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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: quinquan on April 03, 2010, 08:19:15 am

Title: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: quinquan on April 03, 2010, 08:19:15 am

I've been messing around with arena mode for a while, and it seems that bronze colossuses (colussi?) seems ever so slightly unkillable without magma. I set up the following fight in arena mode:

1 bronze colossus

vs

26 hydra, 10 ogres and 3 dwarfs (grand master hammer/armour/shield/dodge/wrestler/fighter, fully decked out in adamantine)

The colossus won, without a scratch.

I promptly set up a second test with the same colossus up against 10 dwarves (grand master axe/armour/shield/dodge/wrestler/fighter, fully decked out in adamantine) at which point the dwarves promptly chopped off the colossus' hands and feet. Fight over you might think, but no, this colossus then went on to break a dwarf's hand almost immediately (don't ask me what it hit him with).

The fight is still on going, its been about 40 minutes so far and the colossus has lost both hands, both feet, both ears and its nose, all of its other body parts are red and its still fighting. Despite its injuries, its killed 4 of the dwarves, and injured all but one of the others to varying degrees.

Has anyone discovered a magmaless way to kill one of these yet? I'm just about to set 2 colossuses off against each other in a separate bit of the arena, to see if either of them can kill each other.

Update -  while I was typing that last part, the colossus got another kill.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: tigrex on April 03, 2010, 08:24:41 am

This is the colossi's revenge upon us for not allowing it to survive worldgen till now.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ampoliros on April 03, 2010, 08:24:46 am

two-handed slade swords. Try it.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 03, 2010, 08:26:25 am

Too bad it lost it's hands so quick.  Try grappling an enemy's head with one of your hands as a Colossus and pinch it.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: quinquan on April 03, 2010, 08:33:54 am

Quote

two-handed slade swords. Try it.

That worked, eventually, after it killed the first 2 humans I spawned. That's right, lying on the ground, with no hands or feet to attack with, it killed 2 humans (along with 6 of the 10 dwarves I spawned)

However, is there anyway of killing them in fortress mode without slade (or magma), since we're not meant to be able to get to that rock.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 03, 2010, 08:41:43 am

Dragons can melt them with some level of effectiveness.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But the arena still fills up with dragon bodies.

So yeah, someone needs to figure why they don't get hurt. Even when I pit two of them against one another and ASSUME CONTROL of one we cannot hurt each other, no matter what I try. They just don't seem to suffer injury, likely due to being solid bronze, but somthing still seems amiss.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, as for slade, that stuff seems more powerful than anything else. But as this is the stone that makes up the HFS it can never be viable, except in arena mode. I read in another thread that the game refuses to even recognize it's use in a construction, even if you can manage to mine it.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2010, 08:42:46 am

http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2078-failingtopwnacolossus
these are archers with adamantine weapons and all legendary skills.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Nexii Malthus on April 03, 2010, 08:43:52 am

Has been mentioned before. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52289.0)

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ampoliros on April 03, 2010, 08:52:59 am

Quote from: quinquan on April 03, 2010, 08:33:54 am

Quote

two-handed slade swords. Try it.

That worked, eventually, after it killed the first 2 humans I spawned. That's right, lying on the ground, with no hands or feet to attack with, it killed 2 humans (along with 6 of the 10 dwarves I spawned)

However, is there anyway of killing them in fortress mode without slade (or magma), since we're not meant to be able to get to that rock.

Hah, that I don't know. I know iron and adamantium aren't enough. The colossus just has a high barrier of entry to dealing kill-able damage, and once you breach that particular barrier they die pretty quick.

although, i don't know if arena equipment has quality modifiers, so that may help in dorf mode

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: dreiche2 on April 03, 2010, 08:57:22 am

Yes, it's probably bugged, but also, using adamantine hammers and projectiles is likely pointless because they're basically weightless.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: quinquan on April 03, 2010, 08:58:20 am

I think their complete invulnerability to seemingly every attack is due to a mixture of [NOPAIN], [NOEXERT] and the fact that they are now actually made of bronze. Because of this combination they are almost impossible to damage, due to all their tissue layers being solid bronze. This means you need to be very lucky to hit them with anything and even then, it has almost no effect on them, because of [NOPAIN], they just keep going hitting with whatever is left, bronze is bronze, be is a fist or a foot or whatever's its left with. Due to [NOEXERT] they can just keep going forever outlasting any other opponent and then crushing them.

I think the forbidden stone is so effective due to its massive weight so it just destroys anything in its path with ease.

Update of the 2 dueling colossuses - they are still going, both having removed all of the others fingers, then their hands and quite a lot of toes, and causing general damage to their bodies, however there is no end in sight for their battle.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2010, 09:06:38 am

Code: [Select]

creature_wtf

[OBJECT:CREATURE]

[CREATURE:COLOSSUS_SLADE]
[DESCRIPTION:A gigantic magic statue made of slade and bent on mayhem.]
[NAME:slade colossus:slade colossuses:slade colossus]
[CASTE_NAME:slade colossus:slade colossuses:slade colossus]
[CREATURE_TILE:'C'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[MEGABEAST]
[ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:10000:100000]
[FANCIFUL]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
[NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NO_FEVERS]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[SPHERE:METALS]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[SPHERE:WAR]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[EQUIPS]
[NOFEAR]
[PREFSTRING:height]
[NOBONES]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:HUMANOID_JOINTS:5FINGERS:5TOES]
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[TISSUE:SLADE]
[TISSUE_NAME:slade:slade]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:SLADE]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SLADE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:20000000]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ITEMCORPSE:STATUE:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:SLADE]
[ITEMCORPSE_QUALITY:5]
[DIURNAL]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]


Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 03, 2010, 09:36:34 am

You..You monster...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd like to see the HFS fight that beast.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 03, 2010, 09:40:39 am

There's always the Dwarven Atom Smasher.  Or dropping them repeatedly from huge heights.  Seriously.  I fell from the bridge to the bottom of the pit in the arena and lost my right ear.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Lordinquisitor on April 03, 2010, 09:43:21 am

Well, i`d like to be able to kill a bronze colossus with sufficient iron weapons and manpower.

Still, it would be cool if magma and dragonfire actually would stay the most cost efficient way of killing it.

More serious are the truly unkillable undeads.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Rakonas on April 03, 2010, 10:17:53 am

Quote from: quinquan on April 03, 2010, 08:58:20 am

I think their complete invulnerability to seemingly every attack is due to a mixture of [NOPAIN], [NOEXERT] and the fact that they are now actually made of bronze. Because of this combination they are almost impossible to damage, due to all their tissue layers being solid bronze. This means you need to be very lucky to hit them with anything and even then, it has almost no effect on them, because of [NOPAIN], they just keep going hitting with whatever is left, bronze is bronze, be is a fist or a foot or whatever's its left with. Due to [NOEXERT] they can just keep going forever outlasting any other opponent and then crushing them.

I think the forbidden stone is so effective due to its massive weight so it just destroys anything in its path with ease.

Update of the 2 dueling colossuses - they are still going, both having removed all of the others fingers, then their hands and quite a lot of toes, and causing general damage to their bodies, however there is no end in sight for their battle.

It's not Nopain and noexert, I spent an hour testing it yesterday and didn't get a dead colossus until I changed their tissue from [INORGANIC_BRONZE] to [ORGANIC_BRONZE]. Just changing it to a weaker metal doesn't seem to do anything either, at least so I observed.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Virex on April 03, 2010, 11:23:46 am

Has anyone tried modding in Lead Warhammers yet? They might just be metal enough to make a dent.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: darius on April 03, 2010, 12:22:54 pm

Tried did not work.
What worked: magma men+fire imps

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ampersand on April 03, 2010, 01:05:08 pm

The strength and relative size of the attacker has a lot to do with it. Dwarfs were only able to hack of hands and feet, but Minotaurs were able to hack off it's arms at the shoulders.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Kelbin on April 03, 2010, 10:36:37 pm

I got a bronze collosus to

Upperbody
Lowerbody
head
everything else lopped off

It still continued to bite the humans throats out while having it's head continuously shattered multiple times by

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

slade

greataxes and mauls by giants.

Or wait? can collossus bite?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: RandomNumberGenerator on April 03, 2010, 10:50:07 pm

I pitted a No Skill Bronze Colossus 1 on 1 against a Grandmaster Everything Elf(Yes, Elf; Dwarves aren't tall enough to teach it's upper body and head) with Steel Full Plate, a Steel Longsword and a Steel Shield. The Colossus charged the elf over and over, but thanks to his unrealistically high skills the Elf dodged everything the Colossus threw at him. The Elf repeatedly stabbed the colossus, which fractured various body parts. Repeated fractures wounded them, first to yellow then to red. Eventually the elf took it down to Red Body and Head, with arms and legs chopped off, within about 30 minutes. 2 hours later, no further progress had been made, despite the fact that the elf fractured the colossus' head around 50 times more since(I would have thought it would be reduced to dust by that point). Eventually the elf became Tired and fell over. No longer able to dodge, the colossus squished him.

I tried it again with a Magma Man, who eventually melted the colossus. If I didn't give the Magma Man steel armor though, the Colossus would always kill the magma man early on.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 03, 2010, 10:56:31 pm

So far I'm pretty sure the only way a bronze colossus can be killed is my encasement, brige, melting, or decapitation by removal of it's head, upper body, or lower body.  Admitedly I've only managed to remove the head so far by pitting a full grand master BC with a shale 2hand swords against a no skill unarmed BC.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: PsyberianHusky on April 03, 2010, 11:07:08 pm

I kinnda like the concept of sealing a living one withing the fortress myself

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Patarak on April 03, 2010, 11:09:23 pm

Should/did red status limbs remove functionality? Because I had a pair of duelling bronze colossi that had red left and right upper arms, and they could still swing their axes at each other. Would that come under one of their tags like nopain?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 03, 2010, 11:15:24 pm

What about vast arrays of catapults hurling platinum/lead, or lead-tipped (iron/steel if that's not possible) ballista arrows? Maybe dropping stone on them from hundreds of z-levels up? Dropping them into massive pits with bridge traps, as someone suggested? Making an elaborate firebomb - putting lots of lignite near your fortress entrance, and dropping a !!lignite block!! from above?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on April 03, 2010, 11:15:31 pm

This was mentioned in various threads before but...

