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[Imp]

Tric appears to town? Gail BKWM and Five.  Free with info, about having magical broomstick/can fly and that W is very protective, traded a Gift, but has low sus, no scumhunting

Correction.  It was confusing to me who he was towning besides clearly Gail, and accidentally removed her name instead of BKWM's in my notes.

Tric, clear reads if you got 'em yet would be awesome.

[FiveBalesOfHay]

Five towns Tric, Sal, EP, some sus of BKWM, Imp, Fal.  Finds Gail and Quarque odd.  Really wants to live, very concerned about being killed.

The reason I'm obsessed with kill-blocking spells is that every townie getting a spell like that up and just preventing evil from killing anyone is a potential path to a mechanical solution. Also, I don't suspect Fallacy.

I mean, if you want to say 'I know I can't read them' to = scum, you can do that, I'm not.

If you can put one more unsorted person into town, then you've found your scumteam by process of elimination.

You're pretty new to me, and weirdly my mind keeps semi-blurring you and BKWM, unsure why.  But I haven't seen you anti-town yet either I don't think.

It's because we don't have pfps.

[Imp]

Five towns Tric, Sal, EP, some sus of BKWM, Imp, Fal.  Finds Gail and Quarque odd.  Really wants to live, very concerned about being killed.

The reason I'm obsessed with kill-blocking spells is that every townie getting a spell like that up and just preventing evil from killing anyone is a potential path to a mechanical solution. Also, I don't suspect Fallacy.

I mean, if you want to say 'I know I can't read them' to = scum, you can do that, I'm not.

If you can put one more unsorted person into town, then you've found your scumteam by process of elimination.

You're pretty new to me, and weirdly my mind keeps semi-blurring you and BKWM, unsure why.  But I haven't seen you anti-town yet either I don't think.

It's because we don't have pfps.

I'm really not a visual thinker, don't think that's probably why, though unsure why.

You very early seemed semi-sus of Fal,

Fallacy seems to be trying to solve, but I'm a little put off by this post

Quarque: What types of investigation do you think are most valuable, this game?

that seems like it could be fishing for roles. I won't vote them this turn, though, because I want to see them throw Impbot out of a window.

Thanks for the correction!

And I don't think I'm likely to be perfectly accurate.

Let's talk Tric.

Why do you think he's town?

[FiveBalesOfHay]

I don't have a super strong read on Tric thus far since he hasn't really done that much, but I think it's towny that he announced that W can prevent kills.

[FallacyofUrist]

See, my paranoia says "but what if Tric said that so scum can use their secret Booby-Trap-A-Node button to turn W into a bomb and kill everyone that reaches it"

And along with the fact that spell-tampering is possible, and counters to defenses as well...

It makes a theoretically townie move into a neutral one.

But that also does seem like something Tric would do as town.

[Imp]

I don't have a super strong read on Tric thus far since he hasn't really done that much, but I think it's towny that he announced that W can prevent kills.

Neat.

Here's mafia Tric in the game I played with him where he was maf, I was town.

Loookie all the mech focus, the relatively low sus, and low paranoia.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So I've ended up infected before the game even started. I was going to ask the next poster if they wanted to get buff, but I can't act on anyone without also infecting them. And will end up dying at the end of the night. The hell?

Also Sasuges have been involved. Imp's going to get a random non-auto from me cause I literally just conceded that game. Probably means I get to chat with Imp until someone else enters, which can apparently happen. Would have been more willing to play the game if I wasn't infected and unable to act...

NQT says it's closed now. Permanently. So can't use it as a private chat. Enjoy the abilities I had planned to make use of to make people buff. And maybe work them to death, that too.

Ninja. Basically I die at the end of the night. If I target anyone, the infection is passed along. My night action can potentially infect the entire game. And my day action means whoever I target will pass it along tomorrow night. No thank you, would rather die than that. So I rolled the dice to give my ability to you. You've got a 2/3 chance of doing what I couldn't.

Ghosts seem strange, especially because there's more than one to start.

Imp, do you have a team-chat again this game?

Fallacy, I feel legally obligated to apologize to you for the events of CYOM.
The same with Max, honestly, but less personally.

Tric, does your role want to kill town?

CM, how worried are you about having your actions cancelled?

I haven't spent much time with everyone else, but to anyone interested: Are you happy with the spheres you selected?

This would be a no. Have to be careful I don't kill town by accident, but that's not likely going to happen given you need to get Exhausted twice. Assuming my infected status sticks and I become a ghost? Won't be able to do much until that status is cleared.

Does mean I'm a valid vote if none can come to an agreement. But that doesn't really do much other than check if ghost status can be gained from being lynched.

Trains Train. Bit early for that in that it's night for me right now. We need more information.

There is a reason I was just going to fire it at the first person who wanted it. Mostly cause I could then kill them if they signaled the wrong thing. Not like that would work out well with the ghosts potentially in play. Rather than pick a leader, decide on who's town.

So, who wants to get buff? Side effects unknown, 1 shot only since it's from the game.

I'm guessing this card is yours Fallacy? It doesn't do anything.

Probably a good idea to see if trade or gift will infect. No reason it wouldn't in rl.

... I did not read that status entirely. Ghosts can't be infected. Jury's still out on if I'd carry the infection into death though.

The best move might be to just see which ghost is trustworthy, get lynched and hope to turn into a ghost, and then I can use my action normally. Assuming ghosts can't die of overwork anyway.

Ninja Imp. Again. As I did not target you, no infection occurred. NQT said they'd be going to bed, so any answers to my questions will have to wait for tomorrow.

Someone get Tric a page, please, sometime, somehow, particularly if he becomes a ghost (and even if he doesn't).  I'll work towards that happening (what, you think I want the darn things?  Sure, but they have better uses and timing) if nobody else gets him a page, no idea if they have better uses.  They easily could.

@Imp & Tric: I have a page

No clue what a page would do. Have confirmed trading does not spread the infection. Also I wouldn't be infected anymore if I turn into a ghost.

Thinking on it Jack's votes might be related to cards. But there isn't much difference between 1.5 votes and 2 votes.

... An extra vote isn't a huge issue to deal with, so long as we catch mafia before it becomes a problem. Assuming Jack isn't mafia but they didn't have...

Moving on, I think Fal might have been the one to put us in the sasuga chat. A random ability and item betting, playing cards abound, and now trading for a random item? Sounds like gacha mechanics. No one else has claimed to at this point, and it feels the most right.

Actions I can do right now are buff up a ghost, with full understanding that I can't tell if they're mafia. Die to lynch or at end of night. Or take a gamble on a page. Not mutually exclusive, so.. Egan, Hector. Put forth your arguments on what I should do. Preferably in the next 12 hours.

What connection do you see there?

Unless Tric is lying someone had to pass it on, and unless the origin is themselves immune (which feels off to me for various reasons -- consider how explosively it would multiply) they'd have to die themselves after. You knew you were going to die N0 and yet had special permission to act anyway. Dying N0 feels like an Oops! All Red Spheres thing and I could see you submitting that kind of path.

... Sigh. Yeah, from what the status reads that's probably true. So they died of the infection Night 0, meaning a role that doesn't have to play the game to win. From that... NQT, do dead ghosts count for Town's win condition?


On another note, I'd ask Jack to reveal the name of the item for Imp to doublecheck before we trade. The cards don't seem to do anything, but the poker aesthetic suggests there is something up with them.

Suppose MS target is confirmed then? Which leaves Hector as the culprit here. Could you remind me of what that action was? Can check later but about to eat lunch.

So Max. Looking back you got a new ability. Feel like Egan should get a buff? Since the ghosts aren't making the argument for it yet.

