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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: Random_Dragon on March 17, 2016, 03:03:55 am

Title: [.47.02 - .47.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 17, 2016, 03:03:55 am
Yet another take on Kobold Camp? It would've been easier if I'd copy-pasted from more official attempts at KC.

Additional thanks to Flint (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=63312) for a certain idea leading to simple lockbows.

To install this mod:
1. Create a backup of the Raw folder that DF has. Just in case.
2. Replace the unmodded Raw folder with the folder provided alongside this text file.
2a: Alternatively, if you want to use graphics packs, replace the Objects sub-folder, while leaving the Graphics sub-folder untouched.
3. Generate a new world and boom, happy bolding.

Current version for .47.02 - .47.04: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14755 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14755)

Prior Versions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Changes from .47.01 Kobold Kamp: Only reason a different version was needed is due to an added entity token, which renders 47.02 raws incompatible with 47.01.

Latest updates as of January 28, 2021: Just a minor raw port over to confirm it all loads up right with 47.05, I haven't really had the chance to think up cool ideas for this one compared to my other mod I've been tinkering with.

Notable features of the mod:
* A take on Kobold Camp that's in-between their development level in-game, and the surface-restricted version as seen in traditional Kobold Camp. More stone-age, essentially.
* Useful animal products uncommon in other mods, such as use of haircloth or fermented milk drinks.
* Ability to take armor looted from enemies, and convert it into a kobold-sized equivalent.

Important Pointer Before You Start: Not all stones are usable for stone weapons. Double-check the stone screen for a quick rundown and what you can use.

Features:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Known bugs and issues:
1. No ability to salvage gauntlets. This is due to the infamous gauntlet bug, interfering with any custom reaction that outputs glove-type items. Any output would be generic "ambidextrous" gauntlets instead of left/right versions, and these generic versions can't be worn.

2. Not all of the modded-in reactions can use the "product details" option that allows producing only a specific item. Currently only wood and bone items allow it. For stone arrows or other added reactions you'll have to control desired material the old-fashioned way, using nearest or linked stockpiles.

3. Minor: Knapped stones will appear on the available materials list for finished goods, furniture, and weapon stockpiles, as well as in military uniform material selection. These materials only show up when crafting stone or gem ammuniton, or for embark/trade native metal goods, due to workarounds needed to allow stone ammo to stockpile, and due to more severe bugs that occur if I used a different workaround.

4. Choosing "play now" will bypass the normal lack of access to metalsmithing due to the hardcoded skill assignment to the starting seven. Who even picks "play now" anyway?

Appendix A, Full List of New Reactions, By Workshop:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Appendix B, List of Sharpenable Stone/Gems:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Meph on March 17, 2016, 05:24:57 am
You can copy the script "autofixhandedness" from Masterworks hack/scripts folder to fix the gloves problem. I have not tested it in the latest DF version, but it should still work.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 17, 2016, 11:02:24 am
As I'm aware of, yes. As with Adventurecraft, I'd prefer to keep the mod such that the user doesn't have to use DFHack, but given I have two released mods that could benefit from it, I might be tempted to include it for optional use. ._.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Meph on March 17, 2016, 11:43:33 am
Quote from: Random_Dragon on March 17, 2016, 11:02:24 am
As I'm aware of, yes. As with Adventurecraft, I'd prefer to keep the mod such that the user doesn't have to use DFHack, but given I have two released mods that could benefit from it, I might be tempted to include it for optional use. ._.
I'd just add the script to the download and let people know that if they have dfhack, they can drag and drop it.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 17, 2016, 01:58:03 pm
Ah, might be a good way to go about it.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: King_of_Baboons on March 17, 2016, 02:50:42 pm
Is this compatible with Adventurecraft?
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 17, 2016, 03:09:18 pm
Sadly not, at least due to overlap in certain files being edited. Though if I separated the recipes into files separate reactions instead of reaction_other, ported over body material upgrades to Kobold Kamp, and made the entity changes consistent...
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Diamond on March 22, 2016, 10:30:41 am
Noice.
As mugs were mentioned, I assume kobolds can have proper taverns going? What about libraries / book industry?
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 22, 2016, 11:20:51 am
Quote from: Diamond on March 22, 2016, 10:30:41 am
Noice.
As mugs were mentioned, I assume kobolds can have proper taverns going? What about libraries / book industry?

Taverns, yes. For even more Fun, so far I've found that visitors will arrive, even though they're coming from civilizations that would normally be hostile, and I've yet to get an actual kobold native tavern visitor.

Temples also work, but since kobolds lack religion tokens they can't be dedicated to specific gods, and citizens just spend time meditating on values.

Libraries TECHNICALLY work, but the reactions and tool tokens for papermaking and boodbinding weren't given to kobolds, so you'd have to rely on stolen books and writing material. Which would be unlikely as you wouldn't get caravans from literate civilizations, so aside from the odd visitor or invader bringing books...
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Diamond on March 23, 2016, 05:17:12 am
Gonna run a camp, any suggestions for a good graphic set to use for bolds?
Old-time classics like Ironhand, Mayday and Phoebus all have like 10 tiles of kobolds instead of proper set. I know Burned has kobolds, but everything else looks like vanilla.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 23, 2016, 05:25:35 am
No idea what I'd suggest in that suggest, DF seems to be literally the only roguelike where I find the default ASCII-ish tileset to be easier to make sense of than something more graphcs-based. ;w;

So other than my default caveat of Step 2a in handling the raw folder, I have no useful advice regarding graphics.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 30, 2016, 01:59:40 am
And now that I nudged a few updates out of the way, I'm wondering...to mechanics, or not to mechanics.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Diamond on April 04, 2016, 05:17:20 am
Quote from: Random_Dragon on March 30, 2016, 01:59:40 am
And now that I nudged a few updates out of the way, I'm wondering...to mechanics, or not to mechanics.
No, don't. The lower the tech, the more different and challenging it is, the exact reason original Kobold Camp was awesome.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 04, 2016, 12:42:32 pm
True. Plus I've yet to test the hatch method, which might deter building destroyers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Max™ on April 06, 2016, 09:54:51 pm
Well, since I've got a little version of the tileset anyways I figured I'd see if I could make a suitable petite soldier tile for ya, I've got the xcf so I can do the regular dorfs too but I figured I'd see how it looks and contrast it with the dorfletter concept I was trying to work it with.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 06, 2016, 10:25:20 pm
Ah, looks nice. But to be honest, the actual spriting is the easy part. Copy-paste in GIMP if you want kobold soldiers that use a kje (like you did in this example), with a bit more editing if you want a k with umlaut.

The hard part is providing the necessary stuff and instructing users to make use of it. Or at least, that's hassle that seems less than ideal given it's a whopping 1 extra desired tile.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Max™ on April 06, 2016, 10:50:46 pm
What's a kje? I tried variations of the dorf block/goblin pip, human bar, and then just moved the top bar of the k up and pow, looks great.

Yeah, having to put it in the raws is a bit annoying but I've just put the goblins tile full time unless Toady pops up with something that uses the 1/2 tile.

Could do a pre-step like:
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:KOBOLD]
[DESCRIPTION:A small, squat humanoid with large pointy ears and yellow glowing eyes.]
[NAME:kobold:kobolds:kobold]
[CASTE_NAME:kobold:kobolds:kobold]
[CREATURE_TILE:'k'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:6:0:1]
CREATURE_SOLDIER_TILE:18]
[LOCKPICKER][TRAPAVOID]
[INTELLIGENT]
[UTTERANCES]
[CARNIVORE]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:mischief]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY_PROPENSITY:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:GREED:50:75:100]

Then just add the [ bracket in front of the creature_soldier_tile line, pow!
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 06, 2016, 11:28:46 pm
Ќ/ќ, referencing the only linguistic use of "k with acute accent" that I know of. But yeah, with the acute you can place it without adjusting the k's positioning. For an umlaut you have to nudge the letter downward and/or shorten it a pixel or two, depending on which tileset you're doing it for (since you got 8x12 tile space, 10x12, and 16x16). And even then, using a flattened umlaut like some of the uppercase tiles (like Ü) is easier than the full umlaut used in ë and elsewhere.

And hmm, using a missing bracket might work. :V
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Diamond on April 08, 2016, 03:50:51 am
Here is some feedback from about 2 years

- no mechanisms mean no well and no pump, so basically no water access on salty biomes

- no mechanisms also mean no traction benches. Which may be fitting to the setting, but I'd still like to have an option.

- kobolds climb trees all the time and mostly refuse to get down. Have to chop the trees to save the dumbasses, injuring them in process. Can it be fixed by something like giving them innate climbing skills?
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 08, 2016, 01:02:54 pm
Ah, right. Regarding wells, this is one reason why I've generally restricted myself to embarking on rivers or streams. Especially since fishing rapidly becomes an essential food source. Even just a temperate biome can cause trouble if the river freezes, but at the very least you can secure a cistern with careful digging.

Traction benches and wells I'm not yet sure about. While it'd be possible to add, say, a reaction for wooden mechanisms since wells don't need the mechanics labor, traction benches outright need the mechanics workshop. Unless I likewise added a separate reaction to make traction benches. I've yet to see any injuries making them essential in a kobold kamp though, and can't recall

Meanwhile, I could've sworn that screw pumps didn't actually need mechanisms to build, so manually-pumped desalination might be an option if I add corkscrews to their trap component list.

For climbing though, dorfs are apparently also known to do that. Though I will admit the only time I've encountered that bug so far was in kobold kamp.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 08, 2016, 07:56:38 pm
Oh. Oh wait. You need pump operating to pump them, so I'd still have to enable mechanics.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: toasteroftoast on April 08, 2016, 08:49:40 pm
Hullo, just wanted to say thanks for the  mod; and a quick question:
Would it be possible to enable the use of stone traps for the kobolds for catching/taming and trading caged creatures?
I am using the Modest Mod 'tame everything' module, but unfortunately so many things can chew through the wood traps, which led me to wonder if it would be possible to allow one of the workshops to make stone traps, like the carpenter can make wooden ones.
Do forgive me if I have simply overlooked the means to do this, as I am quite new to Dwarf Fortress.
Really enjoying the kobolds mod, though. Please keep it up!
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 08, 2016, 08:51:47 pm
The bigger problem with that is, once again, the fact that I'd have to enable mechanics for that to work in the first place. Once again it seems like just giving them mechanics might make things a lot easier, but that does break the desired flavor a bit, and might remove a bit of the challenge. ;w;
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: toasteroftoast on April 08, 2016, 09:23:33 pm
Quite true regarding the breaking the flavour thing. I did worry about that myself - I was just so damned tired of the little buggers chewing out of every trap before I could tame them.
I shall have to look into modding a little myself, and see if there is some little thing I can do to allow the kobolds to improve the quality of the traps just a little, once a certain rarer quality of stone/stone-metal is found on a map, and their kamp is progressed enough.
I was just quite taken with the idea of them trying to scrounge out an existence capturing and taming lots of little wild critters, and trading them to caravans in exchange for other bits and bobs.
But with the current gnawing frenzy that goes on, it is certainly a little tough; but I do realise that is indeed the point!
Many thanks again for your assistance, and for the kobolds - Strike the mud!
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 08, 2016, 09:51:49 pm
The fact you need cage traps to tame anything is kind of annoying, I'll admit. I do wish there was a way to round up non-aggressive animals to tame them without traps. ._.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 15, 2016, 10:53:40 pm
Bug of the day: Stone bridges being impossible to build due to demanding metalsmithing, same reason behind stone goblets and sarcophagi.

