Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 04:00:49 am

Title: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 04:00:49 am
Well I caught one of these things and well, they don't have poison, they don't make webs, should I just use him/her for war?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: JackOSpades on April 19, 2012, 04:11:04 am
see if you can train it into a WAR spider... >.<
but it makes you wish dwarves could use/train mounts doesn't it
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 04:18:15 am
Skeletal marksdwarf riding a jumping spider...

That would ruin df.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: JackOSpades on April 19, 2012, 04:35:08 am
minecraft FTW...

but no, we already far worse things to deal with.

besides adding mounted undead troops to a necromancer siege might result in even more !FUN!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 04:43:18 am
Skeletal spongemen riding giant sponges.. OH THE HORROR.. -screams-

3 years later

-still screaming- THEY'VE MOVED A SQUARE CLOSER OSHT!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 10:38:42 am
Yeah GJS's can't be tamed for war :<.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: NedeN on April 19, 2012, 12:26:27 pm
So youre going to do the right thing here... and add [TRAINABLE] right?!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 12:34:37 pm
Dunno, I want to get a breeding pair first (I have a male at the moment and I've seen a female lurking around(Maybe they were together and I seperated them? ;'( )) and make their bebbiez domesticated.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 19, 2012, 12:36:19 pm
They don't have child-ens either, so you'd have to add a [CHILD] tag.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 12:36:40 pm
Don't they lay eggs?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 19, 2012, 12:37:08 pm
No they do not.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 12:38:14 pm
omfg ._.

So basically I have a pussy GCS that has no abilities.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: miauw62 on April 19, 2012, 12:40:19 pm
Mod the raws
Add: [TRAINALBE] and [CHILD]
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 19, 2012, 12:40:46 pm
Don't forget that chitin has the defensive properties of papier-mâché, so one good punch in the head from anything will probably kill it.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Mr S on April 19, 2012, 01:33:18 pm
The kitten slashes at the Goblin Axelord in the upper body with the claw, front left paw, slicing the upper body through the +<<*papier-mâché* breastplate>>+!  The Goblin Axelord's aorta has been severed!  Many arteries have been severed!
The Goblin Axelord looks sick!
The Goblin Axelord retches!
The Goblin Axelord has bled to death!
Fluffball the Purring Menace of Severing, kitten, has been elected mayor!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: jaxy15 on April 19, 2012, 01:42:57 pm
Fluffball the Purring Menace of Severing, kitten, has been elected mayor!
If that happened, I'd kill it as fast as possible. I couldn't keep up with all the yarn balls it would mandate.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 02:23:49 pm
So just [child] will make it lay eggs, have babies/adolescent children?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 19, 2012, 02:36:04 pm
[CHILD:1] Will make a breeding pair give birth to live young that will grow into adults after one year.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Garath on April 19, 2012, 03:20:13 pm
it needs some egglayer tags at the [FEMALE] caste. I usually just copy them from somewhere and edit them for size and clutch size
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Cobaldunderpants on April 19, 2012, 03:26:45 pm
Actually I caught and tamed one once. I put him in a pasture outside my fortress entrance. While he didn't have webs or venom he did have two things: Speed and courage. He was really useful for spotting and running down kobolds. Lack of poison isn't much of a hinderance when you fight something a baby could kill.

When a goblin ambush did show up he "leapt" into the thick of it. He started biting gobos left and right while my militia was on its way to the entrance. That spider got just about every body part smashed and broken by those goblins. However, he just kept going after them, he didn't retreat or give up and kept them occupied long enough for my dwarves to tear them apart. Some may say he kept the spider's immunity to pain and fear. I say he had enough courage for the entire fortress.

It was sad watching him limp around. He survived, but there was nothing I could do to heal him. I just put him in a nice pasture in a dark area where things would be less likely to bother him.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on April 19, 2012, 03:44:20 pm
Amusingly, all these problems spring from the fact that people have no friggin' clue how spiders actually operate.

Yes, it's weaker than a giant cave spider - of course it is, it's based on a real creature, and giant cave spiders have all the advantages of multiple different forms of spiders without any of the real-life drawbacks.