Kk. So.

Trade Seven of Clubs(TricMagic) for Lost Page(EuchreJack)
Hope this works. Also on my way to make a ghost buff.

... Targeted living player. Freaking text clause. So nope, still can't target anyone.

Hector, that doesn't actually help. I literally already told you. I can't target anyone without infecting them. Ghosts can't catch the infection. If I end up a ghost, no longer infected. I die at the end of the night. That's it.

For the record I can't gift things either. NQT just got back to me on that. Trade works fine.

Right now I would put Imp as town. Mechanically Egan/Max are tied together. So either we've got a potential team, or you're scum Hector. That also paints Egan as sorta safeish? Someone infected me N0, and given it kills at the end of the night one of you two had it.

I don't have any real reads of others at the moment, other than speculation on Jack and Fal. If Jack suddenly has 2 votes tomorrow that means they're receiving a benefit from controlling the cards. Fal I think is the one who put me and imp in that game meanwhile. If a third person entered and said sasuga they would win and steal the entire pot after all. Which would either be items or random abilities.

On a scroll down, what would I press EJ about? If you want to vote me, vote me. If you want to kill me, I'd rather you do it now instead of this delayed death.

You know... If I was an SK this infection would be a very good method to just instantly win the game. Use my night ability to infect everyone in the game and watch them die, and there isn't a single thing that can stop it. Sure I'd overwork myself to death but that's no price to pay if I'd die anyway right?

If I get lynched that means I can actually act night 1. Or I just end up dead for good and don't have to play with a role that's entire purpose is to buff people up.

What makes you so sure infection is an SK ability? I mean I'm pretty sure it is SK since you don't have to be alive to win. If ghosts weren't a thing it would probably have been designed differently? As is infection just petering out cause people practice social distancing is funny.

Reminder some people submitted roles so they wouldn't have to play the game. So it's not impossible for it to be one and done.

... I'm not really sure either, other than thinking I either A: had poor impulse control, or B: would hold it to my chest and use it. That doesn't really explain why Hector is a ghost. Was there a N0 kill?

hugs keyboard Now I can only complain about feeling tired.

I am tired and trying not to wall post my confused thoughts.

Tric.

I'm confused.  Did you know what ability I'd get?  Or were you hoping?  You appear to have called the one I did get, what's going on there?  I also really want your answer, yours you fine dragon, on why you want yourself the D1 elim over the chance for us to elim someone who could be antitown.

Yes, it 'lets you target a living without infecting them' per your claim.  But it eliminates a chance for us to remove an anti-town who hasn't claimed they die N1.  It eliminates any chance anyone can save you/cure you/otherwise change what's going on.

I think you should not want that, I think you should want movement towards your wincon, and I think you're moving towards your wincon as-is.  Am I confused and tired, or just tired?  Love to hear what you're thinking about your death plans.

Pretty much what I was asking. Still voting Fal given the who random thing, and lack of people claiming card shenaigans. Wouldn't be surprised if Fal's a Casino where the house always wins. As for abilities, there are only two you could have gotten given the amount of autos I got. My night ability applies the one you got in a cascade effect. So if you got the latter you'd still know about the former. If you got the 1/3 chance of my other ability. Well you probably have an understanding of my role's result and why I want to use it. Ask NQT about it.

... I did not read that status entirely. Ghosts can't be infected. Jury's still out on if I'd carry the infection into death though.

The best move might be to just see which ghost is trustworthy, get lynched and hope to turn into a ghost, and then I can use my action normally. Assuming ghosts can't die of overwork anyway.

Ninja Imp. Again. As I did not target you, no infection occurred. NQT said they'd be going to bed, so any answers to my questions will have to wait for tomorrow.

You should still have the sasuga channel access, only your version is one-shot. I'd be less miffed otherwise.
And no, can't target the dead, only the living.

Tric, seriously.

if the thing's a one-shot.  And you're not sure about using it on either existing ghost.  Maybe hold it.  maybe there's some other ghost soon you're confidently buffing.  Or if you think buffing the wrong ghost is bad or really bad.  Can wait for more/better ghosts in case they happen.

You should still have the sasuga channel access, only your version is one-shot. I'd be less miffed otherwise.
And no, can't target the dead, only the living.

Late night confusion. Fal not much to say. Day 1 with mechanics to discuss, but one should also look at how people are choosing to argue things. Max isn't really trying at the moment. No jokes that indicate scummyness either, so you being able to trade random stuff where if the other side doesn't choose to trade anything is just odd. Cause that has a lot in common with the sasuga chat. What do you think of me closing it so quickly?

For reference the chat started on D1.

Crystalizedmire please get out here and participate? The only ones who can lurk are ghosts, and only Egan is sorta doing that. Feel like they're chilling, but haven't got anything from you in days.

Old Jack vs New Jack. Too different to actually call it a meta-read.

... Fallacy, still got a feeling you aren't conductive... Not sure how to put it, but the rando item trade on top of the chat I was in makes me feel that you're looking to get a power boost for your own purposes. Given that a third person could come into chat and steal both our wagers, especially if we hadn't made any so you get abilities instead? I feel like you want to steal something from Imp too as the 'winner' of the game. Suppose the main question is why, how, and who.

... Given you graciously posted a readlist, wouldn't be too surprised if it's among the ones you listed as scum together. Or could be among the list of three you made since easy enough to just focus on the other two. Assuming it's a 2 person scumteam with the infection around, and not 3 with the infector being among the scumteam?


As a question how would you read CM when they haven't really posted anything Fal? Granted, 12 posts from you today but it's a slow game. Who are your pick for today?

... Get the feeling Fal is not going to respond.

As a question Jack, why vote Max exactly?

Imp, here is a simple question. Who do you trust with the power you gained? Who among them will become Buff?

Now, that's not that different from normal Tric, to my eyes, MANY of us that game didn't strongly sus him, plus it was a weird game and he entered it with the claim he was soon to die (but the dead were very active that game, until the reason they were ghosts was removed).

But there are some differences.  I wouldn't easy-town him from what I see here so far, and he's my least certain townlean, though Owl's barely more from unfamiliarity and few posts - decent posts though, and a good feel (that I could be wrong on, but notice).

See, my paranoia says "but what if Tric said that so scum can use their secret Booby-Trap-A-Node button to turn W into a bomb and kill everyone that reaches it"

And along with the fact that spell-tampering is possible, and counters to defenses as well...

It makes a theoretically townie move into a neutral one.

But that also does seem like something Tric would do as town.

That's also Tric's style as mafia, note he wanted to know who I'd pass buff onto at the end there D1.  Thing is, I didn't get that power when I got one of his, various other chaos things.

But yes, this isn't extremely clearly and certainly Town Tric.

[Salvatore Monday]

This is fun.

Sal put BKWM and me together in Russian Mafia and saw BKWM there, in scum chat and in thread; was there when BKWM was 3P Sk variant (I was also anti-town there, a 3P) and so smooth.

Was there and initially town in Fal's Reasonable Cults, where BKWM was town and D1 elim.

Can you tell us more about what you see about BKWM, Sal?

It's not the panic at all for me, but I'm not sure I can explain it. If anything the panic feels fake. It's... the opportunism, I guess?

[Gail_42]

I finally chose what spell I wanted to transcribe, at least.

I know being quiet and... not-me... seems off to some.  I'd like to point out that I've gotten a great deal of backlash for my number and volume of posts.  If someone wanted to ask about why, then I'd rather them have asked when I said something pre-game.  It's why I said it pre-game.  Please set it aside for after.  I said I'd keep my rambling reads and my mech spec out, so I am.  Probably a good thing, considering the game size and mech depth.

