Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 20

Author Topic: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2 - WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO?!?!?!  (Read 24581 times)

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile

Since the original creator of this succession appears to have abandoned it we where forced to oversee the game's progression ourselves.  After two weeks of self governing the players and readers decided it was in everyone's best interested to create a 2nd thread run by an active poster to keep everything organized and up to date.  Without further ado, the new thread:

Inspired by recent events, this succession game will have a little... twist. We will be playing Vanilla with a few select races from Fortress Defense included*, and on a good mountain range with a volcano included. Here are the rules:
Code: [Select]
1)   Don't kill the fort. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN FOLLOWING RULE #3
2)   Kindly update frequently, even if it is just to say you can't update at the moment.
2.5) One year is one turn.
3)   You must leave a... present for the next player. It could be a water-based time bomb that will destroy the booze stockpile (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88862.0), or a pressure plate that activates those spikes hidden in that corner, or some other shenanigans. However, make sure that it is in some way recoverable! Don't flood the whole thing with magma!
3b)  Your "present" cannot make use of raw edits or hacking programs in any way.

(*: Beak Wolves, Frogmen, Tigermen, Badgermen)

And with that, sign up now! Turn list and traps made are below.

The original thread can be found here.

I really can't stress the frequent posting thing enough.  Regardless of how pointless your post is, PLEASE give us a sign of life.  We've had too many people disappear for 2 weeks only to say "Oh, i thought you where just gonna skip me..." or "I totally forgot it was my turn!!!".  Just let us know that you still have the file, are still intending on doing your turn and updating.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 12:03:33 pm by Ifeno »
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 03:48:49 pm »

And the turn list!

Link = DONE!
Yellow = In Progress
Red = Skipped for some reason

1) Crazy Cow
2) A Spoony Bard
3) ImBocaire
4) Demonic Spoon
5) TheOddDemon
6) ZeHive
7) andyman564
8) billybobfred
9) BodyGripper
10) Urist_McArthos
11) Roctiv
12) noodle0117
13) davros
14) peregarrett
15) Ifeno
16) ignatzami
17) Supercharizad
18) Mego*
19) Mekboy
20) ashton1993
21) qqq122
22) BeforeLifer
23) TSTwizby
24) antymatter
25) Epithemius
26) Din 182
27) slowpokez
28) Harry959
29) Cellmonk
30) Tulx
31) Brewster
32) TheWetSheep
33?) ashton1993
34?) peregarrett

If you wish to join, please PM me instead of posting here! I don't want to miss anyone.

Please do NOT pm Crazy Cow.  Pm ME, Ifeno, instead as I am the one updating this thread, OR post and ask to be added.

*Mego did his turn however i couldnt find the link to his save.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 11:49:42 am by Ifeno »
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 03:49:33 pm »

@NightS
I'm sure people will be posting screenshots of those, if nothing else. Turns are available to all that want them!

If nobody else makes a vote in the next few hours, I'm going to go ahead and embark. The profile will look like this:
Code: [Select]
100 food 1
100 food 2
150 drink 1
150 drink 2
2 picks
1 axe
5 ropes
5 buckets
30 stones
30 logs
15 cloth
15 silk
3 dogs
3 chickens
1 cat

2 miners
1 woodcutter/carpenter
1 mason/building designer
1 mechanic/building designer
1 farmer/herbalist
1 metalsmith/building designer
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 03:50:49 pm »

NOTE: I do a lot more talking than picturing, so bear with me. I'll have pictures of everything important (except for a little surprise) at the end of the year.

1st of Granite
Kel Likotasmel, Expedition Leader

As planned, we arrived on the first of Granite. The mountains here are covered in snow, the ponds are frozen over, and a chill is in the air. A quick survey of the area reveals much.
There is little soil here, unfortunately. We must find some way of irrigating some farmland. The volcano is actually below ground level a bit of a ways, and there is a pretty formation as the scraps of stone cling to the air high above us. We can make out veins of hematite, praise Armok, as well as some malachite and enormous chunks of marble. this place will be perfect.
There is a sort of hill just a little ways off from the main mountain. That is where we shall make our home. I ordered the miners to clear the sloped sides off to make it more defendable and to begin carving an entrance and basic rooms. Our woodworker, Meng, is cutting down trees now, and our mason has set up a little workshop and is producing the furniture we will need. I cannot do anything at the moment, as the snow has covered all signs of plants here, so I shall simply oversee everything. There is a Giant Eagle soaring in the skies above us; I trained our dogs to fight while brainstorming ways to capture those beasts. Attached is a rough sketch of our embark.



