Welcome to King of the Mafia, your chance to win the fabulous crown of this subforum! The rules are below. They were originally written by Dakarian and have been edited by webadict and me (my edits are in italics).You think you've proven yourself, child? "Oh my, I won as town!" Meh, that's easy with a whole army at your back and power roles you can abuse. "But I've beaten the town as Mafia!" PHAH! With friends and a horribly weak town.
But can you do both? Can you take down the mafia with 6 others, then turn around as mafia and BEAT those 6 to a pulp? Can you pick just the perfect role-braving additions caused by an evil mod-that will not only help you as town but also as scum? Can you fight off endless waves of people, including those you've killed?
Well then step on the hill and see if you have what it takes to be King of the Mafia.Spoiler: Basic Rules: READ! (click to show/hide)
Specialized Rules:
Inning is not required to sign up. To sign up read only the first two pages of Xylbot's role list (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12368) and choose ONE role from there (and PM it to me). You will then be assigned with that role, with a possibility of additional features based on balance or tomfoolery(though nothing hidden).Spoiler: Largish rules for choosing a role (click to show/hide)
Once 7 people have signed up, the game begins. A random person will be picked as KING MAFIA and will be given, on top of their role, the Mafiakill. The First Round ONLY will start with a kill-less Night (that is all killing abilities will be disabled).
From there, the game continues. During the game, anyone else can Sign up to be put on a queue. Game will play like a standard mafia game. If you die at any time, you may Sign up again, though others who haven't played that round will have priority.
If King Mafia is killed at any time, the round ends. Those in queue will take the place of those that died to refill the ranks back to 7 (those still alive remain), a new KING MAFIA will be picked, and the game will start on the next phase (Old round ends in Day, new round starts at Night...)
Play continues until KING MAFIA succeeds in being the ONLY one alive. Note that all players being dead does not fulfill the KING MAFIA win condition - in that case a new round would begin with 7 new players.
There is an antilurk system in place. Each RL day, you MUST have either voted (even if its for the same person) or sent in an action. Fail once and you get one prod. Fail twice in the same round and you will be killed, a player in Queue will automatically Sub in for you, and you will not be able to rejoin. Ever.
All may join this game, though be aware of the antilurk system. Please read this line Dariush.
*Toony Edit on No-Lynch policy*
Players may choose to no-lynch two days in a row. Otherwise a lynch must be made. If players force a tie then the lynch target will be randomly decided between the lynch candidates. If there are only two players left the compulsory lynch rule is not enforced, instead a stalemate results in a mafia loss.
You're done with the rules. Now join and claim the mountain!
InFriendly hint to check the rules. There's something you need to do still.
Just watching. Wish I had the time.Just play a Day Ken Kesey and suicide as your first action to skip out having to interact in the day phase.
Don't tempt me.Just watching. Wish I had the time.Just play a Day Ken Kesey and suicide as your first action to skip out having to interact in the day phase.
Are you going to do something similar to the first-day daykill you did in the last game? :PDon't tempt me.Just watching. Wish I had the time.Just play a Day Ken Kesey and suicide as your first action to skip out having to interact in the day phase.
pregame is open I guesswhat is goo type?
I'm a goo type role
what is goo type?The type that has 'goo' in the name.
I reflect light which lets you see what is behind you
Breaking me can break you soul or give bad luck to you
I sometimes have a world within me that I act as a portal you can travel to
Some magic makes me function as a prison too (https://i.imgur.com/Nsjo7Ax.jpg)
It was an empty one, could have been confused for a picture frame, click the link in this post now. Nerfed roles aren’t prohibited onesI reflect light which lets you see what is behind you
Breaking me can break you soul or give bad luck to you
I sometimes have a world within me that I act as a portal you can travel to
Some magic makes me function as a prison too (https://i.imgur.com/KzNDQVf.jpeg)
Nice words, but no Mirrors.
Persus probably nerfed the role I sent in. Too powerful. You definitely don't want to target me with anything.for all we know you are using re else psychology and you are trying to psyche us
That's right, it was reverse psychology, my role isn't powerful at all and you should definitely target me.Persus probably nerfed the role I sent in. Too powerful. You definitely don't want to target me with anything.for all we know you are using re else psychology and you are trying to psyche us
the point here is one of these is a lie and the other is ture, and the on,y way to know is when the game starts :DThat's right, it was reverse psychology, my role isn't powerful at all and you should definitely target me.Persus probably nerfed the role I sent in. Too powerful. You definitely don't want to target me with anything.for all we know you are using re else psychology and you are trying to psyche us
the only way to know is when the game startsThat's absolutely untrue. That's akin to saying there's no way of finding scum without role powers. NQT is here, and 'knows the answer', so you absolutely can divine the results from his input.
I literally didn't do anything last night.one difference is that there are less people, another difference is that there is a very large variety of possible roles. Play style? There are antilurk protocols in place, so I must be more active
Say, Naturegirl, what difference do you think KM has from normal Mafia and how will you change your playstyle?
NaturegirlNo, I did not. What about you?
Did you act last night?
I’m VT.im vanilla goo
What about you?Not to my knowledge
I’m VT.
What’s everyone else’s role?
