on: September 14, 2018, 08:06:49 am »

Most of my work that isn't explicitly portraiture, and even some of that, is actually without direct reference - that is, I'll consult images to check how the reflections off a material look or some precise detail of anatomy, but not particularly replicating any given element. This was basically entirely unreferenced except the pose, for instance. This was drawn 80% from imagination as well (and has its fair share of flaws arising from that, but none that actually make it look bad IMO - just a bit weird if you think too hard about the lighting).

This one is just... not great. It happens. It's just tilting when I pile the hours into a piece and at the end I look at it and go "well, this sucks". :P
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10039 on: September 14, 2018, 08:56:14 am »

Maybe it's time to work on your figure construction?

The main problem here seems to be a combination of things at weird angles/seeming to adhere to different perspectives (like the plane that her feet are resting on which gives her a kind of "floating" vibe) and odd body proportions (a large head/face with no ears, big calves, and a general litheness that could be considered "too tall")

I THINK that this is a pretty easy fix--if you just spend some time to A.) draw the armature and B.) define the volume at a unified perspective, I think that you'll find your painting is more than up to snuff.

It's really important to practice figure w/o reference too y'know (seriously, referencing things take an inordinate amount of time, and not only that, but your referenced pictures will become much better with figure construction as well), and that's why constructing your figures is so important.
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Arx

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10040 on: September 14, 2018, 10:43:47 am »

Spoiler: Initial sketch layer (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty comfortable with the anatomy here. The majority of the issues are with her face, which is something I've commented on before elsewhere:

Quote
Actually, this happens any time I draw a full-body concept: the face is quite small, more so in previews, which makes it difficult to work with, and at the same time people will often disproportionately assess an artwork by the face - which is fair enough, but it means that I could be really happy with everything else and mangle the face and still have something of a “commercial” failure.

It's got its share of issues elsewhere, and there are some definite spots of jank I can easily identify - particularly regarding the form and lighting - but because human brains are wired so hard to look at faces the whole thing gets dragged down much more by a lackluster face than anything else.
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Parsely

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10041 on: September 14, 2018, 12:57:55 pm »

You're a hard worker Arx, you're getting ahead of yourself a little though.

You need to use reference and practice anatomy more before you can expect a human body drawn from imagination to look well proportioned. Stop practicing bad anatomy and use a reference, I beg you! Your anatomy in your initial sketch could improve a lot, the perspective is also an issue but that can be fixed at the same time as anatomy practice. If you don't mind I'd like to red line this drawing when I have time.

Your brushwork is really quite good and your colors are as well, I can see the ideas that you have and that's what makes me wish you would practice life drawing some more because you have the abilities that would let you benefit strongly from it.

Yes the face is very important, it's usually the first place we look when we're assessing another person. It's also one of the hardest parts of a human to get right because of how important it is.

Arx

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10042 on: September 14, 2018, 01:55:44 pm »

This is beginning to frustrate me, so I am going to say this once, to both of you, and request that you stop critiquing me when I don't ask for it:

The anatomy is referenced. If you think it is bad, it is because the perspective is (obviously) not particularly well conveyed by the basic silhouette, and I did botch the lighting in a couple of places giving the impression that things are weirdly proportioned.

No, Urist, I will not stop using references when I need them. That would be dumb. I believe I made it fairly clear that when I reference something, I'm not slavishly copying it. Using reference is not a bad thing, and far from slowing me down, it does the opposite. I've tested it.

No, Parsely, I'm not trying to draw from imagination. The perspective is, in fact, fine in principle - I slipped in execution.

The kicker here is that I have one of you telling me to use reference more and one of you telling me I need to use reference less. The only thing that makes me happier than unsolicited critique is when the peanut gallery starts arguing about what's wrong with the painting.

If you don't mind I'd like to red line this drawing when I have time.

Don't.



I realise this may come off as harsh, but when I post an artwork and say I'm not happy with it I get just a little tilted when people jump in with

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you're getting ahead of yourself ("go home kid, you can't play with the grown-ups")
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Stop practicing bad anatomy ("you're bad. git gud")
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It's really important to practice figure w/o reference too y'know ("I know you think you know what you're doing, but you really don't")
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I THINK that this is a pretty easy fix--if you just spend some time to A.) draw the armature and B.) define the volume at a unified perspective ("oh, this is easy. Just fix everything I think is wrong and the painting will look good")

especially in the thread that is not for critique. I'd like to be allowed to acknowledge the varying quality of my own work without having people try and ram criticism down my throat in bulk.



There are times when I do want critique. At those times, I ask for it. Right now, I do not want critique. I spend far too much time and emotional energy on work for my relaxing hobby to turn into something I have to dread sharing with the world.
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Th4DwArfY1

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10043 on: September 14, 2018, 02:18:30 pm »

You had three people willing to put time and effort into helping you. Whether or not help was wanted, your response seems disproportionately cool.

They're not tearing you down or insulting you, they are giving constructive advice and you cannot expect them to know that you are so ill disposed towards seeing it.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 02:20:49 pm by Th4DwArfY1 »
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Arx

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10044 on: September 14, 2018, 02:32:53 pm »

It's generally accepted as standard in the art world that unsolicited critique is impolite. That goes even further when there is a thread for those seeking critique. I've also established why I'm particularly unhappy with the way they've presented their critiques.