I wish the bot had stayed.  I would've been so smug if it was scum.  It's harder to read Imp (last game being an obvious example).  Oh, btw—Imp, I genuinely hold no grudge.  Apology accepted, if it helps, but please know I didn't feel I needed one.

The scummiest thing about Tric to me is supposedly having a read on me.  'Cause.  It's day1, how do you know??  I've barely spoken.  I mean, I know I'm not evil, but how do you?

I'm struggling to figure out my reads without having sunk my teeth in like normal, especially with so many people.  From the hip, my best town guesses are Qua, Sal, Five, Fal, maybe Ele.  Null/unsure is likely Imp, BKWM, Verm.  Not great vibes is lingering on Tric (only cuz how), Jim, Irony.  The scum leans are soft ones based on feelings because my brain cell didn't realize how much I depended on doing my solving out loud, in thread.

[IronyOwl]

Perhaps not if he claimed on D3 when we had a good pool of people who we think are the remaining Cabal. But the bar for D1 is low. Not lynching town is a win in and of itself on D1. and also, I quoted the OP on this earlier, but if we DO kill a neutral player because maybe they're neutral maybe they aren't, scum hasn't gotten closer to winning, because they don't need that neutral player dead. If we exclude that neutral player from our consideration, that player could still be a threat, but instead of them we missed anyway and got a townie. And that DID help scum. They are now closer to winning. I don't think that the odds of Verm specifically lying about not being in the Cabal is any more or less likely than any of the other players. But I AM pretty darn sure that he ISN'T town. So, yeah, I can vote for Verm and be pretty sure I'm not helping scum by voting for another townie on D1 when town really has very little to go on anyway, and I still have a 3/11 shot of hitting scum because we know for a fact that every cabal player is out here lying through their teeth, and why not that lie?

You're being a self-serving coward desperately trying to shove anyone but yourself to the gallows. If the goal were to not kill town, we could no-lynch and "scum hasn't gotten closer to winning." What actually happens is we fail to gain information while scum happily whittles us down in the order of their choosing. Killing neutrals isn't terribly far off from that, especially if there's no interesting links between the neutral in question and anyone else.

Neutrals can be dangerous for several reasons, but being free kills isn't one of them.

If we can add spells to the web, it's likely spells can at least potentially be removed too, and who knows how changing the number of spells in the web may change their connections.

It's also possible to start with two Esoteric school spells.

If so, one potentially could know a fair amount about the game, depending on the type of meta magic in them and whatever else gets said by others that allow one to piece together almost-connected info.

Though community knowledge - and choosing to reveal it!  Is possible.  I think more likely Cabal plays dumber by choice though, but unsure.

I can confirm that it is possible for spells to be removed from the web. I can also confirm that esoteric spells are not the only ones that contain implications beyond their scope.

Cabal has three spell sets to choose from, so I would presume their knowledge to be greater than any one town player, on average. I am unsure where this leaves town priorities regarding sharing information.

There is 'anti-town intention' in what Verm presents.  He's probably honest about third party though.  But I think he expects to harm town, and not just a light bruise or something.

You won't like this answer, but it's because I feel doing that would be much less fun. Verm chose to put a bit of faith into the game by openly claiming neutral, and for the sake of the game as a whole, I'm willing to postpone throwing him out a window so he at least has a chance of accomplishing his objective.

This is a fascinating dynamic.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: D1 is 48 hours for some reason so please get back in here ASAP

It's hard.

I'm locked away at work more than I usually am and there are things I should be doing over playing mafia.

[Imp]

I wish the bot had stayed.  I would've been so smug if it was scum.  It's harder to read Imp (last game being an obvious example).

Yeah, but it's not scum.  I'm town this game.  The bot too, of course.  That wish to feel smug about - is not a reality.  I'm so sorry, I get that you want this.

If the bot had stayed, again.  It would have stayed town.  It may have been elim, maybe a solid elim.  But a town flip.  I know you want smug.  That doesn't exist.

[Gail_42]

I wish the bot had stayed.  I would've been so smug if it was scum.  It's harder to read Imp (last game being an obvious example).

Yeah, but it's not scum.  I'm town this game.  The bot too, of course.  That wish to feel smug about - is not a reality.  I'm so sorry, I get that you want this.

If the bot had stayed, again.  It would have stayed town.  It may have been elim, maybe a solid elim.  But a town flip.  I know you want smug.  That doesn't exist.

My gut tells me if you're being playful in this, you're scum, and if you're being serious, you're town.  Because town Imp has no use for my tone-deaf shenanigans.  I'm gonna find something to be smug about, anyway, just 'cuz.

I'll admit that Irony went up slightly and into my nulls, basically being replaced by BKWM.  I agree that going straight for someone you believe to be neutral feels like an easy person to get town to off D1 instead of, you know, actual scum while scum hunting.  Verm suggested something about his target being one of the baddies or whatever, so I'm not sure what to think of that.  It certainly is a good way to bait out the evil folk, though.

[Jim Groovester]

Some of you are protesting the LLM being in the game at all, why'd you wait until the game started to say so?

Sometimes people are not able to form opinions about things without experiencing them directly.

VermillionSkies:

I quoted this post because there was some thought I had on reading it, but I forget exactly what it was.

I think I like the suspicion on VS at this point, but why not just vote instead of the meaningless blue text?

I don’t know elephant. When you put it like that I see your point. I guess im trying too hard to survive D1 and not just playing like I should. I’ll put my vote where my mouth is Quarqee

I liked this correction from BKWM. I was inclined to read BKWM as likelier town than not based on this, before BKWM redirected towards VermillionSkies.

what researchers

Jim Groovester, possibly.

say what now

I currently do not think that I need TricMagic dead to win.

Of my other options, I worry that I may need BKWM dead to win.

I like these reads.

I may not be completely on board with a BKWM lynch though. I'll think about it a spell.

You won't like this answer, but it's because I feel doing that would be much less fun. Verm chose to put a bit of faith into the game by openly claiming neutral, and for the sake of the game as a whole, I'm willing to postpone throwing him out a window so he at least has a chance of accomplishing his objective.

FoU is town.

Perhaps not if he claimed on D3 when we had a good pool of people who we think are the remaining Cabal. But the bar for D1 is low. Not lynching town is a win in and of itself on D1. and also, I quoted the OP on this earlier, but if we DO kill a neutral player because maybe they're neutral maybe they aren't, scum hasn't gotten closer to winning, because they don't need that neutral player dead. If we exclude that neutral player from our consideration, that player could still be a threat, but instead of them we missed anyway and got a townie. And that DID help scum. They are now closer to winning. I don't think that the odds of Verm specifically lying about not being in the Cabal is any more or less likely than any of the other players. But I AM pretty darn sure that he ISN'T town. So, yeah, I can vote for Verm and be pretty sure I'm not helping scum by voting for another townie on D1 when town really has very little to go on anyway, and I still have a 3/11 shot of hitting scum because we know for a fact that every cabal player is out here lying through their teeth, and why not that lie?

Not exactly a fan of the 'lynch the claimed third party' strategy when the third parties in this game are not explicitly hostile to the town win condition.

You should ALWAYS assume every player is a threat until proven otherwise. That's... how this game works.

That's incredibly exahusting. Townhunting is just as valid and often more productive than scumhunting.



I think Quarque comes out looking decent after accusing TricMagic of being scum despite probably being wrong about TricMagic. Haven't seen a read about a player after the exchange with TricMagic though, which is of mild concern.