@TheOddDemon:
Whatever tilesets you use have no effect on the next player, as far as I know. Have at it!
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 03:51:16 pm »

1st of Hematite
"Crazy Cow" Likotasmel, Expedition Leader
Seasonal Fortress Report

We have tunneled out the basics our fortress will need. We have a dining room furnished with tables and chairs, a dormitory set aside, and we have dug out extensive pockets of silt to create room for stockpiles. As I write this, we are moving food into the fortress proper.
Other than the deposits we can see in the cliff, we have struck no metals. Our fortress is dacite with small pockets of orpiment, although an inconvenient loam deposit got in the way of our workshop area. Once the caverns are breached and spores begin floating in, that place will look like care bears came and puked all over it.
I began to set up a farm before I realized that I had forgotten to bring any seeds. Bashing my head into the dacite wall, I told the diggers to mine up to the top of the hill, the mason to create a shelter, and set out to dig up some plants. I found several specimens starting to sprout up through the snow, although nothing edible yet. We killed the mule and water buffalo that were given to us by the Mountainhomes, and chained a war dog next to the entrance.
Once migrants arrive, I'm going to get them to smooth and engrave the whole thing here, and I will set up some magma forges before Fall. Then, exploratory mining will commence, and hopefully we will find some good hematite veins.
However, I am sure that, despite my wonderful job here, I will be replaced as leader of this outpost. That will not happen, at least not without a fight from me. If I am forced down, I will make life difficult for whoever succeeds me, and I know exactly how.


I was thinking of doing something tame, A Spoony Bard, like putting the refuse stockpile in the dining room and turning on outside refuse gathering, but I have something more... devious in mind. I hope you like spikes.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 03:52:03 pm »

1st of Hematite
"Crazy Cow" Likotasmel, Expedition Leader
Seasonal Fortress Report

Oh Armok no.
A few days after my last seasonal report, the badgers came. A whole swarm of giant badgers descended upon us like a berserk hurricane. Our metalsmith was viciously ravaged before he got dragged away. I ordered everyone inside and locked the doors. The badgers, outside, could do nothing.
I ordered the miners to carve out the area underneath our wagon, and just as that was finished a wave of migrants arrived. They managed to sneak past the badgers into the fortress; our population is now sixteen. A strategically placed support held the wagon up while we prepared, then collapsed it into a small chamber. We quickly organized the supplies and got Udib, the metalsmith, settled in.
I set three dwarves to start smoothing every rock in this place, and the miners to dig out our magma furnaces. The badger invasion has demonstrated our need of a military, and I want that done as soon as possible.
I found some wild strawberries, and after eating them I told the mason to build a shelter on top of the hill. With that done, I have begun to plant strawberries, safe from any invaders that might attack. Strawberries are better than plump helmets, anyway.
The magma furnaces were finished just before Autumn. The large chamber has a channel down the center, which taps into the nearby volcano. It will be a simple matter to add magma forges as needed. Also, the aquifer was discovered and tapped as a water source for Udib and any future wounded. A makeshift hospital was set up in the corner of the dormitory; we have no doctors yet, but it will be stocked soon.
Production for plan "Fuck You Next Overseer" is in progress as we speak.

Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 03:52:33 pm »

1st of Moonstone
"Crazy Cow" Likotasmel, Expedition Leader
Seasonal Fortress Report

Not much happened this season. I have our miners exploring for minerals, and a few forges set up. A glassmaker went into a fey mood and made a perfect green glass gem. Our population was boosted to twenty-two. The traders from the mountainhomes arrived. Despite having 300 Dorfbucks in profit, they refused my trades, saying they couldn't imagine me ending up with all those goods. I deconstructed the trade depot out from under them and told them to fuck themselves.

Final update is tomorrow!
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 03:53:36 pm »

1st of Granite
"Crazy Cow" Likotasmel, Expedition Leader
Seasonal Fortress Report

They have replaced me. Spring has come, and with it a letter from the Mountainhomes naming my successor. I unlocked the doors, checked that everything was in place, and handed the letter over to A Spoony Bard with a smile on my face.
We found several pockets of metal in the mountains, and have access to both iron and copper now. There is plenty of marble, so steel production will not be far away. We also have broken into the caverns, and moss is starting to spring up in the stockpile area. Due to complaints that I was being an "elf," I abandoned the strawberry farm and set up a plump helmet farm across from the food stockpiles.
Everything has been smoothed and engraved by our small team of engravers, and everyone is ecstatic about the dining room. I set up some graves in some side chambers down in the magma forge, as several pets are starving due to to the lack of food and I'll be damned if I will put in the effort needed to stop them from dying. Our food stocks, however, are still going strong. Booze has started to run low, so I ordered someone with a bit of brewing experience to set up shop.
It started snowing again. It has never gotten cold enough to melt the ice, although a cold rain in the summer washed away most of the snow. The only water source is our aquifer, which is actually the bast-case scenario in my humble opinion.
So, as this is my last report as fortress overseer, I have included rough sketches of the main points of interest. Have fun, A Spoony Bard.