Spoiler: Why Bronze Colossi are basically immortal (click to show/hide)

Vanilla DF weapons do not have a mix of contact area, strength/power, and size to destroy a a Bronze Colossus' torso/head thanks to the materials rewrite. At best you'd be able to knock off limbs. Slade works because it's like 10x more dense than platinum. Good luck getting that into weapons in fort mode.

With modded weapons and creatures, obviously, you can kill them.

This may seem like overkill, but remember, Colossus of Rhodes- a 100+ ft. tall bronze monstrosity.

Other than that it's melting or encasing in rock, direct shot by siege weapons needs more testing.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Candlejack on April 03, 2010, 11:30:15 pm

Aren't all inorganics in DF 2010 unkillable by conventional means? Would a

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

slade 2hander

work on all of those too?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on April 03, 2010, 11:33:44 pm

They will work on anything smaller than a bronze colossus, so yes.

Mind you, you can drop skeletal creatures and they will blow apart on impact from high enough.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: LumenPlacidum on April 03, 2010, 11:55:36 pm

Try lowering the relsize of the head.  If the weapon needs to cleave THROUGH the head in order to detach it, then it has to have penetration depth in order to pass from one side clean through to the other.  If that's not happening, the head will never be lopped off.  The legs have a greater relsize than the head, but it's possible that some of the weapon's length is used in simply REACHING the head, making it easier to hack at the legs than the head (although I see no indication that the head must necessarily be higher than the legs in the raws.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 04, 2010, 12:12:31 am

Well, what if you were to have your dwarves stand on little crates? :P

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Patarak on April 04, 2010, 12:19:05 am

Is that seriously why multiple limb injuries won't kill a limb? The weapon literally can't break enough of it? Woah.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 04, 2010, 12:26:31 am

Do BC get caught in cage traps? Or are they immune, as normal traps most likely won't cut it, and big traps can be tricky.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 04, 2010, 01:18:47 am

Quote from: Patarak on April 04, 2010, 12:19:05 am

Is that seriously why multiple limb injuries won't kill a limb? The weapon literally can't break enough of it? Woah.

Yeah, it seems like attacks always hit a "clean" spot on the body part, like you're never able to hack away at something.

Here's an analogy: Imagine cutting down a tree. Each chop doesn't really do a lot of damage, but you hit enough time in roughly the same spot, you cut all the way through. In current DF terms, it's more like you hit a completely different spot on the tree every single time, meaning that you just won't cut the thing down unless you can cleave through the entire thing in one blow.

I thought I remembered something in the dev log about attacks hitting previous wounds and making them worse, but maybe it's not working properly or something, or I'm just wrong about something.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Neonivek on April 04, 2010, 02:13:14 am

Don't forget that in Fortress mode you have traps and Siege weapons.

If it took a small group of highly skilled Dwarves to take down the Collosus then they would be absolutely no problem.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 04, 2010, 11:59:23 am

The problem, I think, is the disparity between hurling 30 legendary marksdwarves and 10 legendary hammerdwarves at the colossus and getting slaughtered, and one cage trap. I mean, either you go the hard way and get totally massacred, or go the easy way, and that's no fun either. So yes, if you only needed a few legendaries to kill it, that would be good, but the tests show that you need far, far more, and it might be invincible (well, it's not like a disembodied head would be any real problem, but it'd still be better if it died).

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on April 04, 2010, 01:21:44 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Has anyone tried mining Slade with Adamantine picks?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Virex on April 04, 2010, 01:24:14 pm

Quote from: Cheddarius on April 03, 2010, 11:15:24 pm

What about vast arrays of catapults hurling platinum/lead, or lead-tipped (iron/steel if that's not possible) ballista arrows? Maybe dropping stone on them from hundreds of z-levels up? Dropping them into massive pits with bridge traps, as someone suggested? Making an elaborate firebomb - putting lots of lignite near your fortress entrance, and dropping a !!lignite block!! from above?

To add to that, thouhg it's only possible in fortress mode: Try building a 100+ Z-level high tower, fill it with water, then use that pressure to smack the collosus into a wall and see what happens.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Strange guy on April 04, 2010, 01:28:26 pm

Quote from: Mr_Ham97 on April 04, 2010, 01:21:44 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Has anyone tried mining Slade with Adamantine picks?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I remember reading in a thread that it had been tried and failed, even when Adamantine was given the same properties as Slade. I think making one of Slades properties one lower allowed mining it with anything.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 04, 2010, 04:43:14 pm

Quote from: Strange guy on April 04, 2010, 01:28:26 pm

Quote from: Mr_Ham97 on April 04, 2010, 01:21:44 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Has anyone tried mining Slade with Adamantine picks?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I remember reading in a thread that it had been tried and failed, even when Adamantine was given the same properties as Slade. I think making one of Slades properties one lower allowed mining it with anything.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, reducing the SHATTER VALUE from 50000 to 49999 makes it mineable.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Lightning4 on April 04, 2010, 05:38:13 pm

I threw like seven adventurers at a colossus once. I failed to kill it.
My first adventurer armed with some kind of hammer did a lot of damage though. Human. Every single body part shattered yet pieces did not come off at all.
You would think that shattering it enough would cause parts to just completely flake off or something... but alas.
Later, I started whacking it with a sasquatch corpse. Surprisingly effective. Blew fingers and toes off but still no major damage.
I eventually gave up, having sent many adventurers to their doom. I probably didn't use the most effective weapons, but DAMN those things are impossible to kill. I'm shuddering at the thought of meeting one in dwarf mode without cage traps or an atom smasher.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 04, 2010, 06:07:12 pm