Leaning town on TricMagic if the information about Faithful Companion he shared is accurate, but not strongly otherwise. Haven't seen a read out of TricMagic, I don't think.

Elephant Parade is solving so inclined to throw into the town pile.

Gail_42 has been quiet. Null read on her.

Vermillion Skies is neutral at best. I believe VS about being a blood mage and am inclined to leave it where it is for D1.

IronyOwl is fine.

Imp is weakly fine.

FallacyofUrist is town.

Salvatore Monday gets my standard 'very dangerous, can't read' assessment, but I think the BKWM vote is fine.

FiveBalesOfHay has been fine and also is not voteable during D1.

Not especially fond of BKWM's inclination towards lynching claimed Neutral VermillionSkies vs someone more likely to be scum. The D1 thrashing and not knowing how not to get lynched D1 I can see.



I guess I want to see more of Quarque and TricMagic. Probably Gail_42 as well. I'd be more inclined to go after BKWM for D1 if I was more confident it wouldn't be a mislynch.

Somebody tell me how many hours from now the deadline is so I can determine whether I'll be around for the deadline or not.

[Imp]

TricMagic, I'm lonely and confused.  Where's your scumhunting?  Hope you're okay.

I could be wrong about BKWM, but if so I'm quite surprised.  BKWM is unbelievably awesome if this is scumplay, I think.  That said, there is opportunism....

Let's look close at that D1 play of that town game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hello everyone, and Good Morning!  There are lots of bad storms right now in my real life location, and I feel it sets the mood wonderfully.

I find myself wondering what you visit people for Imp darling, although I don't truly expect an answer to that on Day 1. I do not visit people, find it slightly sus that you do, that's all. I also find it not ideal for you to be coming out the gate with something like this. Has there ever been a vanilla mafia game on this forum? Not complaining, just asking.

You're dealing with one or more Cults.

...

The Cult is an anti-Town faction that uses a conversion methodology. Each Cult team will start with a single player, who will have a role that allows them to add other players to their Cult. The team will survive the death of their "Leader". A given Cult team will win when the number of living players on their team matches or exceeds the number of living players not on their team, and no role effect can cause this condition to become false.

Ya'll are bad at readin. So here. There is no guarantee of only one cult. There is a guarantee that each cult starts with only one member. There is actually quite a bit of detail about mechanics in OP. It does look like killing the cult leader will stop the cults growth, so cult leaders should be a priority, and those converted a lesser priority. And yes, the issue is going to be complicated because the opposing cult leaders will have every incentive to actively hunt for the opposing cult leader(s). So active, wholehearted scumhunting is not legitimate as a townread. For this reason

Cults are bad mechanically.

but of course whining about that does no one but the cult leaders any good.

This of course means that at least on D1, there probably aren't any actual teams yet. Every scum is currently a solo scum. If there is a team its going to be like a serial killer team, which is kind of just a mafia, and we were told we had cults instead, so yeah every scum is probably solo today.

Tric not on the official player list. Clearly Scum.

Oh and Gail, for the record, I also read that little rant of yours as overboard and sus.

BKWM — As a previous 'Evil' in disguise, you had a partner at the start and therefore weren't isolated... and you had me pretty pocketed and kept my view slightly soft on the bot, too.  You played exceptionally well and stuck to being super open about your role because you knew your role wasn't very restricted alignment-wise.  Right now, however, if you were town, that should give you a tiny comfortable buffer of confidence (that foolish feeling all us sheep manage to get as long as we blend in) (town entitlement some people may say), so it would counteract the lack of confidence from having a partner as a support system.  Instead, you're behaving as if you wish to stay out of sight first day.  Hoping to make it until night and gain someone to work with in your cult, perhaps?  Is isolated 'bad' not up your alley?  Or are you just very fearful when sheep?  Being fairly quiet looks odd on you (from my limited perspective anyway).

I was a solo scum in the previous game. Which I know Sal said, but I will reiterate. I apologize for my absence, there was real life drama, medical stuff for my elderly aunt. Given that the day still has time left, I just didn't check in. Sorry about that.

Oh, and if a Serial Killer can't be converted, then it's only a matter of time that the Serial Killer would be exposed.  Two cults and a serial killer?  Serial killer would stick out like a sore thumb.

Which honestly seems like a thing only an SK would bother thinking about at all.

That doesn't hold water at all. Given that the topic of the SK is being so thoroughly discussed, anyone with a tendency to overthink things (and gail, that is you darling) could easily come to this conclusion given that they are already thinking hard about the topic in general.

Imp's claim is I think a town indicator. I can't imagine just straight up lying about a whole mechanic right off the bat like that, which leaves "telling the truth" or "scum with voting based abilities" as the remaining possibilities. And I feel like if they were scum, giving players that kind of knowledge on how to manipulate their play would be a risky choice. So, probably the truth.

Our last game started with scum opening post claiming a thing and everyone being like they couldn't possibly be lying it's just too much and that was a really big help to them. Never assume that it's the truth because it's too audacious or too risky. "The great masses of the people are more likely to fall prey to a big lie than a small one" was said by someone who really did have experience in that arena.

Sal from how he plays previously is basically an advertisement for some of us; Sal I wish I could recruit to town just to be double sure of you.

Great news! I am town!

You play mafia exactly like i would expect after playing in your game. I have no idea what to make of anything you say.

Overall right now, I think that there is too much being made over an argument that is about who is the highest priority to hunt. My 2 cents: since there is no way on D1 to tell the difference between any of the various non-town roles the entire discussion is pointless. I think Gail was right, but that means little.
zemaj reads town to me. his logic is solid, his indignation is not alignment indicative because he is just like that all the time. I think ya'll are more likely picking up on him having lost that argument, when usually in a mafia game losing an argument with another player usually means voting for you is a great idea,  but the problem is the argument was pointless and no part of it was really alignment indicitave in any way.

Acting like you are trying to draw a convert seams like a legit strat for a cult leader. Get the other leader(s) to waste a convert on you and get town to think you're town in a go. While I understand we have very little to go on in D1, I believe that going forward (i.e when looking back on this tomorrow) we should not view such D1 actions as non-sus.

Who should I night kill?

Jokes like this are dangerous. If you do have a NK

Let us exercise the virtue of charity and free Jim from the hell he has foolishly imposed upon himself.

makes as much sense as anything else at this point. Because Chaos. And also because he does kind of appear to be either trying to draw a convert or trying to remain out of sight.

Even though I did say zemaj reads town just now, I am rereading and honestly if it was anyone else, just going in like that on an argument that is actually pointless would read as scummy as crap, and even if zemaj is just like that rewarding bad play because it's consistent gives scum something easy to hide behind so I guess carry on and lynch him if ya'll want. We don't have to lynch someone, but its the only defense we have so we gotta lynch somebody.

I wonder if anybody has noticed that cult leaders and any other anti-town who may exist have the highest incentive to try to draw converts.

Gah I'm tired. I read this and then reiterated it as if the idea had been mine all along. I gotta go to sleep ya'll. And yes, Imp, I am very different this game. Last game I was actively stirring the pot just to stir the pot. That thing that zemaj did where he accidentally talked himself into killing another townie, I was trying to do that but on purpose all game. This game I am much less confident because I am worried that helping lynch town with bad analysis could actually hurt my wincon.

Although this point here that I'm quoting from Sal is making me suspicious of Imp actually. Starting off the game with that claim is readable as trying to draw a convert. You are in essence telling cult leaders you have an ability that could help them. In Day 1, there is basically nothing to go on, unless you are a cult leader and know that you need to get out ahead of things. In general I believe claiming things on D1 doesn't help town much at all, as it gives the already more informed mafia more to go on, and thus is really only a strategically valid plan as a scum player.