Unfucked it via a tedious method that involved shifting the "counts as metal so arrows will stockpile" fix onto mimicries of the materials in question.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Eastep on April 27, 2016, 02:08:02 pm
I was playing the mod this afternoon and it's pretty fun! It seems like architecture is disabled for them though, so when the merchants arrived I couldn't get a trade depot set up to trade with them. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 27, 2016, 03:09:11 pm
Quote from: Eastep on April 27, 2016, 02:08:02 pm
I was playing the mod this afternoon and it's pretty fun! It seems like architecture is disabled for them though, so when the merchants arrived I couldn't get a trade depot set up to trade with them. Am I missing something?

It's in misc with construction, lever-pulling, alchemy etc. You can't embark with the skill or receive migrants with them, but should still be able to enable them. o.O
Title: Re: [43.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on May 10, 2016, 08:12:53 pm
Weh. I wanted to use the new stone axes for kobolds, but then there were bugs: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9738 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9738)
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 06, 2016, 02:01:41 am
And now, here's a thought...should I include reactions for repairing kobold-native gear? Only issue is no way to select based on wear level.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: philli46 on July 06, 2016, 02:07:34 pm
Hello awesome mod creator.

I've decided that while you work on this beautiful mod, I am going create a 16x16 graphics tile set exclusively for it. (Just because I've had so much fun with it!)

I'd really like your input on the work I do, because I want to creat something that fits your image of how the mod should look. So if you would kindly describe to me what you think a kobold should look like, I will post some kobold examples based on that description shortly after, and you can decide which ones to move forward with.

Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 06, 2016, 02:31:06 pm
Ah, thank you. And interesting to hear, I'm personally not sure. I would assume it'd be logical to base it off what their in-game properties imply. Which would make for a rather odd appearance given they're depicted as hairless, scaleless egg-layers with brown skin and glowy yellow eyes. Which doesn't fit with most other fantasy depictions of kobolds, often either canine or reptilian.

I vaguely recall a tile set modeled off their common depiction as cutebolds, with their comical little snout and floppy ears, and sometimes furred unlike the in-game kobolds. Personally I'm unsure what to recommend, as Dwarf Fortress is one of the only roguelikes I play where I tend to stick with the ASCII-style graphics over using a tileset.

In fact there had earlier been discussion on, at a bare minimum, offering tilesets matching the default character set except for including a soldier tile for kobolds, either ќ or k̈. I recall scraping the idea because implementing it adds steps for the mod user to do, for very little reward.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: philli46 on July 06, 2016, 03:39:48 pm
I understand your reasoning there, I'm not making this to be mandatory, just optional if the player prefers it. I'll post a few concepts I've been working on later tonight.

If this doesn't catch on its no big deal, it's fun for me to do, and then I'll have my own custom tile set to use. (I personally prefer an ascii-graphic hybrid myself. I currently use the Tergel pack with my own custom colour palette.)
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 06, 2016, 03:43:28 pm
Ah, will be interesting to see. I do wish the game had more tileset support. Sometimes I miss updating the MShock Modded tileset for CDDA.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Iduno on July 14, 2016, 02:41:49 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on April 08, 2016, 09:51:49 pm
The fact you need cage traps to tame anything is kind of annoying, I'll admit. I do wish there was a way to round up non-aggressive animals to tame them without traps. ._.

A net weapon, restricted to smaller animals? No idea how that would work, though.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 14, 2016, 04:43:26 pm
That'd be neat, but not currently something you can mod in.
Title: Re: [42.06] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Meph on July 14, 2016, 05:14:19 pm
Quote from: Iduno on July 14, 2016, 02:41:49 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on April 08, 2016, 09:51:49 pm
The fact you need cage traps to tame anything is kind of annoying, I'll admit. I do wish there was a way to round up non-aggressive animals to tame them without traps. ._.

A net weapon, restricted to smaller animals? No idea how that would work, though.
I can do that. A weapon that shoots nets and whenever it hits cages the animal in a cloth 'cage'. IndigoFenix wrote a script for that once.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 14, 2016, 05:31:43 pm
Hmm. But can it be rendered usable without adding to the instructions the mod user needs to use said mod? Because DFHack sorcery is something I'd rather not make a required element of the mod. :V
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Meph on July 14, 2016, 05:49:02 pm
The user would just make the weapons and ammo in workshops, but it would require dfhack in the background, yes.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 14, 2016, 05:53:01 pm
Hmm, I see. Not sure about using that.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Blahsadfeguie on July 31, 2016, 07:47:19 pm
Hi, big fan of kobolds here - in fact, this mod is what's getting me back into DF, and what got me to finally register on the forums, for what that's worth :L. Glad to see that interest in the primitive little troublemakers isn't completely dead.

I've had a fort going for a couple (in-game) years now, and I have a couple of things to say about the mod.

It's looking good so far! I think stone-age technology is about the right spot for Kobolds as a civ to be in. The lack of mechanics make it difficult to play DF the "vanilla" way, and I fear that a single invasion of any kind could wipe me out completely despite all the work I'm putting into my ramshackle military and rudimentary defenses. But that's probably the way this mod is meant to be.

+1 from me for corkscrews/pump operation though. That'd at least give us a few extra options for building and defense without making it too easy to cheese our way out of danger, and it doesn't feel too out of place for kobolds to just move liquids around. (well, water at least. magma, ehhh... only being able to make the parts out of wood prevents that, right?)

Another thing worth noting, I figured food might be an issue, so in addition to settling on a river, I also embarked with 10 hens thinking eggs would be a great emergency food source. However, I seem to be unable to construct nest boxes. I'm not sure if that was intentional, but it doesn't feel right to have access to egg-laying creatures but not their eggs. Oh well, guess we'll just have to settle with fried chicken instead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, a question: is there a way to satisfy the "thinking abstractly" need without setting up a library? Because a lot of my 'bolds are starting to get distracted by it, and I can't construct bookcases either.

Finally, here is a typo I found in the entity file:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
"APPOINTED_BY:CHIETAIN"
I was wondering why I started with both a chieftain and an overseer.

But yeah! Thanks for keeping the idea alive, I'll keep playing and letting you know if anything else major comes up. :L
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on July 31, 2016, 07:58:34 pm
Ah, thank you. And yeah, that would explain why overseers are showing up among the starting 7.

for nest boxes, that's easy enough for me to add. I recall I originally added nest boxes, then removed them when I found that kobold hatches never seemed to hatch, hence making kobolds viviparous.

As for screw pumps, that's hindered by the fact that enabling pump operation will grant access to all mechanics labors, and lack of labor access is literally the only thing keeping them from being able to make and use mechanisms.

As for thinking abstractly, I'm not sure if anything else can sate that need. I recall not adding bookcases and paper production because it seemed un-kobold-like. However, they already can engrave (due to providing access to masonry), so not sure. A way around that would be if I made koblds less inclined to abstract thoughts, maybe.

As for my own fort, I've been disappointed by a lack of invaders the past two or three in-game years, but against cavern creatures I've been abusing the "hatch above only way in" method of deterring building destroyers.

EDIT: Also...should I set the IS_METAL token back from only-used-by-stone-arrows faked materials to the parent stone? Essentially, if I do this I gain the ability to filter stone weapons on the squad menu, in exchange for stone bridges no longer being buildable.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Blahsadfeguie on July 31, 2016, 09:13:51 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on July 31, 2016, 07:58:34 pm
As for screw pumps, that's hindered by the fact that enabling pump operation will grant access to all mechanics labors, and lack of labor access is literally the only thing keeping them from being able to make and use mechanisms.

Really? Dang, I had no idea the labors were tied together like that. Shows what I know about modding ;_;

Quote from: Random_Dragon on July 31, 2016, 07:58:34 pm
As for thinking abstractly, I'm not sure if anything else can sate that need. I recall not adding bookcases and paper production because it seemed un-kobold-like. However, they already can engrave (due to providing access to masonry), so not sure. A way around that would be if I made koblds less inclined to abstract thoughts, maybe.

While I like the idea of philosopher kobolds, I'd have to say it would be more fitting to reduce that personality aspect. Although, in the interest of not having citizens with unfulfillable needs, gameplay-wise it might be best to enable bookcases/paper anyway. The implication being that the books will just be filled with random nonsense that not even another kobold could understand, or at best they'll be picture books filled with scribbles and cave drawings. How's that for "abstract"? :P

Quote from: Random_Dragon on July 31, 2016, 07:58:34 pm
As for my own fort, I've been disappointed by a lack of invaders the past two or three in-game years, but against cavern creatures I've been abusing the "hatch above only way in" method of deterring building destroyers.
good thing I'm too frightened of the caverns to worry about that

Quote from: Random_Dragon on July 31, 2016, 07:58:34 pm
EDIT: Also...should I set the IS_METAL token back from only-used-by-stone-arrows faked materials to the parent stone? Essentially, if I do this I gain the ability to filter stone weapons on the squad menu, in exchange for stone bridges no longer being buildable.
Go for it. I've just been building lines of floors when I've needed a bridge so far anyway.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 01, 2016, 02:46:04 am
Yeah, the reason is that enabling one labor enables the entire labor category. Mechanics, pump operation, siege engineering, and siege operation are all in the same category.

I was pondering what scholar types would make the most sense for them, possibly natural-themed ones if any. Books might be hindered by parchment being the only logical source of paper for them, which would make a library impractical. Tempting though.

In any case, for now I fixed the overseer issue, added nest boxes, and a few other things on the .43.05 version. ^^"
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Diamond on August 02, 2016, 03:48:06 am
Quote from: philli46 on July 06, 2016, 02:07:34 pm
Hello awesome mod creator.

I've decided that while you work on this beautiful mod, I am going create a 16x16 graphics tile set exclusively for it. (Just because I've had so much fun with it!)

