Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 56 57 [58] 59 60 ... 166

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 473648 times)

Tinnucorch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #855 on: September 01, 2018, 06:11:10 am »

The current system isn't working or complete. It's not meant to be micromanagement hell once it's done.

I'm already aware of that. My question was more on the line of what will be the role of the thoughts and preferences screen once things are properly working, because right now it's quite misguiding and because maybe the implementation of proper site goverment/administration could render that screen obsolete with dwarves actually making complaints, associating themselves to make requests and that stuff. Not that I'm suggesting it, just considering the possibility.

So, I figured out the actual question:

Right now the thoughts and preferences screen is the main tool the player has to control and manage happiness in the fort. Can we expect for this to change once proper site administrations are implemented and dwarves (individually or collectively and besides nobles) can make requests or demands?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 06:54:53 am by Tinnucorch »
Logged

KittyTac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Impending Catsplosion. [PREFSTRING:aloofness]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #856 on: September 01, 2018, 06:27:21 am »

What do you think about adding (and playing as) oppressive systems of government?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 10:06:48 am by KittyTac »
Logged
Don't trust this toaster that much, it could be a villain in disguise.
Did you know that cats that have mysteriously disappeared from home can come back after a few months without warning?

GoblinCookie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #857 on: September 01, 2018, 07:29:23 am »

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government? Because one user, GoblinCookie is concerned (read: causing a moral panic) about the depiction of oppressive governments.

Can you edit that to remove personal details, this is not a place to engage in personal attacks.
Logged

KittyTac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Impending Catsplosion. [PREFSTRING:aloofness]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #858 on: September 01, 2018, 07:33:17 am »

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government? Because one user, GoblinCookie is concerned (read: causing a moral panic) about the depiction of oppressive governments.

Can you edit that to remove personal details, this is not a place to engage in personal attacks.
Fine. You know my opinion of you.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 07:36:50 am by KittyTac »
Logged
Don't trust this toaster that much, it could be a villain in disguise.
Did you know that cats that have mysteriously disappeared from home can come back after a few months without warning?

iceball3

  • Bay Watcher
  • Miaou~
    • View Profile
    • My DA
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #859 on: September 01, 2018, 09:32:03 am »

Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #860 on: September 01, 2018, 09:39:15 am »

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government?

Dwarves already are authoritarian by principle, many such crimes in the dwarven kingdom are delivered upon much more severe punished but be more level headed when considering dwarves can live out 100 year sentences & the time period, comparative with real life contemporary law & justice its harsh & and the own player input with the judiciary screen put the player in charge of delivering absolute justice.

I think to achieve such a effect it'd have to co-inside with some code changes like [RULER_JUDGEMENT] for a real flexible despotic take on how to deal with specific crimes akin to Dwarven Pyongyang with singular decisions defined by rule of whoever is the most senior on site.

((besides the fact dwarf fortress guards are infamous for lethally duffing up even minor offenders anyway))

Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!

I dont count myself a expert, but with costs of finding a nice piece of kit with eye-guards & a effective respirator system and the actual individual filtration pockets to attach it might be a slightly expensive investment compared to shoving wet towels between the cracks between windows and investing in AC but that's my opinion and i have no personal scope of the problem Toady is facing.

A simple mouthpiece one and some scuba goggles could substitute though from the nearest Home Depot or whatever's in range to keep it out of your eyes & mouth.
Logged

Death Dragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #861 on: September 01, 2018, 10:04:53 am »

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government?
Do you ask specifically about slavery or something else? As FantasticDorf said, the current dwarf government imprisons and beats people who don't submit to the demands of nobles and (until economy is finally back) only pays people in the form of food and some random crafts that are lying around, which I guess can basically be described as slavery.

Maybe with the new villain system we will be able to randomly accuse people of being criminals because of the spy stuff.
Logged

GoblinCookie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #862 on: September 01, 2018, 10:21:12 am »

Dwarves already are authoritarian by principle, many such crimes in the dwarven kingdom are delivered upon much more severe punished but be more level headed when considering dwarves can live out 100 year sentences & the time period, comparative with real life contemporary law & justice its harsh & and the own player input with the judiciary screen put the player in charge of delivering absolute justice.