I don't have any role activity to report
TricMagic
I don't trust you to show up on lylo, let alone kill KM
Why shouldn't I daykill you right now?
the point here is one of these is a lie and the other is ture, and the on,y way to know is when the game starts :DThat's right, it was reverse psychology, my role isn't powerful at all and you should definitely target me.Persus probably nerfed the role I sent in. Too powerful. You definitely don't want to target me with anything.for all we know you are using re else psychology and you are trying to psyche us
Is this a Tric question? I am going to be around. As for daykilling me now, it won't be all that useful in the long run, since you lose out on both information and voting power to lynch another.All questions are trick questions if you're willing to misrepresent the other person enough.
To this pregame stuff, you could be immune to actions and kills, ala godfather notquitethere. And claiming a powerful role in a lynching game is suspicious in the first place. Makes me want to see what you are hiding under that mask.How can anything which occurred in the pregame be suspicious in this game where we're all survivors and/or serial killers
For the first half, it's cause I don't lose much getting killed first game. That and showing you have a day kill makes yourself a target.Neither of these things are true but that's so self evident that I shouldn't be commenting here in the first place
Alos, that pregame post was suspicous to me in the first place, but the thread was locked before I could comment on it.
How can anything which occurred in the pregame be suspicious in this game where we're all survivors and/or serial killers
The reason I haven't commented on others mostly ties to disinterest in doing so, and that I am going to bed now. I also wonder why you want me to adress you when you made your thoughts perfectly clear.So you've no interest expressing thoughts about the game, but you're happy to post about things which have no possible bearing on player alignment?
So...I'm the king of the mafia and tric's the only player I'm not confident I can dodge a vote from on lylo.
Watcha doing, dolores? You’re all gung-ho on the idea that Tric won’t provide any useful information but you’re also going in heavy on the pumping him for info. Seems rather redundant. Will knowing his role be useful, or are you just happy to engage with him to breadcrumb/mislead your own stuff?
ICT has already told you his alignment.Nah, he'll do that when he votes.
ICTTown and town. Not that the first part matters much.
What's your alignment?
dolores: Given the first six words of your previous post, you agree on the point that claims have little weight at this point in the game. Why did you ask me for one? Do you believe my answer is truthful?I needed to ask you a question for RVS since nobody else had and you hadn't.
predicted role distribution,
Hector13: What's my alignment?
3) Post facto and parent of the above: I'm way more likely to spend the time to look through the xylbot list endlessly and compare alignments to claims, and also to (believe that I can) correctly interpret the alignment claims of other players than anyone else here. This absolutely is the sort of thing that'll form the basis for my gut reads later.Here's an interesting part about this game: alignments are not alignment-indicative. Finding the mafia doesn't help to find the KM.
You're a prop to me because your alignment is supremely easy (for me) to divine by maybe 48hr into D2.Perhaps, unless I actively work to deceive you, like last time.
I'm confident that KM!ICT can never do better than cross with me if we both make it to lylo.If I was the KM, do you believe I would let you survive to be part of my 3-way?
Have you read your role PM?Yes; it's suboptimal to go into a micro nightstart without doing so.
lol do share.Daykills and reflexives have been popular in past KotM games. I went through the list and extrapolated what sort of roles might be in the field. I concluded that I must play an offensive daygame and a defensive nightgame, whether or not I am KM.
TricMagic: Why does a daykill make someone any bigger a target than any other ability? If you were the KM, which ability would you believe to be the biggest threat to you?
Here's an interesting part about this game: alignments are not alignment-indicative. Finding the mafia doesn't help to find the KM.Do explain? Did I misread the rules? I thought it was the other way around: no matter what you do, you can not conceal your role as a KM (if you get inspected or something.)
IonMatrix: What do you believe is the biggest difference between this and a standard game?Well, there's only one Mafia, so that's something. Then, there's multiple rounds, which will make this game longer and fuck up who ever have a limited usage action. Then there's the wide, wide range of roles which I have basically no familiarity with.
Well, yes, all of these are correct, and quite obvious, honestly. I am going to ask a related question: What do you think of daykills, which as far as I bothered to read the last game, had quite a bit of effect?I literally didn't do anything last night.one difference is that there are less people, another difference is that there is a very large variety of possible roles. Play style? There are antilurk protocols in place, so I must be more active
Say, Naturegirl, what difference do you think KM has from normal Mafia and how will you change your playstyle?
“I am not the King Mafia”
No emotions are coming to mind. The statement I typed is true.
To the one who asked about my pregsme roleclsim, the truth, the poem, is telling you
for all we know you are using re else psychology and you are trying to psyche us
What’s everyone else’s role?I'm designated as a survivor, but that doesn't mean anything for wincon as the overriding wincons are King Mafia or Everyone Else.
NQTOnly on rounds where KM will reset does a sacrificial play make sense.
Given the lack of people, do you think it's reasonable to play as though being dead at the end of a round (where KM is reset) carries no cost?
To this pregame stuff, you could be immune to actions and kills, ala godfather notquitethere. And claiming a powerful role in a lynching game is suspicious in the first place. Makes me want to see what you are hiding under that mask.I'd be surprised if anyone picked a role they didn't think was powerful. No one's going to pick Pillar of the Community. Am I wrong?
