Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Kashyyk on August 19, 2009, 03:54:25 pm

Title: Religious Flame War Mafia - END GAME
Post by: Kashyyk on August 19, 2009, 03:54:25 pm
Okay, this was copy pasted from the Religion mafia (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40425.0) thread.

Spoiler: Rules (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Religion Roles (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Town Roles (click to show/hide)

So post something in bold to play.

Current players:
1.ToonyMan
2.Mr.Person
3.RedWarrior0
4.Servant Corps
5.Bulborbish
6.Little
7.Pandarsenic
8.Cheeetar
9.Xegeth
10.Dakarian
11.OverlordFT
12.Frelock
13.Eduren

Banned:

1.Overlord FT - Troll
2.Servant Corps - Zealot
3.RedWarrior0 - Prophet
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia
Post by: ToonyMan on August 19, 2009, 03:56:44 pm
UPPERCASE MY "M" IN MY NAEM ARG.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia
Post by: bulborbish on August 19, 2009, 03:57:37 pm
SOMETHING
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia
Post by: Servant Corps on August 19, 2009, 04:08:38 pm
I MADE A GAME WITH ZOMBIES IN IT
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Little on August 19, 2009, 05:00:17 pm
I MADE A GAME WITH ZOMBIES IN IT

WHICH YOU STOPPED UPDATING.

I will join this game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Servant Corps on August 19, 2009, 05:34:45 pm
I MADE A GAME WITH ZOMBIES IN IT

WHICH YOU STOPPED UPDATING.

Um,  I was actually referring to this Xbox game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r76J95OcCOY) actually. I didn't even know I made a zombie apocyalse game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 19, 2009, 05:40:09 pm
THat looks awesome!
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 19, 2009, 06:02:51 pm
So full of win.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 19, 2009, 06:08:51 pm
I see no bold!
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2009, 07:23:10 pm
This will definitely fail, and I am most certainly not joining.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Xegeth on August 19, 2009, 11:29:56 pm
I'm in.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: dakarian on August 20, 2009, 05:14:33 am
This game will either be epic win or a failtactular.  So long as its interesting to someone I'll be happy.

I'll join

Sidenotes:  LOVE the new theme and power roles (Troll, LOL!).  It just plain sounds kickin.

Sidenote 2: Someone on the other thread said "Why recruit if the recruits don't pick up a 'Religion wins' goal:  A few reasons:

1. the recruit still counts as part of the religion.  Thus if you have 2 members and 2 recruits while there's only 3 opponents left you win. 

2. The chance of picking up a power role.

Thus there's good reasons for the religion to want to keep their recruit.  It's just that, similar to the real thing, simply 'picking them up' isn't enough to guarantee loyalty.  You need to actually speak to the player and get them convinced of your side.  They won't be willing to just betray you to another religion anyway, though, so long as the zealots exist (since now they have a nice "kill me" sticker put on them).

Btw, Kashyyk: Did you keep the "Zealot can kill their own recruits" part?  I doubt anyone would USE it but it would make for a cute way to keep your recruits in line. 



Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 20, 2009, 10:11:56 am
I MADE A GAME WITH ZOMBIES IN IT

WHICH YOU STOPPED UPDATING.

Um,  I was actually referring to this Xbox game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r76J95OcCOY) actually. I didn't even know I made a zombie apocyalse game.
I want. That music is epic.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: overlordFT on August 20, 2009, 02:55:40 pm
I am so in >:^D
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 20, 2009, 03:50:42 pm
Dakarian: Yes I intend to keep the 'Zealot may execute it's own members' rule. I also agree on the epic win or failtastic opinion.


to everyone else: The interest is good, but I alsways wan't more players.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2009, 03:53:02 pm
No time to join this one right now, but I'm posting to put it on my watch list.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Vector on August 20, 2009, 04:39:12 pm
All right...

Vote [insert name here] because [insert reasons here]
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 20, 2009, 04:42:30 pm
I am nice, but please could you boldify that?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: dakarian on August 21, 2009, 02:05:13 am
Just realized something: 12 might not be enough for the original setup (3 religions of 3 members each, rest townies).  They'll be only 3 townies then and it would be easy to just assume everyone not you/your group is a rival.  The religions should be able to hide behind the townies: at least until the zealots are dead.

with 12, I can see 2 groups of 3 members or 3 groups of two members. If the latter, the Prophet role can be dropped.  If we can get two more people, though, we can do the original set up.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2009, 10:50:09 am
Make townies 50/50 of all the religions.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: dakarian on August 21, 2009, 11:41:39 am
That could work.  Question would come to: 2 religions with 3 each or 3 religions with 2 each.

I keep going back and worth though between the two.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 21, 2009, 12:16:08 pm
I'll decide, it is up to you to work it out. :D
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 24, 2009, 09:11:49 am
Okay, sign ups are going to end tomorrow (tuesday) at mid-day forum time.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Eduren on August 24, 2009, 10:35:36 pm
Put me in
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Sign-ups!!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 26, 2009, 04:46:54 am
Right you are the last person. I'll decide on roles and PM them shortly. I hope my flavour is up to scratch.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - sending roles
Post by: Kashyyk on August 26, 2009, 05:39:34 am
This forum used to be nice, quiet and all together a very friendly place. Until those religious nuts came along. They started arguing about how their religion was better and that you would all burn in hell if you didn't follow them. So you 13, the most senior members of the forum, have decided to find the perpetrators and ban them from the forum.

Good luck


Any votes please put in red.
You may send PM's but I must be attached to all of them, no exceptions. I am the ultimate admin with insta-ban capabilities.
No modifing of posts, except for me.
If you are lynched, you may participate in your quicktopic chats (if any) If you are night killed, you may not. However, there is a Dead chat for those people.
The day will end at 18:00 on Saturday. Forum time.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 26, 2009, 05:41:14 am
Hello everyone.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2009, 05:51:18 am
Why hello. Do come in.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 08:15:49 am
And so it begins.

This game works in a very interesting concept: The factions aren't TRYING to kill us but may still do so.  The town doesn't really care for who wins but I doubt the factions will decide to play nice and not try for the kills.  As such, the agnostics has two methods to achieving their 'survive' goal:

1. find some means to keep alive.  Options include: Keeping low, proving yourself not a threat, eliminating all threats, among others. 

2. Ending this war QUICKLY. 


So what to do for now?  I know that if we keep silent we'll head into Night.  I know there's at least 3 killing roles and possibly more that's more than willing to hit randomly if they have no other information.  As such, keeping a silent day just means you are playing russian roulette in the night. 


How to avoid that?  Same way we avoid dying in any mafia game: truth.  Get people talking.  Get people to show their true colors.  Even in this crazy mess of a game, truth still wins out, and there's only one way to make that happen.

So let's start the random vote fun. 


vote Cheeetar  You're being nice.... too nice.  Is that one of your commandments?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2009, 08:36:55 am
Good morning.

Dakarian, do you have some problem with niceness?  I thought you were the one who went down when faced with a little emotional gushing.

So you're acting differently.

So maybe you've converted to one of those heathen religions out thar.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 08:44:20 am
Considering what happened to me when I accepted emotional outbursts, it became clear that I needed a new form of attack. 

Though I just recently learned of, yet, something new to try out.

Everyone

I've stated my reasonings behind how this game would work and how I would work within in. Given that this game works very different from other games, how do YOU plan on winning this game?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 26, 2009, 08:54:39 am
Good morning.

Dakarian, do you have some problem with niceness?  I thought you were the one who went down when faced with a little emotional gushing.

So you're acting differently.

So maybe you've converted to one of those heathen religions out thar.

I find your choice of wording interesting Vector. If half of the people in this game are agnostic, why did you need to mention that the religion was heathen? Wouldn't being part of any religion, not just a heathen one, be a problem?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2009, 09:08:56 am
Good morning.

Dakarian, do you have some problem with niceness?  I thought you were the one who went down when faced with a little emotional gushing.

So you're acting differently.

So maybe you've converted to one of those heathen religions out thar.

I find your choice of wording interesting Vector. If half of the people in this game are agnostic, why did you need to mention that the religion was heathen? Wouldn't being part of any religion, not just a heathen one, be a problem?

All religions are heathen religions.  Seriously, haven't you heard that those people smoke chickens?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 09:14:25 am
Vector.. I heard about that and..it wasn't chickens they were smoking...

And you two didn't answer my question

*glare*
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2009, 09:23:12 am
Vector.. I heard about that and..it wasn't chickens they were smoking...

And you two didn't answer my question

*glare*

Working on it.  It doesn't help that I'm playing three Mafias simultaneously.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 26, 2009, 09:57:41 am
This game does seem really odd. Since the mafia seem to be better off converting to increase their numbers instead of just killing randomly, at least at the start of the game, it may be a good idea confirm myself quickly and hopefully, join one of the religions.