Jumping spiders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_spider) are the creatures that hunt crawling insects with their ability to run and jump quickly (although many of them still do have venom).  Orb-Weaver spiders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orb-weaver_spider) are web-spinners with poison, but they are slow and clumsy to the point where they have to rely upon their webs.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Thatdude on April 19, 2012, 03:51:06 pm
So what your saying is, use Giant cave spiders to defend/ensnare/bite heads off of an attacking army, and then when they're in full retreat, send the giant jumping spiders in to hunt down any cowardly goblins that dare try to invade you.

If anyone can pull this off it would be one the best forts ever.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 19, 2012, 03:56:02 pm
That's too many spiders. Have you not seen Eight Legged Freaks? It can only end in tears.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Garath on April 19, 2012, 04:23:13 pm
No, I can only see an opportunity for win here
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Monk321654 on April 19, 2012, 05:16:52 pm
Don't forget that chitin has the defensive properties of papier-mâché, so one good punch in the head from anything will probably kill it.
If Chitin has the Properties of Papier-Mache, then bone just has the properties of paper.
Seriously, it might be bad luck on my part, but I've seen too many heads split.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 19, 2012, 05:17:43 pm
Wet paper, actually. A subtle but crucial difference.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Niyazov on April 19, 2012, 06:08:37 pm
Enjoy it while it lasts; I think they live for about a year.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Dish It Out! on April 19, 2012, 06:25:22 pm
That's too many spiders.

I'm not sure what this phrase is supposed to mean but I'm pretty sure it's damn wrong.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Eric Blank on April 19, 2012, 07:55:28 pm
Always needs more spiders?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Naryar on April 19, 2012, 08:26:34 pm
yeah giant jumping spiders don't jump, so they're not use for now.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 19, 2012, 10:30:59 pm
yeah giant jumping spiders don't jump, so they're not use for now.

They're fast, it also just demolished a rutherer in 1v1.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 20, 2012, 04:20:36 am
So it's really more of a Giant Wolf Spider.  I think I'm ok with that.  Although, a true giant jumping spider would be pretty cool.  It could leap a few dozen tiles into the middle of an invading squad.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 20, 2012, 04:45:34 am
That's too many spiders. Have you not seen Eight Legged Freaks? It can only end in tears.

Do you remember the bit where the trapdoor spiders emerged from the ground to begin nommin' people?

(A plot hole in the story being that those spiders also would've survived the explosion in the end... Have fun Aussies).

Now imagine those in a Dorf Fortress. Fighting for or against, either would work.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 20, 2012, 06:19:20 am
b+T+t

build+Traps+trapdoor spider.. A mix of a weapon trap and a cage tap where the enemy is snared 1z level down and is viciously mauled by a spider.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 20, 2012, 10:01:17 am
Do you remember the bit where the trapdoor spiders emerged from the ground to begin nommin' people?
(A plot hole in the story being that those spiders also would've survived the explosion in the end... Have fun Aussies).
Now imagine those in a Dorf Fortress. Fighting for or against, either would work.

Of course I remember, I've only seen the movie eleventeen times.

I think they'd be a great danger for the caverns, hidden away out of visibility. You don't even notice that they are there until every dwarf who enters the caverns turns up missing without any sign of a struggle. They just plod along collecting webs and then bam, in the blink of an eye they're gone.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 20, 2012, 10:45:02 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or even better, digging along a nice iron vein, when you stumble upon a mysterious tunnel... BAM! Spiders everywhere, penumbra style.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 20, 2012, 11:04:24 am
Digging out an adamantine vein when BOOM 'eerie cavern' and spiderdemons come flying out spraying webs, spiderman style.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: ASCIt on April 20, 2012, 11:12:33 am
I just tested a giant brown recluse against a Yeti. Guess who won with a single broken foot?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: LumberingOaf on April 20, 2012, 11:15:57 am
I just tested a giant brown recluse against a Yeti. Guess who won with a single broken foot?

