Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Bodycarver on September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 am

Title: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Bodycarver on September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 am

I'm going to be reasonable when I should not be. I know very well that all forumers -- in fact anyone -- can do is argue back, but, I'm gonna waste time. This little topic is going to merely be a list. That's it. It's what no one wants, but what everyone needs: A list of commands -- not a "discussion" where all anyone can do is talk back to everyone else, plugging their ears and yelling at the top of their lungs like morons. No, it's up to you, the forumer, and the developers to agree or disagree.

There are very intellectually illiterate people who think: The more, the better. This is false. Sometimes what makes a thing good isn't about what it does have, but what it doesn't. The purpose of this thread is to post a list which makes things clear, not just about Dwarf Fortress, but about gaming in general. I gave up on video games, but in the back of my mind I had heard about Dwarf Fortress, when I had played Dwarf Fortress for the long while, I realized it does have some good qualities, but came around to have disappointments as well. All I can do is state the truth, and it's up to you to believe it or not, and no, it's not my fault if you don't listen. I'm also not held responsible because you want to whine about how I "present" what I write -- the content of what's being said, and the objective purpose thereof, is what matters.

A game is a set of functions, and a competition. The earliest games are like when the wolves race each other across the taiga. In a competition/game, your adversary is often equal or superior, and therein is great challenge. The game is strife, without strife, it is not a game. And in that strife, there is risk and reward: Loss and success. It's not a game if there's nothing to lose and or no reward.

What a game must never have -- the curses of modern gaming that ruin games:
Difficulty settings (Path of least resistance, bad gameplay)
Tips, hints, tutorials (Intel, bullshit)
Cutscenes, cinematics (Bullshit)
Maps, compass, GPS (Intel, bad gameplay)
Radar, displays (Intel)
Stealth meter, awareness meters (Intel, bad gameplay)
'Fast travel' features (Path of least resistance, bad gameplay)
Predictability (Bad gameplay)
Turn-based (Bad gameplay)

Anything which gives the player intel, without them actually having to see it for themself, should never be in a game, period. An example is FPS games where for some reason, there's always some "radar" on the bottom left-hand side of the screen, showing where all the enemies are.

Anything which has to explain the game to the player, should never be in a game. It's not learning if someone tells you how to do it. The game secrets are also going to have to change everytime, this way idiots can't just write a wikipage describing away every secret that the game has. Certain gameplay aspects will also have to change, so that the game cannot be explained.

Anything which allows the player to take the path of least resistance without outright hacking the game, should never be part of a game.

The less the player knows, the better. The less that is explained, the better. The less that CAN be explained, even better.

In addition, Dwarf Fortress is remarkably simple. There is no 'high-learning curve' or anything which people have talked about. I have already set out, a long time ago, a flawless system, which would give greater complexity and depth than the Dwarf Fortress game with 1/1000th of the work output, however I am not a game developer, and am not a producer, I merely take the content that is about and ripe. I would not give away these good mechanics, as they would just go to waste on some game full of tips, hints, tutorials, too much intel, "easy difficulty" (not like the hardest difficulty is any more difficult), cutscenes, fugly characters (like the new Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be full of...), and other nonsense. I wrote all my perfect graphs on paper, however I could also remake them with computer image-editing software. Of course for a 3D game, not birds-eye-view.

It is a shame, when I saw such things as 'easy start' crap in the game start settings, due to the graphics mod, my mind sank, almost like a strong "depression", though I do not get depressed. I knew then that it happened again: There can never be anything good. Everything's just gonna be fucked up bullshit because of idiots. Even my brother, who I rarely speak to, and he is avid on "gaming", rarely plays games anymore, cause it's just the same shit over and over again: Tips, hints, tutorials, easy mode, cinematics, story crap, linear gameplay, et cetera. I saw the Dwarf Fortress developer mention making a tutorial and I deleted the game. I was done. I knew then that it's hopeless. Only I can make a good game, and I don't care about making games. I'll just go play golf or something. Everyone I know is stopping playing games, and even people I see about, because developers can't get their shit straight, like with Crysis and World of Warcraft. As if the first Crysis game didn't have enough flaws, the 2nd and 3rd gutted every good thing that the game had. World of Warcraft just gets worse and worse, and I was a top player who quit, though I'm not sure how many of you know about WoW. The gaming environment is a wasteland.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: NJW2000 on September 21, 2018, 08:07:32 am