Also Gail feels off. After how just mega townie wow she read last game, her feeling off strikes me as scary.

Gail has had a string of bad mechanical reads (the most recent of which occurred out one side of her mouth and while the other was talking about how she was being more careful about her mechanical reads) and has also advocated actively hunting people who appear to have shifted their alignment on D2 or later (which actually will prevent town from hunting either cult leaders or serial killers if that is actually successful as it will only ever find cult converts who on D2 and later should be a lower priority for town but a higher priority for opposing cults).

If it really is bad play, then stop it. But it looks like Cult Leader stir the pot and try to confuse everyone behavior, and I am not about it.

has also advocated actively hunting people who appear to have shifted their alignment on D2 or later (which actually will prevent town from hunting either cult leaders or serial killers if that is actually successful as it will only ever find cult converts who on D2 and later should be a lower priority for town but a higher priority for opposing cults).

I think the best version of this argument is that scumhunting usually involves looking at inconsistencies: someone having a complete 180 with their reads can be a major red flag— and that's going to include scum leaders who now no longer suspect the people they have just converted.

Oh I hadn't considered that.

I've gotta stop downing coffee and learn how to drink it.

sigged

I'm just kind of over it, atm. 

Yeah, SK argument is just silly on D1, but I NEVER said "we should hunt for SK."  We don't even know if there even is a SK! 

I was only pointing out that SK is ANTI-TOWN, and it is ridiculous I have to reinforce that point.  Everyone should know this.  The entire "SK could help, so ignore the possibility!" argument is just such utter idiocy when you do some simple math, that I feel compelled to make the point that if there is an SK, they would be ANTI-TOWN, and 3x more likely to hit Town than Cult, thus BAD!

That making such an obvious point, purely to belabor how ridiculous the other side of it is, has apparently got 1/3 of the players okay with the idea of eliming me straight-up has me wondering wtf is actually going on here.

I looked it over, thought through the posts the opposition was making, and came to a point that I think is actually legit, aside from the silly thing actually being discussed.  No one seems interested in that, though, just focusing on how "bad the whole SK discussion is".

So I'm just letting it sit.  Let someone else make something of a case, or just elim me.  If this has been any indication of how this one will go, I'm cool with not having to fight just for having the audacity to point out the obvious.

This here is why I don't suspect zemaj today on D1. I think this is legit.

All of ya'll think my gail read is terrible terrible terrible so once i finish drowning my coffee, I'll go back and defend my assessment, which hey might result in me changing it, I was really tired at 2 am last night when i made that read.

Opening post, bad mechanical read, immediately corrected, steps down.

NQT saying Imp might be SK first

Gail saying it also

Imp challanges Gail's read but not NQT's read (even though it's the same daggum read) because Gail is more sus about it

wtf is this?

Okay... kind of a random and harsh put down when I thought you wanted a read, but my bad I guess.  Noted.
 

No actually I don't think that was random or harsh. I think what Imp was responding too was random and harsh.

Here gail is whining because someone got upset about her shenanigans.

Oh and Gail, for the record, I also read that little rant of yours as overboard and sus.

Here is me being openly suspicious of gail way back then because of this behavior.

Here is Gail being challenged that she didn't defend her read of Imp to anyone's satisfaction and basically being like idc I said what I said

I hate town-slips because it makes me feel like a bad player (that's not a question or invite to jab, thank you).  To compensate, I've carefully reread all the intro/rules/setup.

this is the specific quote I was talking about Gail saying she was gonna try to be better at mechanics reads. Of note here is that Gail is VERY CLEARLY AWARE that her OWN meta as town is to make bad mechanical reads.

And here we have zemaj come in and respond to (among other things) a bad mechanics read that is shared by Gail and others. Specifically zemaj is very clear, logical, waterproof (nigh bulletproof) in his assessment as to why he thinks they are wrong. ( and again, I couldn't agree with his points here more (specifically his points in the second half of that post and his point in the first half of that post about his tendency towards hostility.))

With the way you're steering concern from finding the cultists to finding Schrodinger's Serial Killer,

Here gail is accusing zemaj of doing what zemaj just fussed at Gail for doing. For reference NQT's response was more along the lines of while maintaining that NQT had been right, also admitting that zemaj was right in that it didn't matter. Gail's response here is specifically looking at zemaj's post laying out in detail why there is no reason at all to hunt one kind of anti-town over another and turning around and accusing him of saying the exact opposite of what he actually said while throwing in an accusation of being non-town as icing.

Once converted to a cult, you can't jump to a different cult, so if converted, I guess you better like being stuck on that team.  Serial killers can't be converted at all and just get to murder people, so if we had one (I'm leaning towards no since it's not a bigger game as Fal hoped.  I wish Tric had seen when Fal asked if he wanted to join T.T), they're not nearly the same threat early game.  Early game, we might even be lucky and they'd stab a cult leader.

Gail's opinion on SK's Before zemaj's post

A gambled threat that may even kill a cultist... versus a cultist that definitely will switch people from town to cult.  Cultists are the bigger threat.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend frenemy.

Gail's opinion (carbon copy of zemaj's opinion) after zemaj's post (but with a zemaj is scum for changing my mind) kind of vibe and exactly ZERO admission that her mind was changed.

Sorry, I drank 4 cups of coffee because my new creamer is delicious and now I can hear colors.

This is Gail admitting that she is constantly suffering from inadequate caffeine levels.

In seriousness this is Gail saying she is just being friendly and not actively trying to pocket people which she had at this point been accused of multiple times. I don't actually see anything wrong here other than a bad mechanics read from a previous game. And while we are on the topic of that previous game. That game's mechanics were SIGNIFICANTLY more f'ed than this one's and yet Gail seemed to do fine with the mechanics there. If she hadn't, I wouldn't be pointing it out in this game. But it is a deviation from her previous play.

The Meta on bad reads from Town gail is that stuff slips through the cracks around the edges. Today looks more like she is trying to ladle out liquid mechanics with a slotted spoon.

I may be wrong in my read, I have been wrong before, But I have my reasons for the read that I have

Hunting cult-allies or serial-killers is a waste of time atm.  Fallacy has specified that only cult leaders can convert people, and though the cult can survive its leader's death, the cult can still win if there is less of other teams than their own team, like if other teams simply whittle theirselves down.  If anything, those would simply be a bonus or relief to accidentally execute... but not nearly the same threat.

Oh hell I AM blind. F. Unvote

Sorry Gail. well I got nothing then.

D1 was more fun when I was anti-town. Now I just feel lost. There not being scum teams means I don't even know what I'm supposed to be hunting for and everyone seems to be mad at our resident porcupine for just being a porcupine for seemingly lack of something better to do. I do think there is something better to do though.

Post Count:

Imp:   32
Sal:    11
Jim:     8
NQT:   15
5BoH:  7
zemaj: 14
Crys:   14
Gail:    21
BKWM: 15 (counting this post)

ya'll we got the wordly trio of jack, diddly, and squat for info right now. Five bales and Jim are lurking more than others, while Jim has made more of what I would see as contributions in his posts, while Five bales has been trying, if not really contributing in his posts, where a few of Jim's posts are just noise to make noise.

I vote Jim for lurking. I'll pick him over the new guy cause the new guy just looks lost.