I don't affect the chances of any religion winning much so it seems like a bit of a waste of time killing me. Confirming myself does seem better than gambling every night about whether the killing roles decide to randomly attack me, believing that I'm a more important member of a religion, so I'm going to roleclaim now. I'm a moderator. Any other moderators claiming on the same day would increase our chances by quite a bit, thanks to not having to worry as much about becoming an atheist, so I hope they do consider it. I just hope I'm right about this and they let me survive.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2009, 10:00:25 am
Personally, I feel like it's like any other game of Mafia.  The religions are going to be trying to kill the other religions and flip the town.  All we have to do is find out who they are and act suitably agnostic, as usual.

Ultimately, though, I think that the main problem is that this game can end up unresolved, with the religions trading people every night.  My real hope is that we manage to finish this game without some kind of Happily Ever After scenario.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Kashyyk on August 26, 2009, 10:04:53 am
The game ends when there are no more townies.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2009, 10:08:06 am
And if the religious factions have equal numbers?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Kashyyk on August 26, 2009, 10:09:09 am
No one wins
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 10:18:14 am
Ahh the 'anti-Happy' is in.  Btw, if the Prophet is in, the religions can't trade people off: once one is picked up, they can't be reconverted till the prophet is dead.

It would make it very easy for us if the religions aim for converting rather than killing, I'll tell you that.  It highly depends on how the rest of the religions act.  The key is to try to get a read on how each of the religions wish to act.  Even though they may not want to show themselves, they way they play the day game will help show their intent.

So far, with 13 people, that can easily leave 6-9 religious.  Thus I believe if we can get most, if not all folks to speak up and show their goal we'll get a feel as to how dangerous this game can get.


Fakeedit: Kashyyk's comment about a possible 'no win' suddenly makes me think that staying townie might be best.  Even if the religions ruin each other, the 'Survive' goal will still give a win. 

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 26, 2009, 10:29:17 am
It looks like recruits want to survive anyway. I think only certain power roles gain the ability to win with their religion.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 10:40:13 am
@ Xegeth

Oh, you're right.  Nm the fear of conversion then.  Makes things easier to work with at least.


@ everyone

Yes I know most of the folks aren't in yet, but it means I have to set myself up decently since my stance can't change when everyone gets active (remember, I'm at work from 3pm to 2am and I can't always get to the comp before I sleep). 

Given that, I'll restate: I am looking for everyone to answer this question:

"Given that this game works very different from other games, how do YOU plan on winning this game?"

I'm looking for responses from these people:

ToonyMan
Mr.Person
RedWarrior0
Servant Corps
Bulborbish
Little
Pandarsenic
Cheeetar
OverlordFT
Eduren

"I don't know" or "I'll play with the flow" are not acceptable answers.  As I said, the worst possibility for agnostics is if the game flows randomly, since it'll lead to a greater chance of us dying.  We may not be a team here but we all want this to end soon while we still breath.  There's a few ways to try to tackle this thing and I want to hear from everyone on how they feel it might be best to do just that.

So get to answering.   
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: overlordFT on August 26, 2009, 10:45:30 am
Rooting out all the religons.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 26, 2009, 11:02:11 am
I plan on winning this by, hopefully, joining a strong religion and then voting how my religion leader wants me to.

Either that or just lurk to victory. Sounds scummy, but it's really the opposite. I don't want to get lynched, and I don't want to make enemies and get night-killed. It's the town that acts scummy in this game. Oh, the irony!

Vote Little. If you were a religion leader and could convert or do a night kill, which would you do and on whom?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 26, 2009, 11:23:16 am
Let's see.....no Sir Josh.  That means Pandarsenic!

If you were in a religion, would you decide to kill or convert?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 11:32:13 am
Toony.  Before you get to the craziness only you can provide, mind answering that question I gave out?

Unvote  Vote Toonyman

After I get a feel on how everyone sounds (and hopfully, get an idea on the religions' mentalities) I'll be a little less worried about lurkiness. 

Still need to reply:
ToonyMan
RedWarrior0
Servant Corps
Bulborbish
Little
Pandarsenic
Cheeetar
Eduren

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 26, 2009, 11:36:10 am
Oh, you have a question.   ???

Let me look....

Oh, how I would plan on winning?

Whatever religion I get converted to I'll probably help them out.  It'll cool.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 26, 2009, 11:36:34 am
It'll be cool.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 26, 2009, 11:44:24 am
If I were to be converted, I would vote how the religion suggests, as I don't want that religion's zealot trying to "keep me in line". Until then, I'll help hunt for killing roles because if 4 people die tonight, this is gonna be a short game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 26, 2009, 01:23:33 pm
Still need to reply:
Servant Corps
Bulborbish
Little
Pandarsenic
Cheeetar
Eduren


At this point though, 7 of the 13 people have posted.  I will like to note to you that I believe at least one of them is religious. 

Still, we need to hear from the rest.
Unvote

I'm out for work so it'll be silly to put a vote for someone that may reply.  For now I FOS those above and will go after those that choose not to reply. 

If you plan to lurk, you can lurk AFTERWARDS.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 26, 2009, 01:27:42 pm
ToonyMan, I must say, I sense that you have plenty of zeal, waiting to be exposed.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Servant Corps on August 26, 2009, 01:57:20 pm
Quote
"Given that this game works very different from other games, how do YOU plan on winning this game?"

1) Roleclaim my role: I'm the "Armchair Theologian". I'm basically the Super-Detective of this game, able to determie the religious leanings of two people, or how dedicated one person is to his religion.
2) Wait to get converted in the Night. When I get converted, my VC changes to "Religion Wins" rather than just "Survive". This means that I don't have to worry about getting killed and losing afterwards.
3) Work with said religion to help that religion wins.
4) If the religion I am a part of begins to lose, call for other people to try and convert me. Since I am immune to the effects of the Prophet, and I am able to choose if I want to be converted or not, I get to choose whatever my Victory Condition is. So, I have a chance to actually flee to the "other side" per se. And the friendly Zealot that is a part of each Religion would not be able to intimidate me, because, after all, I win when the Religion wins, not if I 'survive'.
5) If I get Nightkilled, pray to whatever Diety I currently believe in that my Religion gets to "wins" the game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 26, 2009, 02:28:07 pm
Vote Servant Corps for fun and prophet. *rimshot*

This seems like something of a survivor gamble, trying to go "Oh, ignore me, town!"
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Eduren on August 26, 2009, 03:10:49 pm
"Given that this game works very different from other games, how do YOU plan on winning this game?"

Try my hardest not to be converted. If I am, try my hardest not to be killed.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 26, 2009, 03:21:00 pm
Let's see.....no Sir Josh.  That means Pandarsenic!

If you were in a religion, would you decide to kill or convert?

Probably you. People always let you get away with stupid shit. Otherwise, kill whomever the other religions would want to convert.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 26, 2009, 03:23:46 pm
I find a great pride in doing things right!

Unvote.

Meh.  I vote Bulborbish!  He's a religion dude I know it!
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2009, 05:30:17 pm
I'm actually not at all sure how I'd play this, seeing as the usual scum seeking things aren't exactly what we're trying to do.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2009, 05:32:29 pm
And I'm going offline now, school.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 26, 2009, 05:39:29 pm
Well, since there seems to be a lot of claims so far, I shall claim as well!

I'm a troll. I have yet to troll anybody so far. I'm going to wait until closer to the end of the day before I start getting my trollin' on. Hopefully, I hit one of the night killers of a religion. I really hope I don't hit an e-evangelist. Then they'll be forced into doing a night kill. Remember, I would be useful in a religion, don't night kill me. Thanks!

Lemme draw a chart of who's claimed what so far and we'll go from there.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 26, 2009, 05:41:32 pm
I wish I was the troll.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: bulborbish on August 26, 2009, 06:06:19 pm
Hey people, finally came here

Daka, to win this game, I would most likely not lay low

In this game, you want to be part of the biggest religion, being a convert target is the best way to acheive this (as long as you don't get multi-converted)

Also Vote Toonyman, in the typical manner of a OMGUS vote. You never provided evidence on why I am a religious person, making me think you are a religious person trying to kill a random person, hoping to hit.

If you are religious, you are most likely the zealot or the e-evangilist, as a prophet would not take a bold risk like you did.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 26, 2009, 06:10:01 pm
It's a random vote.  You're over-reacting.  I keep my vote.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 26, 2009, 06:11:03 pm
If I weren't voting SC right now I'd be voting bulborish for his violent, fearful reaction.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 27, 2009, 02:47:18 am
I'll unvote and vote for bulborbish for his over-reaction. At the moment, he seems like the most likely person to be religious.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 27, 2009, 03:54:16 am
People who have not posted thier answer so far:

Little
Cheeetar



I'm glad this got people talking so far. 

For now, though, Vote Pandarsenic.  I didn't like your answer to toony's question.  Kill those the Religious want to convert?  That means you're killing townies.  That's far more violent than Bulb's posts.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2009, 06:03:49 am
My plan for winning the game? Stay low, wait for a dominant religion to come along and then try and get converted.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: overlordFT on August 27, 2009, 07:35:51 am
I'm a troll, though I have no idea who to flame.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 27, 2009, 01:43:32 pm
Mr.Person claims the same, can we have two roles?....let me check.