Obviously the real test then is to see if an adventurer can kill a bronze colossus by WIELDING A BRONZE COLOSSUS CORPSE.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: chaoticag on April 04, 2010, 06:11:26 pm

You mean the statue of trout he turns into upon death?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 04, 2010, 06:12:07 pm

Yes.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 04, 2010, 06:14:44 pm

Hmm, Toady has mentioned stuff about various poisons, gasses and general status effects. Any chance there is something super effective against the BC? I know gnome repellent works now.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 04, 2010, 06:36:11 pm

Using a bronze colossus corpse just leads to Catch-22 rage though. Unless you can use some of the other methods first, like superluminal water bombs or whatnot.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Frogwarrior on April 04, 2010, 08:02:48 pm

I have defeated the mighty bronze colossus!

Where by "defeated," I mean, "if I lure it into jumping into a murky pool after me, it stops moving apparently forever."

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 04, 2010, 08:40:34 pm

Quote from: Frogwarrior on April 04, 2010, 08:02:48 pm

I have defeated the mighty bronze colossus!

Where by "defeated," I mean, "if I lure it into jumping into a murky pool after me, it stops moving apparently forever."

Le Gasp! The animating force of a bronze colossus is water-soluble! Quick, flood the entire planet!

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 04, 2010, 08:52:22 pm

Iton: Ready, Urist?
Urist: Lets do it then.

*Both put keys in keyhole*

*Pulls down big lever*

Iton: Just like the old days...
Urist: Aye, that it it, although water does seem a little less impressive.

*World starts to flood with water*

Urist: So what do you think this will do to the local carp population?
Iton:...What have we done?!?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 04, 2010, 09:05:32 pm

Iton and Urist: Oh great Armok, whom's blood soaked form strikes fear into your enemies, what shall we do!?

Armok remains silent

Iton: Damn it!


Seriously though, I think The Great Toad has fixed carp, so your fear is unfounded.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Dakk on April 04, 2010, 09:54:56 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have tested bronze colossi against a reasonably skilled dwarf in full adamantine and a slade two handed sword, he killed 4 bronze colossi before dying when 3 decided to beat him over the head and rip his face off bit by bits untill he bled to death (seriously, they gouged out his eyes and ripped off his eyelids and lips).

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 04, 2010, 09:56:24 pm

Now do it WITHOUT use of a forbidden material.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Slade can not be used in fortress mode, so hats no good, and so far adventure mode hasn't given me any.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Dakk on April 04, 2010, 10:18:50 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Adamantine works too, but it must be a bladed weapon. A slade maul can break every part on a bronze colossus's body and he'll keep attacking.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 04, 2010, 10:29:24 pm

Quote from: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 03, 2010, 08:26:25 am

Too bad it lost it's hands so quick.  Try grappling an enemy's head with one of your hands as a Colossus and pinch it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8663/pincheddown.png)

On Topic:
25 Dwarves with Grandmastery in all skills + Loincloth + Adamant 2Handed Swords versus 1 BC

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3860/notascratch.png)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2231/victoryt.png)

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 04, 2010, 11:07:37 pm

I'm pretty sure I've never seen adamantine weapons work against them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's weird as hell that slade works, since the stuff is almost 10 times as heavy as platinum, and about 25 times as heavy as iron (which is itself a bit heavier than steel, I guess). Dwarves being able to even lift something made out of that is weird, never mind being able to successfully wield it in the form of a large weapon.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 04, 2010, 11:46:14 pm

Toady most likely implemented weapon weight. Weight causes a crushing damage which would destroy the collosus. The slender Adamantite weapons can cut, but they wont work against something made of bronze. They are easy to wave about and can turn elves into deli meat, but the same cant be said about the Collosi.

I bet you money that if you spawn a Dwarf with two hammers he will do a number..

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Olith McHuman on April 04, 2010, 11:49:23 pm

What if you were to wield the corpse of a very massive creature? Some corpses weigh as much as 4500. Platinum warhammers, by comparison, only weigh 8. I've tried this as a dwarf, but the weight of the corpse means that the bc gets extra attacks and seems to make it harder for me to dodge (Is this new? If so, then awesome).

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: RandomNumberGenerator on April 04, 2010, 11:57:23 pm

A Legendary Fighter/Axedwarf/Armor User/Shield User/Dodger/Wrestler Dwarf with Full Steel Plate and a Steel Battleaxe can take a Bronze colossus on, 1-on-1, and 'win'(reducing the colossus to all red, arms/feet lopped off, while sustaining no injuries). Actually killing the colossus is a different matter, since they just won't die unless you melt them.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Karlito on April 04, 2010, 11:57:54 pm

I had an adventurer almost kill a colossus today. I could damage it with a maul if he was prone, and I blocked 99.9% of his attacks. Eventually I hit him so much that he had all red wounds, no usable hands, and he could even stand up anymore. Of course, he didn't bleed and felt no pain, so I'm not sure if he was any closer to death than at full health. Eventually, he pushed (yes, not hit, not attacked, but PUSHED) my guy in the head, shattering my poor adventurer's skull.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 05, 2010, 12:10:03 am

I attempted to use a all grand master dwarf with total slade armor use a whale shark body (Largest size of any creature) to beat a skilless bronze colossus to death. It didn't exactly work out, due to the horrible death thing without a lick of harm to the colossus.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 05, 2010, 12:15:09 am

Perhaps we should stick to weapons.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 05, 2010, 12:20:00 am

Quote from: Karlito on April 04, 2010, 11:57:54 pm

I had an adventurer almost kill a colossus today. I could damage it with a maul if he was prone, and I blocked 99.9% of his attacks. Eventually I hit him so much that he had all red wounds, no usable hands, and he could even stand up anymore. Of course, he didn't bleed and felt no pain, so I'm not sure if he was any closer to death than at full health. Eventually, he pushed (yes, not hit, not attacked, but PUSHED) my guy in the head, shattering my poor adventurer's skull.