PTW.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: KittyTac on September 21, 2018, 08:17:31 am

This might be a troll. Considering that he's posted this in GD rather than in Suggestions, this seems like a bait.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on September 21, 2018, 09:09:14 am

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Dwarf Fortress. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of ancient geology most of the minerals will go over a typical player's head. There's also the dwarfs fantasy outlooks, which are deftly woven into their characterisation- their personal philosophy draws heavily from Tolkien, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just cool- they say something deep about MAGMA. As a consequence people who dislike Dwarf Fortress truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the !!cat tallow roast!! in Urist's butcher shop, which itself is a cryptic reference to catsplosions. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Tarn Adam's genius wit unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a dwarf tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the Urists' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 500000 dwarfbucks of my own fort (preferably lower) beforehand.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: voliol on September 21, 2018, 09:25:52 am

Lol Dwarf Fortress already has inbuilt maps, stealth level displays, fast travel, and even a basic, though very outdated, tutorial (just click '?').

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on September 21, 2018, 09:27:09 am

Quote from: voliol on September 21, 2018, 09:25:52 am

Lol Dwarf Fortress already has inbuilt maps, stealth level displays, fast travel, and even a basic, though very outdated, tutorial (just click '?').

That's his point. Apparently he is going to create a game 1000 times more complex using graph paper. There's a hole in his story, though. Why would such a haaardcore gaemuuurr have to use a graphics pack?
_{(This is bait)}

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: TamerVirus on September 21, 2018, 09:34:11 am

Quote from: Bodycarver on September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 am

Only I can make a good game, and I don't care about making games. I'll just go play golf or something.

(http://replygif.net/i/735.gif)

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on September 21, 2018, 09:37:22 am

Quote from: NJW2000 on September 21, 2018, 08:07:32 am

PTW.

It actually cracked me up to see a PTW as the first reply.  :D

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on September 21, 2018, 09:39:00 am

This'll be good. I'll bite.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 09:42:11 am

This is highly entertaining.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on September 21, 2018, 09:49:25 am

gr8 b8 m8, I r8 it 11/10.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on September 21, 2018, 09:50:05 am

Full troll logic. XD

Take Chess as a counter-example:

Quote

What a game must never have -- the curses of modern gaming that ruin games:
Difficulty settings (Chess - to simulate the range of possible human opponents)
Tips, hints, tutorials (Chess again)
Maps, compass, GPS (Well, Chess has a map, no hidden movement)
Radar, displays (Chess again, with that magical units display)
'Fast travel' features (Chess has cheating fast-traveling units as well as the honest-to-goodness pawns))
Predictability (Chess again, very predictable)
Turn-based (Goddamit Chess, y u so bad)

Also I'm not sure if this is DF-specific or a cut and paste job? DF has no in-built tutorial system. It has online tutorials that people have written, but you claim to be playing golf and it's not like there aren't a zillion online guides on playing golf. And of course, golf courses have maps and stuff to guide you around the holes, so that's bad gameplay, right? By yout logic, the only good golf game would be one where there is no map and each time you start playing, the holes have been moved around.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: KittyTac on September 21, 2018, 09:53:02 am

Pretty much ANY game falls afoul of at least one of those.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: TamerVirus on September 21, 2018, 09:54:10 am

I smell the birth of a new copypasta, folks

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Fleeting Frames on September 21, 2018, 10:05:13 am

Hm. Giving player intel, having a map, being bad...Hm, I think that has actually had a solution in the past.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2015, 04:05:42 am

(http://i.imgur.com/BRuGQyL.png)

Existential voidscii

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/RrD6LZH.png)

For when the world is just not unforgiving enough, not large enough, not terrifying enough for the pitiful lives of your Dwarves. The UI is even more streamlined as it has stopped existing. You can't use the look tool to observe anything, and you can only tell that the game is unpaused when your Dwarves are moving.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/vm3et7a.png)

Seeing as how it's rather difficult to exit the game without a visible menu, usually you just have to wait until each blinking Dwarf light dims one by one into nothingness.