And I can't find it.   :P
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 27, 2009, 04:02:59 pm
People who have not posted thier answer so far:

Little
Cheeetar



I'm glad this got people talking so far. 

For now, though, Vote Pandarsenic.  I didn't like your answer to toony's question.  Kill those the Religious want to convert?  That means you're killing townies.  That's far more violent than Bulb's posts.
Uh, yeah. Dude.

He said "If you were in a religion."

I would want to foil other religions' attempts to bolster their numbers.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: bulborbish on August 27, 2009, 04:24:21 pm
Unvote

I'm removing my vote and explaining myself

1.The only reason I voted for Toony was because I thought that he was trying to lynch me when I was unclaimed and unposted. Because he told me it was a random ban, I unvoted

2. Of course I'm over reacting, my goal is to survive. Dieing day 1 isn't
really close to surviving, is it?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 27, 2009, 04:28:43 pm
Ok, here's a list of claims. If I've missed you or you want on this list, speak up now.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Taking off the claims, this leaves us with the following lynches:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

6 of these people are religious, is my guess.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 27, 2009, 04:32:15 pm
I'm an Agnostic.  I don't have any special abilities.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: bulborbish on August 27, 2009, 04:46:46 pm
I already claimed Agnostic too
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Servant Corps on August 27, 2009, 08:17:41 pm
Quote
This seems like something of a survivor gamble, trying to go "Oh, ignore me, town!"

You didn't say the same thing to Xength when he roleclaimed Moderator.

Anyway, anyone here can compile who's voting for who? I need to decide who to vote for today.

Xength: You claim to be harmless...but the Victory Condition of the Moderator is: "Ban at least three non-agnostic players -AND- Survive." This doesn't bode well for Agnostics who have been converted, willingly or not. If you get converted, you have to ban three players who belong to opposite religions, which doesn't bode well for Agnostics who happen to get converted into the "wrong" religion. So, hm, basically, how can we trust that you won't end up harming innocent Agnostics when trying to achieve your victory condition?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 27, 2009, 08:50:09 pm
Quote
This seems like something of a survivor gamble, trying to go "Oh, ignore me, town!"

You didn't say the same thing to Xength when he roleclaimed Moderator.

Anyway, anyone here can compile who's voting for who? I need to decide who to vote for today.

Xength: You claim to be harmless...but the Victory Condition of the Moderator is: "Ban at least three non-agnostic players -AND- Survive." This doesn't bode well for Agnostics who have been converted, willingly or not. If you get converted, you have to ban three players who belong to opposite religions, which doesn't bode well for Agnostics who happen to get converted into the "wrong" religion. So, hm, basically, how can we trust that you won't end up harming innocent Agnostics when trying to achieve your victory condition?

This sounds like a religious leader trying to get rid of a threat. Vote Servant Corps.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Servant Corps on August 27, 2009, 08:58:34 pm
If I wanted to get rid of him, I would have voted for him, Mr. Person. As it stands, I only want to question Xength.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 27, 2009, 09:05:44 pm
If I wanted to get rid of him, I would have voted for him, Mr. Person. As it stands, I only want to question Xength.

The best part? Now you've typo'd Xegeth's name. Are you in a hurry?

What's there to question? He's claimed his role, unless you think he's lying about it. Possible, but a really bad move considering he can be proven a moderator by being hard to lynch.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Vector on August 27, 2009, 09:06:15 pm
Unfortunately, I'm going to be unable to continue playing this game due to unforeseen difficulties with classwork.  I am really sorry for the short notice.  As you may have seen, though, I don't really have the time to dedicate to Mafia right now.

Please accept my deepest apologies, and I hope to return at some point in the distant future.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Servant Corps on August 27, 2009, 09:14:40 pm
The best part? Now you've typo'd Xegeth's name. Are you in a hurry?

What's there to question? He's claimed his role, unless you think he's lying about it. Possible, but a really bad move considering he can be proven a moderator by being hard to lynch.

Yes, I'm in a hurry. And yes he claimed his role, and no I don't think he's lying. I do want to bring up the important fact that, unlike most of the Agnostics out there, he has an additional victory condition he has to fulfill. And that is what I am questioning him about.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 28, 2009, 01:01:27 am
Given that there's 6 or 9 dedicated religious people out there, the mod has plenty of room to avoid hitting any innocents. 

As for the chance of a double role.. it depends.  My original style encouraged it (even to the point of all of the townies being the same power role).  You can go crazy with the townie powers here since we're mostly made to be cover for the religions as well as a feeding ground.

Meanwhile, people keep wishing to join the biggest group'.  However, none of them are bigger than the other at the moment and there's either 2 or 3 of them around.  1/3 chance of getting converted into the losing religion and, even if you do join the right now, you still have 2 zealots and a possible merc gunning for you.  As such, while I don't hate the religious groups overall, I'm content to let them duke it out and to leave me out of it.

As for the vote on Pan, the 'if you were religious' question gave him the option of converting or killing.  He chose to kill.  Even in choosing to kill, he opted to choose killing converts (aka, ex Townies) instead of killing the main worshipers. 

Given that, I believe he's accidentally telegraphed his role.  There's at least 2 killing roles here, possibly more, and, while they would have no reason to go after a townie NOW, once the converts start they may get trigger happy.

A question, Pan.  Why do you feel that killing is the better option for the Religious than converting?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 28, 2009, 01:17:08 am
Men, forgot this part:

Unofficial vote count:
Dakarian: Vector
Little: Mr Person
Pandarsenic: Dakarian
Toonyman: RedWarrior0
Servant Corps: Pandarsenic
Bulborbish: Toonyman, Xegeth

Note: Mr Person tried to vote Servant Corps but didn't Unvote first
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 28, 2009, 01:30:50 am
If we look at the role claims so far, we already have four power role claims. That just leaves 9 people to choose between, two of which have claimed agnostic and can be confirmed by the theologian if needed. If both are innocent, we have 7 people and we know that we have 6 religious roles, split into either two or three groups. I suggest that we go for people within that group first. Of course, if there have been lies we can expect that it won't be nearly as easy to win.

I don't really have a reason to go for converted agnostics when I can just go for the main power roles. All my win condition means is that I'll refuse to ally with a religion that is willing to use night kills, otherwise the game has a chance of ending too quickly and leaving me without a chance of winning.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 28, 2009, 01:37:40 am
We could just no lynch. There's no real pressing need to lynch right now. What it's going to come down to is the armchair theologian getting converted. The side with him will be checking everybody for a religion and probably just night-killing anybody found to be religious. The other sides will be trying to nab people for their side. For now, I'll unvote and vote for a no lynch. It's in my best interests to lynch, but I'd be willing to hold off until the next day to lynch. We'll see what happens during the night and who joins a new religion.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Xegeth on August 28, 2009, 01:49:07 am
I'd agree with a no lynch but unfortunately I need to lynch every day to give myself a decent chance of winning. At the moment my vote contradicts what I said so I'm going to change my vote to Pandarsenic.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 28, 2009, 01:50:11 am
Given that there's 6 or 9 dedicated religious people out there, the mod has plenty of room to avoid hitting any innocents. 

As for the chance of a double role.. it depends.  My original style encouraged it (even to the point of all of the townies being the same power role).  You can go crazy with the townie powers here since we're mostly made to be cover for the religions as well as a feeding ground.

Meanwhile, people keep wishing to join the biggest group'.  However, none of them are bigger than the other at the moment and there's either 2 or 3 of them around.  1/3 chance of getting converted into the losing religion and, even if you do join the right now, you still have 2 zealots and a possible merc gunning for you.  As such, while I don't hate the religious groups overall, I'm content to let them duke it out and to leave me out of it.

As for the vote on Pan, the 'if you were religious' question gave him the option of converting or killing.  He chose to kill.  Even in choosing to kill, he opted to choose killing converts (aka, ex Townies) instead of killing the main worshipers. 

Given that, I believe he's accidentally telegraphed his role.  There's at least 2 killing roles here, possibly more, and, while they would have no reason to go after a townie NOW, once the converts start they may get trigger happy.

A question, Pan.  Why do you feel that killing is the better option for the Religious than converting?
Because in truth, all the religions need is to be the last one standing, and they're better able to undermine each others' efforts by killing.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 28, 2009, 09:51:12 am
Typical runs that I've done (no cool program: just a spreadsheet and Random.com) left the game ending at 3-4 days, even if the religions get to killing.  As such, your best bet is as you say: ban a religious each day.

Besides, nolynch means we're stretching the game out needlessly.  It's sort of a reverse mafia: the town wants things to end quickly while the 'mafia' wants to drag things out to better aim their night actions. 

Best way to remove the danger they offer is to remove their fangs: no zealots, no deaths.  The religious can still recruit to win the game so there's no reason to wipe them out. 
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Servant Corps on August 28, 2009, 12:48:20 pm
Quote
If we look at the role claims so far, we already have four power role claims. That just leaves 9 people to choose between, two of which have claimed agnostic and can be confirmed by the theologian if needed. If both are innocent, we have 7 people and we know that we have 6 religious roles, split into either two or three groups. I suggest that we go for people within that group first. Of course, if there have been lies we can expect that it won't be nearly as easy to win.