I'd really like your input on the work I do, because I want to creat something that fits your image of how the mod should look. So if you would kindly describe to me what you think a kobold should look like, I will post some kobold examples based on that description shortly after, and you can decide which ones to move forward with.

There is a pretty neat old one

https://lairian.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/kobold-camp-revisited/

Alas, it is missing new professions and some of the older ones are confusing, but it may be helpful as a reference. I hope you are still working on it, a new graphic would be awesome.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 02, 2016, 11:21:37 am
That does seem to be the default image for how cutebolds are perceived, yeah. So far though, I've been doing more general gameplay alterations, finding bugs and other unintended consequences of my mucking about. :V

Speaking of which, so far it seems like stone bridges aren't worth all the other issues my workaround caused. They MIGHT be worth it if mechanics was available, which adds another complication to the "should stone-age bolds have mechanics" question.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Blahsadfeguie on August 02, 2016, 11:41:10 am
The idea of lacking mechanics is starting to grow on me. It encourages you to think outside the box when designing your fortress's layout. For instance, I'm wondering if it's possible to turn an aquifer into a trap for sieges using doors, small amounts of micromanagement, and making it necessary to path through deep, large pools of water to enter your fortress.

(Also, it might go without saying but I've always preferred the cutebolds to the more traditional design :L)
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 02, 2016, 01:06:13 pm
Yeah, it's still possible to work around the lack of mechanics. Anything from archery towers to wet moats to hatch abuse.

And yes, cute bold is cute and bold. Granted, the archetypal mental image of DF cutebolds still contrasts the in-game appearance a bit too. :V
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Nirur Torir on August 02, 2016, 06:50:17 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on August 02, 2016, 01:06:13 pm
And yes, cute bold is cute and bold. Granted, the archetypal mental image of DF cutebolds still contrasts the in-game appearance a bit too. :V
That's just a bunch of typos that are the first things to be fixed when I download a new version  ;)
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 02, 2016, 08:30:30 pm
Nyahaha. And what all do you change, hmm? I'm trying to recall whether I added more shades of skin and eye color to them. I do recall adding a few only-seen-in-fortress-mode things like mannerisms, at least.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Nirur Torir on August 02, 2016, 09:11:13 pm
It's been a while, so I don't remember everything. Off the top of my head: Friendlier personality traits, musicality, talking, all the mannerisms, different facial features (The size features work for any parts - like, say, randomly giving them stumpy tails or big, lizard-like tails. No easy way to change the descriptions of each, though), fur (single color per bold. Patchwork bolds are strange), live-birth, and up-sizing them to 75% of dwarf size. Sometimes I'll enable them as pets, but I remember that causing odd behavior.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 02, 2016, 09:24:35 pm
I recall making them pets makes them not controllable and unable to set labors, but still following any orders their initial skills permit. I can't recall what happens when you make a petbold fort butcher itself into extinction. :V
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Blahsadfeguie on August 05, 2016, 05:06:04 am
3 years in and I've just had my first goblin siege! They slaughtered a poor fisherkobold on their way in, caught an animal caretaker who fell behind being weighed down by about a billion plants, and engaged the marksbolds that I stationed on the roof of the fort. Cue epic firefight. One of the kobolds dodged off of the building and into the goblin mosh pit where he was promptly ripped to shreds. However, they were able to hold off the invaders until the infantry arrived.

Our stone weapons were clearly inferior against their metal armor (our attacks were deflected like 95% of the time), but thanks to pure skill, the melee troops persevered until they were able to strike at their weak points and drop them one by one. I think the kobolds stacked on top of each other to negate their size disadvantage - I saw a pile of 14 kobolds on one tile when it was over. Aside from the mentioned kobolds, there were no further casualties and most of my military got through without a scratch.

It all goes to show, size and tech level don't mean a thing when you got numbers, skill, and spirit. And here I thought I wouldn't survive a single attack... psh! :P
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 05, 2016, 10:50:55 am
And here I was worried sieges would never be a thing. Then again I've had awful luck with hostile civs in my last several fortresses. XP
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Blahsadfeguie on August 05, 2016, 02:00:24 pm
I think the difficulty lies with getting your exported wealth high enough to trigger the siege, and since you can only trade with one caravan a year and can't produce super-high-value goods... yeah.

Gives you plenty of time to prepare, though.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 06, 2016, 02:26:12 am
It...would. If I hadn't removed the trade and production triggers from the enemy civs. If I HADN"T altered the progress triggers, dwarves would potentially show up before your first cavern.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2016, 02:47:09 pm
Hey, I recently added something new to MasterworkDFs kobolds mode, that I think would be a nice addition: Pasteurizing milk, which makes it drinkable and stores it in barrels. That way the kobolds have a non-alcoholic alternative to water.

Code: [Select]
[REACTION:PROCESS_MILK]
      [NAME:Pasteurize milk]
  [DESCRIPTION:Takes a bucket of milk and makes it safe to drink, clearing bacteria from it. The milk is stored in a barrel, allowing your units to drink it. Costs 1 fuel for heating.]
      [BUILDING:KITCHEN:CUSTOM_P]
      [REAGENT:A:150:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:NONE:NONE]
         [REACTION_CLASS:MILK]
         [UNROTTEN]
      [REAGENT:B:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][CONTAINS:A][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
      [REAGENT:C:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][EMPTY][FOOD_STORAGE_CONTAINER][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
      [PRODUCT:100:5:DRINK:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:C]
      [SKILL:COOK][FUEL]
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 06, 2016, 04:36:55 pm
An interesting concept, though in practice milk is hard to produce in reasonable amounts. I'm not sure if there's much advantage over the kumis/kefir idea. o.O
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Blahsadfeguie on August 07, 2016, 01:19:06 am
Quote from: Random_Dragon on August 06, 2016, 04:36:55 pm
...though in practice milk is hard to produce in reasonable amounts.

I dunno about that one. In my current kobold fort, I have around 30 milkable animals. I've reached the point where I can have one farmer's workshop set to milk animals on repeat and it never gets canceled; pretty sure the animals are reloading faster than I can milk them all :L

And it wasn't hard to get to this point either, I just embarked with half a dozen goats and sheep (5 female, 1 male) and let nature run its course. Milk is actually not hard at all to get in decent amounts after the first couple of years. Alternatively, spam goats at embark.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 07, 2016, 09:07:04 pm
I seem to have less luck with breeding sheep though. I should've seen whether goats fared better though. :V

Anyway, the updatening. I'd say that 80% in favor of reverting the faked stone fix is impressive, but it was only 5 votes. We return to the land of mugs being called goblets.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Iceblaster on August 14, 2016, 01:03:21 pm
So I've found a bug :P (http://imgur.com/a/ZvcPY)

EDIT: Nevermind! Messed up installation.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 14, 2016, 06:31:01 pm
That's...odd. I just checked the 43.05 version and it should be correctly making picks, as the output is correct. ._.

EDIT: And yes, wooden picks are available in the embark screen, under weapons. They aren't added to the item list by default.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Iceblaster on August 15, 2016, 08:47:45 am
...I may have messed up by overwriting the original raw folder then. Going to just delete the raw folder and paste a fresh kobold kamp download on aaaand...

Yep! I messed up. Ignore that then. Thanks for letting me know it was just me XD
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 15, 2016, 11:53:51 am
Ah. So it works properly from a fresh install? Good. o3o

It always baffles me when someone copy-pastes over raw folders. Then again, I did that a few times before I was releasing these mods, and it backfired as expected.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 21, 2016, 05:22:42 pm
So. Guess what? Turns out that stone was ALREADY on the material list for squad weapons. Know what that means? I can zig-zag yet again because I'm a fucking derp, and set arrows to use faked stone again. Just need to ensure the arrow-only version doesn't populate the material lists with redundant entries.

EDIT: Scratch that, just adding the demanded token for stone ammo to stockpile messes with uniforms. >.<
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: ☼Another☼ on October 07, 2016, 07:43:54 pm
I've found a bug. At least, I'll call it that.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cg53EMbTvGktZxWmLFqpZycKE-XbbPT3aI1hJIdJP3975AQnQ0NmIH8HPVpXd-12aAVyBwy8=w1366-h768-rw-no)
(Chritlulgin has claimed the position of king of The Lantern of Ashes)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TK-6aJftcjb7_gUSXEx9mmqvATl14KRqWxNQDvHyj2N-9t7j6Vojs_JlbxeZhi5NvnSik5pI=w1366-h768-rw-no)
(The Lantern of Ashes was a dwarven civilization of the Everlasting Realms)

Notes: I'm using the LNP (Peridexis Exant 0.43.03-r06), with the tileset being CLA (18px) and this is version 43.03.

Save (With raw folder, and the last seasonal autosave):
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12490

Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on October 08, 2016, 08:38:45 pm
...what. How. I can't think of any feasible way that a kobold civilian could end up being valid for receiving a dwarven position.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Asin on December 04, 2016, 07:40:43 pm
Could someone make a tutorial on this version of Kobold Kamp?
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on December 05, 2016, 03:26:36 am
Hmm. Not sure, but I can give a good set of overall tips regarding this. That said, reading the readme file (or the OP) should prove useful overall.

Concerning Embark:
* You need to remember to add wooden picks if you want to start off with mining. The embark won't automatically add them to items because of their counting as weaponry.
* A river or stream is immensely useful. Making fermented milk isn't very efficient for sustaining kobolds, fish are the only food source as reliable as farming is for dwarves, and shells are better
* If your civilization has it available, bringing copper nuggets, obsidian, or chert is useful in the event you need a boost to your early weapons and ammo.

Concerning Not Dying:
* Arrow slits are your friends. Arrows may ping off an invader's armor an awful lot, but the combat changes currently make indirect damage by twisting joints surprisingly effective.
* The same thing mentioned above, plus kobolds being surprisingly hard to hit when well-trained, means you can afford to be bold with an enemy force if needed.
* Build a salvage workshop. If you survive one siege, this'll be astoundingly useful for converting enemy armor into a form kobolds can wear.
* If all else fails, building destroyers still can't deal with a locked hatch if it's above them, unless some other path is available to them.
* Enemy thieves will ruin the above plan in a heartbeat. Combining arrow slits, guard animals, and hatch abuse will help if you have thieves and building destroyers all at the same time. Even if the end result is less "cavebolds with sharp rocks" and more like Tucker's kobolds.
* Cotton candy is still just as deadly in stone form as it is in metal form. Exploit this at your peril.

Misc Tips:
* Prepared food is still overpowered for trading, in the unlikely event that the caravan has something of value.
* Astoundingly, designating a tavern will attract foreigners despite all other civilizations being hostile to kobolds. Feel free to abuse this for cannon fodder, bait, or more victims.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on December 29, 2016, 11:01:24 pm
Welp. I've switched my method of working around the "can't stockpile stone ammo" thing again. This time because yet another irritating bug ensues if I use the other method. Basically...