I probably am being too harsh, and I apologise, but I am sick and tired of never being able to share art on a non-screaming-into-the-void platform without immediately receiving criticism on a broad spectrum from "really useful" to "destructively incompetent". It's usually the former, here, but it's still dispiriting to only ever receive negative feedback.
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Shook

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10045 on: September 14, 2018, 03:51:56 pm »

Well, for what it's worth at this point (and i hope i don't come off as condescending to anyone here, that's not my intention), allow me to at least jump in and offer some potential encouragement: The colouring's actually pretty good; unlike some of your earlier stuff, there's definitely hue shifting going on in the shading here. It's really only the eyes that don't quite match up in the head/shoulder region, the rest is on point, and the hat is ridiculously well rendered (dat level of detail on the emblem). Cloth folds also seem to be an ongoing strong point for you, which i kind of envy. :v

I'm going to state some probably extremely obvious things here, but i feel the need to say them, so you may disregard at your leisure: I do believe it's important to not beat around the bush with critiques, but it's also important to give props were due, else it just becomes exhausting for the recipient. Some critics (not pointing fingers here, y'all are fine in my book) take pride in being as scathing and caustic as possible, which i honestly don't have respect for. Direct and fair is good; if a cake tastes great but looks weird, it's not really fair to only highlight how weird it looks, but it should of course be mentioned alongside its great taste.

also i personally appreciate (well intentioned) unsolicited critique but obviously my opinion isn't necessarily shared by others
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Cathar

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10046 on: September 14, 2018, 03:56:23 pm »

Guys sorry to jump in, but Arx is completely right and I share the feeling.

Also, sorry Arx if what I said hurt you. This was not my intention and I totally understand the reaction. You have your shit together, I appreciate to see your stuff in general and I hope to see more soon.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:06:12 pm by Cathar »
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10047 on: September 14, 2018, 04:37:10 pm »

???

(@Arx) Bro, not only has your response been "disproportionately cool", you are being the dick.

Let's logic this out. You post a picture:

The response is initially positive.

You say, hey this piece is an "UNMITIGATED DISASTER".

Nobody has said anything like that.

Cathar says don't beat yourself up.

You say thanks, but it's still "not great" and I'm mad because I spent a lot of time on it.

I say work on your figure construction and "you will find that your painting is up to snuff".
*I'm gonna get into your anatomy in a minute

You respond that the face is the main issue, which honestly, other than it being slightly oversized, looks really good.

Parsley jumps in and says okay, but proper anatomy IS important.
*now keep in mind, up until this point, you have not expressed anything other than dissatisfaction with your picture.

You go off, defend your work, and make some strange claims:
--one, the only thing either of us actually suggested was to plot out your anatomy--and we gave examples of where else you were good
--you claim that you are upset, because we offered criticism, BECAUSE YOU WERE UPSET WITH YOUR DRAWING. Why would we NOT try to help you out?
--then you LITERALLY, with a side by side comparison, change our words to fit YOUR narrative.

[end]

And now, let me actually get in to your anatomy. Because truthfully, it seems like it's the MAIN THING holding your art back.

And because you were a dick, let me be explicitly clear: your initial sketch is not good enough.

And let me be even clearer, you are not in any way plotting out your picture (from what I can see). We told you WHY it looks off, and then we told you how to fix it. You're just drawing an outline without critically examining your own proportions, and let me tell you, it's extremely difficult for even veteran artists to just "eyeball" outlines. People spend literal YEARS doing nothing but figure drawing and still can't just draw accurately via outlines. (and guess what, constructing your figures is probably not only easier it will look better.)

My suggested tips were to:
-- construct an armature, i.e. shoulders, hips, spine, limb lines, and a circle for the head.

-- to use shapes to suggest volume to your work before you start painting it (for your own utility)

No one "rammed critique down your throat." It was not harsh and was in-fact presented fairly. And honestly, it wasn't extensive either, again, we LITERALLY just said you should plan out your figure more before painting it.

Listen, I get that this is your hobby, and you are in no means obligated to follow our advice, but we just acted in accordance in how YOU YOURSELF were responding to the art that was posted. As you seemed to be displeased with the result, again, why would we NOT help you? So now you know what a fair, calm, and gentle critique looks like, and a standard one (despite you being a douche, I would still very much like to see you get better--after all, its your hobby, and it sucks to see anyone dismayed at something they're making). If you want a harsh critique, I can give it to you lol. If you are having a bad day or something, I totally get it, but I'm just letting you know, no one is attacking you here, and everything that has been said has been meant literally and as far I can tell seems legitimately constructive.

As far as unsolicited criticism goes, you seemed upset, we offered ways to change things up next time. And again, you seemed PRETTY upset (unmitigated disaster when literally no one said anything). FURTHERMORE, this kinda is the thread for art criticism, people have just always posted art here and people have always discussed it or tried to make it better or help others work on it in a constructive way. The Art Critique thread was created very recently, and honestly, it's not really used for much other than more technical criticism (or my misguided attempts to get input on my portfolio/whacky ideas). This is just where art goes, and wherever art goes, people talk about it. No one is cutting you down to size or insulting you, we're just having a friendly chat. And the fact is this: once your art is out in the world, people talk about it. If you don't want it to be talked about, tell us, or don't post it. Despite what you said earlier, Bay12 is EXACTLY the place where people want to talk about art in depth.

tl;dr:
If you're having a bad day, I sympathize, but no one is attacking you,
you're art is good and you should keep creating things,
and the criticism has been gentle and valid.
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Cathar

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10048 on: September 14, 2018, 04:38:22 pm »

guys

seriously

Arx asked nicely.

I mean when an artist says "please do not criticize", it should be the end of it. You will not achieve anything but create a bad mood by refusing to let this die.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:42:37 pm by Cathar »
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Random Things you drew/shopped/made/etc.
« Reply #10049 on: September 14, 2018, 04:40:38 pm »

No. He didn't.

EDIT: @Cathar, that is NOT what happened. He literally didn't say that until way after the fact. And to be fair, we stopped after our initial critiques. The only other thing that was said was by who TH4 who was like ya they're not being dicks.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:46:25 pm by Urist McScoopbeard »
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