I don't really have a reason to go for converted agnostics when I can just go for the main power roles. All my win condition means is that I'll refuse to ally with a religion that is willing to use night kills, otherwise the game has a chance of ending too quickly and leaving me without a chance of winning.

That's all I needed to here. Thanks. I also do like dakarian's reasoning, and believe that Zealots are the main obstcale to agonistcs desiring a conversion, so I'll vote for Pandarsenic.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Mr.Person on August 28, 2009, 01:08:40 pm
Don't vote Pandarsenic, guys. I've already trolled him, he's harmless.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on August 28, 2009, 01:20:02 pm
I'll think about it if there's someone better to target.  If that's one zealot, there's at least one more floating around and possibly two.

Perhaps we need moar chatter. 

For example: Does anyone else want to claim Armchair Theologian? 
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 28, 2009, 03:42:43 pm
Dakarian, someone already did claim Armchair Theologian.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Kashyyk on August 28, 2009, 04:14:04 pm
Votes:

Dakarian: Vector
Little: Mr.Person
ToonyMan: RedWarrior0
servant: Pandarsenic
Bulborbish: ToonyMan
Pandarsenic: Dakarian, Xegeth, Servant Corps
No Lynch: Mr.Person

If this is wrong, tell me. People in red will be lynched if the votes do not change.

Many people saw Mr.Person's recent post before it was deleted by the admin, It spoke of how Pandarsenic was a religious nutcase and that he ought to be locked up. This was said in a much ruder and violent context. Everyone can only imagine at the effort he will put into countering this latest attempt at Trolling.

Pandarsenic, you can not action tonight.

Day finishes at 17:00 tomorrow (I have reduced it by an hour to fit better in my time table.)
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Mr.Person on August 28, 2009, 04:21:36 pm
Unvote and vote Bulborbish. Gotta vote someone, right?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: bulborbish on August 28, 2009, 04:26:25 pm
Vote: Dakarian, because I should vote.

Daka, no offence, just a random ban.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 28, 2009, 07:21:57 pm
I'll join in on Dakarian, I think.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on August 29, 2009, 09:24:39 am
1. I wanted to check if someone ELSE wanted to claim Theo.. I'm tempted to think that there would be only one of them given it's like a double cop. 

2. Unvote Vote Bulborbish

I see your random vote and raise you a OMGUS and a "somewhat doubting that you are agnostic".

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Xegeth on August 29, 2009, 09:41:20 am
I'll unvote and vote for Bulbordish because I need to vote for the person who gets lynched.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: bulborbish on August 29, 2009, 12:51:29 pm
Daka, no offense, I was just voting just so people don't accuse me of lurking

Pardarsenic probably was jumping on a bandwagon he belived was happening to save himself, so Unvote Vote Pardarsenic

Does anyone else see that Pardar is trying to bandwagon to safety? That instead of defending himself, he joins a bandwagon(which, I, admittedly, started by voting you daka, making you seem like a possible target). It seems to me that he is more likely religious than me(based on actions)
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on August 29, 2009, 01:18:03 pm
Pand's been trolled though (trippy how you trolls are so visible).  He could still be religious, but for now we can rest a bit.  If he's a zealot it'll be one more convert and one less kill (which, to many, is a Very Good Thing).

As for you, I think I know a way to solve two possible issues:

Overlord, Flame Xegeth to a crisp.   

If Xegeth is Agnostic, then there's no harm done since he has no role (it would be very bad to hit a townie power role or one of the evangalists: the latter because a religion that can't recruit WILL kill). 

Meanwhile, it proves that confirms Overlord is a Troll as well.  Two trolls will be very nice to have, I'm willing to think.

Now if there were ways to confirm some of the other roles.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Xegeth on August 29, 2009, 01:26:37 pm
I've just been wondering, if I had the most votes, would the person who was second be lynched or would it be a no-lynch, assuming an admin doesn't get involved. If we would get a lynch it confirms without a doubt that I'm not lying. If we wouldn't get one though, I obviously would oppose it. Maybe a double lynch unless that would be disallowed too? In normal circumstances I do oppose double lynches though. They reduce the game length.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on August 29, 2009, 01:54:56 pm
You're right!  What's more, the Admin would NOT want to Ban the mod since the mod is (currently) a town role so they'd stay out of it.

Hey Host!  What'll happen if we try to lynch the mod without the Admin?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: bulborbish on August 29, 2009, 03:20:22 pm
Just a question... What if Pandar is a Prophet? If he is prophet, from what I understand, It wouldn't matter if he got trolled, he has no converts to protect from conversion

Another thing, which is the best vote IYO daka and Xegeth, and why?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Xegeth on August 29, 2009, 03:47:07 pm
In my opinion, the best target is a zealot to prevent night kills and the second best would be a prophet because they are the least useful of the three main religious roles.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: bulborbish on August 29, 2009, 04:07:11 pm
Xegeth, I was referring to players right now, It is generally understood the roles that should be killed.

Last post for the day, so I will say what is on my mind

I admit that the actions I have done were suspitious, yet pale in comparison to the actions of Pandar.
I admit that my words make me a prime ban subject, yet I was trying to survive, like all other agnostics.
I admit that I have led to the current situation in the game, yet I hope that you reconize that Pandar is a more reasonable vote than me.

Xegeth, Daka, My fate is in your hands.

See you tomorrow... I hope.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Servant Corps on August 29, 2009, 06:14:30 pm
bulborbish, your random vote makes you pretty much supsicious. And giving up...is that a scumtell or a newbtell? Hard to say. Still...I'm keeping my vote on Pandarsenic, because he is a greater threat.

Quote
Pand's been trolled though (trippy how you trolls are so visible).  He could still be religious, but for now we can rest a bit.

For only one night. Yippe. Every day, Pandarsenic needs to get trolled just to make sure that he doesn't do anything, which pretty much stops one religious person at the cost of letting all the other religious roles roam free (including the zealots). We should lynch Pandarsenic today, so that tomorrow, the trolls can look for other threats to neturalize.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Mr.Person on August 29, 2009, 06:39:43 pm
bulborbish, your random vote makes you pretty much supsicious. And giving up...is that a scumtell or a newbtell? Hard to say. Still...I'm keeping my vote on Pandarsenic, because he is a greater threat.

Quote
Pand's been trolled though (trippy how you trolls are so visible).  He could still be religious, but for now we can rest a bit.

For only one night. Yippe. Every day, Pandarsenic needs to get trolled just to make sure that he doesn't do anything, which pretty much stops one religious person at the cost of letting all the other religious roles roam free (including the zealots). We should lynch Pandarsenic today, so that tomorrow, the trolls can look for other threats to neturalize.

I don't think you understand what the trolling means. He can't actions tonight. LYNCH SOMEBODY ELSE. We can lynch Pandarsenic tomorrow, if it comes to that, but for now, we should lynch somebody else to get them out of the game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 29, 2009, 06:45:42 pm
I'm not a threat. I'm not a prophet. I'm not religious.


...

That's all I needed to here. Thanks. I also do like dakarian's reasoning, and believe that Zealots are the main obstcale to agonistcs desiring a conversion, so I'll vote for Pandarsenic.

OH HEY I DIDN'T SEE THAT OMGUS THERE.

Daka, no offense, I was just voting just so people don't accuse me of lurking
Scum-logic.
Pardarsenic probably was jumping on a bandwagon he belived was happening to save himself, so Unvote Vote Pardarsenic

Does anyone else see that Pardar is trying to bandwagon to safety? That instead of defending himself, he joins a bandwagon(which, I, admittedly, started by voting you daka, making you seem like a possible target). It seems to me that he is more likely religious than me(based on actions)
You're all voting for me because I consider the religions' most important task to be systematic annihilation of other religions, particularly the Prophet and the Zealot so they can safely convert anyone. I'll probably be nightkilled for that anyway, Bay12 d00dz loving irony as much as they do.

There's nothing to defend. You wanted an honest opinion. I gave you one. It doesn't matter what I think the religions should do, since they won't listen to me anyway. And if you can all not yell at me for OMGUSing, I'll point back to:
If I weren't voting SC right now I'd be voting bulborish for his violent, fearful reaction.

Since I'm no longer voting for SC, I'll unvote Dakarian at bulborish's request.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on August 29, 2009, 07:21:43 pm
A few things to note:

1. The true enemy to the town are the zealots.  Only the merc truly desires to kill anyone else and the mod just wants to ban out any three of them.  The Prophet could show themselves to any other towny and shouldn't get any worse treatment than Para Alien Survivor.

Heh, the Evan would get BETTER treatment since some of the agnostics are looking for churches to join.  Let's not play jokes now: there is no true 'town' side so there's no true reason for agnostics to want to avoid conversion, except to avoid ending up on the losing religion or dying somehow.

The zealots, however, are shoot-to-kill. 


@ Servant.  If we have two trolls then we can keep two zealots down while we remove the third.  Who do the trolls really need to attack OTHER then them?  We're not anti-religious.. just anti-dying.

Well.. some of us.  A good dose of this discussion is being tinted by people with VERY GOOD reasons to kill each other. 