NQT: What's the point of the above paragraph?I've used these kinds of declarations before so that when people try to make a read on my later in the game which amounts to "why aren't you acting like x" I can point to the message where I said I wasn't going to do x.
The biggest threat to me would have to be Rolecop...Why? I can think of many situations worse than a townie knowing your role.
Daykilling someone when you say you will if you get one is just a bad idea in general if you want to survive this game. Doing so at the very beginning of the first day is foolish, since no-one in this game wants someone with the power to kill during the day around. Especially if they are the KoM with a night kill.So if someone claimed role cop, you would definitely want them dead, even more than a daykiller?
No emotions are coming to mind.Once more, with feeling. If you can't say it like you mean it, I can't believe you.
Do explain? Did I misread the rules? I thought it was the other way around: no matter what you do, you can not conceal your role as a KM (if you get inspected or something.)If someone is, say, a framer (a nearly always scum role), that doesn't mean you want them killed in this game. So if someone says they're scum, that doesn't equate to KM.
Well, there's only one Mafia, so that's something. Then, there's multiple rounds, which will make this game longer and fuck up who ever have a limited usage action. Then there's the wide, wide range of roles which I have basically no familiarity with.Purely mechanical attributes, those. If these are the most important things to change your strategy for, do you intend to become an expert in them? Will you browse through the role list, thinking what players might want to play and how they might interact? What ability would be so powerful that you would take it even as limited use?
I've used these kinds of declarations before so that when people try to make a read on my later in the game which amounts to "why aren't you acting like x" I can point to the message where I said I wasn't going to do x.Considering I vary and tweak my strategy for pretty much every game, what kind of claim could I make later in the game from the declaration that I'm going to not use many of my usual tricks?
What do you mean what do I think of them? Like nightkills, like any kills, they narrow things down, but also may have a chance of killing allies, though if everyone is survivor/sk there;s not much in the way of allies anywayFINE. GET OUT OF MY FACE. Unvote
I don’t actually get emotions very often, it doesn’t mean I;m faking anything, I just don’t feel emotions very often. I feel emotions in short bursts on an otherwise emotionless plane of thought, saying I have an emotion when I don;t would be lyingIn that case, let's ask it differently: What does being town mean to you in this game? How do you intend to radiate pure townishness to be read as such?
I will kill random person because the day just started and there isnt lot of information.You wouldn't wait a moment to see if more information comes, or even try to extract that information yourself?
FINE. GET OUT OF MY FACE. UnvoteThat's pretty aggressive. Did you get the information you were looking for?
ICT, WDYT on pre-game claims and are they actually useful and/or believable?The pre-game is all about mindgames and getting into the other players' heads. There is no reliable, hard information to obtain from it, but the insights to other players can be useful if you don't know them very well.
The biggest threat to me would have to be Rolecop...Why? I can think of many situations worse than a townie knowing your role.QuoteDaykilling someone when you say you will if you get one is just a bad idea in general if you want to survive this game. Doing so at the very beginning of the first day is foolish, since no-one in this game wants someone with the power to kill during the day around. Especially if they are the KoM with a night kill.So if someone claimed role cop, you would definitely want them dead, even more than a daykiller?
Tric, on a scale of 1-10, how important is finding roles? Is it effective to do so in day1?
Here's an interesting part about this game: alignments are not alignment-indicative. Finding the mafia doesn't help to find the KM.Are you being obtuse on purpose?
Perhaps, unless I actively work to deceive you, like last time.Sure, I could get blindsided by not knowing my role or when was lylo again. Not much I can do about that.
If I was the KM, do you believe I would let you survive to be part of my 3-way?I did that last game, so sure, I've got that option.
Only on rounds where KM will reset does a sacrificial play make sense.Isn't that every round besides the last?
IonMatrixGonna give any kind of commentary on this:
How do you think ICT's pregame silence is likely to impact his opening post?
NG responded, so I'll follow up:
Why are you asking new players trick questions this early in the morning
FINE. GET OUT OF MY FACE. UnvoteWhy aren't you voting? Why the show? Why the show over nothing specifically?
To NQT: I will kill random person because the day just started and there isnt lot of information.Why would you not be flashlynched like lasttime? Are the players in this game that different, or do you know something shakes didn't?
If my role becomes known to a rolecop, it loses it's effectiveness. Same thing if I'm killed, for that matter.If that were the case, isn't making this claim equivalent to fullclaiming your role and thus negating it?
6. Not very effective during day 1 though..What do you expect to do with role knowledge on D2 that you can't do now?
I would like to see a votecount soon though. Why did you unvote exactly?Do any of the votes that have been cast so far mean anything?
If my role becomes known to a rolecop, it loses it's effectiveness. Same thing if I'm killed, for that matter.Why are you fishing for visits?
To the second, I would rather kill the daykiller at that point. Daykills in effect with nightkills can cut down the numbers quickly. And if KoM has a day kill, they also have a nightkill, making their success rate much higher.So you don't trust your skills to be able to sway a daykiller to work in your favour as the KM?
Hector, what do you think about the effectiveness of the pre-game claims?