Five, I really didn't even pause to notice how little you've said until you tried to pull those two down somewhat to be near your post count.  Jim admittedly has been pretty dodgy with his "Yeah, totally gonna post at some point" posts, but the little contribution he's given does buy him some time.  The contribution seems genuine but like a weak rough draft that he's promising will be done a bit better.  If he fails to do so, then he'll expose himself for somewhat stringing us along.  I find the 'stringing along' thing to be more indicative of people working together and waiting for a partner's response, so it isn't quite as alarming when I know that isn't what's holding Jim up.  If he's just staying out of the line of sight *or* he's genuinely majorly busy, then the first indicates being sneaky but the second is more like "well it's not like he was playing a lot and helping solve a bunch, so losing him as town wouldn't be as bad as, say, losing town Imp who is super active".  Jim is a pretty good dude and player, but the first thing he ever said about me was basically "is this person always so wordy?  I don't like it" and Sal was like "yeah, unfortunately".  *side-eye to Sal*

I hate to say it, but this is actually...  pretty active and friendly for Sal.  I'm not trying to insult him, just saying I like this side of him and wish we saw more of it.  He kinda stands back and waits for something that he thinks is worth bothering to say or do.  He's also not tunneling anyone, just tossing in very blunt comments about his opinions or occasional jokes to remind us he's here and hasn't ditched.  This is town Sal.  Now, maybe he's realized that this behavior would pocket a few people, like me, and it's a show.  That's always true.  Regardless, that's what I see.  When Sal really gets down and dirty as maf/evil/whatever, though, you'll see some clever efforts.

So, Five, speak up for us.  Do a readlist maybe, an elim grouping, point out some weird things that you think need attention.  Goodness knows we're all kinda floundering.

Do you like apples?

Sure

I said before I think Zemaj is scum and the remaining 1-2 are within Sal, Jim, Crystal, and BKWM. Right now I'm feeling better about BKWM; their posting has sped up and it does seem like she's trying to find scum. Which isn't actually even a good reason to townread someone but what else do I have. Jim I have nothing to say about really. Sal I do think has done a few scummy things thus far: first of all, the question he asked to Imp seemed like it could have been rolehunting. Second of all, the vote on Zemaj was pretty noncommittal and no reason was given except "I agree with the people already voting". Crystal has been hanging back I feel, talking about SKs a lot which could just be making content without actually trying to hunt. Overall I'm a little suspicious of her.

zemaj and BWKM I don't think are town. Zemaj being suspicious about NQT and Gail makes me suspicious about zemaj. Imp is not doing anything that screams suspicious to me, but unfortunately for her I think that her claim is a scummy truth and I'm willing to vote her out at the end of the day. Jim and Sal are neutral to me.

What exactly is your reason for suspecting BKWM?

OMGUS2 UnVote

Glad you're here and contributing.

zemaj Seconding the request for more information on your read on Gail. I am still suspicious of her despite my unvote.

Because you aren't lurking anymore. I was prodding you in hopes you would offer further analysis or insight or other useful input, and not voting you out of genuine suspicion. I am in fact not certain my vote needs a home on D1. I would however like as much information as possible from every player.

Sal your omissions are obnoxious and I saw enough of that devious mind in the mechanics of that last game. Why are you suspicious of zemaj. I would like more explanation if you please sir.

So Crystal, then what are you looking to hunt for on D1? Given that no night actions have occurred, any non-town dying to the lynch on D1 is a victory for town. Thus all of this talk about making sure we pick the right scum to eliminate is completely pointless (as I and others have stated and thoroughly explained). So why does any of that matter today? If you think someone is more likely to be scum (of any kind) then anyone else that should be good enough for D1. We collectively have no way other than lynching to determine people's true alignment today. Please stop with this red herring focus on irrelevant details and scumhunt. And I mean more than just spend all day focused on 1 player. scumhunting on Day 1 is a matter of applying pressure to anyone who seems slightly suspicious and seeing who cracks more under the pressure than everyone else. At the end of the day that is all the town has to go on. This discussion about which scum is which will be more pertinent on D2 if and only if the night actions on N1 make it relevant.

Imp: my suspicions on Gail are still high. However, she did logically refute my argument against her. I cannot in good conscience ignore that. I see that both you and zemaj are suspicious of her so I believe you understand my suspicions regarding her. Given how little info we have to go on today, I would still be willing to vote Gail because of those suspicions even if I do believe them on somewhat shaky grounds, but hey this is D1.

Also I will echo Gail's concern about the length of NQT's absence.

I for one don't believe zemaj looks particularly scummy today. I believe Gail looks far more suspicious. I feel comfortable putting my vote back on her because despite her refutation of my argument against her, I have seen no refutation of Imp's or zemaj's arguments against her (although I still would like zemaj to publicly flesh out his suspicions on gail a little more, however this vote goes I believe that will be of value moving forwards). So here NQT, per your request, is my D1 suspicions in vote form.

Oh, but for real everyone, my cult leads are genuinely Crystal and BKWM.  Their reads are weak and go with whatever other people are saying.  Even now, BKWM has admitted that when she put the pieces together on her accusation, it fell entirely and completely apart.  Yet as we approach the EoD, she is asking others to give her a reason to vote on someone she otherwise has no reason to vote.  Crystal has said very little independent than following the general vibe.  She even has skirted around me just enough so I can't pin her, but she's clearly lurking (based on her regular but somewhat shortish posts) and never moves against the flow.  That's perfect for a cult leader staying out of any thunderdome.

I would add Five for nearly the same reasons, but being new to the forum version, not knowing anyone, ~and~ their occasional odd attempts to solve...  they're excused as lost town.

Zemaj is ever so slightly less likely cult in my eyes.  I think out of everyone, he'd be the cult-ally (if we have one).  So though he's ever so slightly not as cult to me as Crystal or BKWM, his behavior itself feels like it's throwing town while often jabbing me for personal reasons.  Imp at least has a good chance of being town and is trying to solve, even if I think she's gotten off track.  Zemaj is a gamble for me alignment-wise.  If Zem flips and he's town, I'm probably next and town is doomed regardless, but if he flips Cult-leader or ally, I'll be greatly relieved.

If I get voted out, I still ask of everyone to look at BKWM and Crystal.  ...and Zem, just because.  Though he's slightly less likely leader than those two, there's a good chance he's ally, so not the worst loss...

It did not fall apart entirely and completely. You pointed out (correctly) that the most concrete point in my argument was a falsehood, and so i backed down and watched. You have continued since to appear scummy, and to not respond in anything like convincing manner to anyone's questioning of your scummy behavior. Therefore despite my lack of concrete evidence, I find you most the most suspicious. Your vote on zemaj and your stated intention to walk off in a huff seems like just trying to survive the day so you can convert someone and get backup.

Jim, I apologize if my meta understanding of the game is lacking, and I thank you for explaining why you think it so. I am new to mafia, this being I believe my third game, and I can only think my first game was under a different account on a different forum because golly gee I can't find it and I did try. But my first game was around 10 years ago so my meta being that out of date does check out. And honestly the last game was so bonkers that I don't think it did anything at all to help advance my general mafia meta. This is something I am working on.

Okay, Gail changed her vote and I didn't see it somehow but still

That cough isn't contagious is it? We are hunting for contagious people here...

Yes I did unvote you because you poked A hole in my argument against you. I dropped my suspicion and reevaluated, and despite that hole you poked in my argument, I still think you scummy. Repeatedly bringing up my anxiety response (grounded in my desire to make sure I'm not accidentally lynching another townie and hurting towns wincon, which entirely would not have been present if all I wanted was for not me to die today as I would want were I scum) does not do anything to convince me of anything.

I will however note that you may likely have realized that if your vote puts zemaj 1 vote below hammer than you cannot swoop in with the hammer.