Believe it or not, but I actually find this level of Monoscii still playable. Hell, I even once did a short-lived adventure with a blind adventurer:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/YKDI8.png)

It's very possible to survey the land using your Dwarves as guides, and you can tell when they need food or water by their various blinking and you can set up a metal military with scavenged weapons and muscle memory uniform designations.
Which reminds me, I could probably start a blind adventure in new DF...

Sadly, it never got popular enough to introduce into starter pack. I guess it still gave players too much intel.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 10:17:46 am

I especially like how the OP is Batman.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on September 21, 2018, 10:23:02 am

Previously I've respected the Tarn brother's wish to work on the game independently but surely having read this no-one here could possibly argue that they should not immediately assign the OP to an official directorial and/or quality control position as a bare minimum.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 10:24:26 am

Unfortunately, the OP doesn't care about making games. He'd rather play golf or something.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on September 21, 2018, 10:25:01 am

Quote from: DG on September 21, 2018, 10:23:02 am

Previously I've respected the Tarn brother's wish to work on the game independently but surely having read this no-one here could possibly argue that they should not immediately assign the OP to an official directorial and/or quality control position as a bare minimum.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 10:24:26 am

Unfortunately, the OP doesn't care about making games. He'd rather play golf or something.

Imagine DF with golf physics. The very thought is palpable.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on September 21, 2018, 10:28:30 am

The spinning +pigtail mitten+ strikes Urist in the head leaving Bomrek three under par.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on September 21, 2018, 10:35:52 am

I don't like golf.

- Difficulty settings / handicaps.
- In-game tips. Calling things a "sand iron" or a "putting wedge" are dead giveaways. There are also tutorials galore. Plus, on the course, there are ample people (inluding a blatant tutorial character called a 'caddy') who will hand out hints (even if unwanted) about what you're doing. That's clearly a hacky solution by the devs.
- Maps, compass: there are maps and golfers have used compasses.
- Stealth meter, awareness meters - flag on the pin indicates wind direction
- 'Fast travel' features - golf carts
- Predictability - the holes don't magically move around, you can learn the course.
- Turn-based - you take turns hitting your ball, which is clearly bullshit. A proper game would have simultaneous play.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on September 21, 2018, 10:46:35 am

Hm...Compelling points. At least DF can fix some of golf's glaring faults by procedurally generating the equipment for each world and giving them unfamiliar names. The player then has the fun of working out whether, for example, a Borik, which consists of an hourglass metal drum with a leather head, is used to strike the Jrilmis, a glass bell with a single low pitch and a full wavering timbre, or vice-versa.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 10:58:01 am

Quote from: DG on September 21, 2018, 10:46:35 am

Hm...Compelling points. At least DF can fix some of golf's glaring faults by procedurally generating the equipment for each world and giving them unfamiliar names. The player then has the fun of working out whether, for example, a Borik, which consists of an hourglass metal drum with a leather head, is used to strike the Jrilmis, a glass bell with a single low pitch and a full wavering timbre, or vice-versa.

That sounds like an artificial 'learning curve' only intellectually illoopyrate people would want. But myself, I have long ago designed a flawless game with greater depth and complexity and 1/2001th of the work output. I'm not a game designer, but I have it all set out on graphing paper. I'm not going to let anyone to see it, though, since they'd just steal my ideas.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on September 21, 2018, 11:09:31 am

Those damn third party tools ruining this pure game experience. You get a lazy newb starter pack and it's exactly what it says; quel affront! All you had to do dwarf fortress, was one thing - ONE THING and you completly fucked it up... How hard can it be to feature no toturial? I mean sure it's an outdated nothingburger, but then you had to go mention the damn thing anyways, fail. Just ban all youtubers and ddos the wiki FCOL how hard can it be. I'm still generating that same seed from DasTactic's totus only to repeat his contriving step-by-step lists, you would not believe the amount of work it is to dupe his maps from the little intel we got, and all I ever end up with after all that work is the same sterile example sitting around at a random place doing nothing. What a waste of time.  Have you got no pride stupid dwarf fortress players? When it's obvious to a person with no brain how easy this game is before ever playing it. And wtf is it with google answering questions these days, if I type in: "fastest way to play dwarf fortress" it's not supposed to fucking tell me ffs..