Mostly wanted to see if any votes got stolen, really.Just thinking
Naturegirl, any reason you haven't voted yet?
dolores: I'm getting the idea that you want to focus on the night game in this one. Is that correct? Usually your motto is that town wins during the day.I have the suspicion that there are 3+ killers in the game. Dayposting to control the nightgame probably is a better use of (my) time than riding down a lynch.
30% of questions unanswered seems like a lot, though I don't see it as such Dolores. Particularly cause you are the one asking them.And yet, you still refuse to answer them.
TricMagic30% of questions unanswered seems like a lot, though I don't see it as such Dolores. Particularly cause you are the one asking them.And yet, you still refuse to answer them.
Is my play style really so disorienting to you?It's not that it's disorienting, it's that it shows so little visible investment in the game that it makes you look like scum. From the methods to the madness I've seen, you are capable of logical thought. However, you don't show your thinking in a way that would convince anyone, only the raw conclusions that you have reached. And because you don't show your thinking, it often seems that you make unnecessary leaps in logic by assuming that which you could just ask. For example, could you explain the thinking that led to your current vote on dolores?
That is quite the number you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it.Which number does this refer to?
To NQT: I will kill random person because the day just started and there isnt lot of information.You literally have no information yet?
NQT, pro-cons of DK vs NK. Tell me what you think.Day kill is superior in every respect. It's much less likely to interfered with and it gives you live, actionable results straight away. If I had a day kill I would use it almost every day. How about you?
I think I mixed up 'day' and 'round' here. I meant, sacrificial play only makes sense on days when the KM resets. D1, for instance, is not a day for sacrificial play.Only on rounds where KM will reset does a sacrificial play make sense.Isn't that every round besides the last?
How can anything which occurred in the pregame be suspicious in this game where we're all survivors and/or serial killersI'm not. And it happens to be because of WIFOM being active that I RVSed NQT.. As for another thing.
the point here is one of these is a lie and the other is ture, and the on,y way to know is when the game starts :DThat's right, it was reverse psychology, my role isn't powerful at all and you should definitely target me.Persus probably nerfed the role I sent in. Too powerful. You definitely don't want to target me with anything.for all we know you are using re else psychology and you are trying to psyche us
To this pregame stuff, you could be immune to actions and kills, ala godfather notquitethere. And claiming a powerful role in a lynching game is suspicious in the first place. Makes me want to see what you are hiding under that mask.
The biggest threat to me would have to be Rolecop...Why? I can think of many situations worse than a townie knowing your role.QuoteDaykilling someone when you say you will if you get one is just a bad idea in general if you want to survive this game. Doing so at the very beginning of the first day is foolish, since no-one in this game wants someone with the power to kill during the day around. Especially if they are the KoM with a night kill.So if someone claimed role cop, you would definitely want them dead, even more than a daykiller?
If my role becomes known to a rolecop, it loses it's effectiveness. Same thing if I'm killed, for that matter.
To the second, I would rather kill the daykiller at that point. Daykills in effect with nightkills can cut down the numbers quickly. And if KoM has a day kill, they also have a nightkill, making their success rate much higher.
Tric, on a scale of 1-10, how important is finding roles? Is it effective to do so in day1?
6. Not very effective during day 1 though..
I would like to see a votecount soon though. Why did you unvote exactly?
I'm not. And it happens to be because of WIFOM being active that I RVSed NQT.. As for another thing.The fact I already said it was as good a reason as any for RVS once more does not help.
Is my play style really so disorienting to you?It's not that it's disorienting, it's that it shows so little visible investment in the game that it makes you look like scum. From the methods to the madness I've seen, you are capable of logical thought. However, you don't show your thinking in a way that would convince anyone, only the raw conclusions that you have reached. And because you don't show your thinking, it often seems that you make unnecessary leaps in logic by assuming that which you could just ask. For example, could you explain the thinking that led to your current vote on dolores?
Actively participating in the daygame and answering and asking questions is absolutely necessary to winning, be it this game or any other. Refusing to do so is actively anti-town and lynchable.That is quite the number you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it.Which number does this refer to?
Tric, would you pick a weak role?
Isn't that every round besides the last?I think I mixed up 'day' and 'round' here. I meant, sacrificial play only makes sense on days when the KM resets. D1, for instance, is not a day for sacrificial play.[/quote]
I so want to quick hammer right now.Everyone's posted what they want to about their roles so the real reason not to is to see what happens with IonMatrix.
To IcyTea, that is WIFOM talking. And swaying a daykiller is next to impossible for me. If I die, I die.If you cannot sway a daykiller, how do you intend to sway someone who is lynching you?
My reasoning for voting dolores are 3 fold. First, is that they will absolutely try to lynch and kill me.This is called OMGUS. Voting for someone only because they are voting for you. It is an ineffective technique.
Second is their methods.This is a personal vendetta, unless you're going to elaborate. If you believe dolores' methods are anti-town, explain how.
And third is the idea that they do have a role that can completely screw up any sort of long term plans.Newshflash: everyone has a role that can and will screw up your plans until proven otherwise. Using it as a voting basis is pure WIFOM and self-serving, not town-serving.
This is a total non-sequitur, right? My brain hasn't finally given out under the stress of trying to comprehend your formatting?
