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Author Topic: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?  (Read 2628 times)

Niddhoger

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 05:24:45 am »

Candles burn out rather quickly, I'd say only a few hours at maximum, meaning a single candlestick would use several candles a day.
I can't imagine how much tallow one would use up to feed the constant demand for light as a day in fortress time passes rather quickly.

Candlesticks shouldn't be buildable, in my opinion. Rather a dwarf needing light would carry a lit candle around with them, and place them to light a room (place them as an item, not 'construct' them) - as it would be IRL. Continuing on this I would think a single slab of tallow to produce something in the vicinity of 50 candles, simply to feed the demand.

Yes... but a living being typically needs to eat several times a day.  Organisms that eat less frequently tend to have very low caloric needs (ambush predators that spend most of their time immobile) or eat large meals at once (a python eating an entire large mammal to digest over weeks).  However, for balance reasons a dorf only eats... 8 times a year? A dorf eating 8 times a WEEK would need to gorge himeslf each sitting to not die of starvation!

What I am getting at, is that due to the timescale we would need candles that last several days.  Otherwise, dorfs would be carrying 20+ candles around with them or get nothing done.  Otherwise, they'd spend all their time carrying candles to/from their workplace as they extinguish too quickly.
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NJW2000

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 06:05:59 am »

Candles (both wax & tallow), lamps, and the like will almost certinaly be implemented in the Lighting arc, but not before. As for dwarves' darkvision, I expect they will still have it, but they WILL need some source of illumination in order to see fine details. So a dwarf in pitch blackness can move around & even fight, but can't be pleased by a well-crafted statue, even if it's right in front of him.

This seems logical, and not too hard to deal with. What about item descriptions: candles at desks, too?

On another note, a candlestick-maker is a really stupid trade. How many candlesticks could any one town possibly need, and how could the demand for them sustain a craftsman for his entire career? It's not like they wear out.

Erm.... They sort of melt. Candlesticks are just candles, you know?
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Deboche

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 08:01:30 am »

What I am getting at, is that due to the timescale we would need candles that last several days.  Otherwise, dorfs would be carrying 20+ candles around with them or get nothing done.  Otherwise, they'd spend all their time carrying candles to/from their workplace as they extinguish too quickly.
I think only certain dwarves would actually need to carry candles. The miners mostly as you can have light sources spread throughout the fortress, like fireplaces, torches and so on. Even skylights would work if there was a way to make them safe.

Also, I think the caverns should have some natural light source, glowing fungi or crystals or something.
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Vattic

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 02:23:02 pm »

Erm.... They sort of melt. Candlesticks are just candles, you know?
Candlesticks are the things that hold the candles like orbcontrolled mentioned earlier.

You're both using different definitions of the word "candlestick". Wikipedia says that Deboche's definition is correct: The candlestick is the thing that holds the candles (The "history" section mentions it being a common error).
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SixOfSpades

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 03:11:35 pm »

Candlesticks shouldn't be buildable, in my opinion. Rather a dwarf needing light would carry a lit candle around with them, and place them to light a room (place them as an item, not 'construct' them) - as it would be IRL. Continuing on this I would think a single slab of tallow to produce something in the vicinity of 50 candles, simply to feed the demand.
What I am getting at, is that due to the timescale we would need candles that last several days.  Otherwise, dorfs would be carrying 20+ candles around with them or get nothing done.  Otherwise, they'd spend all their time carrying candles to/from their workplace as they extinguish too quickly.

I see illumination as being the job of children, idlers, and/or a possible caretaker profession, whose other duties include things like Cleaning and relocating animals. It *is* possible to make candles so large that they burn all day. But yes, it'd be far more dwarfy to take advantage of natural cavern illumination (which, like Deboche, I presume will exist), such as transplanting bioluminescent fungus seedlings into stone pots, and then carrying the potted trees upstairs to use as streetlights. Etc.

And yes, Candle <> Candlestick. A candle maker is/was a very viable profession, indeed there were chandleries pretty much everywhere, doing constant business. But a candlestick maker was pretty much capped at something like 2 candlesticks per customer, with no repeat business, ever.
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Sizik

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2015, 12:01:11 pm »

Production of actual candlesticks would most likely fall under metalcrafting.
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Zarathustra30

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2015, 06:33:53 pm »

I wonder if there could be a candlestick/sconce/lamp building that provides light and generates refueling jobs when it runs out.

Candles would be made from tallow and yarn/thread, while torches would made from coal tar, cloth, and wood. Large stacks could be made at one time. Lamps would be made out of glass or fine metal and require wicks and oil.
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illiousintahl

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Re: The Cook, The Thief His Wife & Her Lover
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 06:49:42 am »

Duck L'Orange it. :P Don't worry if you haven't seen the film you don't get the joke based off the main posts subject heading.
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Insanegame27

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 07:20:58 am »

N-n-necro!
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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 01:19:42 pm »

What the hell?  >:( Is this guy's postlist made entirely up of useless necros? READ the words at the top of the forum, noobs!
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