I am perfectly willing to lie to the town (even as town) because I feel I need to lie to scum. By lying to you and letting you think my suspicions were gone, you dropped your guard, and I continued to watch. Your play since then has done nothing to alleviate my suspicions (which for the record, I never felt like I had nothing on that front). I don't care if everyone thinks that's scummy or bad play, I'm never going to stop doing that.

Also I personally find it hilarious that in my first game as scum I was on top of nearly everyone's townreads, and now that I am town, half the people here think I am scum. I've always been different as a three headed chicken billed platypus, don't know what else to tell ya'll.

Thank you zemaj. This is helpful in making me more comfortable with my vote on Gail.

Crystal: I find myself having a hard time reading you, sus-meter hovering slightly above neutral. Mostly my problem with you is that I don't like your reads on others. For one, last game as town, Gail accidentally hammered someone. I suspect she is paying much more attention to the vote count now.

I would ask if that information makes you rethink that gut "oh that's town behavior" check you got from her unvote on zemaj.

From my perspective, I am reading zemaj as town today. If gail is as well, she wants to be able to hammer him.

Still no idea what Sal is thinking. Reading every post in context five times is worthless it seems. If Sal is town, then I see a good faith removal of vote from zemaj after being satisfied of townieness and then putting on someone they think is scum. If scum, I see idk smoke and mirrors and really good ones.

Five I read town because looks lost, although I would like to see more from you before end of day. Even if it is just more being lost.

I am thinking that Gail voted zemaj, and then realized her vote made him L-1 when she remembered what happened last game and double checked the vote count. Then she moved her vote somewhere safe, onto someone that others have suspicions of but neither has a vote nor is overly aggressively questioning her thus avoiding an accusation of an OMGUS vote. I see careful, planned, albeit highly ADHD, scum behavior here.

Crystal I have as slightly scummy in my reads. If it was D2 I wouldn't consider myself ready to lynch here, but late on D1 this is acceptable to me.

Jim I read slightly town. Would not vote.

NQT I read slightly town. Would not vote.

Imp I read as town. More than Jim or NQT but less than zemaj. The weird mechanics claim is something I would claim as town but never claim as scum personally, so I find it townie, and I haven't seen anything glaringly scummy even with the overwhelming amount of material to pour through.

BKWM I read as a crazy witch hanging from the ceiling fan by her ankles while splashing people with chocolate from the fondue fountain, which is as it should be.

Updated vote-count: (baselined from Fal's post #172)

Not Voting (2): Imp, Jim Groovester

Hammer at 5 votes.

ftfy

My top two scumreads are voting for me. I find this amusing.

I am 100% certain that nothing in the mechanics of mafia prevents a self-vote. Also from what I'm looking at Gail, the majority of your reason for sussing me is OMGUS. My evidence for this is that between when I unvoted you and then voted you again, you were townreading me. I believe your suspicion of Crystal to be genuine.

Further, several of my legitimate town reads did double takes when I unvoted you like that. You just were visibly relieved, tried to pocket me, and moved on as though nothing was amiss.

BKWM (2): Crystalizedmire, Gail_42
Crystalizedmire (1): Salvatore Monday
FiveBalesOfHay (0):
Gail_42 (3): zemaj,  BKWM, FiveBalesOfHay
Imp (0):
Jim Groovester (0):
notquitethere (0):
Salvatore Monday (1): notquitethere
zemaj (0):

No Execution (0):

Not Voting (2): , Imp, Jim Groovester

Hammer at 5 votes.

~2 hours left. Here is where the vote count stands.

BKWM (2): Crystalizedmire, Gail_42
Crystalizedmire (1): Salvatore Monday
FiveBalesOfHay (0):
Gail_42 (3): zemaj,  BKWM, FiveBalesOfHay
Imp (0):
Jim Groovester (0):
notquitethere (0):
Salvatore Monday (0):
zemaj (1): notquitethere

No Execution (0):

Not Voting (2):  Imp, Jim Groovester

Hammer at 5 votes.

~2 hours left. Here is where the vote count stands.

heh... my turn

Fair play. I will do better.

Most of it... the rest in the next post.

[Imp]

The end of BKWM's D1 town game posts:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am perfectly willing to lie to the town (even as town) because I feel I need to lie to scum. By lying to you and letting you think my suspicions were gone, you dropped your guard, and I continued to watch. Your play since then has done nothing to alleviate my suspicions (which for the record, I never felt like I had nothing on that front). I don't care if everyone thinks that's scummy or bad play, I'm never going to stop doing that.

Also I personally find it hilarious that in my first game as scum I was on top of nearly everyone's townreads, and now that I am town, half the people here think I am scum. I've always been different as a three headed chicken billed platypus, don't know what else to tell ya'll.

NQT Here is my explanation for that. Believe me or don't, but don't overlook that I had a good reason for what looked weird, and that you are not the only one that did a double take about it. In fact one of my reasons for suspecting Gail is that she DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS WEIRD AT THE TIME

I think this is in the realm of tactical differences of opinion and not necessarily alignment indicative but:

1. Town lying about their powers to trick scum into making bad decisions based on bad info: GOOD

2. Town lying about who they suspect and why: BAD

But moreover, "I was totally faking dropping my suspicions" is just not very believable! You have to see that this looks like a rookie scum lie, right??

Now maybe you really were doing what you said you were doing. Or maybe you're town and are trying a desperate post-hoc rationalisation for your actions.

But either way, you can see how this kind of play lowers your credibility in the daygame, right?

After my last performance your going to accuse me of rookie scum tactics?

Well, If you're going to make me vote majority then I will move my vote to Crystal. There is high consensus of scum behavior on her part that has nothing to do with the trap I set for the my other scumread of the day. I am happy with either Gail or Crystal going today.

For the record I am town and my ability has more pro cult value than pro town value idk that actually means anything

I say that under the assumption that I'm about to flip town and you will all have that info anyways. just wanted to put that out there so town knows for tomorrow

Oh I in no way mean to say I see pro town value in the ability. I just question the assumption that means crystal started as scum and hasn't just been drawing a convert all day

It may be that all town started with abilities designed not to help town but to help whatever cult they eventually may or may not wind up in

Seeing as how it is a REASONABLE assumption that one cult or the other will win in a cult game

I can see how I could use my ability to stop myself from being recruitable, so it isnt without pro town value. I can just see alot more fun I could have with it otherwise.

No I do not. Unless I am misunderstanding this thing. It's just a redirect really.

Anti SK redirect. Return to sender.

Yeah I'm weird. It gets me in trouble irl too. One day town me will eventually survive D1. Good luck ya'll.

I want to pull out this quote, I think it's very real.

I think this is in the realm of tactical differences of opinion and not necessarily alignment indicative but:

1. Town lying about their powers to trick scum into making bad decisions based on bad info: GOOD

2. Town lying about who they suspect and why: BAD

But moreover, "I was totally faking dropping my suspicions" is just not very believable! You have to see that this looks like a rookie scum lie, right??

Now maybe you really were doing what you said you were doing. Or maybe you're town and are trying a desperate post-hoc rationalisation for your actions.

But either way, you can see how this kind of play lowers your credibility in the daygame, right?

After my last performance your going to accuse me of rookie scum tactics?