Bulb, I don't believe you're going to be banned this day.  Why? 

Hey Overlord.  Ignore what I said earlier.  Flame Bulb.

Thus if you get trolled, you'll be Pandarsenic and safe either way.

If you DON'T get trolled.. someone was LYING about their role and a much worse threat.

UnVote   Vote OverlordFT

Aka, Troll someone or be banned!


If Bulb gets trolled then I'm willing to try out banning Xegeth.  If he's a mod he won't die anyway.  We just need to learn just what would happen instead (2nd highest gets banned... no ban.. ext..)

Btw, if bulb

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: ToonyMan on August 29, 2009, 07:31:06 pm
Agreed.

Unvote.  Vote overlordFT.

I'll unvote overlordFT when he trolls Bulborbish, this helps us two ways.

1.  We find out if overlordFT is a troll.

2.  Bulborbish is harmless if he is a zealot (I'm hoping).
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 29, 2009, 07:54:56 pm
Heh, the Evan would get BETTER treatment since some of the agnostics are looking for churches to join.  Let's not play jokes now: there is no true 'town' side so there's no true reason for agnostics to want to avoid conversion, except to avoid ending up on the losing religion or dying somehow.
My mind = Blown

I never thought of it in that way before.

Unvote, vote OverlordFT
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Mr.Person on August 29, 2009, 10:24:39 pm
Actually, yes. If we wouldn't be converted, I would recommend the evangelists all claim to the confirmed trolls so they don't get trolled. If we all agree'd not to tell or ask the trolls about the other evangelists, it would work. Sadly, I don't think it would wind up working that way, so that's a no go.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Kashyyk on August 30, 2009, 06:09:14 am
Alright, sorry for the day turn delay.

You have as long as it takes for me to count up the votes and think of some good banning flavour to change your minds.

Also, If a mod or admin has the highest number of votes but can not be banned, then the next viable person will be.

I will not show in the votes the total votes strength, you have to work that out for yourself.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Xegeth on August 30, 2009, 06:25:16 am
Unvote, vote OverlordFT.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia -Night 1 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Kashyyk on August 30, 2009, 06:41:14 am
Votes:

Dakarian: Vector
ToonyMan: RedWarrior0
Bulborbish: Mr.Person
Pandarsenic: Servant Corps, Bulborbish
OverlordFT: Dakarian, ToonyMan, Pandarsenic, Xegeth

At the same moment, everyone recieves an anonymous PM, saying:

"OverlordFT has been eternally banned from this forum for suspected religious activities. His personal information will be visible for the next hour only, before being deleted.
Thank you,
The Server"

Almost instantaneously, you all check OverlordFT's profile, showingthat he was also a member of various other forums, where he has been subsequently banned from for being a Troll
.

Day one is over, please give me your night actions.

Night one will (hopefully) end on Tuesday at 15:00
If I've missed anything, pm me.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Kashyyk on August 31, 2009, 04:31:33 pm
The next morning, the argument continues as normal. However, you realise that Servant Corps is not a part of it. His profile explains why.

It is littered with religious grafitti exclaiming how the heretic Zealot Servant Corps will no longer be a part of this forum.

His account is later deleted.


You have to find this religious menace!

Day 2 will end at approx 15:00 Saturday
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 31, 2009, 04:54:45 pm
Vote Servant Corps for fun and prophet. *rimshot*

This seems like something of a survivor gamble, trying to go "Oh, ignore me, town!"

I am amazing. Just for reference.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Cheeetar on August 31, 2009, 05:22:25 pm
Huh. So this means there are two zealots left, or is a religion made up randomly of the religious power roles?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Pandarsenic on August 31, 2009, 05:31:41 pm
So if I'm understanding the nuances of Religious "Mafia" vs. any other Mafia ever, those converted to the religion Servant Corps was should now rat out their prophet so they can be converted to a side that has a chance, right?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on September 01, 2009, 01:47:10 am
Wow.. a direct hit. 

There can't be only one religion since the game is actually Religion vs Religion.  We're just the Trees of the Forest while the 'mafias' play paint ball with each other. 

One zealot killed and that's it, in a game with up to 3 zealots and a possible merc.  A few notes:

A few people were converted.  If there's a merc, it might be 3 conversion attempts.  If no merc, there's 1 or 2. 

Wild guess: the folks that confirmed themselves were the targets.  Pearson is either religious now or Athiest. 

Also note: Theo outed himself, so he should be free to speak his mind about his investigations. 

As for the religion that lost their zealot.. if they succeeded to recruit they may still try to hold on, especially if the merc is about.  There's also the question of whether there's 2 or 3 religions in all. 

Oh well.  Tomorrow I'll see what I can scan up. 
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: ToonyMan on September 01, 2009, 05:39:35 am
So Servant Corps lied, that was pretty bold.  Anyway, let's go through with people who can not be zealots.

1.ToonyMan
2.Mr.Person - Troll - T, trolled Pandarsenic, can not be zealot.
3.RedWarrior0
OUT 4.Servant Corps - Zealot - R - Deleted.
5.Bulborbish
6.Little
7.Pandarsenic - Trolled Day 1, could not be a zealot.
8.Cheeetar
9.Xegeth
10.Dakarian
OUT 11.OverlordFT - Troll - T - Banned Day 1
12.Vector
13.Eduren

Did I miss anyone?  We should have Mr.Person troll one of us.  Also, if there really is an Armchair Theologian, come out and share your findings, they would be most helpful, unless you only found agnostics.  Then PM them and make contact.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: ToonyMan on September 01, 2009, 05:45:38 am
Wait wait wait, they could of been converted, agh.  Or the Armchair Theologian could have been converted if there is one!  *sigh*
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on September 01, 2009, 06:54:52 am
You see now why I was so pushy to get everyone going day 1.  Now the uglies begin for day 2 as we need to piece together who converted who.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Xegeth on September 01, 2009, 07:28:24 am
I'm not sure who to vote at the moment but I'd say either ToonyMan or Bulbordish based on their behaviour. I'll vote Bulbordish for now. I think I'll probably just end up voting for whoever has the most votes on Saturday though.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Kashyyk on September 01, 2009, 01:19:05 pm
votes:

Bulborbish: Xegeth
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: bulborbish on September 01, 2009, 04:30:26 pm
Hey guys.

1.The reason I gave that long post was because I HAD TO STOP USING THE COMPUTER. I was not giving up.
2. Xegeth, I wonder why you voted for me immediately. Pandar was trolled and we have a religious night kill. We can assume the religions are smart enough not to kill Night 1, because they need converts, namely power roles. Pandar, we can logically deduce, is a religious, namely E-Evangilist

Vote: Pandarsenic

3. Who is to say you are not also religious? If you are converted, It wouldn't be by Pandar, and you would benefit from lynching Pandar. Either way, Pandar would be the most logical vote for you.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Mr.Person on September 01, 2009, 04:37:36 pm
It could also be another religion that decided to nightkill just for the WIFOM. I'm inclined to let the other religions do the kill as they please. Specifically, I know who would make a good merc target!
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Eduren on September 01, 2009, 04:39:18 pm
2. Xegeth, I wonder why you voted for me immediately. Pandar was trolled and we have a religious night kill. We can assume the religions are smart enough not to kill Night 1, because they need converts, namely power roles. Pandar, we can logically deduce, is a religious, namely E-Evangilist

Vote: Pandarsenic

Could you explain this logic of yours. Why does Pandar being trolled mean that he is the evangelist?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Mr.Person on September 01, 2009, 04:42:30 pm
It could also be another religion that decided to nightkill just for the WIFOM. I'm inclined to let the other religions do the kill as they please. Specifically, I know who would make a good merc target!

Or hell, that could be the merc target. Vote Xegeth.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2009, 04:59:14 pm
Hey guys.

1.The reason I gave that long post was because I HAD TO STOP USING THE COMPUTER. I was not giving up.
2. Xegeth, I wonder why you voted for me immediately. Pandar was trolled and we have a religious night kill. We can assume the religions are smart enough not to kill Night 1, because they need converts, namely power roles. Pandar, we can logically deduce, is a religious, namely E-Evangilist

Vote: Pandarsenic

3. Who is to say you are not also religious? If you are converted, It wouldn't be by Pandar, and you would benefit from lynching Pandar. Either way, Pandar would be the most logical vote for you.

That's assuming that there is no mercenary hacker.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 01, 2009, 05:49:39 pm
Hey guys.

1.The reason I gave that long post was because I HAD TO STOP USING THE COMPUTER. I was not giving up.
2. Xegeth, I wonder why you voted for me immediately. Pandar was trolled and we have a religious night kill. We can assume the religions are smart enough not to kill Night 1, because they need converts, namely power roles. Pandar, we can logically deduce, is a religious, namely E-Evangilist

Vote: Pandarsenic

3. Who is to say you are not also religious? If you are converted, It wouldn't be by Pandar, and you would benefit from lynching Pandar. Either way, Pandar would be the most logical vote for you.
That, uh.