Here is the fortress proper, including the dining room, dormitory/hospital, and the stockpiles.

Magma furnace and morgue.

Fortress entrance.


@noodle0117
Why, what makes you think that? :P

By the way, every save is going to be up on the OP so that we can revert if something gets out of hand, and also so that everyone can marvel at the deathtraps that people make. When you finish your turn, kindly message me with a link to the uploaded file (use DFFD).
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 03:55:58 pm »

The following post is a part of an omited/skipped turn.  It has been posted here for the sake of having a complete archive of all updates.

1st of Granite
Today's my first day as the overseer, so the first thing I order was a thorough search of the fort, for any hidden traps of some kind. Obviously, I was right to be paranoid, one of the hallways was filled with upright spears. I ordered them to be deconstructed for the safety of the fort. 
(Note to Crazy Cow: The Trap was a good Idea, but given that this is a fort made specifically to screw the next player over, did you not expect me to unhide things :P? Also, I'd like to note that I could've also found them through the room menu. I have a plan for my trap so that despite being obvious, it'll also be unavoidable.)
4th of Granite
All the spears have been deconstructed. While I was walking back to the dining room, I noticed a Pressure plate. I ordered it to be deconstructed.
15th of Granite
I have decided to big deeper and move the dormitory/sleeping area. The hospital, however, will stay where it is.
18th of Granite
Problem: There was damp stone where we started digging down. I instead decided to build the dormitory on the same level as the magma forges.
3rd of Slate
Migrants arrived today, about 8 of them. One of them was a miner, so we're bound to get work done faster.
10th of Slate
Etur Imushakil, a mechanic, And the expedition leader, Crazy Cow go married today. They didn't have any celebrations.
17th of Slate
A Glazer Suddenly withdrew from society today, and then claimed that he owned a Craftsdwarf's shop. Next the maniac started grabbing wood and boulders from around the fort.
21st of Slate
The maniac started building something out of all the seemingly random materials he claimed.
25th of Slate
The Maniac finally finished what he was working on.
He made a crown made from Pine Wood, decorated with Pine Wood and Sheep Wool, and encircled with bands of Willow Wood and Buffalo Bone.
13th of Felsite
All of the Magma Smelters, Kilns, etc. are built.
16th of Felsite
There are more then enough beds to support every Dwarf in our Fortress, but the dwormitory still isn't finished...
17th of Felsite
An elven caravan just arrived.
Coincidentally, I just created a militia to protect the fort.
The elves will make glorious target practice.
18th of Felsite
Coincidentally, one of the merchants died directly on top of a wooden log.
1st Hematite
The Recruits are still chasing around one of the merchant outside.
(Ending this update. Funnily enough, the Maniac from earlier has three pages in his combat report solely composed of him punching a donkey in the head.)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:59:30 pm by Ifeno »
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 03:59:44 pm »

The following is found carved into a wooden bedstead.

Log of Udib "ImBocaire" Aniteb, Dead Weight

So my foot got taken off by a giant badger as soon as I got to this Godforsaken place. I thought it couldn't get any worse. So imagine my surprise when I see, from my bed, that crazy cow Crazy Cow designing an intricately disguised pressure plate and hooking it up to numerous spikes!

That night, when he came in to check on my wound, I knocked him out with a headbutt, forged a note in his handwriting giving me control of the fortress, and decided to set things aright. (What? I'm crippled, doesn't mean I'm handicapped.)

First order of business: Get rid of that damned pressure plate before someone gets hurt.



Next I took stock of the fortress, and HOLY SHITNUGGETS that's a lot of meat for such a tiny fort.



Not sure all of it is palatable, though. I'm liking the regular meat, the organs are palatable, but... what? Firefly brain? Cave spider brain? Who the hell fills a barrel with meticulously cut-out insect brains? This shit's going to need to get cooked for me to even consider eating it.

Now then! Next is the most important. I'm not going to languish here forever, dammit! I need a way to move around so I can get back to work!