What does this have to do with anything?
If I had a daykill you'd be dead now. If I get a daykill, I'll kill you.Tric believes that this post means that you believe Tric has a roleswap power. No, I don't follow the logic either.
‘cause I’m currently considering tying the vote and forcing Ion to do somethingThen do so. There's still time in the day. You don't need permission to scumhunt.
This is a total non-sequitur, right? My brain hasn't finally given out under the stress of trying to comprehend your formatting?
What does this have to do with anything?If I had a daykill you'd be dead now. If I get a daykill, I'll kill you.Tric believes that this post means that you believe Tric has a roleswap power. No, I don't follow the logic either.
dolores.Gonna have ionmatrix choose between lynching ionmatrix or tric?
I'm not changing my vote until IonMatrix posts. As a policy lynch, a player who can vote is a worse choice than one who can't (because his internet has dropped out or w/e).What do you mean what do I think of them? Like nightkills, like any kills, they narrow things down, but also may have a chance of killing allies, though if everyone is survivor/sk there;s not much in the way of allies anywayFINE. GET OUT OF MY FACE. Unvote
... Trying to actually play seems to get me lynched. So should I have just been silent most of the time rather than trying to pin a lynch on the guy I believe in lynching?Nah, voting me is the right thing to do. But your justification for it sucks. So that makes it the wrong thing to do. Voting you is also the wrong thing to do, because I have no especial reason to suspect you're KM. Voting IM is definitely the wrong thing to do, because I think he's less likely to be KM than an arbitrary player, e.g. you.
For now, I know Ion is just lurking the day away after voting and unvoting.I mean, it might be caused by external factors. But that is what is happening, which is why I'm voting him.
Though I feel like self-hammering just to get this over with by this point and sign up for round two with a role that won't get me killed day 1.Nobody is voting you because of your role. If you self-hammered and the round reset because you're KM, unless you can start posting justified reasoning, you're still going to be lynched any day there's not an actual case made on the KM.
FUUUU my internet just failed me. Retyping. ARGH. This time I'm going to say lessThe rest of this post is fine too.What do you mean what do I think of them? Like nightkills, like any kills, they narrow things down, but also may have a chance of killing allies, though if everyone is survivor/sk there;s not much in the way of allies anywayFINE. GET OUT OF MY FACE. Unvote
It is in part a policy lynch, yes. If I allow a single player to refuse to participate in the daygame, that means the KM could use that as a refuge. Whether Tric actually is the KM trying to use it as a refuge or just playing an ineffective self-serving daygame I can't tell...because he refuses to participate. Therefore I place my vote and tell him to quit the anti-town behaviour.Assuming IonMatrix doesn't post again before the end of this day, which of TricMagic or IonMatrix is more anti-town? If you want to vote someone for non-participation, wouldn't it be better to kill the player that was silent for the last 3/4 of the day?
On D1, lynching anti-town is generally an acceptable substitute for lynching scum, so I'm willing to take the risk of him actually getting lynched for it.
I'm personally getting a soft town read on IonMatrix. Not really knowing what to do, but the effort is there.I agree. But I don't want to commit to calling him definitely town, which I would have to do to excuse his behavior if he's actually lurking and not physically unable to post.
Then again, if he does come back before day end, you're dead.Why, do you plan to hammer me? I expect at least one of Naturegirl or Hector to be online before day's end, which makes 4 people including IM.
Contains anything other than them answering other people's questions, and it's them voting on the request of another player (incidentally, TricMagic).Mostly wanted to see if any votes got stolen, really.Just thinking
Naturegirl, any reason you haven't voted yet?
I vote dolores due to the fact that in previous games when she played town, her posts were longer, which sincer her posts are shorter and contain less questions, to me lends suspicion due to previous playstyle compared to current playstyle
If NG is KM, she's completely misunderstood how to win a game like this.Regardless of whether she is KM, I would insist that that is very likely the case:
I don't think she has an organized plan of any sort, I think that she's just been playing it by ear and doing what she already knows how to do. It's not as if this D1 has done anything to force her to set up a lynch. Answering questions is alignment non-indicative, and I don't think passivity is really a towntell here.Say, Naturegirl, what difference do you think KM has from normal Mafia and how will you change your playstyle?one difference is that there are less people, another difference is that there is a very large variety of possible roles. Play style? There are antilurk protocols in place, so I must be more active
I don't think she is dumb enough to believe this game can be won with just "keep a low profile in the day and pick them off one by one in the night"I'd say that rather than being wrong, I just don't think she's thought it through. After all, someone's being voted and it's not her. There's been no strong impetus to get her to do any more.
I suspect she has a different plan for the night, i.e. one that doesn't involve killing, i.e. probably not KM.Now this, I definitely disagree with. If we're going to talk about thinking ahead, I would say that it could be possible to consider this evidence of anticipating the possible need to claim a kill, and should be considered evidence of the mindset of someone with nightkills in mind:
What do you mean what do I think of them? Like nightkills, like any kills, they narrow things down, but also may have a chance of killing allies, though if everyone is survivor/sk there;s not much in the way of allies anyway
You try paying attention when you’ve had little sleep because of fighting cats for a month and a half, broseph. See how much passion you can express when the only passion you have is for a comfortable place to lay your head and sweet, unmolested unconsciousness.fighting cats? Why are you being attacked by cats?