If sharpenable metals count as metal:
* Bridges or other works of architecture can't be built using sharpenable stone.
* Bars and other masonry items can't be produced using sharpenable stone.
* Mugs, coffins, and other items made from stone use the metal item name (goblets, sarcophagi, etc).

If making stone/gem ammo cites materials that have similar properties to the origin stone, but count as metal:
* Uniform material selection and a few stockpiles give options to store items made out of materials only cited by stone/gem ammo.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on May 15, 2017, 04:22:17 pm
Whee it's been ages. I'm pondering something. Should I reduce the attack triggers for enemy civs back to closer to normal? Right now sieges take a long time to get into gear unless you embark right next to their sites.

EDIT: I discovered while double-checking shit that I ALREADY lowered the progress triggers at some point. Slow invaders is most likly just due to hardcoded fuckery.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on June 12, 2017, 06:24:42 pm
Quote
Suffocated due to a weapon trap coated with giant cave spider venom

SOON. This presents a conundrum for me though. One of the big things making this mod more difficult is not only the focus on bone, leather, and stone in place of metal, but also the lack of mechanics. Depending on how much of this impending behavior is usable fort-side, it'd be tempting to not break these impending changes.

So obvious question, when the update hits, should kobolds be given access to mechanics?
Title: Re: [44.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on November 23, 2017, 03:23:50 pm
HNNNG. Rise from your grave!

The update has hit, and with it some changes to this mod. Right now the big ones are the chance of being able to embark with worldgen-tamed venomous critters, and being re-given mechanics. Unlike in vanilla I kept access to domestic critters because this feature does NOT adequately replace the access to pack animals currently required by merchants.

Though now that you can use cage traps and socializing might be functional now, I might remove access to domestic pets and likewise disable trading. Though adding a milkable of some form might still be deisrable.

I also intend to test out whether sieges are any less painfully slow.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Altivera on January 31, 2018, 09:44:35 pm
Err will I still get visitors to my tavern, and would it be theoretically possible for me to acquire books from outside sources to start a library?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 01, 2018, 01:14:16 pm
Yeah, taverns attracting visitors is a thing it seems, since it seems the game never thought about the possibility that you might be hostile to literally every other civ. And it might be, though it's likely quite rare. If Toady ever fixes the bug that makes it impossible to steal books, that'll add one way to get a library. X3
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Altivera on February 05, 2018, 04:55:07 pm
Haven't received any guests since I started my kobold camp. Does the world's age play into this?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 05, 2018, 07:37:56 pm
It should start when you make a tavern, actually. o.o
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Altivera on February 05, 2018, 09:13:15 pm
I made a tavern which also doubled as a meeting hall. Oh and will the guests be limited by the kobold's allowed jobs since with dfhack I can't farm anything with them now since they don't have farming as a permitted job on their entity list so I don't have a source of booze and other goods made with plants.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Altivera on February 07, 2018, 04:52:36 pm
Update. It took over a year of ingame time but I finally received a human maceman who was curious about my tavern.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 08, 2018, 11:20:11 am
Quote from: Altivera on February 05, 2018, 09:13:15 pm
I made a tavern which also doubled as a meeting hall. Oh and will the guests be limited by the kobold's allowed jobs since with dfhack I can't farm anything with them now since they don't have farming as a permitted job on their entity list so I don't have a source of booze and other goods made with plants.

Bit belatedly, I don't know if visitors are limited, but remember that you can ferment milk into alcohol. Also, I could've sworn I gave kobolds the plant brewing reactions, so while you can't embark with any plants,nothing at present is stopping you from plant-gathering. XP
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Altivera on February 08, 2018, 09:00:09 pm
One of dfhack's plugins or scripts are blocking any jobs my bolds aren't permitted to do in their entity folder. And the milking of my large herd of mountain goats for fermenting purposes is inefficient. I can't keep a surplus of alcohol. Also any considerations for making the helmet snakes trainable since I kinda wan't them to accompany my militia to battle to make up for their primitive weapons and armor early on until I kill enough invaders to outfit and arm them in some metal. In the meantime I've been stuffing many of the helmet snakes into cages linked to pressure plates nearby. I'm not very concerned with the snakes dying since they have very large clutches of eggs though the not being able to tan their scales is an annoyance.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 08, 2018, 09:43:22 pm
Um. No. FFS if a raw-defined reaction isn't available to a civ, then it's not available to them at all, DFHack or no. Double-check at the still whether or not it shows you the standard brewing reactions. >_>

And hmm, it wouldn't help much since they're kinda small, but maybe.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Altivera on February 08, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
They still have the reactions for brewing plants and growing them at the farm plot. but something with dfhack means I can't enable the labor for plant gathering or planting since the kobolds don't have that as a permitted job in their entity file.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 08, 2018, 10:12:39 pm
Then that is a kinda idiotic issue with DFHack. :V
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 05:47:04 am
Quote from: Random_Dragon on May 15, 2017, 04:22:17 pm

EDIT: I discovered while double-checking shit that I ALREADY lowered the progress triggers at some point.

If you don't mind some negative feedback, I'm starting to believe that the progress triggers are too low right now. I've started two fortresses in the latest version (in admitedly tough embarks) and on both I was getting sieged by other civs before I even had 20 kobolds.
Title: Re: [44.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Warlord255 on February 18, 2018, 09:14:34 am
Quote from: Random_Dragon on November 23, 2017, 03:23:50 pm
Right now the big ones are the chance of being able to embark with worldgen-tamed venomous critters, and being re-given mechanics. Unlike in vanilla I kept access to domestic critters because this feature does NOT adequately replace the access to pack animals currently required by merchants.

Though now that you can use cage traps and socializing might be functional now, I might remove access to domestic pets and likewise disable trading. Though adding a milkable of some form might still be deisrable.

You can add multiple [ANIMAL] headers that include [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PRESENT] and get guaranteed pack animals with nothing else.

[ANIMAL_TOKEN:MULE]
      [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PACK_ANIMAL]
      [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PRESENT]

This worked to make my civ capable of trade, though they didn't bring wagons.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 18, 2018, 12:27:58 pm
Quote from: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 05:47:04 am
If you don't mind some negative feedback, I'm starting to believe that the progress triggers are too low right now. I've started two fortresses in the latest version (in admitedly tough embarks) and on both I was getting sieged by other civs before I even had 20 kobolds.

Now the sieges are working right? This has been one of the biggest fundamental issues in DF wherein invaders take forever to show up despite progress triggers being met. Hmm. This gives me a thought. Should I restore the whole "inverted thief logic" thing so that non-kobolds send "scouts" as a first method of contact, or just bump p the progress triggers?

Quote from: Warlord255 on February 18, 2018, 09:14:34 am
You can add multiple [ANIMAL] headers that include [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PRESENT] and get guaranteed pack animals with nothing else.

[ANIMAL_TOKEN:MULE]
      [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PACK_ANIMAL]
      [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PRESENT]

This worked to make my civ capable of trade, though they didn't bring wagons.

Already did that, after making mountain goats work as pack animals.
Title: Re: [43.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 01:55:56 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on February 18, 2018, 12:27:58 pm

Now the sieges are working right? This has been one of the biggest fundamental issues in DF wherein invaders take forever to show up despite progress triggers being met. Hmm. This gives me a thought. Should I restore the whole "inverted thief logic" thing so that non-kobolds send "scouts" as a first method of contact, or just bump p the progress triggers?


I would say that yes, they work. Both dwarves and humans would send sieges quite oftenly (usualy every 1-2 years). The lazy attackers thing from the 43.05 version is gone too, now they all go straight for the fortress attacking everyone on sight. To be honest though, I don't mind the early sieges, my only problem is that they send too many, too early, forcing me to rely on lockdowns.
 

I've taken a look at the entity file and, unless I'm mistaken, it seems like thief logic overides the progress triggers. Both dwarves and humans sent their forces before I could reach their respective trigger, so rising them might not change anything.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 18, 2018, 02:44:32 pm
That's odd. Thing is it seems that whether siegers can be bothered to send anyone has still, even into 43.05, been incredibly inconsistent.

Though if that's the case I'm not sure WHAT the best option is. Give them back thieves, I guess?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 04:30:39 pm
By "give them back thieves" you mean to give the tag to the other civs and not to the kobolds, correct?

I don't know what would be the best, but reading this passage from the wiki (and assuming it's correct) makes me think that giving the other civs ambusher or babysnatcher might ensure some form of early contact before sieges can trigger. I'm going to give it a try and see what happens.

Quote
Sends thieves to steal items. This will also occur in history generation, and thieves will have the "thief" profession. Items stolen in history gen will be scattered around that creature's home. Also causes that civ to be hostile to any entity without this token. Without this tag (or AMBUSHER, or BABYSNATCHER), enemy civs will only siege (if capable), and will siege as early as they would otherwise steal.

edit: And as I'm modifying the raw, I realize that giving everyone babysnatcher will make them allies

Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 18, 2018, 04:53:56 pm
Yeah. Basically I'd be restoring it back to the way it used to be, having other civs able to send thieves while removing it from kobolds. I did that in prior versions due to a trade bug that has since been fixed, which made the workaround necessary for intended behavior to function at all.

But removing it of course removes a good buffer against sieges. This is a problem IF enemies take a million years to send sieges like normal. But if the alternative is a swarm of early sieges, I might have to restore the old behavior.

What I'd like to do is see if I can rig it so that thieves will be sent reliably at an early point. That's also painfully inconsistent, as with sieges.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 06:54:00 pm
I gave each civ the [AMBUSHER] tag and so far (about a year in) i had no contact but a necromancer. Granted I have only 23 kobolds so only* the dwarves should trigger right now.

* I've noticed that the rest of the civs have higher pop triggers than dwarves and goblins have a low trade trigger for first contact. Is this intentional?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 18, 2018, 07:12:08 pm
Quote from: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 06:54:00 pm
I gave each civ the [AMBUSHER] tag and so far (about a year in) i had no contact but a necromancer. Granted I have only 23 kobolds so only* the dwarves should trigger right now.

* I've noticed that the rest of the civs have higher pop triggers than dwarves and goblins have a low trade trigger for first contact. Is this intentional?

Yeah, it's intentional that dwarves show up first, partly for flavor and partly for balance reason. Elves also have ambushers (which are a nightmare) and exotic animals (which are unpredictable), while humans are the most swole. Though the fact that dwarves have steel might be enough that I should rank them above elves, maybe?