Yeah, BCs don't bleed and don't have any organs or even feel pain, so the only way to destroy them is to literally sever the head in one shot (or upper/lower body, I guess). It's impossible to do this with in-game equipment.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 05, 2010, 12:25:45 am

Quote from: Iban on April 05, 2010, 12:15:09 am

Perhaps we should stick to weapons.

Hey, it was Olith's idea; I was just carrying it out. But this does give us some new info: Whale Shark Bodes weigh alot, perhaps as much or more than slade. If it is, then this would mean that slade's weight is not the reason it works on the Bronze Colossus. Meaning we would have to try and see why it works again. So, can anyone confirm?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 05, 2010, 12:26:41 am

Knowing the complexity of this game, density is also another contributing factor.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 05, 2010, 12:33:40 am

Of course, but he was just asking if there are other factors.

Of course, a whale body is a really poor comparison, because we don't know how the game even calculates damage from things like that, and in any case, it shouldn't hold an edge.


In addition to having high density, it seems to be extremely inflexible in all ways and nigh-impossible to bend or break. I'm not sure which of these matter or in which ways. It doesn't have a specified MAX_EDGE, so it probably uses the default from the metal template, which is [MAX_EDGE:10000], which is the same as the other metals I can see (except adamantine, which has a value ten times that).


Oh, for what it's worth, obsidian now has [MAX_EDGE:20000]. This is twice the value of the above default. This might turn out interesting.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 01:59:04 am

I have been fighting a Bronze Colossus in DF2010 adventure mode, and so far i have spent an entire real life hour fighting him.  I have used spears, crossbows 400 bolts+Bashing, battle axes, and wrestling.  Every one of his limbs is red, yet I can not seem to kill him.  what am I doing wrong?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 05, 2010, 02:00:47 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 01:59:04 am

I have been fighting a Bronze Colossus in DF2010 adventure mode, and so far i have spent an entire real life hour fighting him.  I have used spears, crossbows 400 bolts+Bashing, battle axes, and wrestling.  Every one of his limbs is red, yet I can not seem to kill him.  what am I doing wrong?

Try getting him to fall into a volcano.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:01:59 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 01:59:04 am

I have been fighting a Bronze Colossus in DF2010 adventure mode, and so far i have spent an entire real life hour fighting him.  I have used spears, crossbows 400 bolts+Bashing, battle axes, and wrestling.  Every one of his limbs is red, yet I can not seem to kill him.  what am I doing wrong?

Trying.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:04:46 am

Quote from: Iban on April 05, 2010, 02:00:47 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 01:59:04 am

I have been fighting a Bronze Colossus in DF2010 adventure mode, and so far i have spent an entire real life hour fighting him.  I have used spears, crossbows 400 bolts+Bashing, battle axes, and wrestling.  Every one of his limbs is red, yet I can not seem to kill him.  what am I doing wrong?

Try getting him to fall into a volcano.

I am on the top of a plateau im trying to force him down the mountain atm. can they drownin a river?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 05, 2010, 02:08:00 am

They don't have to breathe, so no. Hell, they don't rely on any particular parts, in general, except probably the UB/LB/head. The only environmental conditions that would kill them involve melting.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: chaoticag on April 05, 2010, 02:10:59 am

I'm seriously considering adding a "blood" of some sort to them steam sounds nice at this point. Now to figure out this whole "modding" thing...

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:11:36 am

So then how the frk am i going to kill him?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:13:00 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:11:36 am

So then how the frk am i going to kill him?

I thought that was obvious. You don't.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:14:47 am

Quote from: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:13:00 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:11:36 am

So then how the frk am i going to kill him?

I thought that was obvious. You don't.

:( well then whats the best way to kill them then... other then stab them for 20 years.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 05, 2010, 02:17:17 am

Stabbing them for 20 years won't work either. Or 200, or 2000. It's been explained elsewhere in the thread, at least once by myself.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:17:47 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:14:47 am

Quote from: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:13:00 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:11:36 am

So then how the frk am i going to kill him?

I thought that was obvious. You don't.

:( well then whats the best way to kill them then... other then stab them for 20 years.

20 years worth of stabbing won't do it. Your option are firing lead tipped logs at him using a massive siege device, or a lava flood trap. Failing those, or if your playing adventure mode, some people say a clownite sword can do it, but you still need some luck.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:20:08 am

Quote from: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:17:47 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:14:47 am

Quote from: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:13:00 am

Quote from: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:11:36 am

So then how the frk am i going to kill him?