You try paying attention when you’ve had little sleep because of fighting cats for a month and a half, broseph. See how much passion you can express when the only passion you have is for a comfortable place to lay your head and sweet, unmolested unconsciousness.fighting cats? Why are you being attacked by cats?
Channeler (Town): You can channel the spirit of a dead player, giving you all of that player's abilities and traits except their win condition. Actions: channel
You are an Ascetic (Survivor): You are immune to non-kill actions.
You are a Bodyguard (Town): You can guard another player. If that player would be killed, you and the attacker will kill each other instead. Actions: Guard
I don’t like doloreswow, rude
states naturegirl was scum when their case was no different from the policy lynches they were happy to perform on Tric and IonMatrix.I was voting Tric out of RVS and hadn't managed to establish a case I had any confidence in. I'd pretty much covered this D1 but you can think of this as an attempt to vote town!Tric, which is why I didn't switch my vote right away even though I was coming to believe that he was town.
dolores was on the policy lynches from post 1. dolores plays the game on a slightly different wavelength from everyone else, evidently preferring to keep the "better" players around rather than necessarily lynching the scummiest, but still.Until lylo, generally. It's not hard to pick scum out of a group of active players, you can do it at any time with confidence. It's impossible to know whether an empty slot is scum. If you can manufacture an active group of players with case history for lylo, it's autowin for town. I believe in using your mislynches, not in safety nets.
I believe there is at least one player who now knows that I did not perform the kill.And you don't know who that player is? If you're making a mechanical claim, I guess another player will bear it out. It ain't me. I can imagine you trying to snipe an ABA role confirmation by feigning an ABABA confirm, but I also doubt that's what's happening.
Also, for the record, hector's playstyle has been suspicious to me, less passionate than I'd have expected.
You try paying attention when you’ve had little sleep because of fighting cats for a month and a half, broseph. See how much passion you can express when the only passion you have is for a comfortable place to lay your head and sweet, unmolested unconsciousness.
I've got a moderator question pending, but in the meantime:You've asked if IonMatrix would have shown up as a modkill or a regular kill if he qualified for a modkill in the same night that he was killed.
...
Apologies for holding my cards close to my chest, but I am trying to make sense of a few tidbits that expand to many scenarios I must eliminate before I can openly present the correct one.
Dolores: what are your thoughts on me and hector? Going for the lurker isn't out of character for you, but you're reading a lot from a lack of posts. What would you name as the biggest difference between noobtown and noobscum play?You're(ICT's) obviously about to make some sort of mechanical-information-backed play, so I think I'd prefer to give a comprehensive analysis of you after that. In the short form, you've either played super honestly (i.e. 'conventional town') or are setting up the groundwork for gut-reads. The former should appeal to NG and the later should appeal to me, unless I think it's manufactured for that purpose (i.e. outside of wine). Your big problem is that since you're blending conventional and what I'll call quantum play (in lieu of having a better description onhand), you've got nothing in a threeway if there's a non-KM player who both doesn't buy it and out-competes you in the spectral range the other player sees in. I imagine you're looking to clear a player and shoot outside of that, so I also suspect (as mentioned above) that you do have a kill.
I was voting for IonMatrix because D1 was spent exploring policy lynches, and thus there was little for me to go on regarding building a case beyond the “this policy lynch is better than that policy lynch”So do you have a case on NG at all beyond 'they're inactive and not responding to questions they could have answered'? Because I'm not gonna lie, this is a really shitty case to end the round on, and you've stated that it's your preferred lynch at present.
It really looks like you're paying more attention to this game than you[hector13] try to appear to.I actually wrote pretty much everything about hector in the above post after seeing this one, so what's above is my actual response.
I have an obligation to pay attention to the game because I’m in the game. I might not be as interested in playing as I should be, certainly nowhere near the level I would get to in games gone by... but I want to at least make the game competitive for those who do have that interest. Paying attention is the easiest way to do that. That’s was frankly all you were getting on D1 though, other than a little shallow analysis.How does a token effort make the game notably more competitive than
You suffer from the burden of proficiency, though. You posted a lot on D1, and seemed happy with a policy lynch over anything else. You questioned Tric a lot, got nowhere as expected, and then piggy backed my reasoning on IonMatrix as a better policy lynch. There didn’t seem to be any initiative in your play beyond that, even afte my “hey guys, please don’t settle on the easy Tric lynch” post.Yes, I was playing at a lower profile than usual to dodge the possibility of getting daykilled. This meant more waiting for players to answer questions I asked them and less grandstanding when they didn't. If you look back, you'll notice that I started a dialogue with everyone, but only Tric and dolores really kept responding to me.
I didn’t want to lynch doloresWhy not?
Let’s explore the idea though. What is interesting about me paying more or less attention than you might expect?In past games, you've been highly passionate and provocative right from your first post on D1, while in this one you're playing far more aloofly, or apparently aloofly, than usual. Even during this D2, you've been very much on the defensive; I'd have expected you to come up with a case against me in response to my accusations and not just my D1 behaviour.