I'm not a waste of time because I agree.  8) The only thing left to say is: "how to uninstall dwarf fortress?"

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on September 21, 2018, 11:13:27 am

I'm so excited for the next OP post

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 11:15:37 am

Quote from: dragdeler on September 21, 2018, 11:09:31 am

The only thing left to say is: "how to uninstall dwarf fortress?"

Do you need a tutorial?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on September 21, 2018, 11:20:36 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 11:15:37 am

Quote from: dragdeler on September 21, 2018, 11:09:31 am

The only thing left to say is: "how to uninstall dwarf fortress?"

Do you need a tutorial?

IT'S NOT MY FAULT IF YOU DON'T LISTEN! Go learn to play 3D first, before you talk back to me, birds-eye-view player

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: anewaname on September 21, 2018, 11:57:11 am

Spoiler: "Door 1" (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Bodycarver on September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 am

...because developers can't get their shit straight, like with Crysis and World of Warcraft...

All developers work hard at getting their s**t straight before they code anything, but there are always these nobles who want their weirdly-shaped and half-understood s**ts added alongside the developer's s**ts. The nobles add "assistant" developers to "assist" in adding those weird s**ts and the primary developer adds unlabeled levers for the assistant devs to find, and the drummers keep drumming so the beat goes on.....

---- OR ----

Spoiler: "Door 2" (click to show/hide)

I was the +1 during a visit to someone's house and was immediately bored with the varying pitches of pretense so I went outside to throw the ball for the ignored dog and immediately the dog decided to change the game and play "run near the human but don't give the ball back". So there I was, standing in the yard, being out-gamed by the dog.

---- OR ----

Spoiler: "Door 3" (click to show/hide)

Pick your game and work on improving it; even if your game is trolling.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: overseer05-15 on September 21, 2018, 01:33:11 pm

The only game I can think of that fulfills all of those criteria is Adventure and that's a classic so OP might be on to something

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 01:39:18 pm

Is it possible to laminate and frame a  forum post to save it for later appreciation?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 01:46:18 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 01:39:18 pm

Is it possible to laminate and frame a  forum post to save it for later appreciation?

Do you need a tutorial?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: KittyTac on September 21, 2018, 08:14:57 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 01:46:18 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 01:39:18 pm

Is it possible to laminate and frame a  forum post to save it for later appreciation?

Do you need a tutorial?

Print it and frame it IRL.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Eschar on September 30, 2018, 11:06:10 am

Quote from: KittyTac on September 21, 2018, 08:14:57 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 01:46:18 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 01:39:18 pm

Is it possible to laminate and frame a  forum post to save it for later appreciation?

Do you need a tutorial?

Print it and frame it IRL.

Are you giving hints?!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: overseer05-15 on September 30, 2018, 11:20:11 am

Quote from: Eschar on September 30, 2018, 11:06:10 am

Quote from: KittyTac on September 21, 2018, 08:14:57 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 01:46:18 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 01:39:18 pm

Is it possible to laminate and frame a  forum post to save it for later appreciation?

Do you need a tutorial?

Print it and frame it IRL.

Are you giving hints?!

lllllNllll\!/llllNElllll

Great, now he has a quest marker on his compass.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Eschar on September 30, 2018, 11:26:49 am

Joking aside, NetHack is not going to go well for you with no wiki.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Senator Jim Death on September 30, 2018, 02:25:21 pm

This was an excellent post. Its quality is so high that I considered actually reading it. Ultimately, I did not read it, instead opting to post about it.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on October 01, 2018, 11:02:47 am

Spoiler: tone criticism (click to show/hide)

Quote

I'm also not held responsible because you want to whine about how I "present" what I write -- the content of what's being said, and the objective purpose thereof, is what matters.

This is phrased oddly. Are you saying you're not responsible for the presentation of your writing?

Anyway, I'm going to respond to the apparent content of what's being said in this sentence and the overall post, like you asked. I read this as saying "ignore everything but the meaning of my words." I get that tone criticism can be misused. It can be viewed as a refutation of the content, but it's not a valid counterargument. But not all discussions are debates. What I'm saying isn't meant to discredit you or your argument.