All of dwarfdom.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: ASCIt on April 20, 2012, 11:18:21 am
Interestingly, he was also able to beat down a Batman, a Beakdog, a Black Mamba man, and a Blizzard man (one on one, at least), before finally getting demolished by a bronze colossus.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on April 20, 2012, 11:46:22 am
So it's really more of a Giant Wolf Spider.  I think I'm ok with that.  Although, a true giant jumping spider would be pretty cool.  It could leap a few dozen tiles into the middle of an invading squad.

Jumping spiders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_spider#Behavior) are a somewhat diverse group, and some of them do have venomous bites, but the jumping is probably what most people expect, just because of the name.

Some species will tether themselves to where they jump from when they make a jump, and can spring back to where they jumped off of their silk lifeline, in case they miss their target.  They also love to jump down on prey from above, so it acts as a bungie cord safety line. 

Diving down on dwarves from ledges in caverns would make for a rather neat surprise, especially if they could form some "ladders" of silk when they jumped. 
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: jcnorris00 on April 20, 2012, 12:51:09 pm
(A plot hole in the story being that those spiders also would've survived the explosion in the end... Have fun Aussies).

That's not a plot hole, that's leaving the door open for a sequel.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Niyazov on April 20, 2012, 03:29:50 pm
So it's really more of a Giant Wolf Spider.  I think I'm ok with that.  Although, a true giant jumping spider would be pretty cool.  It could leap a few dozen tiles into the middle of an invading squad.

Jumping spiders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_spider#Behavior) are a somewhat diverse group, and some of them do have venomous bites, but the jumping is probably what most people expect, just because of the name.

Some species will tether themselves to where they jump from when they make a jump, and can spring back to where they jumped off of their silk lifeline, in case they miss their target.  They also love to jump down on prey from above, so it acts as a bungie cord safety line. 

Diving down on dwarves from ledges in caverns would make for a rather neat surprise, especially if they could form some "ladders" of silk when they jumped.

Also they are just the cutest little things.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5246177421_066c2490da_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 20, 2012, 03:35:58 pm
Spiderbro ;_;
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: kaijyuu on April 20, 2012, 03:38:32 pm
That spider can't beat this one:

(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/i-shall-play-you-the-song-of-my-people.gif)
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Cobaldunderpants on April 20, 2012, 05:14:03 pm
That is the cutest thing I have ever seen come from spider-kind.

Also while we are tossing around fun spider facts: Jumping spiders have some of the best vision of all spiders. They are the eagles of the spider world.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 20, 2012, 05:23:29 pm
Can they spot an maul kobold thieves to death?

If they can catch them before they flee, keeping a few on guard duty near doors would be worth the lack of silk.

Paper mache' chitin only has to hold up against copper daggers, afterall.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Cobaldunderpants on April 20, 2012, 05:25:29 pm
Can they spot an maul kobold thieves to death?

If they can catch them before they flee, keeping a few on guard duty near doors would be worth the lack of silk.

Paper mache' chitin only has to hold up against copper daggers, afterall.
I had one set up like that. He could catch up to the kobolds, but more often than not they could dodge his attacks.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 20, 2012, 05:29:28 pm
Then they need danger room training first against disarmed goblins to get their bite skill to phenomenal levels first!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Monk321654 on April 20, 2012, 05:32:48 pm
I thought most animals can't learn?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 20, 2012, 05:35:53 pm
Ground hunting spiders are an exception in the arthropoda family.

Many species are smart enough to navigate a maze, and even remember the maze.

A giant version could possibly be very intelligent indeed. Just slap the [canlearn] tag on. Already slapping [trainable], [pet], and [child], so in for a penny, in for a pound.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Monk321654 on April 20, 2012, 05:39:06 pm
Is this Real Life, DF, or both?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 20, 2012, 05:44:15 pm
Real life.

complimentary wikipedia entry (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portia_(spider)#section_2)

Giant versions of vermin creatures often lack child, pet, trainable, etc... tags.  Adding canlearn to jumping spiders seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Niyazov on April 20, 2012, 06:42:12 pm
Ground hunting spiders are an exception in the arthropoda family.