That makes no sense at all. And as much as I hate to OMGUS, and I know everyone is going to scream OMGUS over it, I have to vote bulborish on suspicion of him being an angry E-vangelist, Prophet, or Convert to a now-doomed religion.

Bulborish, if you're a convert, say so now so we can unvote you and (hopefully) a less-fail religion can pick you up.

Bulborish, I just realized that even if you aren't a convert, you'll say you are anyway just to drag things out.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Frelock on September 01, 2009, 08:05:22 pm
Kashyyk, I saw your ad in the replacements thread, and would like to replace vector.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: dakarian on September 02, 2009, 12:43:57 am
Gotta make this quick:

Before we go kill off the front talkers (again) perhaps we should take a look at the lurkers.  I'm thinking that most of the religious are hiding to avoid notice.  Perhaps we need to shake them up a bit.

When I get the chance, I'll check to see who those people are.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Xegeth on September 02, 2009, 01:38:08 am
Bulbordish, if you are right about Pandarsenic, why would we force the religion to night kill every night? Also, I voted for you because you were a popular target yesterday and Pandarsenic is less likely to be a zealot. I do like dakarian's idea though.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 02, 2009, 03:04:53 am
Also, Bulborish, if you kill a religion's E-vangelist, you force that religion to start killing. That's the last thing any of us wants.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: dakarian on September 02, 2009, 03:16:18 am
Just realized something that scared me:

Quote
"Given that this game works very different from other games, how do YOU plan on winning this game?"

1) Roleclaim my role: I'm the "Armchair Theologian". I'm basically the Super-Detective of this game, able to determie the religious leanings of two people, or how dedicated one person is to his religion.
2) Wait to get converted in the Night. When I get converted, my VC changes to "Religion Wins" rather than just "Survive". This means that I don't have to worry about getting killed and losing afterwards.
3) Work with said religion to help that religion wins.
4) If the religion I am a part of begins to lose, call for other people to try and convert me. Since I am immune to the effects of the Prophet, and I am able to choose if I want to be converted or not, I get to choose whatever my Victory Condition is. So, I have a chance to actually flee to the "other side" per se. And the friendly Zealot that is a part of each Religion would not be able to intimidate me, because, after all, I win when the Religion wins, not if I 'survive'.
5) If I get Nightkilled, pray to whatever Diety I currently believe in that my Religion gets to "wins" the game.

Reason I posted this: why was he killed?

No, don't go "he's the zealot."  He claimed Armchair.  No one counterclaimed (and armchair was a confirmed town Day 1).  When the rival group targeted him, they did so using only the information offered here and in possible PMs. 

So either there was something there that gave off a scumtell (zealot= mafia in all essence so the old way of scumhunting works) or the religion decided to off a towny.


That bothers me greatly for many reasons.

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement Requested
Post by: Mr.Person on September 02, 2009, 03:33:04 am
I forgot he claimed that. Shoot. I'm starting to think Pandarsenic is an e-evangilist. In any case, we shouldn't lynch him, that's for sure.

But yes, the killing of a townie thing does scare me too. If I wind up dead, I'm going to be pissed, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 1 begins.
Post by: Eduren on September 02, 2009, 04:41:51 am
Just realized something that scared me:

Quote
"Given that this game works very different from other games, how do YOU plan on winning this game?"

1) Roleclaim my role: I'm the "Armchair Theologian". I'm basically the Super-Detective of this game, able to determie the religious leanings of two people, or how dedicated one person is to his religion.
2) Wait to get converted in the Night. When I get converted, my VC changes to "Religion Wins" rather than just "Survive". This means that I don't have to worry about getting killed and losing afterwards.
3) Work with said religion to help that religion wins.
4) If the religion I am a part of begins to lose, call for other people to try and convert me. Since I am immune to the effects of the Prophet, and I am able to choose if I want to be converted or not, I get to choose whatever my Victory Condition is. So, I have a chance to actually flee to the "other side" per se. And the friendly Zealot that is a part of each Religion would not be able to intimidate me, because, after all, I win when the Religion wins, not if I 'survive'.
5) If I get Nightkilled, pray to whatever Diety I currently believe in that my Religion gets to "wins" the game.

Reason I posted this: why was he killed?

No, don't go "he's the zealot."  He claimed Armchair.  No one counterclaimed (and armchair was a confirmed town Day 1).  When the rival group targeted him, they did so using only the information offered here and in possible PMs. 

So either there was something there that gave off a scumtell (zealot= mafia in all essence so the old way of scumhunting works) or the religion decided to off a towny.


That bothers me greatly for many reasons.



He was an obvious convert target and since one of the religions couldn't convert that night (assuming Mr. Person is an Evangelist), they decided that if they couldn't have Theo nobody could have him.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: dakarian on September 02, 2009, 07:55:40 am
How can Person be an Evan?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: Eduren on September 02, 2009, 02:45:17 pm
Why else would a religion kill on the first night? Unless, like you said, there was a subtle scumtell, the only reason for a religion to kill first night is if they could not convert.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: ToonyMan on September 02, 2009, 02:56:29 pm
I bet a religion told the Merc to kill.

Look at the Merc's role:

    * Mercenary Hacker
       Belief: Atheist (May not be converted)
       Rules: If in play, religion factions are given the option to ask the merc (through the host) to kill a single target at night.  That night, the merc may choose to carry out one such request (if more than one is made, the mercenary may choose which to carry out).
       Victory: All Religions reduced to at most one core power role (Zealot, Prophet, or E-Evangelist). When this occurs, the Merc is removed from the game.

If the Merc agrees to the request, then the religions could of converted.  Although, thinking about it I don't think the Merc would do such a thing, just a possibility I'm spitting out.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: Eduren on September 02, 2009, 03:25:46 pm
Are we going to assume that there is a merc?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: Frelock on September 02, 2009, 04:17:15 pm
Hi everyone.  Kashyyk is letting me take over for Vector.  This mafia appears to have been very interesting thus far.  My thoughts:

1. There may or may not be a merc.  There also may be 2 or 3 religions.  We really have no idea unless we get quite a few night-kills happening at the same time, which seems unlikely due to the attractiveness of converting rather than killing.

2. It's obvious SC was laying a trap for the other religions by claiming an extremely useful power role, in the hopes that they would attempt to convert him, and lose their Evangelist in the process.

3. SC's death is extremely interesting.  It means that a religion guessed correctly, or were trying to get rid of a townie power role.  Looking back at SC's posts, there isn't much.  What there is, though, is a continued attack on Pandarsenic.  Unless it was an extremely elaborate bus, I'm guessing that Panda is not on the same team as SC.  It's quite possible that he assumed SC would continue his attacks, and thus took him out.

4. Panda becomes even more interesting due to this quote:
So if I'm understanding the nuances of Religious "Mafia" vs. any other Mafia ever, those converted to the religion Servant Corps was should now rat out their prophet so they can be converted to a side that has a chance, right?
Panda, could you say anything that would make you look more religious?  You guessed right, and now you're gloating about it.  You think you have this thing won.

5. However, even though I'm decently certain that Panda is scum, this isn't an ordinary mafia.  Just because Panda is religious doesn't mean it's a good idea to lynch him.  I think that it's quite possible that bulborbish is correct; Panda is an Evangelist who was blocked, and therefore couldn't convert.  That religion was therefore forced to kill.  If this is the case, then banning Panda would be the worst idea for townies, as we would effectively make that religion's zealot an SK.  However, it's also possible that Panda is a zealot, and after being blocked, due partially to SC's accusations (though mostly it was his own fault in saying he'd rather kill than convert, which lends more evidence to him being on the killing side), his religion decided to get "vengeance" by killing SC via the merc.

What are other people's thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: bulborbish on September 02, 2009, 04:29:33 pm
My Logic:
Because we have 1 night kill and Pandar was trolled, we can assume that, because no religion would not kill night 1 (to try and get an advantage), Pandar is an E-Evangilist

Assumptions on my Part:
There is 2 Religions
There is no Mercenery Hacker(4 Kills required. Game would be to short for them to stand a chance of winning)

If you don't trust me, then troll me. It seems obvious that Pandar is E-Evangilist, and better a Convert then a kill.

Unvote Pandarsenic, I won't be going after E-Evangilists for the un-converted (such as me).

Pandar, I don't care that you are "OMGUS" voting. You are a Person that has as much right to live as me. We should be looking for the other Zealot instead of killing you.

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 02, 2009, 09:14:26 pm
The simple fact, Frelock, is whether I'm religious or not, it's a terrible idea to lynch me.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2 - Replacement found!!
Post by: dakarian on September 03, 2009, 01:25:50 am
First off, this is WITHOUT doing a deep scan.  I'll try for one tomarrow.

I wouldn't mind Warrior coming out to say something, if only to get everyone up and talking.


Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kashyyk on September 03, 2009, 03:11:10 am
votes:

Bulborbish: Xegeth, Pandarsenic
Xegeth: Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: Eduren

Day will end today at 15:00, unless I see at least five votes for a day lengthening.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Eduren on September 03, 2009, 03:18:48 am
Redwarrior0, it really would be in your best interest to contribute to the conversation.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Xegeth on September 03, 2009, 07:18:59 am
Unvote. I think I'm going to go with dakarian's idea of lynching lurkers and go for Redwarrior0.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: dakarian on September 03, 2009, 08:32:38 am
still pre-scan.

