Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: TigerHunter on May 04, 2012, 09:24:52 pm
-
I embarked on a waterfall map. The place I wanted to build my entrance was on the other side of the river, so I took the reasonable precaution of designating a restricted traffic zone on and around the top of the waterfall, felling a few trees, and proceeding to build a bridge.
My mason went right over the top of the waterfall. For some reason, after grabbing the first batch of logs, he decided it would be better to walk through the restricted traffic zone and build the bridge from the other side.
I immediately abandoned. Maps with waterfalls and canyons are some of the most interesting, but they're currently unplayable. PLEASE fix this as soon as possible.
-
Build a bridge.
It's not as easy as you seem to think it is; waterfalls are just places that water periodically flows through. You know what? Lots of forts have places like that. I can easily see a bug from trying to fix this bug where dwarves would refuse to go through their own entrance due to the flooding chamber there. Besides, even noting that water flows through here often would require checks every time water touches something, lowering FPS, and it'd take time out of Toady's schedule. Like many things, it should be fixed eventually, but there's more important stuff to do--especially since the "workaround" (building a bridge) is simple and intuitive.
-
I think the problem is that dwarfs chose the fastest rout and ignore the fact that a zone is restricted.
-
First block passage across the fall to prevent crossings. THEN build the bridge.
-
Build a bridge.
Read my post.
I was building a bridge. My mason took a tumble on the way to construct it.
-
Read my post.
I was building a bridge. My mason took a tumble on the way to construct it.
You did it wrong then. I would try designating suspended walls on the opposite side of where you want your dwarves to build. Though I have not played in a while that is the first thing that comes to mind.
-
Build a bridge.
Read my post.
I was building a bridge. My mason took a tumble on the way to construct it.
Why would the mason need to cross the river to build the bridge in the first place? Make sure all of the materials are on the same side of the river as your mason.
-
I think it has more to do with the tendancy for dwarves to build on the top and left of a structure. But designating a wall to be built and the suspending it will make the dwarf use whatever space is clear to build the bridge. And yes use materials that will not require your dwarfs to cross the river.
-
Ah...My bad.
-
Will a dwarf build from a suspended construction tile if it is the only access to the construction?
It may be important to leave the last tile of bridge undesignated until the rest of the bridge is built so that there is a safe place to stand.
-
Yes.
Depends on if a bunch of floor tiles or an actual bridge is being constructed. I'm not sure which it is here.
-
Well, workarounds exist. Yay.
But they are workarounds for incredibly suicidal AI combined with dangerous terrain. We should be talking fixes.
No river ramps within 5-7 tiles of waterfall sound like great fix.
Ability to set "do not EVER EVER EVER enter" zone that would be removed from pathing would be also fair solution.
-
The first part seems sensible but...I dunno, unrealistic?
The second makes more sense, but I think it would lead to problems like how pets bump their heads againts pet-impassable doors and stuff.
-
Ability to set "do not EVER EVER EVER enter" zone
Like an anti-burrow option, it seems. An area Dwarves are not to ever go under any circumstances. Path-finding wise it is a wall.
I can think of many uses for this:
- Directing mining/building operations
- Protecting dwarves from wandering into caverns
- Making industrial accidents less likely
- Making trap rooms safer
- etc
A very simple idea which could be used in many different ways.
Fundimentally, the "waterfall bug" isn't really a waterfall bug at all, but a generic problem that Dwarves have with building things which are near to dangerous terrains. Or really, building anything at all. They will wall themselves in, teleport themselves on top of walls, and hop into deep treacherous waters to get to the square they think they must build on. Ever tried to disassemble a floor that's constructed over a pit? They can actually take the tile right out from beneath their feet.
A Forbidden Zone option would allow a smart player to overcome that easilly.
-
Use a 3rd party utility to remove the ramps.
-
Sure there's many ways to get around this by, basically, hacking the game.
But that's not the thing. Shouldn't the game be more playable out-of-the-box so to speak? Rather than requiring us to download hacking utilities to not make dwarves jump off a waterfall?
-
Sure there's many ways to get around this by, basically, hacking the game.
But that's not the thing. Shouldn't the game be more playable out-of-the-box so to speak? Rather than requiring us to download hacking utilities to not make dwarves jump off a waterfall?
It definitelly should be playable out of the box.
DFHack and Therapist and other tools should not be used as answer to bugfixes/feature requests. They can be used to remedy situation temporarily, but game should not devolve to state where you wait for tools updated for new version before you can play it.
I suppose ability to remove ramp from above would be fair suggestion as far as ramp-removing is concerned.
-
No river ramps within 5-7 tiles of waterfall sound like great fix.
This is the only decent idea for a fix.
Read my post.
I was building a bridge. My mason took a tumble on the way to construct it.
You did it wrong then.
Sadly, you doing it wrong just means you weren't careful enough about employing a work-around for something that should be automatic. So while it can be argued that this isn't a huge problem (because it can be worked-around), its still a problem.
-
Since when is building a bridge a workaround? I merely misunderstood the situation and thought that the mason had to cross the river to build the bridge.
-
building a bridge is a workaround because dwarves should know that the area of 1/7 and 2/7 next to the waterfall edge is dangerous terrain. Currently, it is pathable, which means dwarves can be assigned jobs that involve traveling to the other side of the river, resulting in death. The player must take certain actions in order to prevent dwarves pathing through those dangerous tiles. If you accept that those tiles should not be pathable or accessible by default, then any action the player takes is then a workaround for a broken feature.
as for building the bridge correctly, you need to floor off the accessible ramps near the edge first, or use suspended wall constructions to prevent masons from wanting to stand on the other side of the river to construct the bridge, since that will force them to path through the waterfall edge, only once the safe path is constructed will traffic restrictions have any effect.
-
Did you only set Restricted OVER the water, or also IN the water?
-
Did you only set Restricted OVER the water, or also IN the water?
as has been said a million times, traffic designations have no impact on what job a dwarf takes or where he decides to stand to do that job. If the bridge was incomplete, they will take the only path there (through the water) to do their job, and ignore traffic restrictions.
-
I always build a bridge over the river, even if there isn't a waterfall. Or else, I dig an inverted bridge under the water. It doesn't seem as much like a workaround as something that a bug makes more neccesary.