As for that, hmm. Yeah, that's a problem I'm trying to sort out. Balancing things out so you get SOMETHING on your case at 20 kobolds, but not a horde, is a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 18, 2018, 08:10:28 pm
Just had my first (undead*) siege  1.5 years in with 30 kobolds...didn't go very well. They only had 25 undead +2 necros + 1 living human so I think with a better defense plan it would be winable. I'll have to start a new one to test how the other civs behave : (

About dwarves having steel, they usualy have 1-2 steel pieces each (if they have steel at all) so, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. I'mwondering if giving each civ all active seasons tags (like what goblins have) and the old thief logic, would help with siege/thieves frequency.


*First necro was alone, so a scout, maybe?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 19, 2018, 01:51:29 am
That's weird because normally necromancers aren't really normal civ members, I didn't know they'd inherit properties from their parent civ like that.

But yeah, been out late due to some things going on, when I get home I'll do so.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 19, 2018, 02:47:45 pm
I don't know if this was obvious to you with kobolds being carnivorous and all but I've almost starved my kobolds to death before realising* that meals containing any combination of plants, boose from plants, (helmet snake) eggs or tallow are inedible for kobolds. At this moment, I don't know for sure if meals containing these ingredients along with meat/fish/prepared intenstines etc are edible or not.

*I wasn't expecting eggs and tallow to be considered inedible.




Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 19, 2018, 06:32:58 pm
Huh. That's...how the hell. I didn't know eggs and tallow would count as inedible. Crap. Not even sure how to fix that. >.<

Since I'm fairly certain they can drink booze just fine, booze making it inedible also sounds like a bug.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 19, 2018, 11:34:44 pm
I don't think it's because of booze* , my kobolds would ignore meals made of 4 x eggs or 4 x tallow too. So, it seems like it has to do with what vanilla df recognize as meat. Anyway the whole problem can be avoided by forbiding using these ingredients in cooking and periodicaly dumping** non-brewable plants/eggs


*which is perfectly drinakble on it's own
** so they don't show up as "other food" in the (z) menu
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 20, 2018, 12:46:03 pm
That sounds like it should be reported to mantis, yeah. ._.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 20, 2018, 04:46:44 pm
I think I solved the egg/tallow mystery.

In both vanilla DF's and Kobold Kamp's material_template_default.txt,  egg yolk, egg white and tallow while having the necessary  edible tokens they  lack the [meat] token which is present in other  materials like muscle,brain.lungs etc.  So I guess it's just standard DF behavior to not recognize them as meat.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 20, 2018, 05:04:01 pm
Hmm. That might be it, I just hope that giving them the [MEAT] token won't break anything, I'll go ahead and test that.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 20, 2018, 05:26:50 pm
Okay yeah, this would not be a solution:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/166715641812746243/415633029462097921/unknown.png)

I tested making egg and tallow roasts out of them afterward, and they STILL didn't seem to be edible.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 21, 2018, 09:19:05 am
I've got some results from my siege related tests.

Quick reminder: I just gave all civs the [Ambusher] token while still using the original Kobold Kamp triggers and thief logic.

After my first fortress fell to the local necromancers ( the one I mentioned some posts ago) I started a new one, on the same world but in a  different location so I only have dwarves, elves, goblins and humans as neighbors. For the first three years (126-128) I had no contact with other civs, but from the summer of the fourth year (129)  I have been getting regularly ambushes. Still I haven't had any actuall siege yet. Current year is 134.

All ambushes had been sent from the same Dwarf civ (The Dabbling Sacks) and according to Legends Viewer they came from at least two different groups/sites.
The list of ambushes is as follows:

Summer 129 - Dwarves from The Portentous Crystal group.
Autumn  129 - Dwarves+ Goblins from The Mine of Blotting group.
Autumn  130 - Dwarves from an unknown group/site (Legends viewer showed only that they were from the same civ).
Autumn  131 - Dwarves from an unknown group/site, probably from the same site as the one from 130 ( at least one dwarf that took part in the 130 ambush was
                     also present in the 131)

Spring    132 - Dwarves of unknown civ. Ambushing forces left right after they got spotted.
Autumn  132 - Dwarves of unknown civ. Total enemy forces were at least 75 dwarves. Enemy left shortly after the first casualties. No notable (historical?)  figures died
                      during the siege, so there is no info on legend viewer to link them to a specific civ or site...

Spring    133 - Dwarves from a third group, The young Sword, same civ as before. At least 71 soldiers.
Spring    134 - Dwarves of unknown group/site. 104 total soldiers and horses. Enemies fled after contact with local wild life.


Observations:

-Both of the known Dwarven sites are relatively far away from my fortress (the same civ has at least two more sites that are closer to me) which might explain the initial calm period.  There is also one more dwarven civ that I had no contact with.

- I had no contact with elves (trigger limit have been reached), humans (trigger limit not reached yet) or goblins ( I've reached the trade trigger limit but not the pop siege trigger)

- The number of soldiers in each ambush seems to increase every year. Sadly I forgot to write down the number from the first 3 ambushes, the 131 one had 69 soldiers.

- Both of year 132's ambushes where rather uneventful, because both forces would depart almost imidiately.

Conclusions (so far) :

- The game had been easier than before, mostly due to the initial peace time during which I managed to create proper defences (traps and trained military). However I still had to rely on cheesy tactics (door locking/bait animals/cage traps).


edit: I forgot to specify, that the world is rather small (32x32) with most of the land mass located in one big island. There are 2 dwarven , 3 elven, 3 human, 2 goblin and 2 kobold civs plus 3 necromancer towers.

In terms of total civ population, the list goes as follows (original species + outcasts other species , number of sites):

Elven 1:      6264 + 51 , 13
Dwarven 1: 2989 + 351 , 27  ( <-- The Dabbling Sacks)
Dwarven 2: 2255 + 321 , 21
Human 1:   899 + 9, 9
Elven 2:     749 , 8
Goblin 1:    385 + 82 , 8
Human 2:   212 , 7
Elven 3:     186 + 23 , 4
Human 3:  175 + 2 , 4
Kobold 1:   159 + 6 , 2 ( <-- my civ )
Kobold 2:   91 + 53 , 1
Goblin 2:    5 , 1

edit 2: Added two more ambushes.

edit 3: Hooray for day off. I have also a small update on the non edible food part.  Prepared meals containing non edible ingredients along with edible ones appear to be
          edible themselves ,judging by the fact that some of my military is carring these type of meals and right now they are among the few ones who aren't hungry.
           


Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 21, 2018, 01:09:49 pm
So this time you didn't get swarmed. I'm not sre how much of that is from the ambusher tag versus sieges being inconsistent.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 21, 2018, 06:18:29 pm
I've updated my previous post to include the latest ambushes.

I think it is safe to conclude that as long as the game is willing to send enemiy forces against you, then giving the ambusher tag to enemy civs isn't going to stop them. Regarding the initial peacefull period, I'd say it was because of both the game respecting the pop triggers and luck ( it lasted for two more years after I had reahed the trigger limit of 20 kobolds). Overall this workaround, seems to be enough to achieve (my) goal of softening the startup phase of a new fortress, without making the game too easy in it's entirety.

On the other hand ambush behavior is somewhat unpredictable. Sometimes the enemy will keep sending troops over my weapon traps in hopes of reaching a lone helmet snake and other times will leave as soon as they get spotted. In addition, the constant "pause + camera move" that happens every time that an enemy squad is spotted can become annoying.

The next phase of my experiment will be to inrease the pop limit so I can activate the triggers for humans (elves should have activated when I  briefly hit 53 kobolds, but they haven't appear yet) and see how they 'll act. ThoughI don't expect any different behavior than the dwarves.

In case there is anything else that needs testing I'd be happy to help you, Kobold Kamp has been a lot of fun for me so far.

======================================================================================
Finding a use for all this vegan buffet garbage

(https://i.imgur.com/BFhDEmw.png)

Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 21, 2018, 08:09:57 pm
Nice. If so maybe see if thief behavior, as of the latest version, behaves differently? That said, this seems to further suggest that invaders are once again fucky and unpredictable...
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 22, 2018, 04:06:28 am
Ok, expect my results around the weekend though  :D
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 25, 2018, 02:11:01 pm
I've taken a look at the newest version and initial results seem promising with only one problem that might be entirely unrelated to the mod itself.

My fortress was established in 125 and I haven't had any* contact until the begining of 128 when the dwarves sent their first siege. Again the initial peace period was extremely helpful to create proper defences and train a 6 kobold squad decently. There are two reasons that might explain why that calm period lasted that long and these are 1) I was focusing so much in making the fortress self sufficient that I had few items that I could trade ( I only reached >1k exported goods after the second caravan) and 2) according to legends viewer, my civ wasn't at war with any of the other civs until 128. Now trade might not matter for triggering sieges but it might affect how wars get started.

*Not even thieves. A single baby snatcher came some time after 128.

The event log (up to 7th month of 130):

Month  Year     Event
1          128      1st Dwarven siege, 10 enemies. (<- Dwarves declare war)
10        128      2nd Dwarven siege, 40 enemies.
4          129      1st Human siege, 10 enemies.  (<- Humans declare war)
7          129      3rd Dwarven siege, 107 enemies.
7          130      1st Elven ambush, 5 enemies (<- We are not officialy at war with them yet)

About the one problem :

 Some time after the 3rd dwarven siege, I got the announcement "A vile force of darkness...." however the siege lifted as soon as I unpaused. A few moments later my kobolds discovered a single goblin snatcher (the were no other units in the unit list either). Legends viewer does record one unnotable battle between the goblins and my fort in the winter of 129 with 5 goblins taking part but that is all I could find.

General observations (mostly unrelated with the current goal of testing thief/siege behavior):

1) There is a destinct lack of mounts in the enemy forces so far. In both previous (43.05) version and my modded (Ambusher - 44.05) one, dwarves would make extensive use of horses during their sieges/ambushes but so far they haven't brought any. It might be that the sieges originated from sites with no mount pops though.

2) Dwarves tend to be dizzy when they spawn.  Cave adaptation perhaps?

3) No enemy has brought any breastplates or greaves so far. Maybe some equipment is reserved (by the ai) for only elite units. Recruits for example will usualy lack armor.

Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 25, 2018, 02:41:26 pm
Quote from: Ulfarr on February 25, 2018, 02:11:01 pm
*Not even thieves. A single baby snatcher came some time after 128.

Ah, that's part of why I really hate this bug. 3 years is probably okay for sieges, but it's way too much for thieves, too much for enemy contact at all. This bug seems extremely hard to work around.

Quote from: Ulfarr on February 25, 2018, 02:11:01 pm
Some time after the 3rd dwarven siege, I got the announcement "A vile force of darkness...." however the siege lifted as soon as I unpaused. A few moments later my kobolds discovered a single goblin snatcher (the were no other units in the unit list either). Legends viewer does record one unnotable battle between the goblins and my fort in the winter of 129 with 5 goblins taking part but that is all I could find.