BKWM looks pretty close to perfect when actually mafia-aligned.  She was stressed, pessimistic, and bored in scumchat, never expressed that in this game thread from our maf game together, except very faintly as she tried to figure out how to not get shot at all/especially not by NQT maybe.... and how to get me a power up.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hello Darlings, so good to see you all again. So it is my understanding that despite the cheaters knowing what bullets they are shooting, they don't actually get extra kills. (I mean this is Sal cooking here, so maybe that's just wishful thinking). Shooting someone has a 1/6 chance of killing them, but otherwise it's a helpful upgrade. I don't think I agree that we should wait to shoot all our shots, but I also think it's a little much that we have people coming out the gate with such itchy trigger fingers. Let a guy post before you shoot him, goodness lmao

Like, honestly I can see a scenario where waiting to shoot gives cheaters an advantage. If they can intentionally power each other up, they can get stronger over time. Also I'm worried that since town can't actually kill on command, we run the risk of not being able to kill a scum player in a timely manner if we ferret one out. I've got nothing but this gun, no starting actions or anything, if that's normal for town this game, then town players getting beneficial abilities by being shot is going to be important for us winning this game as well. I think we as town need to shoot everything that moves honestly. Gonna hold off on firing just yet, but I will before EOD for sure

Okay, I know shooting yourself is in the spirit of Russian Roulette, but I still don't think that is good town play.

Why are you doing a thing you actively recommend town not do? You lynched me for less last game, why are you doing this?

Well, I do hope you wind up not dead from your own kill. Good luck with that. Please try to resist the urge to self target everyone.

I am officially suspicious of NQT

My problem with the chain of everyone shoots and everyone gets shot is that its so random. No one is actually scumhunting. It doesn't feel like mafia anymore, it just feels like a craps table. Even for D1, I don't really like the idea. We should be on the lookout for scumtells on D1, even if that process usually fails. If all we do is sit here and commit to everyone in town getting shot, then if there is more than one cheater they will never intentionally kill one another, and thus town has just said we're just gonna roll the dice and see what happens, while the cheaters can shoot each other on purpose with powerups and shoot town on purpose with killshots and no one in town will ever have any suspicions of their motives because they are just playing along with what town wants to do (which again, is for some odd reason NOT actually scumhunt)

So we have NQT over here shooting himself like he knows its gonna be okay, and we have zemaj over here trying to convince the town that we shouldn't be scumhunting. Just because they gave us all guns doesn't mean this isn't a mafia game. We have to scumhunt to win. The cheaters information advantage is too great to overcome with any reliability if we just decide to leave things to chance.

I mean, zemaj, I get what you're saying that town could survive that, but what if a cheater knows their first bullet will be a kill. and then two townies kill two other townies niether of whom has fired off their kill yet. that is effectively 5 dead town on day one if it plays out the worst it could, three legit dead town, and two town without a kill. if there are 3 cheaters (which I don't think impossible in this setup) then town could be down to one kill on D2 vs 3 cheaters, and game over. Town might very well NOT survive this plan of yours. I really do think our best course of action is to be careful. Like, if a townie kills a townie that hasn't killed yet, town loses 2 kills, not 1. These mechanics are dangerous guys.

I feel like treating the shots like votes firing squad style is probably a better option for town. I like the way Gail is thinking here that we could split the vote between top suspects with a chance to drop them both. It's definitely a gamble though. Like, what if we scumhunt correctly, shoot the scum 6 times and he just gets 6 upgrades like that isn't ideal but more likely he will die. There is definitely an element of randomness here we can't get around, but I still think this might be our best shot.

here is a readlist right now:

NQT: shooting self is not a good look. Despite verifying that he can change that and openly admitting it isn't town play, hasn't changed that. Highly sus.

zemaj: appears to be trying to solve mechanics. very difficult to read ever.

Gail: normal mechanical spaghetti monster posts for D1. was townie before doing that. looks town.

Quarque: I am glad to see quarque come off his die cast shot and actually shoot someone he seems to suspect, but I would like to see more here.

Imp: putting good effort into solving, posting novels, looks town

Fal: appears to be keeping a cool head amongst the chaos. Also appears to be trying to justify NQT's D1 self shot, albeit indirectly. possible connection to my top scumread

Crystal: whenever you actually finish reading, care to tell the class... idk... literally anything besides which direction you are pointing your gun? slight sus for lurking.

NJW: is solving, both game and mechanics, and also seems like a chill dude (which is NAI I know) withholding judgement here

Okay, I see the reasoning for not wanting to do firing squads from zemaj here ninjaing my reads list and also from NJW as I was reading his posts, and I am gonna back that idea down for D1. The circle idea gives us more information, and also gives us the potential for having townies that know they don't have a kill and can safely pump powerups into their townreads, (or even themselves, I mean hopefully you read yourself as town but if not please do feel free to share that with the class).

I will join the circle for the information. Shoot Crystal

I agree with Gail here. Although I do not like the loop being closed with 2 people not in it. But there is just too much danger in letting the sussiest player on D1 just walk away without taking fire. I will say now that either Imp and NJW need to no shoot or they need to negotiate their way into the circle, but as discussed before by multiple players, town cannot risk allowing 2 players to pair off and shoot each other on D1, it gives scum too much of a chance to run away with the game. I'm not seeing big red flags on either of those two, but still, we can't have it.

Imp, NJW I am open to either of the two of you targeting crystal and me targeting you. I see value in leaving one player out of the circle, but not two. I would like to see one or both of you take me up on this offer. We need as much information as we can if we are going to solve this ya'll.

Or take gail up on her offer. either way. My main concern here is don't target each other please. Also I would like to see ya'll in the circle.

There are a few players I that haven't really contributed yet today. Crystal has only one post all day unless I missed it somewhere. Ya'll your D1 reads are potentially important for a town win down the line, please get in here. I know there are alot of players who aren't taking the game that seriously because of the new mechanics, but I want to win, so I would appreciate ya'll coming in and helping out the town with your reads of the game state and other players.

While I agree that NQT is being very sus, I still maintain my reasons for walking back my support for a firing squad on D1. we risk spending multiple town kills on one player, who we can't be sure will actually flip as scum. We could theoretically all be overreacting to NQT walking into the Russian roulette room and holding a gun to his head as though he were playing Russian roulette just for the lols. I think it's not a sure enough thing yet to risk wasting our town kills AND winding up not knowing who even still has a kill. I think we gotta stick with the circle, and maybe D2 we can go for a firing squad, but we just need the information so badly, and a firing squad has the potential to actually make us know less than we know now. It seemed like a good idea to me at first, but the more I think about it, the more I am against the idea.

Oh yay, no one is shooting my top scumread, and I can't target him because he is targeting me. ça la vi. somebody wanna shoot this guy for me please?

I mean I'm committed to the circle idea so I wouldn't move either way but I'm frustrated that no one is targeting him. I will say I am very happy that town is rallying behind this idea though. It forces scum to be under the gun this turn in order to look town, which is a pretty ingenious strategy.

Quarque we haven't heard from since post#50, NJW hardly better at post#61, would love to hear from ya'll. Only heard from Crystal twice, would like to see more there as well.

zemaj, I know that he is more likely to get a powerup than die, but also I don't want him to have zero chance of death either. This is a weird game where scum doesn't have to kill us to win, but we do have to kill scum to win. We gotta shoot at him, even if it could make him stronger. It's the only way. I don't really love the idea of anyone sitting out from the circle after having spelled that out so specifically either. It's not just that I want everyone to be shooting, I want every scum to have a chance of death today.

Oh yay. Shoot NQT. Chain integrity intact

wait UNVOTE

yeah i just remembered that

crap what's the chain NQT is targeting me and I'm disconnected who is at the end

Well I'm not targeting NQT and Imp isn't targeting anybody

I can't take that offer zemaj, NQT is aiming his highly sus bullet at me

I'm not scared you're scared shutup

I think I have to Shoot Imp

*rolls in town square with gail*

Gonna look these over myself and compare to this game.  Analysis soonish.