Many species are smart enough to navigate a maze, and even remember the maze.

A giant version could possibly be very intelligent indeed. Just slap the [canlearn] tag on. Already slapping [trainable], [pet], and [child], so in for a penny, in for a pound.

Jumping spiders have one of the highest encephalization quotients among invertebrates, comparable to octopi (although as a smaller animal overall jumping spiders are not as intelligent). They also likely have the highest brain-body mass ratio of all animals, as their brains occupy almost their entire cephalothorax. Moreover, in chelicerates a lot of the functions that are handled by the brain stem in vertebrates are handled by autonomous systems distributed through the body, leaving more of that brain mass available for other things (mostly dealing with the input from a visual system that gives them essentially 360 degree vision.) Although on our planet a giant spider could not exist for other reasons, a theoretical giant jumping spider could be a very smart critter indeed.

However one thing that is important to realize about spiders is that they spend most of their time inactive. Jumping spiders are active hunters and spend more time than other invertebrates moving around, but in general a lot of their time is spent in an extremely stimulus-deprived condition. As Charles Elton said, "All cold-blooded animals spend an unexpectedly large proportion of their time doing nothing at all, or at any rate, nothing in particular." As such, jumping spider intelligence is probably of a very different nature than that of a mammalian carnivore, as their intelligence must be employed in very brief, intense bursts rather than all the time.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on April 20, 2012, 06:45:23 pm
That is the cutest thing I have ever seen come from spider-kind.

Discounting Yamame?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ground hunting spiders are an exception in the arthropoda family.

Many species are smart enough to navigate a maze, and even remember the maze.

A giant version could possibly be very intelligent indeed. Just slap the [canlearn] tag on. Already slapping [trainable], [pet], and [child], so in for a penny, in for a pound.

Jumping spiders have one of the highest encephalization quotients among invertebrates, comparable to octopi (although as a smaller animal overall jumping spiders are not as intelligent). They also likely have the highest brain-body mass ratio of all animals, as their brains occupy almost their entire cephalothorax. Moreover, in chelicerates a lot of the functions that are handled by the brain stem in vertebrates are handled by autonomous systems distributed through the body, leaving more of that brain mass available for other things (mostly dealing with the input from a visual system that gives them esssentially 360 degree vision. Although on our planet a giant spider could not exist for other reasons, a giant jumping spider could be a very smart critter indeed.

However one thing that is important to realize about spiders is that they spend most of their time inactive. Jumping spiders are active hunters and spend more time than other invertebrates moving around, but in general a lot of their time is spent in an extremely stimulus-deprived condition. As Charles Elton said, "All cold-blooded animals spend an unexpectedly large proportion of their time doing nothing at all, or at any rate, nothing in particular." As such, jumping spider intelligence is probably of a very different nature than that of a mammalian carnivore, as their intelligence must be employed in very brief, intense bursts rather than all the time.

They also have the best eyesight of any invertebrate, and that whole "translating colors into meaningful data" thing takes tremendous processor power.  A likely overwhelming portion of their brains are likely devoted to the sense of sight.

Of course, that said, they should, at the very least, be more trainable than a crocodile, which counts as a mount in this game.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 20, 2012, 06:47:17 pm
Yet more reasons why I bloody love spiders.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: ASCIt on April 20, 2012, 07:08:48 pm
Spiders are cool. Once, I fell asleep with one sitting right over my head, on my ceiling. I like to think that (s)he was guarding me from teh monstorz.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Monk321654 on April 20, 2012, 07:18:41 pm
I still don't know why most people are so afraid of our Arachnid Friends.
Although probably the only reason they don't activally try to kill US is because we're so much bigger.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Niyazov on April 20, 2012, 07:34:31 pm
I still don't know why most people are so afraid of our Arachnid Friends.
Although probably the only reason they don't activally try to kill US is because we're so much bigger.

(http://cs10545.userapi.com/u4865831/-14/x_4838a0fd.jpg)
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on April 20, 2012, 08:39:45 pm
I still don't know why most people are so afraid of our Arachnid Friends.
Although probably the only reason they don't activally try to kill US is because we're so much bigger.