Odd. Possible bugs found that match that include http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10227 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10227) and http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9236 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9236).


Quote from: Ulfarr on February 25, 2018, 02:11:01 pm
General observations (mostly unrelated with the current goal of testing thief/siege behavior):

1) There is a destinct lack of mounts in the enemy forces so far. In both previous (43.05) version and my modded (Ambusher - 44.05) one, dwarves would make extensive use of horses during their sieges/ambushes but so far they haven't brought any. It might be that the sieges originated from sites with no mount pops though.

2) Dwarves tend to be dizzy when they spawn.  Cave adaptation perhaps?

3) No enemy has brought any breastplates or greaves so far. Maybe some equipment is reserved (by the ai) for only elite units. Recruits for example will usualy lack armor.

1. Strange. I'm not sure what might cause that. In the old days there was the general expectation that later sieges would use more cavalry and war animals than early, but I'd assume this behavior no longer applies. In which case I'm at a loss for what caused that.

2. If there's no accompanying nausea than it's most likely the lower-level cave adaptation, yeah. First time I've seen invading dwarves afflicted by it. Hell, usually I never see it in tavern visitors either.

3. One thing I might be able to do. Armor level evidently determines how readily the AI will outfit soldiers with a given item. Bandits for example will rarely get anything beyond level 1. Greaves and breastplates are the only items to have armor level 3, which supports this. Lowering armor levels should in theory make invaders show up with armor more often, and earlier.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 26, 2018, 05:15:42 am
Quick update:

1) The whole siege-lift-immediately thing hasn't happened again so far. Goblins have sent another siege which worked properly (they also had trolls and beak dogs with them).

2) Dwarves came* once again and they had mounts this time (horses and camels). I believe the mount situation has only to do with whether the site that sends the siege has mount populations or not.

*Most disappointing siege ever! 209 total enemies (soldiers+mounts) and they left after losing 3 recruits.

3) I checked the dizzy dwarves again and they also have nausea.

4) As far as enemy equipment is concerned only breastplates and greaves are missing. Non recruit units will pretty much always have cap/helm, mail shit, leather armor (sometimes), leggings, low/high boots and gauntlets.

Overall there is no shortage of things to kill or gear to salvage.

About thief logic. Have you tried giving trade triggers for dwarven sieges while keeping the general pop trigger low? Maybe that way they'll send thieves after the first one (or two ) migrant wave(s) and sieges after you have had a caravan or two depending on how you play.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 26, 2018, 01:00:37 pm
Quote from: Ulfarr on February 26, 2018, 05:15:42 am
About thief logic. Have you tried giving trade triggers for dwarven sieges while keeping the general pop trigger low? Maybe that way they'll send thieves after the first one (or two ) migrant wave(s) and sieges after you have had a caravan or two depending on how you play.

Not sure how well that'd work, but I have given goblins a trade contact trigger instead of population so they arrive under different conditions.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 27, 2018, 05:00:54 am
Well they did sent a snatcher...  I 'm afraid that, at least for the dwarves, the siege trigger is low enough to go directly to sieges, bypassing sending thieves altogether.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 27, 2018, 02:11:15 pm
Quote from: Ulfarr on February 27, 2018, 05:00:54 am
Well they did sent a snatcher...  I 'm afraid that, at least for the dwarves, the siege trigger is low enough to go directly to sieges, bypassing sending thieves altogether.

Though that's exacerbated by the fact it seems thieves either are as slow to get sent as sieges, or possibly you don't get the contact indicator until they're discovered.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 5] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 06, 2018, 03:43:30 pm
Well, it took a smol while but I did the thing with lowering the armorlevel of breastplates and greaves. As for why it took so long?

Kobold Kamp, now with with 100% less wooden-pick-related bugs. Native copper and native silver can now be seen in use for picks, weapons, and ammo, in addition to wooden weapons and ammo. This lets you not only embark with them but also see them in caravans.

One issue I noticed with this initially was the fact that embark and caravan included otherwise unusable bars of worked native copper and silver. So I decided to roll with it, via having these native metal weapons make use of bars instead of the stone directly, whereas other uses for native metals still work just as with other stone crafts.

This also supports another addition: the option to simply break down looted metal weapons and armor. While this is useful for oversized enemy weapons, since armorsmithing is still too complex for kobolds it's generally better to refit metal armor than to break it down, but it still gives a use for metal armor that the player doesn't want to try and convert and incorporate into their uniform.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: philli46 on March 18, 2018, 02:19:30 am
Just food for thought, but could the lack of contact/thieves/ambushes/sieges be due to the fact that kobold sites are hidden and don't appear on the map? Don't know much about it, but the in fort I'm playing now the humans and goblins don't seem to know about my existence yet. I got spring caravans from the elves but I think that's due to another edit I've made somewhere else, not sure if its part of the mod as I was under the impression that all other civs would be hostile... (no matter, slaughter enough merchants and they'll attack like everyone else. I think maybe they got upset when I stole their giant skunk.)

Started in year 5, around the end of year 7 the elves ambushed. (They got poor Gaykus, my legendary miner. Took all 6 of them to get past his masterful pick-axe skills, he died a hero's death. Held them at the surface long enough for my military to get organized and engage, saved many lives...) Anywho, haven't heard from the elves since, I think the goblins are giving them a hard time. Scouts sent to investigate are finding a lot of abandoned sites. Good chance they're gonna die out.

One odd thing I've noticed is that none of the kobold caravans that come have any goods with them. They still accept offerings though so i can keep raising my exported wealth. (this may be something I've done wrong while integrating the mod with my raws. Just wondering if anyone knew how to fix this.)

I'm going to try and raid a smaller goblin pit nearby, see if I can't alert them to my presence. I'll let you know how that works!

Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: philli46 on March 18, 2018, 03:51:56 am
Aaand update: giant, fire breathing, winged worms are really bad for the development of a fortress... it was a massacre, there were no survivors. Probably one of the best forts I've played though, lots of fun! Sad though because I had to watch the Shaman, his wife, and his 7 or 8 children get ripped apart in the meeting hall. 2 of his sons were in the military, and his eldest daughter worked beside him as a healer. His wife liked to wander the caves collecting webs to make silk. I got really attached to that family. I'm sad they're gone...

Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on March 18, 2018, 05:52:25 am
Quote from: philli46 on March 18, 2018, 02:19:30 am
Just food for thought, but could the lack of contact/thieves/ambushes/sieges be due to the fact that kobold sites are hidden and don't appear on the map?

Maybe, personaly I haven't noticed any difference by revealing caves through advanced world gen, but that might just not affect other non-player civs.

 I also think it has to do with Toady changing something in the latest versions ( ie raids system), that delays war declarations in world gen. Maybe because kobolds don't produce artifacts, other civs don't bother that much with them during world gen. In my last couple of fortresses (versions 44.05 - 44.07), my kobolds always start at peace with pretty much everyone (according to the "c" screen) and stay like that untill some of the progress triggers activate causing other civs to declare war on me (I haven't test starting wars on my own through raids yet).
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 18, 2018, 11:50:05 am
Quote from: philli46 on March 18, 2018, 02:19:30 am
Just food for thought, but could the lack of contact/thieves/ambushes/sieges be due to the fact that kobold sites are hidden and don't appear on the map? Don't know much about it, but the in fort I'm playing now the humans and goblins don't seem to know about my existence yet. I got spring caravans from the elves but I think that's due to another edit I've made somewhere else, not sure if its part of the mod as I was under the impression that all other civs would be hostile... (no matter, slaughter enough merchants and they'll attack like everyone else. I think maybe they got upset when I stole their giant skunk.)

Started in year 5, around the end of year 7 the elves ambushed. (They got poor Gaykus, my legendary miner. Took all 6 of them to get past his masterful pick-axe skills, he died a hero's death. Held them at the surface long enough for my military to get organized and engage, saved many lives...) Anywho, haven't heard from the elves since, I think the goblins are giving them a hard time. Scouts sent to investigate are finding a lot of abandoned sites. Good chance they're gonna die out.

One odd thing I've noticed is that none of the kobold caravans that come have any goods with them. They still accept offerings though so i can keep raising my exported wealth. (this may be something I've done wrong while integrating the mod with my raws. Just wondering if anyone knew how to fix this.)

I'm going to try and raid a smaller goblin pit nearby, see if I can't alert them to my presence. I'll let you know how that works!

1. In my latest test run of Kobold Kamp, I did indeed get elven ambushes starting in the fort's second year. Which by DF2012 standards seems acceptable. The lack of thieves is irritating though. I doubt it's because of cave site type though. Highly-unpredictable invader responses are a well-known issue in current DF.

2. ...friendly elves? Kobolds not bringing any goods? Yes, something is absolutely broken there. Did you remember to port of the changes that make mountain goats viable as pack animals? Be default those are the only animals they're guaranteed to have, and the only other pack animal they MIGHT obtain in worldgen would be yaks.

Quote from: Ulfarr on March 18, 2018, 05:52:25 am
I also think it has to do with Toady changing something in the latest versions ( ie raids system), that delays war declarations in world gen. Maybe because kobolds don't produce artifacts, other civs don't bother that much with them during world gen. In my last couple of fortresses (versions 44.05 - 44.07), my kobolds always start at peace with pretty much everyone (according to the "c" screen) and stay like that untill some of the progress triggers activate causing other civs to declare war on me (I haven't test starting wars on my own through raids yet).

ITEM_THIEF and BABYSNATCHER logic causes a civ to act with hostility to civs that lack the token (and vice-versa if a thieving/snatching civ is playable), even when a state of war is declared. You can see this in vanilla, if you get contact with goblins without provoking them via raids, and they haven't declared war in worldgen (a crapshoot because goblins tend to be the ones declaring wars most often) you'll see them listed as at peace with you, even as they send sieges after you.

That's a thing that's been around since at least the DF2012 days.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: philli46 on March 18, 2018, 12:46:09 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on March 18, 2018, 11:50:05 am
Did you remember to port of the changes that make mountain goats viable as pack animals? Be default those are the only animals they're guaranteed to have, and the only other pack animal they MIGHT obtain in worldgen would be yaks.

Figured it out, I forgot to add the PACK_ANIMAL tag to mountain goats. It was my bad. I think it should be fixed though. Thanks for your help!

Still looking into why the elves are friendly. I honestly don't mind it, gives me some more trading options in the early game. Still want to know what causes it though!

Are there any other creature raws you've edited that I might've missed? I have to go in and make the changes manually because my raws are already heavily modified with balance tweaks and snippets of other mods.