True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair.  Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like.  KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however. 
Logged

Demonic Gophers

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • The Tunnels
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #863 on: September 01, 2018, 12:54:51 pm »

True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair.  Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like.  KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however.
-Noble mandates, say, earrings.
-Player forgets or refuses to order construction of earrings.
-Random hauler who immigrated with novice stonecrafter gets thrown in jail for failing to make earrings that were never ordered in a workshop that hasn't been built.
Entirely just and fair!  But it's true that economic oppression is largely nonexistent, with all production currently owned by the state and distributed freely to all residents.
Logged
*Digs tunnel under thread.*
I also answer to Gophers and DG.
Quote from: Shades of Gray
*Says something inspiring and quote worthy.*
Opinions are great, they're like onions with pi.

KittyTac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Impending Catsplosion. [PREFSTRING:aloofness]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #864 on: September 01, 2018, 01:09:03 pm »

True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair.  Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like.  KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however.
-Noble mandates, say, earrings.
-Player forgets or refuses to order construction of earrings.
-Random hauler who immigrated with novice stonecrafter gets thrown in jail for failing to make earrings that were never ordered in a workshop that hasn't been built.
Entirely just and fair!  But it's true that economic oppression is largely nonexistent, with all production currently owned by the state and distributed freely to all residents.
It might not always stay that way. Hence my question.
Logged
Don't trust this toaster that much, it could be a villain in disguise.
Did you know that cats that have mysteriously disappeared from home can come back after a few months without warning?

GoblinCookie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #865 on: September 01, 2018, 01:34:55 pm »

Do you ask specifically about slavery or something else? As FantasticDorf said, the current dwarf government imprisons and beats people who don't submit to the demands of nobles and (until economy is finally back) only pays people in the form of food and some random crafts that are lying around, which I guess can basically be described as slavery.

Maybe with the new villain system we will be able to randomly accuse people of being criminals because of the spy stuff.

The latter situation as regards payment is basically utopia rather than oppression, that is pretty much how things ought to work in real-life.  The former is the price the dwarves must regrettably pay to live in utopia, hence making it not-exactly utopia I suppose.  But then again, compared to real-life systems it is a pretty good life, unless the player decides otherwise......
Logged

Dozeb˘m Lolumzalýs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #866 on: September 01, 2018, 01:45:55 pm »

Edit: removed political derail
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 02:26:14 am by Dozeb˘m Lolumzalýs »
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: SalvanÚ Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

GoblinCookie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #867 on: September 01, 2018, 02:09:49 pm »

Dwarves have very little freedom. I would not consider that utopia. "Dictator which can be benevolent" isn't utopia-by-default with the possibility of failure - that's a slanted perspective, and you could just as easily call it dystopia-by-default.

They have the freedom to sit around all day and socialise, all work is technically voluntery except the noble's mandates as discussed. 

Which goes to prove my point about how difficult answering KittyTac's question would be for any dev.  It's utopia-by-default by my perspective since it requires the dictator to go out of his way to make things miserable, systems involving money are dystopia-by-default since they require a government to go out of their way to make this less miserable than it is their nature to be.
Logged

Tinnucorch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #868 on: September 01, 2018, 02:27:46 pm »

Please, don't make this another discussion about what characterizes government types. This is not the place for it.
Logged

ZM5

  • Bay Watcher
  • Accomplished RAW Engineer
    • View Profile
    • Steam
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #869 on: September 01, 2018, 02:59:47 pm »

Not a thread for "how this/that should work in real life" either, so I think me and a lot of other people would appreciate if you could keep your personal opinions on that out of this thread before it gets derailed due to pointless discussions where noone wins yet again, GC.
Pages: 1 ... 56 57 [58] 59 60 ... 166