What did you mean by me being less passionate in that last post anyway? I was willing to let it slide then because it was the end of the day and I wasn’t able to invest the time necessary to explore it, but we’ve got nothing but time now.
He doesn't like you (ICT) for a variety of reasons, including the fact that you've been trying to set up literal actual WIFOM.Projecting.
I've done a fair amount of work to dodge both KM!hector and town!hector kills, so I haven't had to make a strong effort here to date. He loses (is the lynch target, so loses regardless of alignment) in a H/ICT/NG trio as well and is in a shitty spot to make a case on me so I don't think he's likely to win as KM. If I'm forced to choose between NG and Hector, I'm going to choose to kill the player that's failed to take their opportunity to give me more material.You believe you'd have the advantage in a D/H/ICT three-way. Presumably, because you've seen me trivially manipulate NG into voting with me in the past. Do you believe you would win D/ICT/NG, regardless of anyone's alignment?
The case you're making on hector right now is basically my present case on NG, except hector is less guilty.And that my case is generating data, as hector is actually responding to it, unlike NG on your case.
I'm not so much reading a lot so much as not reading anything else, and therefore having read a very high percentage of negative things (about NG).
Balanced by his activelurking, he's still better off than you and much better off than NG.An interesting order of lynchability, considering you know everyone's roles.
Noobtown vs. Noobscum outside of this context (i.e. outside of KotM)? Noobtown answer questions. Noob!foo tend to be really easy to clear because they post in a way that's intuitive and not cagey at all, which is why it's so easy to win games which are mostly active noobtown as an active experienced townie. Because the way they answer questions gives away their alignment, noobscum know, are told, or intuit this and try to avoid responding to cases; when they do, they're usually caught.In my experience (both as and playing with and against), noobscum are indeed generally motivated by fear of getting caught. But I haven't seen that as an unwillingness to post, more as playing defensively: actively responding to any direct questions, but keeping a low profile otherwise.
I actually wrote pretty much everything about hector in the above post after seeing this one, so what's above is my actual response.Here we come again to the debate of our differing playstyles. Remember, not every case I make is for the purpose of getting someone lynched and not every post's intent is to get a reaction from its addressee.
Outside of your mysterious unclaimed mechanical/moderator information we're waiting on, you've got nothing in this game but a (borrowed) case on NG for active lurking and a weaker case on hector13 - for active lurking.
I'm circling around this idea that you don't seem prepared to go for a dolores lynch at allThat's because it's not you whom I need to convince that I have a case against you.
How does a token effort make the game notably more competitive thanBecause he can sell it because nobody here respects him and he's pulled this shit before as scum
Nah. You and NQT don't like me because of those cases. I don't have a use for them though because that threeway isn't going to happen.He doesn't like you (ICT) for a variety of reasons, including the fact that you've been trying to set up literal actual WIFOM.Projecting.
Interesting reading.QuoteI've done a fair amount of work to dodge both KM!hector and town!hector kills, so I haven't had to make a strong effort here to date. He loses (is the lynch target, so loses regardless of alignment) in a H/ICT/NG trio as well and is in a shitty spot to make a case on me so I don't think he's likely to win as KM. If I'm forced to choose between NG and Hector, I'm going to choose to kill the player that's failed to take their opportunity to give me more material.You believe you'd have the advantage in a D/H/ICT three-way. Presumably, because you've seen me trivially manipulate NG into voting with me in the past. Do you believe you would win D/ICT/NG, regardless of anyone's alignment?
Sure, but I have your case to rely on for that.QuoteThe case you're making on hector right now is basically my present case on NG, except hector is less guilty.And that my case is generating data, as hector is actually responding to it, unlike NG on your case.
That's my point. You have a more certain read on someone who has provided little data than on people who have actively interacted with you. It should go by intuition that more data would equal a more certain read. You even note this yourself by saying that a three-way with all players active is an autowin for town.No, the inactive player makes all my reads weaker. Reads are probabilistic. There's no level of scummy that you could be that would change my suspicions about NG, only overshadow them in terms of hardness.
Not really.QuoteBalanced by his activelurking, he's still better off than you and much better off than NG.An interesting order of lynchability, considering you know everyone's roles.
In my experience (both as and playing with and against), noobscum are indeed generally motivated by fear of getting caught. But I haven't seen that as an unwillingness to post, more as playing defensively: actively responding to any direct questions, but keeping a low profile otherwise.Bullshit, or more like: I'd call that badscum rather than noobscum. Or maybe you're right, and I'm thinking of badnoobscum. Actually, you're definitely right, that's noobscum and not badnoobscum, which are different things.
Here we come again to the debate of our differing playstyles. Remember, not every case I make is for the purpose of getting someone lynched and not every post's intent is to get a reaction from its addressee.So what's hector's role? Farming for townie points only works if I'm not here, because I did too good a job of it on D1 for comparison.
Well you've lost the chance to lynch me completely, so I guess I should prepare for the upcoming H/NG/ICT D3. Which will be done if the case against NG ever falls through. I guess it's done now if they're actually KM, but that's a bit eh.QuoteI'm circling around this idea that you don't seem prepared to go for a dolores lynch at allThat's because it's not you whom I need to convince that I have a case against you.
