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Author Topic: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA  (Read 23805 times)

Montague

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #225 on: February 20, 2012, 06:12:29 pm »

*scratches head vaguely* So, uh. Size of government doesn't actually matter in the case at hand, getting it to enforce regulations is the issue? That'd be a problem regardless as to th'size of government, especially with the amount of weight the big companies can throw around nowadays.

... which is to say that stuff like ACTA's not really a symptom of the "disease of big government", it's a symptom of corruption that's going to have to be dealt with regardless of the size of government. Separate, though related, issues yanno'.

I think the idea is that a 'small' government would have a lesser degree of power to even implement regulations as far-reaching as this latest round of anti-internet bills in the first place. Thus less potential for abuse or corruption. Say, if the federal government was restrained from interfering with state governments in their decision to enforce a federal bill or not. Or bills would need to have a referendum.

Not so much like, the government has fewer bureaucrats on it's payroll or whatever.
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Frumple

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #226 on: February 20, 2012, 06:26:45 pm »

Yeah, s'what I meant. Less powerful government system... could (likely would, considering how much oomph th'corps have already) mean the big businesses would just kinda' do their thing and no one could really do anything about it.

It'd depend on just how small you're talking about, obviously, but the thought that less regulatory force would ipso facto mean less abuse is... well, it's a little silly. It'd probably mean less governmental abuse, sure, but that's only part of the problem as is, yeah. Though it would most likely reduce governmental corruption, sure -- the money thumpers just wouldn't need 'em anymore.

There's a balance somewhere, hopefully. The ideal as I understand it is to fix the specific problems (oversized/undersized organizations, excessive or insufficient regulatory power, etc., etc.) and let the overall power(/size) adjust itself consequently.

Has this thing become a "Government sucks and here is why" thing.
Maybe a little :P
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Max White

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #227 on: February 20, 2012, 06:30:19 pm »

I was always under the impression that government sucks because of the polarisation between parties, so much so that it gets to a state where they fight for the sake of fighting, and nobody cares about policy. Politics fails when things become politically motivated, rather than because it is best for everybody. Then you can pretty much pass things like ACTA because leaders fear being associated with pirates that much that they can't fight it.

Max White

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #228 on: February 20, 2012, 06:34:13 pm »

Party 2? We have one of those, they attack everything put before them, even things they supported themselves, then party 1 got on board, then they decided to reject it. It is hilarious!

Aqizzar

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #229 on: February 20, 2012, 06:37:16 pm »

I was always under the impression that government sucks because of the polarisation between parties, so much so that it gets to a state where they fight for the sake of fighting, and nobody cares about policy. Politics fails when things become politically motivated, rather than because it is best for everybody. Then you can pretty much pass things like ACTA because leaders fear being associated with pirates that much that they can't fight it.

The failure of SOPA is actually a good example of the exact opposite what you're describing.  The votes for and against were almost evenly bipartisan in both directions.  On issues that don't make headlines, and SOPA didn't until the week of its vote, you actually see plenty of non-polarization, where it comes down to who's paid by what rather than which party they belong to.

I've never understood how issues like this can be seen as "big government" anyway.  The entire structure of SOPA's regulation is founded on letting outside powers tell the government what to do - it's the abrogation of governmental decision making.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #230 on: February 20, 2012, 06:45:09 pm »

I've never understood how issues like this can be seen as "big government" anyway.  The entire structure of SOPA's regulation is founded on letting outside powers tell the government what to do - it's the abrogation of governmental decision making.
On the bright side, it proves that politicians really are willing to stifle themselves and each others' power if it means becoming personally wealthy. That's a good thing for electoral reform and the like.
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Phantom of The Library

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #231 on: February 20, 2012, 07:18:24 pm »

Has this thing become a "Government sucks and here is why" thing.
The Law of Internet Discussion states that any topic that has anything to do with the government will eventually turn into Government Sucks and Here is Why.
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Knight of Fools

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #232 on: February 20, 2012, 08:00:44 pm »

There's a balance somewhere, hopefully. The ideal as I understand it is to fix the specific problems (oversized/undersized organizations, excessive or insufficient regulatory power, etc., etc.) and let the overall power(/size) adjust itself consequently.

I think Frumple put it quite eloquently. Government regulation is needed to an extent. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need it, but we don't live in an ideal world.

The biggest problem with a government is that it naturally wants to expand and control more aspects of its nation. In doing so, it begins trying to control needless and, eventually, potentially harmful aspects of its citizens' lives. It is also easily influenced by sources of 'donations' and 'information' - Money is needed for officials to get reelected, and information is used to decide on legislature. The unfortunate thing is that the information provided could be false, and be backed by sizable 'donations' towards an incumbent's next election.

The government is also uncomfortable sitting around doing nothing, so it feels the need to constantly throw out new legislation. The legislation is often stuffed full of earmarks to garner votes as incumbents attempt to bring more of the cash to the folks they're representing (And thus earning more votes).


All of this is harmless to a degree, but it gets to the point where serious decisions need to be made as to what laws, institutions, and influences are good for our country. Unfortunately, more politicians only see the next election, and no one is willing to give up their slice of the pie.

As far as ACTA and SOPA go, politicians see the 'educated internet community' as a minority, and folks who like Hollywood as a majority. They're working towards earning more votes by throwing out non-issues that are made to seem large and important by the companies that are supporting them. The businesses put the message out ("OMGoodness, Pirates!") and the government reacts ("Smash pirates with nuke!"), and both groups "win", and stand proudly over the smoldering remains of what was once the Internet.

So, it's related enough to warrant a bit of discussion, but not too much.


But it really doesn't matter, because, as President of the Moon, I declare myself a dictator and use my powers to outlaw my own death, allowing me to wisely judge the Moon with infinite wisdom and justice for eternity.
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Phantom of The Library

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #233 on: February 20, 2012, 08:08:22 pm »

Unfortunately you are wrong, I am the Fuehr-King-Emperor of the Moon, and you must obey my every demand, I now demand that you die so that I have no contestant to my throne.
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Knight of Fools

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #234 on: February 20, 2012, 08:15:13 pm »

Good people, if you vote for me, I will make every day a new version of Dwarf Fortress is released a national holiday!

Mostly because productivity will plummet anyways, so you might as well take the day off.

Oh, and I'll be referred to as President, which is a much more democratic sounding title for a dictator.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #235 on: February 20, 2012, 08:22:30 pm »

You shall be the King of Fools.
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Descan

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #236 on: February 20, 2012, 08:22:59 pm »

First Consul Descan says...

FREE PONY FOR EVERYONE.

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Phantom of The Library

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #237 on: February 20, 2012, 08:50:55 pm »

You sad, pathetic creatures, you imagine that your pitiful elections actually mean something, your promises of free zombie power and holidays actually mean something, when in all reality I am the one true ruler of the moon, none can challenge my might.
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Montague

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #238 on: February 20, 2012, 09:09:46 pm »

What kind of Moondictator asks for votes anyways?

They are supposed to just violently seize control of the moongovernment in a bloody moon-coup.

Then you can have people vote however you want them to.
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Descan

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Re: We're too late, Obama signed ACTA
« Reply #239 on: February 20, 2012, 09:12:43 pm »

Moon-vote*.
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