I thought that was obvious. You don't.

he just killed me...
:( well then whats the best way to kill them then... other then stab them for 20 years.

20 years worth of stabbing won't do it. Your option are firing lead tipped logs at him using a massive siege device, or a lava flood trap. Failing those, or if your playing adventure mode, some people say a clownite sword can do it, but you still need some luck.

He killed me...

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Neonivek on April 05, 2010, 02:21:48 am

Even the Bronze Collosus should be injured by Siege weapons.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 05, 2010, 02:24:45 am

Quote from: Neonivek on April 05, 2010, 02:21:48 am

Even the Bronze Collosus should be injured by Siege weapons.

Should is such a vague word.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Frogwarrior on April 05, 2010, 02:43:14 am

I heard a rumor that a fall can do them in. Haven't tested it tho.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 05, 2010, 02:49:14 am

Along with siege, other options that have been discussed are RKV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_kill_vehicle)s using water, massive corpses, huge kitten cluster bombs, etc. dropped from 100 Z's above, luring them into a bridge trap that drops them a large height, atom smashing, magma cannons, and collapsing large structures onto them (preferably from large heights).

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 02:56:55 am

I went back with 10 dwarfs helping, he killed all of them so I ran xD.  It would seem clownite is pretty much the only way you[/b] could kill it in adventure mode.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 05, 2010, 02:58:17 am

From my tests in arena mode, adamantine doesn't work either, regardless of weapon/skill.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Alfador on April 05, 2010, 03:05:45 am

Zerg rushing does seem to eliminate the threat. 142 super-legendary dwarves in steel armor wielding steel battle axes  managed to mangle everything on a BC and lop off all hands and feet. Thing was... it was still alive, but its attacks couldn't penetrate their armor. No dead dwarves.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Pkassad on April 05, 2010, 03:07:12 am

Quote from: Alfador on April 05, 2010, 03:05:45 am

Zerg rushing does seem to eliminate the threat. 142 super-legendary dwarves in steel armor wielding steel battle axes  managed to mangle everything on a BC and lop off all hands and feet. Thing was... it was still alive, but its attacks couldn't penetrate their armor. No dead dwarves.

He never was able to hurt me and I battled for an hour in real life, though the only time he hit me was when i was set to "Stand ground"

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: PsyberianHusky on April 05, 2010, 03:43:56 am

So if I was to build a fort, how would I prepare for something unstoppable like this? a large pit trap? Crushing it? trapping it in a room with firemen?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: gamegreen33 on April 05, 2010, 03:51:40 am

Quote from: PsyberianHusky on April 05, 2010, 03:43:56 am

So if I was to build a fort, how would I prepare for something unstoppable like this? a large pit trap? Crushing it? trapping it in a room with firemen?

Build a huge room,  big enough to hold all of your dwarves.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then fill it with coffins.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: AxemRed on April 05, 2010, 05:30:44 am

I stood with a small pool of water behind me, and when he charged me. I dodged and he landed in the 2x1 pool of water. He's not dead. But he can't do anything besides yell his name when I get close and collect rust now. He's still not dead, and I won't get the pat on the back from the quest giver. But it feels like a personal victory.

Plus one day, maybe I'll built a fort there and tame him, or make him a museum exhibit. Not sure yet, but it'll be awesome.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 05, 2010, 12:42:50 pm

In regards to water-immobilization: I have no idea why it works,as a being of solid bronze would obviously sink, but why it cannot move on it's own z-level is a mystery. Does .31 support water pressure from depth?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Neonivek on April 05, 2010, 12:55:01 pm

In terms of Fortress mode, the Bronze Collosus is finally a great challenge (though too easily dealt with with a few exploits)

Adventurer mode, the Bronze Collosus is currently near unbeatable. Though it feels more that Adventurer mode is limited then the Bronze Collosus being unfairly difficult.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Samthere on April 05, 2010, 01:44:51 pm

So yesterday I played through adventurer and, like many before me, was assigned a quest to take down a bronze colossus. After about half an hour of battling and no change (apart from some of my skills going way up), I decided to just use it for training in the different weapons I was carrying. Finally, I decided to train my unarmed combat. Bad move. As soon as I dropped my shield he punched me in the arm, shattering the bone, and by the time I picked up my shield I was already in too much pain to block effectively. He punched my skull through my brain.

I then read this thread, and decided I wanted the colossus to be defeatable, if not trivial. After trying a few things out in arena, I decided to quarter the size of the bronze colossus. This allowed its head to be removed with a lucky attack by a dwarf with GM everything and a steel battle axe.

Also: NEVER give a colossus a shield. It can and will take out as many dragons as you send after it, with minimal melting.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Neonivek on April 05, 2010, 01:49:00 pm

Eventually I highly suspect shields will be a LOT less effective.

Or at least... lose its magical ability to block a nuclear explosion so long as it strikes the shield itself leaving you entirely unharmed as the landscape is vaporised.

Though that sort of change is rather far away.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Mangled on April 05, 2010, 02:30:15 pm

I had a Collosus visit my fort only for it to die two steps later.
Not sure if this is relevant because in 40d I've had that happen to other megabeasts that came but it's worth mentioning since this fort was on a glacier.
So either cold kills them or it was just a glitch.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Alfador on April 05, 2010, 03:57:50 pm

Quote from: Samthere on April 05, 2010, 01:44:51 pm

He punched my skull through my brain.