Yeah, pretty much.  Many of the orb-weavers are so nearly blind and hard-wired for predatory behavior that their mating dances are not so much to get females in the mood or prove a male's fitness as it is to just say "I'm one of your own kind, please don't eat me."  And even then, the males tend to bring along snacks to distract the female with while they get in and get out as fast as possible. 

But on the plus side, the overwhelming majority of spiders use neurotoxins that are essentially useless against humans, and some scientists believe may actually have theraputic benefits.  Not so much because humans are immune as it is because spiders have dosages of nervous system-paralyzing venom designed to take down a nervous system the size of a grain of sand, and our brains are about a hundred times more massive than their entire body. 

To a spider's perspective, attacking a human is like attacking a mountain that will get angry at you and attack back.  It's something you just don't want to do.

Plus they eat mosquitos and mites that would otherwise be parasites on humans, and they eat crop-ruining pests, so spiders in real life are overall beneficial to humans.

That said, magically GIANT spiders are gonna eat ya.

Plus, the brown recluse is a type of spider that doesn't use one of those paralytic venoms, and it was added into the game because it's got a right nasty bite that basically just causes extreme freakin' pain.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: ASCIt on April 20, 2012, 09:03:03 pm
Brown recluse is my favorite, mostly because it's one of the only two actually deadly spiders around here (the other being the over-hyped black widow).
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 20, 2012, 11:31:40 pm
..Redback, Funnelweb, Mouse spider.. Why are people scared of Australia? It's not like they're just gonna walk into the house.. even though redbacks are housespiders..

Aaaanyywaaayy... Would anyone mind adding [trainable] [child] and stuff to all the giant versions for me? :D
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 20, 2012, 11:40:40 pm
Why are people scared of Australia?

Because Clock Spider.

Clock Spider!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sus on April 20, 2012, 11:47:28 pm
Why are people scared of Australia?

Because Clock Spider.

Clock Spider!
Also paralysis ticks and irukandji (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irukandji_jellyfish).

Seriously, everything down there seems to be specially designed to kill people.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 21, 2012, 12:01:40 am
Pfft irukandji is more around NZ than aus.

You only get paralysis ticks if you're a grubby, dirty, dwarf who sleeps OUTSIDE in the mud like an elf.

Snakes run AWAY from you, plus they can't get inside.

Spiders are actually cool and cuddly.

Who's retarded enough to swim with jellyfish anyway? Seriously.

The only major problem are the bogans.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 21, 2012, 12:09:21 am
You neglected to mention carnivorous drop-bears.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 21, 2012, 02:16:25 am
They also have the best eyesight of any invertebrate
I rather doubt that (did you get that from wikipedia? If so, the exact quote is "some of the best"). 
In any case, it all depends on how you define best.  They have excellent visual acuity over a fairly long range, very good detection of movement, pretty decent color vision, and their vision extends into the ultraviolet.  Stomatopods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp#Eyes), on the other hand, also have excellent visual acuity (it's not at all easy to compare visual acuity between different animals), 12 separate kinds of color sensing cells with 4 of them dedicated to ultraviolet, implying that they see 12 distinct colors, where we only have threeish (though it's entirely possible it doesn't work like that, you'd have to ask one to be sure).  They can also sense plane polarized light, and distinguish between the planes of rotation extremely well.  At least 2 species can detect and differentiate circular polarized light as well, much better than the finest human made sensors.  They have three (non color) regions of detail vision in each eye, as well as the full color midband, giving them trinocular depth perception with just a single eye, which they take advantage of by mounting their eyes on independently movable stalks.  Also, the "smasher" type can punch incredibly hard, hard enough to smash snail shells and aquarium glass.  The "spearer" type will just stab the crap out of you.


In short, stomatopods are perhaps the second coolest arthropods (after ants).  Jumping spiders are also awesome, though.