Tone is part of a message. I don't think responsibility is a good term, so I won't use it, but this is similar to saying "you are responsible for your tone". The tone of your message is another level of communication, and it affects how your words will be understood. If the tone you use does not help your words, it is as if your writing is filled with typographical errors. The intended meaning can still be seen, but it takes more effort and many people will simply give up or make assumptions. If someone suggests changing the tone you use, treat it as somebody giving you the preferred spelling of a word. It is to facilitate better communication and discussion. It is not an attack.

Here is an example of the kind of tone criticism I'm talking about (so we aren't talking past each other):

Quote from: Dozebom

What is the goal of your first two paragraphs? If you think you shouldn't post this, then don't. If you think you should, then saying you shouldn't achieves nothing. Similarly, insulting people is not likely to decrease the amount of arguing and yelling. Similarly, "I'm telling you the truth and it's your own fault if you can't see how obviously right I am" isn't a productive sentence. If you want people to believe you, then try improving your tone. If you don't care about whether people believe you, why are you writing about how people don't listen to you? And in the last paragraph, it sounds like you are bragging about your superior mental health. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, but that's what it looks like. If you don't want people to misunderstand you, you should look at your tone.

You are correct that the majority of the difficulty of DF lies in its clunky UI. You are presented with a pile of colored letters, and you interact with them by pressing keys. But once you understand digging, building, etc., you can survive indefinitely as long as you have mud. Turtling is incredibly powerful. Airlocks let you continue to interact with the outside world, but if you don't, you can make all the food and drink you need with a small farm, and that's it. The recent updates have increased the needs of dwarves, but the community fortress Rockfalls (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81183.0) is a great example of this. It's really quite easy to Win once you understand the UI. And it's also quite boring. Beating the computer isn't that fun...

But that's not the point of DF! It was never intended to be You Versus Machine. As the creators have stated, DF is a fantasy world generator. It's all about making narratives. So you do something interesting and see what happens. You impose restrictions on yourself, or set your own goal. Do you want to make a tower out of soap? Feed your entire civilization? Never make anything out of rock, wood, or metal? Make the world's best library? Succession fortresses are fun because you collectively tell a story, and the rapidly changing overseer presents challenges (often in the form of crazy hodgepodge designs).

(The earliest versions were quite different. They were much harder IMO, and there was actually a chain of events that would inexorably lead to the downfall of all fortresses. Winning was impossible. There was no reward at the end. Although this seems opposite to the current version, it's actually the same in an important way. Winning is not the focus. It's the stories you create while trying and the friends you make along the way.)

I'm not saying this is the only good way to make a game. Each game has something that the player can gain from playing it, whether it's the satisfaction of beating a challenge or a memorable story. But keep in mind the differences when you compare games with different goals.

---

You claim that many things are bad game design, but you don't explain why you think that's the case. You just throw out a pejorative and move on.

• Difficulty settings: the point of many games is to present a challenge that can be overcome with effort. Difficulty settings make games accessible to more people, whether they're utter newbs or skilled veterans. Yes, you can choose Easy if your goal is only to Win. You will probably be disappointed, because people don't like Winning in and of itself. They like Winning through challenge. So know thyself, and choose the right setting. (What's it to you if somebody uses an easier setting? Elitism alone doesn't justify anything.)
• Tips, hints, and tutorials: most games (except experimental/meta ones) don't try to put the difficulty into the UI and system. So it makes sense to explain how the system works so that players can move on to the actual playing part.

