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Author Topic: I want a challenge.  (Read 8508 times)

Jake

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 05:24:42 pm »

Don't use magma for anything. It's simultaneously harder and easier than you'd imagine, and has the virtue of forcing you to make good use of industries you might otherwise neglect.
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Never used Dwarf Therapist, mods or tilesets in all the years I've been playing.
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Callista

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 09:30:21 pm »

Aw, but I like magma.  :'(

Seriously, though, I've probably been using cage traps way too heavily. They are just so nice for capturing safe practice targets for the military.
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Mickey Blue

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 03:22:17 am »

Here are the rules I use on a regular basis (unless I'm trying to do something specific) in no particular order:

1) No walling yourself off, must have at least a 3 tile wide entrance to your base.

2) No using drawbridges (just normal bridges, no pulling them up), the only things that can be used as doors are actual doors and floodgates.

3) No magma for anything, including smelting.  If you want to use a forge/oven you'll need to start chopping wood and making charcoal.. Or trading..

4) No danger rooms

5) No robbing the caravan

6) No traps (save perhaps cage traps for hunting purposes, not for defense), your only defense can be soldiers

7) No using steel (or only allow steel weapons or armor, but not both)

8) No using caverns (removes easy-ish sources of fresh water and materials)

9) Set starting metal to low.



Other than that some other ideas are mods which can add a lot of challenge, for example I always play with Fortress Defense II mod which adds a whole mess of enemies to attack your fort.

Another good idea is to pick some specific goal to accomplish that requires you learn something new.  Like breach an aquifer, or set up an artificial waterfall, or keep a functional fort without using farms for food (only booze), or breeding animals, or whatever else.  Not only can the goal be challenging in a new way but you'll come away knowing how to do something new.

Of course picking a difficult area is a good general challenge, a freezing or desert biome is a good start (though caverns have made both a lot easier than they were, for additional challenge don't allow yourself to use caverns).


Honestly, once you get over the learning curve, DF is an easy game.  Unless you deliberately handicap yourself you can acquire near infinite food and supplies with minimal effort, you can arm your dwarves well with metal armor and weapons, and you can just about completely defend your fort from nearly anything with a good mix of traps, walls, and some soldiers for the few creatures that get through.  Add to that the exploits that exist such as robbing caravans blind with little if any drawback and of course danger rooms and you can be just about invincible (short of succumbing to the dreaded FPS curse).

Think of the above as playing the game on 'easy', you give yourself all the advantages and take no drawbacks.  No shame in it, and depending on what you are doing it may make it more fun, but if you find yourself feeling unchallenged simply start to give yourself some limitations to what you can do or what you can start with, pick more difficult starting locations, or set up some ground rules on what you are allowed to do in-game.  You can turn 'easy' into 'impossible' pretty quickly..

As mentioned I play with all those above rules on plus the Fort Defense Mod. Its extremely difficult, I cannot wall myself off and cannot use traps, when the various sieges show up all I can do is respond with my soldiers.  That said, for me, that is far more fun.  I love trying to train up soldiers, trying to hammer out some weapons, and trying different strategies for defense. 
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schismatise

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 09:21:13 am »

Why has no one mentioned Fortress Defence? That will wreck your shit first playthrough.

This. Turn off the civilizations that feel impossible/unrealistic to you, then embark somewhere with plenty of the rest around, bonus points if there's a war going on. Double bonus points if your embark has no iron or tin (you may need lots of marksdwarves). Also, don't use traps (cage traps especially are overpowered) - rely only on military and careful architectural planning. Avoid abusing bridges if you can help it. This should give you a pretty solid challenge without changing too much flavour of the game :)

Also, what Mickey Blue said.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 12:40:17 pm by schismatise »
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RAKninja

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 01:33:37 pm »

make a goblin tower.  as with going magma-less, it is both harder an easier than yo'd expect.

make the tower at least 40X40 with internal walls making rooms and chambers, and only use blocks for the construction.

bonus points if you embark at war with another civ, but is prolly not necessary, as you'll have seiges on top of seiges because you are babysnatching gobbos.
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Callista

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 02:58:58 pm »

I can easily go without magma--it took me a while to actually discover magma to begin with.