You mean... he beat you to death with your own skull? That doesn't seem physically possible! ;D

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 05, 2010, 04:30:05 pm

Quote from: Alfador on April 05, 2010, 03:57:50 pm

You mean... he beat you to death with your own skull? That doesn't seem physically possible! ;D

God Colossi don't care about your fucking physics.           

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 05, 2010, 05:40:45 pm

Quote

You mean... he beat you to death with your own skull? That doesn't seem physically possible! ;D

that's exactly what he was saying at the time!

** flashback to him being beaten to death with own skull yelling "This doesn't seem physically possible!" **

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 05, 2010, 06:09:27 pm

"I seem to be dying right now! Let me contemplate the intricacies of the specific method in which my attacker is killing me!"

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cardinal on April 05, 2010, 06:54:14 pm

Quote from: gamegreen33 on April 05, 2010, 03:51:40 am

Build a huge room,  big enough to hold all of your dwarves.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then fill it with coffins.

Best solution for the BC yet.  I like the nigh-invulnerability of it--it adds class to the game.  And if you're in Adventure mode and someone gives you a BC quest, you should take that as a quest to kill the person who's trying to send you to your doom.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Mangled on April 05, 2010, 07:25:38 pm

"On it's right ankle there is a nail, pull it out."
Or something to that effect, can't remember much of Greek mythology but I'm certain Talos was a Bronze colossus. Maybe even Titan?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Quantum Toast on April 05, 2010, 07:39:33 pm

Theory: instead of cutting the head off you should be hollowing it out and putting in a seat and some levers.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Mangled on April 05, 2010, 07:44:47 pm

We have a winner.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: LoneJedi7 on April 05, 2010, 07:46:43 pm

every time i put a dragon against a BC in arena mode the dragon melts the bronze collosus and kills it. (with notable injuries of course, but the dragon still wins)

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 05, 2010, 08:02:17 pm

I find no nail on a BC's right ankle, so that idea is out the window. Would have been cool though, as it would mean their nigh-unkillibleness was intended by the Great Toad all along.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: kenken244 on April 05, 2010, 08:23:26 pm

I tried the slade weapons thing, but it seems to be not working. It's head is already so damaged that I got the message:
"you hack the bronze colossus in the head with your slade greataxe, but the attack passes through!"

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 06, 2010, 07:01:11 am

I think a two-handed sword might be your best bet. And luck. It probably helps if you play as a bronze colossus.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 07:23:06 am

So, blowpipes? I hear you can get poisen ammo, so infect and let die by itself?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 06, 2010, 07:24:30 am

A bronze colossus doesn't even really have tissues, never mind organs or anything that can get poisoned, so that wouldn't work.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 07:25:47 am

Poisen with a less reactive metallic oxide and make him rust to death?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: jokermatt999 on April 06, 2010, 10:26:42 pm

This reminds me of the time last version that I modded BC'es to be 10 or 100 times the usual size, so they'd survive world gen.

However, I either forgot to change them back or it doesn't matter if you change them after world gen, and I had one visit. He absolutely tore everything up, including multiple reclaim parties. At one point, he broke down a door holding back some magma, and melted his feet (but nothing else; I was really hoping it would kill him). I wound up with a lumbering monstrosity that would instantly throw creatures across several screens to their doom. It was actually pretty fun.

Anyway, I'm thinking I may mod their speed to be super slow to offset their being death personified, and to make them a more interesting challenge.

Also, has anyone tried a ballista bolt to the face yet? Those used to be pretty destructive last version; has that changed?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 06, 2010, 10:28:57 pm

It's entirely possible to kill a BC.

Spawn one against 5 legendary humans on a team using Slade Two-handers.

Go on, I'll wait.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 10:50:18 pm

Quote from: Iban on April 06, 2010, 10:28:57 pm

It's entirely possible to kill a BC.

Spawn one against 5 legendary humans on a team using Slade Two-handers.

Go on, I'll wait.

What workshop do I use to spawn humans, and how do I make weapon out a slade?

It would be really helpful right now because I have a BC trapped in a room missing all its limbs and still will not die!

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 06, 2010, 10:52:55 pm

He's talking about Arena Mode. Slade isn't even usable during actual gameplay.

The point is that it takes a two-handed sword made out of a material almost ten times as dense as platinum in order to kill them.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 10:55:04 pm

*Facepalm*

I'm going to pretend you didn't totally miss the sarcasm.

So your saying that the only way to kill it is using something not found in game? Well that's handy!

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 06, 2010, 10:59:30 pm

Ah, sorry. I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm, because, well, I've talked to people who I can imagine saying that and meaning it.


You might also be able to kill them using ballista bolts (I have no idea about this, and if possible it would probably require a very lucky shot), or by somehow melting them.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:03:39 pm

Meh, could set up a firing range, but that requires some sort of effort and distracts from my current project of farming underground critters, as for lava, ITS 150 Z LEVELS DOWN! DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH PUMPING THAT TAKES! I don't have the mandwarf power!

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:26:16 pm

Quote from: Max White on April 06, 2010, 10:55:04 pm

*Facepalm*

I'm going to pretend you didn't totally miss the sarcasm.

So your saying that the only way to kill it is using something not found in game? Well that's handy!