Edit: Also forgot to give them a TRADE_CAPACITY value, and didn't make them milk-able. Just for kicks I gave them wool instead of hair, should hopefully give me a reliable source of cloth that doesn't involve cave exploration and giant fiery worms...
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on March 18, 2018, 01:52:02 pm
Quote from: philli46 on March 18, 2018, 12:46:09 pm
Are there any other creature raws you've edited that I might've missed? I have to go in and make the changes manually because my raws are already heavily modified with balance tweaks and snippets of other mods.

Yeah, milking, brewing/cheesemaking from the milk, and getting usable wool were all added to mountain goats if I recall.

Some other creatures from mountainous biomes were also given animal-class tokens to allow kobolds to potentially pick them up during worldgen, and other instances of animals that've been historically used for fabric but aren't in vanilla had that added to them.

However, for the majority of creatures the only change is telling the game to remove the "fake yarn" material from hairless creatures, as that's part of letting you spin haircloth from otherwise unusable critters. Without the hair itself to be turned into that yarn, the lack of these tokens shouldn't affect gameplay, just that you'll see inaccessible shit like "giant worm hair/yarn/what-have-you" in stockpile entries, and probably available in arena mode material selection.

I'd like the find a more viable way that doesn't either:
1. Prevent you from stockpiling haircloth.
or
2. Enable civs to show up with cat hair clothes and other absurd shit.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 7] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: philli46 on March 21, 2018, 12:04:57 am
So I enabled kobolds to be playable in adventure mode. During a test run starting at a fort I had played earlier I noticed all of the tame giant cave spiders were hostile. Killed all the civilians then ripped apart my poor kobold. No problems in fort mode, I'm assuming its just something to do with the game and not the mod. Just thought you'd want to know, in case adding adventuring kobolds is something you have planned for this mod.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 01:17:51 am
Growing a little confused hear bouts. Tried several times to start a game, (craving kobolds since Masterwork is so far behind at current), but when I go to select a civ on the World map, it only shows me the dwarven civs, and none of the (usually singular) kobold civs. Did I happen to do something wrong? I cut the Raws out, and inserted the Kobold Kamp Raws. Is it cause I am using the Lazy Newb Pack? Something else?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 02:03:16 am
Quote from: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 01:17:51 am
Growing a little confused hear bouts. Tried several times to start a game, (craving kobolds since Masterwork is so far behind at current), but when I go to select a civ on the World map, it only shows me the dwarven civs, and none of the (usually singular) kobold civs. Did I happen to do something wrong? I cut the Raws out, and inserted the Kobold Kamp Raws. Is it cause I am using the Lazy Newb Pack? Something else?

It could be something due to LMP stuff, maybe. Combining raw stuff is always a finicky affair unless you're familiar with what all both raws change, and I'll admit I'm not sure what all LNP would alter.

If you inserted kobold raws INTO the LNP raws then it shouldn't be having that exact issue, unless LNP retains at least one playable entity entry in a file that isn't entity_default.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on April 13, 2018, 02:52:33 am
Check if you have the kobold kamp entity_default.txt instead of the LNP's one in your raws. You might also need to gen a new world.  I have always used Kobold Kamp with LNP and had no such issues.

edit: Did you change tileset through LNP's launcher, after merging the two mods? Iirc it replaces the raws, so that might be the case.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 11:10:46 am
Ahhh! That may well have been what it was. Never even thought of that. So is there any way to use the graphics I want, and have the mod running? Do I just need to replace the raws after the graphics switch?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 11:14:44 am
Quote from: Ulfarr on April 13, 2018, 02:52:33 am
edit: Did you change tileset through LNP's launcher, after merging the two mods? Iirc it replaces the raws, so that might be the case.

Gah. Why do people even use that feature, that's insane. >.<
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 11:49:58 am
As an aside, I was hoping to pull out one of the buildings from Meph's kobolds, and use it in your mod. One of my favourite things, was the Kobold use of milked Venoms from creatures to apply to weapons, Ammo, and Trap Components. Is it feasible to add something like that in, or does anyone know of a mod that could do something similar?
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 12:48:17 pm
Quote from: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 11:49:58 am
As an aside, I was hoping to pull out one of the buildings from Meph's kobolds, and use it in your mod. One of my favourite things, was the Kobold use of milked Venoms from creatures to apply to weapons, Ammo, and Trap Components. Is it feasible to add something like that in, or does anyone know of a mod that could do something similar?

That does not work, and has never worked. To repeat a lesson I learned the hard way when working on Adventurecraft: yoinking the "decorate item with frozen extract" reaction from Wanderer's Friend does not allow you to poison enemies. The reaction file even outright says it doesn't work in a comment, but the WF mod author never removed the reaction because they hoped a solution might be forthcoming. It has plagued modders ever since.

Meph basically took that recipe, applied it to yet more reactions that don't do anything, and then neglected to leave even a code comment clarifying it's broken.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 01:52:01 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 12:48:17 pm
Quote from: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 11:49:58 am
As an aside, I was hoping to pull out one of the buildings from Meph's kobolds, and use it in your mod. One of my favourite things, was the Kobold use of milked Venoms from creatures to apply to weapons, Ammo, and Trap Components. Is it feasible to add something like that in, or does anyone know of a mod that could do something similar?

That does not work, and has never worked. To repeat a lesson I learned the hard way when working on Adventurecraft: yoinking the "decorate item with frozen extract" reaction from Wanderer's Friend does not allow you to poison enemies. The reaction file even outright says it doesn't work in a comment, but the WF mod author never removed the reaction because they hoped a solution might be forthcoming. It has plagued modders ever since.

Meph basically took that recipe, applied it to yet more reactions that don't do anything, and then neglected to leave even a code comment clarifying it's broken.

Really? I thought it would be a fairly simple thing, as the Poison Vat Building for Meph's Masterwork pack, even says at the beginning that its:

#Notes: A- the poison vat is a plug and play addition to nearly all races,
# that provides the ability to apply poisons to weapons, ammo, etc.

I'm more looking for a building to poison stuff in Fort mode, and not in Adventure Mode.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 02:22:38 pm
It doesn't function in either mode. Decoration is just that, decoration.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 02:37:40 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 02:22:38 pm
It doesn't function in either mode. Decoration is just that, decoration.

I feel there is some confusion going on here...Decoration? I mean, I KNOW in Masterwork there is a building, that is built, that allows one to Apply Extracts to weapons, and Ammunition, this applying the extract effect on hit. Masterwork Kobolds had a whole process of Milking Helmet Snakes, and then applying the venom extract to weapons, ammo, and trap components, and on hit, the venom would take effect.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 13, 2018, 03:06:53 pm
They don't take effect is the thing. The reaction "works" by applying the venom as a decoration, reaction token "improvement" basically, using the generic "covered" subtype. This makes the item decorated with a covering of the relevant material, in solid form in the case of items capable of melting, and this decoration material will STAY solid even if it should logically melt.

And yes, there is a building that does this in Masterwork, and you can certainly try it, but it doesn't get any useful results.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: ZM5 on April 13, 2018, 03:13:22 pm
By decoration it means something in the vein of spikes or rings you see on weapons or armor, only made out of the poison material, as what Random_Dragon said.

Sure, you get the item "covered" in it, technically, however it just plain doesn't work when it comes to triggering syndromes in combat when it counts as a solid "decoration". In order for it to actually trigger syndromes you'd need to somehow dump a weapon into a spatter of poison or venom, which is really finicky to actually pull off, and obviously not something we can really do with reactions.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on April 13, 2018, 03:31:30 pm
Quote from: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 11:10:46 am
So is there any way to use the graphics I want, and have the mod running? Do I just need to replace the raws after the graphics switch?

Changing tilesets before merging the mods would be the first step. Now depending on which tileset you want to use, there is a possibility that some objects will be displayed with the wrong tile, i.e. gems using the tiles for fish, stone walls missing their "texture", but at least the game should be playable at this stage.

If that's the case then you'll have to modify Kobold Kamp's raws to use the same tiles as their LNP counterparts. A tool to compare text files would be immensly helpful ( I used Notepad++ and it's compare plugin when making the fix for Phoebus's) but it would still be time consuming.

Which tileset do you want to use? I could try to make a fix for you but it probably won't be ready before Wednesday
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 05:02:42 pm
Quote from: Ulfarr on April 13, 2018, 03:31:30 pm
Quote from: chaosfiend on April 13, 2018, 11:10:46 am
So is there any way to use the graphics I want, and have the mod running? Do I just need to replace the raws after the graphics switch?

Changing tilesets before merging the mods would be the first step. Now depending on which tileset you want to use, there is a possibility that some objects will be displayed with the wrong tile, i.e. gems using the tiles for fish, stone walls missing their "texture", but at least the game should be playable at this stage.

If that's the case then you'll have to modify Kobold Kamp's raws to use the same tiles as their LNP counterparts. A tool to compare text files would be immensly helpful ( I used Notepad++ and it's compare plugin when making the fix for Phoebus's) but it would still be time consuming.

Which tileset do you want to use? I could try to make a fix for you but it probably won't be ready before Wednesday

Looking to use Meph's Tileset if possible.
Title: Re: [.44.01 - 9] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Nahere on April 14, 2018, 02:18:33 am
I think Masterwork uses dfhack's add-splatter script to change improvements to actual contaminant splatters, but in any case poisoning weapons without dfhack is difficult, to say the least.
Title: Re: [.44.10 - .44.12] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: JakeParade on August 06, 2018, 08:16:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Uh...I don't think that's supposed to happen. That's a Human hamlet that's economically linked to me now, and I've barely got this Kave up and running. Forgive me if somebody has already posted something relating to this.
Title: Re: [.44.10 - .44.12] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on August 07, 2018, 12:38:12 pm
Quote from: JakeParade on August 06, 2018, 08:16:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Uh...I don't think that's supposed to happen. That's a Human hamlet that's economically linked to me now, and I've barely got this Kave up and running. Forgive me if somebody has already posted something relating to this.

How in the...a human hamlet. Not a dwarf hillocks?