EDIT:  found an article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/350.shtml) on some bbc website saying Zebra Spiders (a very cute kind of Salticid) have the "best vision of any arthropod",  but I'm unwilling to believe that without a citation, or at least an explanation of how they are measuring that.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on April 21, 2012, 01:02:10 pm
You know, it may be ironic from a person who often refers to things like spiders and snakes as cute, but aquatic creatures like lobsters and shrimp really freak me the fuck out

My response to any sort of giant shrimp that can punch holes is aquariums is "Kill it with Magma".

Anyway, I'm fairly sure that visual acuity is probably more in line with what they were talking about.  We don't think of pit vipers having better vision than a hawk just because it can see in infrared (for very limited resolutions and distances).
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: muzzz on April 21, 2012, 01:30:42 pm
Why are people scared of Australia?

If it's not because of the animals...
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 21, 2012, 07:07:06 pm
I was poking around on google scholar, reading about measurements of the vision of stomatopods and salticid spiders, and found some data.  This paper (http://www.peckhamia.com/epublications/Hill%202007%20Use%20of%20location%20information%20by%20jumping%20spiders%20V3%20EB.pdf) has some cool stuff about vision and pathfinding in salticid spiders (they are pretty good at looking at a prey item and then taking a complex indirect route that breaks visual contact to get into a position to strike, mentally computing where they are in relation to the target).  It cites a visual acuity of 2.3 arcminute in the Anterior Medial Eyes (the big central ones, which have a double lens system making them a telephoto lens) of the salticid spider Phiale.  It also has some very cute diagrams of spiders, and is well worth a look.  This paper (http://web.qbi.uq.edu.au/ecovis/Images/Justin/1993%20Some%20optical%20features%20I.pdf) has some good information about stomatopod eyes, but is a lot harder to read.  I think it says that Oratosquilla scyllarus has a visual acuity of 8.4 arcminutes in the Acute Zone of the midband, but I'm not at all sure that they're talking about the same thing as the other paper, since they call it smallest usable ΔΦv.  Just for reference, normal human visual acuity is around 5 arcminutes.  If I'm interpereting these papers correctly, jumping spiders have a fair bit better visual acuity than mantis shrimp.  I also found some cool data about accuracy of depth perception in both salticids and stomatopods, but I haven't yet figured out how to interpret the numbers given.


Interestingly, both stomatopods and salticid spiders have some unusual visual habits, where when they're examining an object to identify it, they scan their eyes back and forth across it, and also rotate their eyes.  Normal creatures only do scanning type movements when they are following a moving object, and use saccadic (jerky) movements for that sort of examination.  In the spider paper there's an adorable diagram at the bottom of page 8, showing a jumping spider leaning back and forth to scan back and forth get a good look at something (their eyes are moveable, but not to nearly the degree of stomatopod eyestalks, and they use body movements to do most of their looking).
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Niyazov on April 23, 2012, 08:04:34 am
Good find sadrice!

"One of the most endearing aspects of these spiders is a result of the subtle ρ turns that they make as they align to observed objects. Just what they are looking at, and what objects they can recognize, are of greatest interest."

Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 23, 2012, 08:52:05 am
Re-railinggg.... My spider died after like a year so, unless I get them to breed like cats they might be useless.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: ASCIt on April 23, 2012, 09:10:27 am
Actually, I think the camel spider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_spider) is pretty messed up. As in, they're cool and all, but if I saw one irl I'd mess myself. Although, since they're technically not spiders, spiders are still awesome.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 23, 2012, 01:23:15 pm
i love those things, but theyre a bit intimidating.  i find them occasionally here in northern california.  the local species is smallish, but mindlessly aggressive.  i put one in a jar and poked at it with a pencil once, it attacked the pencil, and latched on hard enough for me to lift it from the jar with the pencil.  another time i disturbed one in some dry leaves, and it immediately started wrestling with a leaf that had moved.  yet another time, i found one in my laundry hamper, which did not make me at all happy.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Cobaldunderpants on April 23, 2012, 01:25:47 pm
Actually, I think the camel spider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_spider) is pretty messed up. As in, they're cool and all, but if I saw one irl I'd mess myself. Although, since they're technically not spiders, spiders are still awesome.
Yeah, camel spiders are more closely related to ants. Solitary, four-jawed, psycho ants.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 23, 2012, 01:29:38 pm
uh, no, actually.  camel spiders are arachnids, just not spiders proper.  ants are insects, in a totally different subphyllum.  the ancestor of ants was wasplike.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Cobaldunderpants on April 23, 2012, 08:19:36 pm
Fear the day Toady decides to include Giant Camel Spiders. Apparently they can live anywhere that isn't freezing.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 23, 2012, 08:31:21 pm
They also make sounds with their pedipalps (mandible feet things).