Not at all.  It's found in the game just fine if you dig enough.  It's just unusable.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:28:25 pm

You have managed to find slade, but that doesn't mean there is a slade sword in the game. Unless you meant you plan on throwing slade stones at him, you have yet to find something that can kill a BC.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: G-Flex on April 06, 2010, 11:35:51 pm

You can't throw slade stones either, because (aside from this one mysterious bug situation that I don't yet understand) you can't even mine the stuff. It's not intended to be usable or diggable in any way.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:38:08 pm

Well I was taking the mining bug into effect, but apart from that, there might as well not even BE slade, so if were looking for an effective method of BC slaying, it should avoid use of this mythical stone.

Would prefer not to use siege devices as well, due to adventure mode and all.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:43:51 pm

It's not mythical.  It just can't be used.  It can't be designated to be mined or anything.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:46:09 pm

Quote from: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:43:51 pm

It's not mythical.  It just can't be used.  It can't be designated to be mined or anything.

Unicorns are mythical, but that doesn't stop me from making totems out of there skulls!

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:50:21 pm

Ok... all that argument does, if anything, is support my assertion that Slade isn't mythical.  Because mythical things can be used, but Slade can't.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:53:54 pm

Quote from: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:50:21 pm

Ok... all that argument does, if anything, is support my assertion that Slade isn't mythical.  Because mythical things can be used, but Slade can't.

Therefor implying that iron is mythical.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Neonivek on April 07, 2010, 12:13:23 am

Quote from: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:53:54 pm

Quote from: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:50:21 pm

Ok... all that argument does, if anything, is support my assertion that Slade isn't mythical.  Because mythical things can be used, but Slade can't.

Therefor implying that iron is mythical.

I don't know... Have you ever seen anything made out of Iron? Usually I just see steel.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Max White on April 07, 2010, 12:15:32 am

Quote from: Neonivek on April 07, 2010, 12:13:23 am

Quote from: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:53:54 pm

Quote from: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:50:21 pm

Ok... all that argument does, if anything, is support my assertion that Slade isn't mythical.  Because mythical things can be used, but Slade can't.

Therefor implying that iron is mythical.

I don't know... Have you ever seen anything made out of Iron? Usually I just see steel.

My god, THE IRON IS A LIE!!!

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: SIGVARDR on April 07, 2010, 12:26:44 am

I dunno,bronze is kind of weak.I think we need a steel or adamantium colossus.That's made of metal that regenerates when its lopped off.You know,because the bronze ones just aren't challenging enough.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Iban on April 07, 2010, 12:28:25 am

An adam one would not be able to die. ever. It would be able to move in water and resist magma. Dragon fire may be able to melt it, but I HIGHLY doubt it.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: SIGVARDR on April 07, 2010, 12:32:27 am

Quote from: Iban on April 07, 2010, 12:28:25 am

An adam one would not be able to die. ever. It would be able to move in water and resist magma. Dragon fire may be able to melt it, but I HIGHLY doubt it.

then all that would be left to do is to mod in building destroyer 3,making it able to destroy walls and fortifications.Now that would be a tad difficult to survive.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cthulhu on April 07, 2010, 12:37:10 am

Quote from: Max White on April 06, 2010, 11:53:54 pm

Quote from: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 06, 2010, 11:50:21 pm

Ok... all that argument does, if anything, is support my assertion that Slade isn't mythical.  Because mythical things can be used, but Slade can't.

Therefor implying that iron is mythical.

The logic, it burns mine eyes.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 07, 2010, 12:39:57 am

For the person with the bronze collossus saying he doesnt want to pump magma up 150 z-levels...


YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

Instead of bringing the magma to the Collossus, bring the collosus to the magma!

Dig a huge hole beneath the room he is in (150 tiles of digging isnt that bad!) and then collapse something on his head :P

Helps if you can fix him to one spot somehow, of course.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 07, 2010, 12:45:50 am

Quote from: GlyphGryph on April 07, 2010, 12:39:57 am

Helps if you can fix him to one spot somehow, of course.

A cage made of soap?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: Cheddarius on April 07, 2010, 12:47:22 am

Would an adamantine colossus be able to survive being dropped several hundred Z's, then having a fortress dropped several hundred Z's onto him?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: SIGVARDR on April 07, 2010, 12:49:42 am

Quote from: Cheddarius on April 07, 2010, 12:47:22 am

Would an adamantine colossus be able to survive being dropped several hundred Z's, then having a fortress dropped several hundred Z's onto him?

If an adamantine colossus falls hundreds of z levels and has a fortress dropped on him,is anyone still alive to find out if he's dead?

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 07, 2010, 12:58:53 am

Such an attack would wipe out the entire U.S Eastern Seaboard if done in reality. If that couldn't kill an adamantium colossus, nothing can.

Title: Re: DF2010 - Bronze Colossuses, too hardcore?
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 09, 2010, 04:29:17 am

In fact dropping any piece of natural stone on any creature should slay it instantly.

I am talking about a prepared chamber, say 5x5, sealed with raising bridges. BC goes inside, bridges raise. Dwarf channels away the last big holding a 5x5 section of natural stone up and the stone slams down perfectly fitting into the room.

This should kill anything in the game, at any time, no matter what, forever. If you can get it into this room and drop the ceiling on it, you can kill it.

Just make sure it can't fly out if its a dragon or something.