• Cutscenes and cinematics: if the goal is to tell a story, this can be useful in moderation. Making them skippable opens the game to both story-based and non-story-based players. If story is fluff, you won't like cutscenes and cinematics. That's fine. Not everything needs to be built for people like you.
• Compasses: actual objects that exist in real life. If your complaint is that you don't have to view a compass being pulled out of a bag whenever you check your compass... why? User interfaces exist for a reason.
• Abstractions (maps, stealth meters, health bars): useful shortcuts to convey information more quickly and readably. If your goal is not to simulate the difficulties of keeping track of intelligence while fighting Nazis, but just to simulate the difficulty of not dying to Nazis, then you shouldn't focus on simulating the difficulties of keeping track of intelligence. Games don't have to be about everything.
• Fast-travel: if your goal isn't to simulate the drudgery of traveling long distances, then you shouldn't simulate the drudgery of traveling long distances. I like it when I have the option not to fast-travel sometimes, but I wouldn't gain much from pressing w for an hour whenever I want to go to another town.
• Predictability: if the main goal of a game is very predictable, then it can really only be played once or twice. That's better than zero times. If a side detail is predictable, then that's fine. Unpredictability can be good to a limit (the UI should remain constant, the basic concept of the game should stay the same, unless you're doing a very arty game), but predictability isn't the worst thing.
• Turn-based games: just an abstraction, although one with wide-ranging effects. If your goal isn't to simulate being pressed for time as you do things, turn-based games work fine. In fact, you can still simulate it. It just doesn't extend to the physical player needing to move quickly. The adventurer still only has one minute before the demon is summoned. In DF, the abstracted player interactions with the world correspond to a dwarf making plans. Without a pause button, planning a simple boxy building could take more time than building it. It makes sense that realtime designations shouldn't run at the same ingame pace as when it's unpaused.
• Birds-eye views: third-person is an abstraction that can help the game. Roguelike displays are minimalist. They're just a different way of presenting information.

The point of a game isn't always to learn how the UI works. That's almost never the case.

If someone wants to spoil themselves, they can do that. If you want to discover it yourself, you can do that. Nobody's stopping you.

The path of least resistance always exists. It may be more resistant in an absolute sense, but you can't say "having a path of least resistance is bad."

If nothing can be explained, you don't have a game or a challenge. Unless you mean "you can only learn it in an intuitive sense which cannot be explained with words".

I very much doubt that you have worked out a superior system to Dwarf Fortress v1.0 that you could code in a week by spending some time with graph paper.

You are not the only sane man in a sea of idiots. You're not even the only elitist and overconfident gamer.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2018, 11:19:37 am

The OP's ideal game would be shit.

An unforgiving and fast-paced unpredictable game, with no maps, compass or other direction-finding apparatus, which is designed to change the rules each time you play it, which also forces you to travel long distances in real-time in between the actually interesting parts. It would be confusion and sudden death interspersed with length walking sequences.

So, you spend 1 hour trudging through the wilderness,  not even sure of where you're going because of the lack of any map, compass or other navigation aids, then out of nowhere, some sort of mutant bandits jump out with weapons and spells you've never even heard of before and decimate you, because to give you any feedback about how those enemies actually work, other than your own death, would be hints/tips. There is also no save option, because saving and restoring is for pussies. So when you inevitably die, you start again, but each time we completely randomize how all the different types of enemies work, to keep it unpredictable and ensure you can't learn the game via hints or tips.

And, if you manage to work out how to survive the bandits in one area, then get to another area, the game is designed to ensure that anything you learned before is of the least usefulness possible, to ensure the game is "unpreditable" and cannot be learned or memorized.

To make it extra-good we'll have random pit traps everywhere, in completely unpredictable locations, and make sure they're not marked or labeled in any way that you could notice and avoid them, and give each pit trap a unique timing to that one trap, to ensure you can't just learn some timing to escape from all the traps. Game of the Year edition.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 11:34:04 am

Either a very wordy troll or someone with far too much IQ for their own good. Entertaining either way.

Tip for the OP: it seems that you didn't want anyone to reply to this, due to hating any form of criticism that's directed at yourself. You can prevent people from posting in your thread by locking it.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2018, 11:36:55 am

The idea of randomizing the locations of secrets is especially fucking retarded (excuse the term).

Say you do that, then the way to find the secrets is to click on literally everything. So, you click on every piece of wall in every room, because otherwise you might just miss a room with a secret located in it (since they're entirely random and there's no pattern to where they are located).

That's not good gameplay, it's just repetetive busy-work and a boring "gotcha" if you just play through the thing without being a mega-nerd about clicking on everything.

