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Author Topic: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?  (Read 1784 times)

Pvt. Pirate

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are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« on: October 31, 2018, 05:27:39 am »

is there any use for rooms with 2 or 3 zlevel high roofs?
in many other games, i would consider for example a temple with an outer ring with pillars and a few stairs down into the center which has a high ceiling as being better/more glorious/prestigoues than just a one floor temple.
does this work in DF too?
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wierd

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 05:58:08 am »

Vertical integration is better at pathing and has lower foot traffic than horizontal integration.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 06:01:17 am »

You can't make multi-level rooms (or zones) at all, so I would say no. But there is some limited practical use for such "rooms", for example in marksman training. I use quotes for "rooms", because they are not rooms in the technical sense in DF.

You can also make multiple zones and assign it to the same temple, for example:
- Make mayor's office a part of temple of god of death. The mayor will be surprised when people come to him to contemplate Murder, instead of usual shouting.
- Make a gathering zone in an orchard a part of temple of fertility (*). Gatherers will have to endure a stream of onlookers, who apparently come to the orchard for no apparent reason and just stare at them.

*)temporarily enable as meeting zone, assign a temple, then disable meeting zone. It will remain assigned to the temple.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 06:02:55 am by Saiko Kila »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 07:57:54 am »

On the orchard fonts, trees need headroom to grow, so their rooms need to be multiple z-levels tall. Minimum 2z to not die as sapling, 8z+branches (tallest thus I've seen something like 11z iirc?). You can also, say, place gathering zone on first level of branches and fourth level of branches by building stairs.

A mister would spread mist out more in a multiple z-levels tall room, as mist propagates orthogonally and this allows it to go up and down.

In case of werebeasts, building destroyers can't destroy something that rests on a single wall tile (surrounded by ramps or whatnot), so they greatly benefit from multiz rooms to keep producing stuff in workshops (deconstruct surrounding floors/walls on z-level under). Also, while not technically what you think of, if your hospital individual room entrances are through a hatch you can just lock the hatch in case the dwarf got bitten, thus giving a benefit to 2z hospitals. Or 3z, if you also include mister, well or the like.

Plus, from room value perspective entering the room through a hatch in the room results in more valuable rooms than entering through the door (and also allows you to stack dwarves bedroom/dining/etc. rooms vertically, although typically only nobles get anything other than bedroom).

When irrigating, you need to bucket water from at least 1z above. When bucketing magma sea into obsidian, it needs to be 2z above, since otherwise the 1/7 boils away. When obsidian farming, you also need at least 2z.

When doing a cave-in trap, you'd typically need at least 3z - bogie, support above bogie, and floor above support. But this is quite stretching the meaning of room.

Bumber

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 05:21:30 pm »

In case of werebeasts, building destroyers can't destroy something that rests on a single wall tile (surrounded by ramps or whatnot), so they greatly benefit from multiz rooms to keep producing stuff in workshops (deconstruct surrounding floors/walls on z-level under).
How is the dwarf supposed to access it?
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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 06:43:44 pm »

In case of werebeasts, building destroyers can't destroy something that rests on a single wall tile (surrounded by ramps or whatnot), so they greatly benefit from multiz rooms to keep producing stuff in workshops (deconstruct surrounding floors/walls on z-level under).
How is the dwarf supposed to access it?
They can still walk up the ramp. Building destroyers have particular requirements.
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Bumber

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 07:27:50 pm »

In case of werebeasts, building destroyers can't destroy something that rests on a single wall tile (surrounded by ramps or whatnot), so they greatly benefit from multiz rooms to keep producing stuff in workshops (deconstruct surrounding floors/walls on z-level under).
How is the dwarf supposed to access it?
They can still walk up the ramp. Building destroyers have particular requirements.
Then you can really build a workshop over a single floor tile and have it function?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2018, 07:35:58 pm »

I regularly knock out some of my workshops' edge tiles so that workers can shave off 1 tile of walking to qsp. It functions fine, as long as you don't put the hole concurrently with an impassable tile (which is impassable).

E: Deathgame map in my sig has examples of this. Though in hindsight this can look bit confusing.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:39:58 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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Bumber

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2018, 07:38:55 pm »

I regularly knock out some of my workshops' edge tiles so that workers can shave off 1 tile of walking to qsp. It functions fine, as long as you don't put the hole concurrently with an impassable tile (which is impassable).
Do you have to do it before building, or can you dig an up-ramp from below?

Edit: Just tried it, and neither method seems to work. Any open space below a carpenter's workshop results in "blocked". Up-ramps don't remove the floor tiles.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:46:13 pm by Bumber »
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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2018, 10:39:31 pm »

Well, yeah. Digging upramps under buildings is an exploit to retrieve items by not removing the floor, not an exploit to retrieve items by removing the floor. You need to deconstruct the floor.

If you want to put the QSP exactly under the workshop, not in one of the 8 edge tiles, you need to dig downstairs, floor them over, build workshops, deconstruct floor to get downstairs in workshop.

Pvt. Pirate

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2018, 11:28:35 am »

so in short: related to my use = NO.
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Bumber

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2018, 11:01:15 pm »

Okay, constructed floors only. Got it.
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pamelrabo

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2018, 01:16:37 pm »

Roleplaying is a perfectly acceptable reason to make your temples and baron offices as luxurious and pointless as you can.

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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2018, 11:34:41 pm »

Roleplaying is a perfectly acceptable reason to make your temples and baron offices as luxurious and pointless as you can.
well, digging out twice the room with the game only recognizing half of it (for calculation of wealth, room value etc) counts not only as pointless, but rather as destructive.
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pamelrabo

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Re: are rooms with multiple zlevels useful?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 03:39:56 am »

I've sometimes destroyed entire z-levels digging for gems to make my baron enough gem windows for his Overlook Tower of Pointless Luxuriousness and Decadence. Different colors for each floor, obvs.

Carving a tall ceiling room just because is perfectly acceptable to me, if it looks good.

Also, think of a library with several zlevels of bookcases, with elevated aisles and ladders. Dark Souls style library, without the monsters. Isn't that great?
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