...is what I'd like to say, but I've got a bum hand and my back is aching and oooh, this is a comfy bed.  I guess I'll just order some ore to be smelted. How much ore do we have, anyway... what? What is this shit? Medium precision? Hell naw, you get back in that office and you tell me exactly how many pebbles we have lying around here.



Well, my preliminary planning is done. Time to relax in my comfortable bed and let the peons do their work.

OOC: This fort is actually surprisingly well put-together. I guess because so far it only reflects one person's ideas and has yet to become an unholy amalgam of ten different overseers' mutually exclusive visions. I haven't actually unpaused yet, just designated some things and saved... I'll start actually playing this evening after my physics lab is over.

EDIT: Yes, just to clarify, I dwarfed myself as the metalsmith who got mauled by giant badgers in Crazy Cow's turn.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 04:01:52 pm »

The following is found scratched into a stone wall next to a carved-up wooden bed.

Well, okay. What the hell.



That ramp right there is our grand entrance. Through the refuse stockpile, past some starving chained-up dogs, and through a horrible, horrible clutter. People LIVE here, guys; let's try to make them feel wanted, eh?

In fact, if what I've been hearing is true, a lot more people are about to start living here. Communal bedrooms are great and all, but I think we lack a little something in the charm department. I'm moving the sleeping space downward and giving people bedrooms. The new grand staircase will start in our surprisingly attractive forge room.



Eleven levels distant from the bustle of the surface... that seems good.



Also, we apparently found some caverns during Crazy Cow's rule. If I'm right about the lay of the land around here, there may be a couple more even deeper in the earth, with colorful wood and strange wildlife ripe for the harvest.

Thus ends First Granite. My planning is over, and it is time for action.

EDIT: Joyous news!



Maybe if Crazy Cow is getting a nightly spearing from her husband, she'll feel less of a need to spear everyone in the fortress.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 04:03:43 pm »

One of our spares, a gem setter by trade, is seized by a burst of inspiration.



After grabbing two precious fire opals and a black pyrope, he sets to work.



I can only hope that his efforts are useful to the fortress.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 04:04:28 pm »

25th Granite



The gem setter finished his magnum opus. It's a harp, cunningly carved from a single massive precious fire opal.



Truly an astounding piece of work. What's more, he has gained great insight into the ways of using gems to embellish items.



I've decided to carve out some stockpile space beneath the accursed aquifer. Perhaps I should make an entirely new workshop area, as well.

3rd Slate

It is as I hoped and feared.
Sixteen migrants in one fell swoop. Sixteen new mouths to feed. Sixteen useless goddamn...



Well, helLO there, handsome.

Spring ended uneventfully, with the arrival and subsequent seizure of an elven caravan. We can pick through the spoils later; for now, my leg is killing me.

OOC:  Bedrooms are almost done, and in a manner that should allow for easy expansion. I kept the dormitories to deal with overflow... many more migrants will arrive, and we will have to build bedrooms for them as well, so they can use the dormitory while they wait. I also made a furniture stockpile, which means now our workshops should stop getting so cluttered.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 04:08:29 pm »

7th Hematite

Work on the bedroom complex proceeds apace.



I decided midway through the beautification process that it needed further expansion. I considered giving them doors, and then I realized that the bastards don't care about doors in the slightest.

Our current dining space, though, is what needs work. I don't know whether I should expand our existing dining room or build an entirely new one from scratch.

Either way...



we're gonna need some tables. And chairs.



However, there are other pressing matters as well. For one thing, absolutely none of our mined hematite or malachite ore is currently accessible. I'll have to carve a tunnel to it so the haulers can bring it closer to our magma-works.

...God, there's a lot to do. I might be starting to understand why the previous overseer turned to indiscriminate murder to relieve stress.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.

Ifeno

  • Bay Watcher
  • UristMcSoldier is an enemy of the Twinkling Incest
    • View Profile
Re: Screw the Next Player Over! A Succession Game v2
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 04:09:03 pm »

After three days' contemplation (okay, one days' contemplation and two days' sleeping), I've decided that it would be unfeasible to expand the current existing dining room. Thus, we must dig out a new one, one worthy of this fortress. One capable of inspiring awe. One hard to escape fr... um, forget that.



That should do nicely. Now then, since my miners aren't overworked enough yet, let's see if they can handle the bedroom expansion *and* the dining room by winter. I'll have a special job for them come winter.
Logged
ive gotten in the habit of replacing my chief medical dwarf as soon as he gains any notable skill in diagnosis.
It's really funny watching them do unnecessary surgery because of a wrong diagnosis.
the conditions were bad enough to turn a dwarf who didn't care about anything mad, that's pretty hardcore.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 20