Right now, I’m not sure who to lynchSince nobody has claimed a kill, we're probably not going to lynch so KM has to kill someone and give us a threeway.
What data are you generating with your case against me?Data on how dolores reacts to it. It's a tried and true method relying on the fact that dolores tends to react to interactions that don't involve her, especially if they're not up to her standard.
Policy lynches. What makes me the better one?That it causes more controversy to accuse you.
As town (have to lynch KM to win), the only scenario which worries me is D/H/NG because I don't think I could pick your case on hector up straight away aWhy would you pick up my case on hector? It's total BS.
D/ICT/NG is nice for KM!D because I know I can just cross with you and win when you get hammered.I'd doubt it, considering how the trick to getting the hammer with NG is asking nicely, something you would have trouble with. Past game:
It's also interesting how you can't imagine going into D/ICT/NG with NG as KM.Naturegirl1999: if you believe FoU is suspicious, why aren't you voting for him this close to the day ending?Fair point
FallacyofUrist
Sure, but I have your case to rely on for that.I've been the mod looking over scum!NG, and this doesn't match that experience. Hanlon's Razor points to her being apathetic rather than malicious in the lack of posting. Most likely explanation is that she doesn't care about the game because she's not the KM and one can sign up for a later round regardless of survival.
You've got no suspicions whatsoever regarding the fact that Naturegirl, a player that has been active in the past during games where they were town, is now deliberately avoiding posting anything related to finding scum?
What's Naturegirl's role?Town!NG wouldn't lie about having no active abilities, and I heavily suspect scum!NG wouldn't either.
If hector's role is of the variety that I'm thinking it is, most trios with town!hector are autowin for town under stalling rules.It's not what you think it is, then.
Naturegirl isn't noobtown, as demonstrated by the fact that I don't know their alignment. So they're either badtown or badscum. The thing is, naturegirl has finished games as goodnoobtown in the past, so there's no way to sell that they could be active and can't think of a way to be productive as town.What about "noobvivor"?
So what's hector's role?You shouldn't have to ask this if your nightgame is up to par.
Why would you pick up my case on hector? It's total BS.Because it's total BS. The goal is to clear him, right? Why would I bring a case that could actually gain traction?
I'd doubt it, considering how the trick to getting the hammer with NG is asking nicely, something you would have trouble with.I'd rather lose than stoop to such underhanded methods
It's also interesting how you can't imagine going into D/ICT/NG with NG as KM.NG wouldn't roll dice for the kill
Most likely explanation is that she doesn't care about the game because she's not the KM and one can sign up for a later round regardless of survival.Shouldn't it be the other way around, since KM is the only role with no failstate and everyone else can lose?
Doesn't exist. Noobs play survivor as town, pros play survivor as scum, baddies play survivor as modkills.QuoteNaturegirl isn't noobtown, as demonstrated by the fact that I don't know their alignment. So they're either badtown or badscum. The thing is, naturegirl has finished games as goodnoobtown in the past, so there's no way to sell that they could be active and can't think of a way to be productive as town.What about "noobvivor"?
I've never in my life had a nightgame, except in games which allow PMs and so let you play the daygame at night.QuoteSo what's hector's role?You shouldn't have to ask this if your nightgame is up to par.
You want a role claim? I am Survivor MirrorThat's unambiguously not something anybody asked.
Because it's total BS. The goal is to clear him, right? Why would I bring a case that could actually gain traction?Because if you do it in good faith and end up not clearing him, you want to continue on to an actual lynch. By your stated playstyle, you would want to begin with the good case so as not to lose the opportunity for the lynch.
NG wouldn't roll dice for the killNG wouldn't kill hector? That's WIFOM.
Shouldn't it be the other way around, since KM is the only role with no failstate and everyone else can lose?If you're sure there's going to be another round, dying isn't a failstate. Ergo, one could honestly believe that this game is all for themselves and lurk without fearing a lynch. It's a wrong conclusion, but it's one that can be reached after misunderstanding how this game works.
I doubt NG is playing by survivor/sk rules, anyway.She certainly seems to think she is.
You're going to assert that NG has realized that we're playing KotM at some point between the start of the game and 19 hours into it?A bit under 14 hours, to be specific. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175873.msg8109221#msg8109221) At least, that's when the all-for-themselves idea comes up and lurking begins.
I've never in my life had a nightgame, except in games which allow PMs and so let you play the daygame at night.I think we have different definitions of nightgame.
I wasn't here for N1, though, no.
You are a Redirecter (Survivor) and King Mafia: You can redirect another player's ability to target another player ("redirect [player] [newtarget]"). You can perform the mafiakill. Actions: Redirect, Kill
If you survive a round, you stay as the same role you were before (though you a new chance to also be the King Mafia).thanks for clarifying
I'm leaning towards treating it as if all players had died, since keeping the roles could result in the scenario repeating itselfYeah, a preponderance of unkillable roles pretty much forces later players to bring e.g. grey goo or poisonous roles (which are generally pretty suboptimal for KM) to be able to win as KM. Any setup with two action-immune-townie's can stalemate from D1 if there are no vote-stealing powers since neither of them can win as KM if the other is alive, creating a stable permanent voting block which persists across all setups if roles are kept.