Note the focus is to get people active, although if it leads to a lynch then that's fine if no one else looks worse. 

Money = mouth   
Vote Warrior

The idea behind it is two-fold:

1. Since there's more reason for the religious to hide (due to the risk of both town bans and night kills) and less reason for them to talk (they don't NEED to ban townies) then the push to hide is greater. 

2. It'll get not only the lurkers talking by being pressed, but also the active talking more since they are doing the pushing.  Between all that, something will give. 


It's not just pro-town, but, oddly enough, pro-religion.  We not only look for the risks to ourselves but also out the other religious so that they can better target themselves. 

aka: I'd rather kill a zealot, but if I can't, I can give the zealot a nice non-agnostic target. 

So it's a win for everyone...but the ones that die.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheeetar on September 03, 2009, 08:55:56 am
This just looks way too complex. I'll post a bigger post later, but I'm going off now.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kashyyk on September 03, 2009, 03:07:44 pm
votes:

Bulborbish: Pandarsenic
Xegeth:   Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: Eduren, Xegeth, Dakarian

The day will end in one hour from now.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Kashyyk on September 03, 2009, 04:14:07 pm
votes:

Bulborbish: Pandarsenic
Xegeth:   Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: Eduren, Xegeth, Dakarian


As the day ends, once again everyone recieves the Servers PM, this time about RedWarrior0. You all check his Profile page, where you find a link to website proclaiming that RedWarrior0 has been touched by God and must protect God's true followers from the words of the Heretic. It would appear that he was a Prophet.

Night 2 will end Monday 15:00.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Kashyyk on September 04, 2009, 10:43:33 am
Just to let people know, if only one religion is left it falls down to normal mafia rules.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Kashyyk on September 04, 2009, 12:08:57 pm
Day 3

Everyone returns to the forum expecting another hacked account, but apparently there was none. You still  know that there are still at least one religion out there though, so you must continue.

The Day has started early due to all Night actions having been sent in.

It will end on Tuesday at 15:00
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Xegeth on September 04, 2009, 03:11:14 pm
Once again I'm going to vote for bulborbish. During day 2, bulborbish claimed that he was the E-Evangelist that converted me. The fact that I was able to be converted again shows that both of the dead religious power roles were part of his religion. This should mean that there are no consequences to his lynch unless he was lying to me. After his lynch, if he was telling the truth, we should probably not lynch again and just depend on the remaining religion to convert every night. That way, no one else will lose.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 04, 2009, 03:44:07 pm
Vote bulborish. That's change religion I can depend on.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Frelock on September 04, 2009, 04:23:24 pm
During day 2, bulborbish claimed that he was the E-Evangelist that converted me. The fact that I was able to be converted again shows that both of the dead religious power roles were part of his religion.

Xegeth,two things:
1) How do you know that both religious roles were killed from the same group?  Obviously, if bulborbish is telling the truth, then Redwarrior and bulborbish are on the same team.  However, that does not imply that Servant Corps was also a part of that religion.

2)By my count, since you claim to have been converted to a different religion, you have banned one member(RedWarrior) of the opposing (your former) religion.  You need to ban 3 members of the opposing religion to win.  Should you ban bulborbish today, and never ban anyone else, you would lose.  Did you just not realize this, or is there some other motive to your suggestion?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Mr.Person on September 04, 2009, 04:59:39 pm
Maybe he's hoping for another conversion.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: dakarian on September 05, 2009, 12:37:37 am
Vote bulborish. That's change religion I can depend on.

And thus we've formally placed the two most toxic topics into the same thread.  Epic.

We so need to add some form of Console war as well just to seal the deal.


Ok, on topic...meh, to the evan, but I guess that means what I predicted in end game occured: the strongest religion steps up to call on the hearts of the community.  Note that it's not really a 'game break' since I was thinking of it as part of the game design. 

One thin with bulb.. you sound odd.  You were converted but had to be told who converted you.. you aren't told who your religious mates are in your new religion? 

If not, are you use the religion you are in has the zealot?  If not, we're taking out the Evan and replacing it with a true one-man mafia. 

Oh well.  Beats shooting random I guess. 

As for Xegeth,  I think he's betting that the zealot was from Bulb's religion.  Either that or else find the person that was recruited by bulb Night 2. 

Vote Bulborish

Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Xegeth on September 05, 2009, 03:01:38 am
1) How do you know that both religious roles were killed from the same group?  Obviously, if bulborbish is telling the truth, then Redwarrior and bulborbish are on the same team.  However, that does not imply that Servant Corps was also a part of that religion.

Servant corps was definitely part of my former religion. The fact that we have seen all roles now confirms that there are only two religions and since only one used the zealot on the first night, I must have joined the opposite religion. It is possible that there are three religions but that would require them to contain different roles and bulborbish would have lied to me. I guess it is also possible that Servant Corps shot himself.

2)By my count, since you claim to have been converted to a different religion, you have banned one member(RedWarrior) of the opposing (your former) religion.  You need to ban 3 members of the opposing religion to win.  Should you ban bulborbish today, and never ban anyone else, you would lose.  Did you just not realize this, or is there some other motive to your suggestion?

According to the PM I received when I was converted, I can win by completing either goal, not just by doing both. Since I banned RedWarrrior when I was on his team, I doubt it counts towards my three bans so I doubt I can win if the first post was correct. Kashyyk did confirm that the PM was correct when I asked him though.

One thin with bulb.. you sound odd.  You were converted but had to be told who converted you.. you aren't told who your religious mates are in your new religion? 

I did have to be told who was in my religion but the only one that did get in contact was bulborbish. I still don't know who my new allies are.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Eduren on September 05, 2009, 04:41:41 am
Kashyyk: Change the thread title?

One thin with bulb.. you sound odd.  You were converted but had to be told who converted you.. you aren't told who your religious mates are in your new religion? 

I did have to be told who was in my religion but the only one that did get in contact was bulborbish. I still don't know who my new allies are.
Isn't it normal for scum to know who each other are? I didn't know this was different.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Xegeth on September 05, 2009, 05:08:35 am
Kashyyk: Change the thread title?

One thin with bulb.. you sound odd.  You were converted but had to be told who converted you.. you aren't told who your religious mates are in your new religion? 

I did have to be told who was in my religion but the only one that did get in contact was bulborbish. I still don't know who my new allies are.
Isn't it normal for scum to know who each other are? I didn't know this was different.

I didn't know it was different either until I joined bulborbish's team. I'm assuming that anyone who is converted doesn't get told about their religion in an attempt to prevent this situation. If I hadn't attempted to get bulborbish lynched on day 2, he wouldn't have had a reason to contact me so my conversion wouldn't have caused them to lose.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: dakarian on September 05, 2009, 07:56:30 am
I had suggested that recruits NOT be given direct access to the religion.  That way, the religion can decide how to treat their new people.  A LOT of this game involves actual interaction between the players: you'll lose if you rely only on the mechanics to win this game. 

(that's why the agnostics keep their 'survive' goal btw: as  the religion you're supposed to convince the actual PLAYER to work on your side)

Btw, ,really messed up moment: Your old religion LET you vote down the Prophet without warning you?  It wasn't telling you who the evan is that killed them, but not telling you who the prophet was.  If you said that you wanted someone else dead I would've listened.  Bah,nm that. You had the voting power to tie the vote by yourself.

Oh, just realized proof to the zealot/prophet being the same side: you can't kill and recruit on the same night.  Thus Religion A recruited Xegeth while Religion B killed. 

Lastly: I missed all of the action :P.  No one recruited me all game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: ToonyMan on September 05, 2009, 08:47:24 am
Vote Bulborish.

Bulborish hasn't defended himself yet, very odd if he was telling the truth of being an Agnostic.

I feel the same way Dakarian.   :(
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Cheeetar on September 05, 2009, 09:32:32 am
Ok so it turns out I lied when I said I'd be able to post a bigger analysis later. Bah. Maybe tommorow. It looks like Bulborbish is going to be lynched without him defending himself much, but that dosen't bother me as he seems suspicious to me.


Edit: Ok, it looks pretty obvious to me that Bulborbish is the last of his religion. If we lynch him now, then it means that the final religion can just convert every night until we all win, except for the merc who I don't believe is in this game.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: dakarian on September 05, 2009, 09:14:24 pm
Cheetar, don't edit your posts.  Editing is not allowed in mafia.  If you forgot something or made a mistake, write another post (double posting is ok here)


That's 5 on Bulb now.  I think we're about done this day.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: Cheeetar on September 05, 2009, 09:23:07 pm
Oh, sorry.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Night 2
Post by: bulborbish on September 06, 2009, 08:26:44 am
Vote Bulborbish

Good job other religion, you win

I wasn't on when you started to vote for Red, so I couldn't stop it.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Kashyyk on September 06, 2009, 12:42:25 pm
Thanks Eduren, forgot about that.