Fuck, I don't even know where to BEGIN with what's causing this.
Title: Re: [.44.10 - .44.12] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: ZM5 on August 07, 2018, 01:07:54 pm
That's been happening even in vanilla, so it's not even something modders can affect.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on January 30, 2020, 04:11:04 pm
And it's been a damn long while, but here we go. A basic update for Kobold Kamp, for the new version.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Taras on January 30, 2020, 04:15:22 pm
I really like this mod. Can you make mods about other primitive races? Gnomes, trolls, ogres, harpies, satyrs, cave animalmen as example.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Taras on January 30, 2020, 04:27:33 pm
Could I suggest some small but interesting features? Kobolds may have cigars and 'smoke' it like in mayan civ. As many types of knifes they may have 'shiv' tool made from knapped rock or glass or bone.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on January 30, 2020, 04:40:41 pm
I've pondered other fortress mods before, but it's rather harder to make them feel unique, especially once I've already tackled the stone-age idea for this mod. @.@

As for tobacco, I don't really see much benefit to adding that, not like ingested syndromes can give off smoke, nor add addiction mechanics...as for knives, maybe. I'd likely stick to the standard daggers that vanilla bolds favor though, just if I recall last time there was no easy way to encourage civilians to use them freely, which is something that'd be interesting to do.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Taras on January 30, 2020, 04:51:15 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on January 30, 2020, 04:40:41 pm
I've pondered other fortress mods before, but it's rather harder to make them feel unique, especially once I've already tackled the stone-age idea for this mod. @.@

As for tobacco, I don't really see much benefit to adding that, not like ingested syndromes can give off smoke, nor add addiction mechanics...as for knives, maybe. I'd likely stick to the standard daggers that vanilla bolds favor though, just if I recall last time there was no easy way to encourage civilians to use them freely, which is something that'd be interesting to do.
You can use not tobacco but quarry bush leaves or other plants. This will make plants more useful, like kefir made milk more useful.

It's honor, if my idea will be in your mod. I also suggest two special kobold weapons. It is primitive axe and primitive pickaxe (you can change names, if you want). Primitive axe has size and attacks from adventurer stone axe and is used by kobolds as battle axe. Primitive pickaxe may be made of antlers or bone. So you not need to change vanilla pick and axe.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Nahere on January 30, 2020, 07:06:55 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on January 30, 2020, 04:40:41 pm
if I recall last time there was no easy way to encourage civilians to use them freely, which is something that'd be interesting to do.
I don't think there's anything you can do in fort mode, but in adventure mode citizens will carry around tools that have TOOL_USE:MEAT_CARVING etc., which is why humans carry all those knives.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on January 30, 2020, 10:07:34 pm
Yep, bit unfortunate it's only really doable with certain tools. As for special variants of picks and axes, after already putting effort into making them usable by kobolds, not sure... :/
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: cyberwarrior on January 31, 2020, 02:04:45 am
With the new RAW capabilities, are you planning on making any changes/experimenting with the mod?

For instance, there are raw-specified interactions that allow for summoning of items and units. Perhaps adding in a shamanistic magic system is a possibility? Or a workaround for the egg-laying bug, where you take the egg and use it in a reaction to 'summon' child kobolds. You could also add in your own set of workshops that make 'fake' eggs for it in warrens.

It also implemented a healing syndrome, so perhaps a primitive alchemy for creating healing poltices is possible now?
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Taras on January 31, 2020, 06:05:18 am
Quote from: cyberwarrior on January 31, 2020, 02:04:45 am
With the new RAW capabilities, are you planning on making any changes/experimenting with the mod?

For instance, there are raw-specified interactions that allow for summoning of items and units. Perhaps adding in a shamanistic magic system is a possibility? Or a workaround for the egg-laying bug, where you take the egg and use it in a reaction to 'summon' child kobolds. You could also add in your own set of workshops that make 'fake' eggs for it in warrens.

It also implemented a healing syndrome, so perhaps a primitive alchemy for creating healing poltices is possible now?
I double the idea of eggs incubation.
Quote from: Random_Dragon on January 30, 2020, 10:07:34 pm
Yep, bit unfortunate it's only really doable with certain tools. As for special variants of picks and axes, after already putting effort into making them usable by kobolds, not sure... :/
This will be more realistic, if small kobolds will use small picks and axes.

And one question: smoking leaves will be better as smoking cigares or smoking workshop that will make smoke?
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on January 31, 2020, 11:34:57 am
That could...sorta work. Others have noted that it's real damn hard to control what comes out of a summon, because it's randomized and there are very limited ways to narrow it down. Tying it it a workshop is also something I dunno is doable yet, let alone letting "consume X item" be the trigger. :/
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Taras on February 05, 2020, 01:22:22 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on January 31, 2020, 11:34:57 am
That could...sorta work. Others have noted that it's real damn hard to control what comes out of a summon, because it's randomized and there are very limited ways to narrow it down. Tying it it a workshop is also something I dunno is doable yet, let alone letting "consume X item" be the trigger. :/
You can summon direct specie of creatures or even direct caste of creatures, wiki has code. For spawning from workshop you can try add reaction with gas or liquid product that have contact syndrome, when kobold have this syndrome, he/she spawn kobold hatchling.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 08, 2020, 03:12:07 am
Bweh, didn't even have the chance to add any features yet. 47.02 has a new entity token 47.01 would error on, meaning I get to set up a new version of the mod without having any useful changes to show for it. ._.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: cyberwarrior on February 14, 2020, 09:21:20 am
Hey, one of the changes that I frequently make to this mod is to lower the lifespans of the kobolds. I thought it felt the theme of high breeding rate but also high deathcount. I usually make its upper range to be 20 or 30 years. I felt that it improves some of the flavor and gameplay for the mod.

The reason why I am saying so, is that it is a very easy change, and perhaps you had not considered it yourself. I love this mod; keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 14, 2020, 01:25:52 pm
I'd considered it, and didn't make use of it because there's no way to ensure the high birthrate can adequately compensate. You can mess with litter size, but birthrate is still hindered by the fact that they need to mingle around long enough to develop attachments and marry, and the only way to make marriage optional is to make them count as pets. Needless to say, that's not a good idea when you're playing them, as last time I tried that they didn't count as citizens I could control. :/
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: justaguy3 on February 14, 2020, 07:15:11 pm
Hi, I'd like to try this mod out, but I usually play with the All Races Playable mod. Would you know the best way to include both of these in one DF folder?
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 15, 2020, 03:38:42 am
1) Iirc Random Dragon uses the suffix -bold (or some variation of it) to denote the unique files added by Kobold Kamp. These file can just be copied over.

2) Any other file (those that have the same name with some other mod) will have to be merged. In essence you merge said files by adding the changes from one file to the other. I'm not sure if there are any specific tools for that but any text editor can be used. Notepad++ is decent (free) editor and also has a 3rd party plugin that allows you to compare two files and highlights any difference between them.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: dehimos on February 16, 2020, 04:28:53 am
A stupid question, does therapist detect the squads?

Therapist does not detect kobolds squads, only "on duty" soldiers.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Ulfarr on February 16, 2020, 06:50:30 am
Try renaiming the squad(s) through DF's military menu. DT should be able to detect them then.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: dehimos on February 16, 2020, 07:04:39 am
Oh, this works. Thanks.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: cyberwarrior on February 16, 2020, 08:04:23 am
Quote from: Random_Dragon on February 14, 2020, 01:25:52 pm
I'd considered it, and didn't make use of it because there's no way to ensure the high birthrate can adequately compensate. You can mess with litter size, but birthrate is still hindered by the fact that they need to mingle around long enough to develop attachments and marry, and the only way to make marriage optional is to make them count as pets. Needless to say, that's not a good idea when you're playing them, as last time I tried that they didn't count as citizens I could control. :/

From my experience the birthrate seems fine. You do have to allow them free time for attachments, but I consider that a plus not a hindrance.

I've also tried my hand at making them more like kobolds from DnD; I gave them scales and snouts rather than noses. I also considered having the females larger and stronger than the males, but that would probably be messy for making armor/clothing. I also experimented with giving them a mane of feathers, dull colors for the males, bright colors for the females.
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 16, 2020, 11:35:49 am
Hmm. Yeah, my forts usually turn out fairly busy for most of it, so I'll have to see how well that works for birthrates in a more well-managed fort. Even then, migrants should make such a change passable, I kinda doubt that even that much of a max axe reduction will impact the fort too strongly, seems more like a flavor change to me.

And that's now the second person who likes to tinker with making them look different. First meme furry cutebolds, now proper reptilian, hmm...
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: cyberwarrior on February 17, 2020, 02:13:06 pm
To be fair, vanilla kobolds are rather bland when it comes to their description. Hardly any flavor text
Title: Re: [.47.02] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on February 17, 2020, 05:18:56 pm
True. Main thing I did was add more variety to the color descriptors if I recall.
Title: Re: [.47.01] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 07, 2020, 05:18:14 am
Quote from: Taras on February 05, 2020, 01:22:22 pm
Quote from: Random_Dragon on January 31, 2020, 11:34:57 am
That could...sorta work. Others have noted that it's real damn hard to control what comes out of a summon, because it's randomized and there are very limited ways to narrow it down. Tying it it a workshop is also something I dunno is doable yet, let alone letting "consume X item" be the trigger. :/
You can summon direct specie of creatures or even direct caste of creatures, wiki has code. For spawning from workshop you can try add reaction with gas or liquid product that have contact syndrome, when kobold have this syndrome, he/she spawn kobold hatchling.
Just remove labors from female kobold - and she will hatch eggs properly (lock her in burrow with food and drinks for better). Tested in 0.47.
Title: Re: [.47.02 - .47.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: jecowa on April 03, 2021, 10:30:35 pm
What kind of tools do Kobolds use? What would a Salvage Workshop look like?

Also, what's the deal with the FAKEDYARN?
Title: Re: [.47.02 - .47.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: Random_Dragon on April 04, 2021, 12:42:15 pm
Quote from: jecowa on April 03, 2021, 10:30:35 pm
What kind of tools do Kobolds use? What would a Salvage Workshop look like?

Also, what's the deal with the FAKEDYARN?

1. Most of the basic essentials for anything except furnace-related labors, pickaxe and battleaxe had been altered to work for kobolds.
2. Like any other workshop, though if I recall I based the actual tile selection off a mixture of a clothier's shop and a leatherworks.
3. Part of the stuff that went into making it so haircloth can be spun and used instead of uselessly cluttering up the butcher's stockpile if I recall. I could've sworn I removed the fake yarn method after I discovered that haircloth won't show up on regular population's clothing unless the base creature is also shearable, I'll need to double check.
Title: Re: [.47.02 - .47.05] Kobold Kamp (now with 25% more kefir)
Post by: jecowa on April 05, 2021, 02:29:08 am
Someone on the reddit questions thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/mi8lbd/biweekly_df_questions_thread/) was asking about using Kobold Kamp with Meph graphics.

download link ==>> Kobold Kamp for Meph tileset v0.47.05 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/wrvmx8p56jv2n2m/Kobold_Kamp_for_Meph_%2528lite%2529_for_DF_v0.47.05.zip/file) <<== you passed it

(https://i.imgur.com/Po6cDVE.png)
Here's a Salvage Workshop in the middle of being constructed.