Where do I get the fortress defense mod?
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Mickey Blue

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 03:27:05 pm »

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62874.0

Usually the difficulty in giving up magma is having to use non-magma to make armor/weapons.  In the old days you practically had to when magma was much rarer (unless you specifically chose an embark based on it), now that it exists in every embark its a lot easier to find and thus harder to stop using.

A note; I am glad they changed it, I like having a magma option anywhere, just saying before you either had to get used to not using magma or severely restrict where you'd embark on, now you don't have to worry about that.
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Ferozstein

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 04:37:36 pm »

Magma has one vitally important use, though, which is waste disposal. Personally, I can pretty much ignore the magma workshops, but having a garbage chute which drops all the excess stone or goblinite all the way down to the semi-molten rock greatly helps with forestalling the most boring death a fort can succumb to: the FPS one.
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Callista

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2012, 05:32:27 pm »

Naw, I just atom-smash stuff. Dump zones around a hole in the ground, hole leads to the middle of an atom-smasher enclosed by walls to prevent dwarven stupidity; lever gets pulled periodically. No problems.
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Mickey Blue

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 05:36:17 pm »

Using magma or atom smashing for waste disposal is (IMO) ok, even though the latter is an exploit.  Buildup of waste is not so much a 'game' issue as a performance issue.  If waste had no impact on FPS then it wouldn't really matter, but it does and as such I have no problem with the idea of using magma (or atom smashing) to help with this problem.

When I talk about reduction of magma or exploits I mean ones that give you an in-game advantage, removing garbage does not (though perhaps in the future removing body parts may, depending on how necromancy ends up working out).
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terkiey

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2012, 05:52:23 pm »

Mine all candy.
Increased fun.
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Crazy Cow

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2012, 06:28:09 pm »

Step one - mod in a few wooden weapons. I use hammers and spears, myself.
Step two - you cannot create any metal armor or weapons, besides strange moods. All metal weapons and armor you use will be looted from the enemy. Wooden weapons and leather armor, ahoy!

Farmerbob

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 06:43:59 pm »

Erm...

Really?

:D

How do you currently play?
Well--I'm used to roguelikes, and that means that every single action counts or it's game-over. I tend to micromanage obsessively, watch everything very closely. My current play-style is very, very cautious and conservative.

Create a fully automated fortess defense system that requires no actions from your dwarves to maintain.  No dwarven military at all.  Keep the fortress open to the world.  Creatures must be killed, not simply trapped.

This means you have to protect against several classes of special critters - trapavoid, flying, building destroyers, bridge-immune.  Sometimes all four at once. 

Figuring out a way to create said defensive structures will certainly challenge you.
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Nan

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2012, 09:04:45 pm »

Just fortress defense mod alone is pretty good as a challenge. Even using a trap-heavy approach is quite challenging, because of the trapavoid enemies, and the fact that sieges/ambushes can come early enough to make digging out and completely architectural traps a challenge. Of course you can still wall yourself in, but that's more like losing in a slow and pathetic manner than winning.
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Farmerbob

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Re: I want a challenge.
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 09:14:07 pm »

Just fortress defense mod alone is pretty good as a challenge. Even using a trap-heavy approach is quite challenging, because of the trapavoid enemies, and the fact that sieges/ambushes can come early enough to make digging out and completely architectural traps a challenge. Of course you can still wall yourself in, but that's more like losing in a slow and pathetic manner than winning.

Depends on what you do after you wall yourself in.  If you build an orbital obsidian cannon to coat the entire surface of your territory with obsidian, I think that would be considered winning  :)
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