I suppose I ought to end the game? Let me think up some RP so I can do that properly.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: ToonyMan on September 06, 2009, 12:49:00 pm
Wait so, the games over?

That was fun.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: dakarian on September 06, 2009, 01:51:00 pm
As they say "All threats are removed"  The opposing religion is gone as are all who have a need to kill anyone else.  All townies have a 'Survive' goal since there's no Merc.  The big religion has no more threats so it can grow big enough to win anyway. 

There's only one issue: If Bulb recruited someone in Night 2, then it depends: if they are vanilla Agnostic, they win anyway.  If they are a power role, their role switched to 'religion wins' so they'll lose. 

And that's that.  I REALLY want to know you guys reasoning for that Night 1 kill: that was either an insane read or a crazy-lucky shot.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Mr.Person on September 06, 2009, 02:11:51 pm
It's amazing how even the best of mafia setups can be ruined by those damn players.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: dakarian on September 06, 2009, 03:00:23 pm
Didn't seem ruined to me actually.  Most games end at the end of Day 3.  As for the number of folks surviving: this game was meant to have a lot of survivors.  It just has an odd ending that feel unfinished.

Night 1 was a lucky shot, but shouldn't have been a game killer.  Bulb's group lost their kill ability but gained the Mod as a recruit.  They effectively had control of the vote.  I was also in good relations with Xen from talks in Day 1 and I would've been sypathetic to the non-zealot religion.

So Bulb's group has their Prophet and Evan, the double voter and, with some risk and communication, the FBI agent. 

The problem: no one told Xen who the prophet was and both religion members went quiet.  I had expected the relilgious to get aggressive in the vote and try to draw out who was who.  I expected someone to notice I was very eager in Zealot killing.  Since no one did anything I figured you religious folks were hiding so I took a "Smoke em out or wipe em out" decision. 

The rest was luck.  Prophet died.  Recruit stolen who had knowledge of the Evan.  Rest is history.


If there's something that needs work from what I saw, it would be more motivation for the town to act.  That'll bring the religious out of hiding and help cover them during the day.  Of course, I'll know more once I see how the religions were planning things out. 
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: ToonyMan on September 06, 2009, 03:05:57 pm
As they say "All threats are removed"  The opposing religion is gone as are all who have a need to kill anyone else.  All townies have a 'Survive' goal since there's no Merc.  The big religion has no more threats so it can grow big enough to win anyway. 

There's only one issue: If Bulb recruited someone in Night 2, then it depends: if they are vanilla Agnostic, they win anyway.  If they are a power role, their role switched to 'religion wins' so they'll lose. 

And that's that.  I REALLY want to know you guys reasoning for that Night 1 kill: that was either an insane read or a crazy-lucky shot.

Games over, so why not?

I am the other Zealot.  I killed Servant Corps because, well, I didn't want the ArmChair to find us out, if he didn't clam ArmChair this game would have ended up very different.  We killed to prevent being found out, just luck he was actually the other zealot!  :-D

Our religion:

Pandarsenic - Prophet
Frelock - E-Evangelist
ToonyMan - Zealot
Xegeth - Recruited Night 2; Moderator

ACTIONS:

Night 1 - Kill Servant Corps
Night 2 - Convert Xegeth
Night 3 - We were going to kill Dakarian.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Servant Corps on September 06, 2009, 03:09:26 pm
You know, you could have just "converted" me rather than kill me. Especially Panda was just the Prophet.

But whatever. Here's the quicktopics for our religion (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/YEBtWHPniE4Qu) and the dead chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8Xr5rt9GJsew).
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: ToonyMan on September 06, 2009, 03:11:02 pm
You know, you could have just "converted" me rather than kill me. Especially Panda was just the Prophet.

But whatever. Here's the quicktopics for our religion (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/YEBtWHPniE4Qu) and the dead chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8Xr5rt9GJsew).

Bah.  I wouldn't fall for such.

Anyway, here's our religion talk:

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Quhq7kpK9RqXL
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Leafsnail on September 06, 2009, 03:11:28 pm
I think the problem might be that the "town" basically just decided to give up and try and get themselves converted.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Mr.Person on September 06, 2009, 03:21:05 pm
I think the problem might be that the "town" basically just decided to give up and try and get themselves converted.

Well, being converted proves to one religion you're not part of the other religion. Of course, I had the luxury of being proven on the town, so it's a moot point. Oh btw, thanks for staying in touch, religion that converted me.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Eduren on September 06, 2009, 03:23:22 pm
I was Armchair Theologian.

Night 1: Dakarian (Random) = Agnostic
Night 2: Mr.Person (Random) = Weak Religious

I dont think i would have ever roleclaimed after seeing what happened to Servant Corps.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: ToonyMan on September 06, 2009, 03:24:52 pm
I was Armchair Theologian.

Night 1: Dakarian (Random) = Agnostic
Night 2: Mr.Person (Random) = Weak Religious

I dont think i would have ever roleclaimed after seeing what happened to Servant Corps.

I knew there was an Armchair, luckily you didn't hit one of us.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Servant Corps on September 06, 2009, 03:27:15 pm
I think the problem might be that the "town" basically just decided to give up and try and get themselves converted.

Well, being converted proves to one religion you're not part of the other religion. Of course, I had the luxury of being proven on the town, so it's a moot point. Oh btw, thanks for staying in touch, religion that converted me.

I'm guessing it's Bulb that converted you?
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Leafsnail on September 06, 2009, 03:29:01 pm
But, I dunno, it just seems like the town lost the will to live very quickly.  It might make sense for them to be a bit... stronger.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Little on September 06, 2009, 03:34:41 pm
I forgot to drop out before I went on vacation.  :P

I'm a Moderator.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: dakarian on September 06, 2009, 03:41:14 pm
After reading the winning religion's text:  *KICK PAND* Why does every single person I speak to think I'm their enemy :P.

I mean good gosh, I was the one that lead the push to kill Warrior.  If I was a power role, why would I kill of my own Prophet?  Besides, you guys figured out that there was only two religions and the zealot died, so, at worse, recruiting me would've failed and, at best, would've lead to another member. 

Sidenote: Nice, I hit religious both times.  I wanted to target openly suspected religious to try to catch the zealot kill.  Targeted one sides' Evan and the other side's Prophet.  A pity the first night you guys went for the 'towny' kill and second night the enemy had no killers. 

Sidenote 2: I was afraid that claiming FBI would lead to someone getting paranoid at me killing their zealot.  Was I right or would I have been safer had I claimed at Day 1?

Fake Edit: OMG TWO mods!? 
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Mr.Person on September 06, 2009, 03:43:05 pm
But, I dunno, it just seems like the town lost the will to live very quickly.  It might make sense for them to be a bit... stronger.

It might of helped if there was more of an incentive for them to hunt down the religions. As it stands now, hunting down a religion is a good way to make enemies. Personally, I think the "town" should be a lot smaller.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: dakarian on September 06, 2009, 04:13:25 pm
The second one might help with the town issue:  Most of the roles have anti-religion slants to them.  It's almost like Mafia vs Mafia vs SKs and Lyncher/Lynchees

In a 13 group: I could see, for example (after abusing Random.org). 

6 Religious (either 3 groups of 2 or 2 groups of 3)
1 Merc
2-3 Anti-religion Activists (equal to # religions)
1-2 Trolls
1 FBI

You now have a town with two who can be passive, one that's after the killing roles, and everyone else trying to wipe out SOMETHING. 

Another attempt:
6 religions
1 merc
1 Radical Athiest
2 Armchairs
2 FBIs
1 4chan

The 4chan is a wildcard that the religions MAY not want to grab.  There's 3 who's actively hunting religions and 2 that's free to join any religion.  Note that it leads to a very hostile town that the religious will have to dodge (since they don't really gain for killing the townies.  Imagine if Pand's group did kill the Armchair while Bulb's group grabbed the Mod: Bulb would be at a powerful advantage).

Either way, you'll have far fewer people sitting back and hoping to get recruited.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Cheeetar on September 07, 2009, 02:35:44 am
I am the administrator, and did absolutely nothing during this game. It's a very different game with not much killing roles, and I'm not used to it.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Kashyyk on September 07, 2009, 10:33:23 am
Spoiler: Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: night 1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: night 2 (click to show/hide)

Jerusalem Jihad:
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Quhq7kpK9RqXL

Sons of The Hoy One:
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/YEBtWHPniE4Qu

Dead Chat:
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8Xr5rt9GJsew
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - END GAME
Post by: ToonyMan on September 07, 2009, 03:38:09 pm
I deleted Servant Corps night 1, I don't see it there.  Not that it's a big deal, just.


Good Game everyone, our Religion got very lucky with a flawless win.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - END GAME
Post by: Servant Corps on September 07, 2009, 03:55:36 pm
Quote
You wake up early, wanting to hear how the conversion has been, but discover that your computer is flooded with malware! You know it will take you days to find the virus's and destroy them all, longer to return all your settings and personal information to normal.

You realise that you are out of this war of the religions, for good.
Title: Re: Religious Flame War Mafia - END GAME
Post by: Kashyyk on September 08, 2009, 11:50:26 am
Thanks for pointing that out.