A giant version would make terrible, low pitched scratching instead of chirping, simply from the harmonics.

Nails on chalkboard! Erk!
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: KodKod on April 23, 2012, 08:33:45 pm
What about mighty Amblypygi?

Mighty Amblypygi is far more fearsome than silly Camel Spider.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Eric Blank on April 23, 2012, 11:04:41 pm
What about mighty Amblypygi?

Mighty Amblypygi is far more fearsome than silly Camel Spider.

Well giant Amblypygi would certainly not be something you'd want to meet in a dark alley... Probably be able to kill and eat you with no problem.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 23, 2012, 11:52:48 pm
Psh, just get a bear-grylls dwarf to eat that sonnuhbch amblypig.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Eric Blank on April 23, 2012, 11:55:02 pm
Urist McGrylls cancels eat giant amblypig: giant amblypig eating Urist McGrylls.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 23, 2012, 11:56:32 pm
Gryllsie actually ate an amblypig on the show, and he enjoyed it.

And...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Jumping_Spider.jpg/200px-Jumping_Spider.jpg)
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Cobaldunderpants on April 24, 2012, 12:02:09 am
Gryllsie actually ate an amblypig on the show, and he enjoyed it.

And...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Jumping_Spider.jpg/200px-Jumping_Spider.jpg)
Daper spider is daper
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 24, 2012, 12:10:20 am
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Pmystaceus.jpg/250px-Pmystaceus.jpg)

Star Wars?
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 24, 2012, 12:14:20 am
.....bear grylls..

You do realize that 70% of the stuff he says to do in a survival situation would either kill you outright, give you a serious dose of toxic shock, or in some other fashion mortally endanger you, right?

Survivorman has a better show, IMO.

(That and bear grylls uses clearly "not wilderness" settings; see the youtube vids.)



Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 24, 2012, 12:23:59 am
Lol you can't be serious, it's entertainment, not a survival help guide.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 24, 2012, 12:28:29 am
But tv shows that are meant to be informative, or are at least pretending to, are much more entertaining when they don't insult your intelligence.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 24, 2012, 12:35:31 am
Sureee......
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: wierd on April 24, 2012, 12:50:26 am
But tv shows that are meant to be informative, or are at least pretending to, are much more entertaining when they don't insult your intelligence.

Quite right. If he wants to have a carnival geek show eating carrion, and drinking turd juice, then label it accordingly.

"Entertainment" is not a suitable explanation for getting canned tampon when the tin says tuna.

When I watch shows like that, I don't watch for "oh, its that guy that eats gross stuff!", I watch to see if the "survivalist" has a trick I don't have yet, because neat tricks are cool and fun to pick up. As such, if I have to watch the show with a bullshit filter blocking out 70% of the show, I come away underwhelmed intellectually, mentally exhausted from the filtering, and left feeling more shame than if I had spent the time masterbating to cher. (Something I DO NOT do, btw.)

Of course, your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: SRD on April 24, 2012, 02:01:47 am
It's television...


...Get used to it.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: Sadrice on April 24, 2012, 02:30:00 am
Yes, tv sucks, and is very nearly never worth anyone's time.  But it doesn't have to.
Title: Re: Giant Jumping Spider...
Post by: muzzz on April 24, 2012, 11:55:16 am
It's all fun and games, until someone thinks it isn't. I can get fairly annoyed at people who nearly kill themselves on unprepared hikes. And the problem I have with Bear & co. is that they give said idiots the illusion that they are prepared.

But then I'll tell myself that this is just natural selection making a comeback. That usually makes me feel a bit better :)