"randomized secrets each time you play" sounds good on paper, except it doesn't take much actual thought to realize why the idea would actually suck in practice. Whether a game idea is good or bad is all about how it influences the way that people play it, and it would cause player-behavior of needing to have OCD about clicking on everything in the game.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Senator Jim Death on October 01, 2018, 02:29:37 pm

"There is one ideal kind of gameplay" is as stupid and uninformed a statement as "there is one kind of cancer." Gameplay is about allowing a certain class of person to enjoy having fun. That's it. Games are about fun. Perhaps if too many people are having fun with a game then more games will be like that one, but you can't roll a knock-on effect like that into a definition of what makes a game good. Successful games like TES, CS, LoL, PUBG and whatever haven't crowded out other kinds of games.

I know--in fact, it is certain that underlying the "stop having fun" mindset is a deep-seated fear that one's own variety of fun will cease to exist. Stop worrying! That won't ever happen. Or it will, and you'll just have to change with the times. I can't even remember what I was playing obsessively 15 years ago, unless it was Action Half-Life or something. I was a pretty good shot with that shitty little Ruger .22, mostly because it was fun to be at a huge disadvantage and still hold my own. You'd get these assholes flying all over the place like some Korean butterfly sword game thing. Just shoot them.

Anyhow, I guess what I'm saying is shut up and remove yourself from my lawn.

(I acknowledge the "games as art" stuff and have even appreciated a game as art in my time. That's secondary to this discussion and I don't want to talk about it.)

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 02:44:41 pm

Still, it's rather oversimplifying to say that games are only about being fun. Games can be about whatever the creator thinks they should be about! Though if you make a game about having no fun at all performing a repetitive task, it might turn some people away.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: 《monty》 on October 01, 2018, 02:56:34 pm

Quote from: DG on September 21, 2018, 10:46:35 am

Hm...Compelling points. At least DF can fix some of golf's glaring faults by procedurally generating the equipment for each world and giving them unfamiliar names. The player then has the fun of working out whether, for example, a Borik, which consists of an hourglass metal drum with a leather head, is used to strike the Jrilmis, a glass bell with a single low pitch and a full wavering timbre, or vice-versa.

This is a bismuth bronze driver. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is made from bismuth bronze. This object is adorned with rings of goblin bone and menaces with spikes of pitchblende. On the item is an image of Arnold Palmer in emerald cabochons.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2018, 03:17:28 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 02:44:41 pm

Still, it's rather oversimplifying to say that games are only about being fun. Games can be about whatever the creator thinks they should be about! Though if you make a game about having no fun at all performing a repetitive task, it might turn some people away.

There are opinions that the word "fun" holds back some of the understanding of the scope of the medium and can be used against the medium. For example, there was an educational game (an interactive fiction type) about being an African-American slave girl in the pre-civil-war South. (https://www.rt.com/usa/234719-slave-game-education-scandal/) It was blasted for "making oppression fun". In fact, the "game" was like a visual novel, and not really any different to say, watching a movie or reading a textbook about the history of slavery. It was merely an interactive way of presenting it. The critics complain about "winning points" in the game. They've clearly never played it and have an idea of "games" being "fun" and being about "scoring points" that's about 30 years out of date. The term "fun" doesn't help much to dispel those misconceptions about how and why interactive formats are used.

"engaging" is better than fun. Games can be downright depressing or scary as fuck. "fun" sends the wrong message.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 03:21:07 pm

Not that there can't be games that focus on fun over being engaging. They don't really advance the medium, but people like arcade games for a reason.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2018, 03:22:07 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 03:21:07 pm

Not that there can't be games that focus on fun over being engaging. They don't really advance the medium, but people like arcade games for a reason.

engagement includes fun. It's just a neutral term for it that doesn't have the same emotional connotations.

What we mean when we say "games are fun" is that they are engaging.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on October 01, 2018, 05:24:02 pm

I find Alien Isolation fun even though I'm too terrified to play it.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 05:38:13 pm

What's so scary about Allen anyways?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on October 01, 2018, 05:53:55 pm

This may be relevant. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/11/03/i-did-a-thing-on-a-hill/) It discusses games and moving beyond "fun".

Quote

There were never meant to be winners or losers, stockpilers or paupers. There was only supposed to be the experience, weak or strong in individual cases, yet always uncompromising precisely because it is reached through the player’s actions. There are whole swathes of material that perhaps only three players in the entire world have seen. Some characters died a slow death at the end of the game, weak and betrayed. A few never find answers.

No, it certainly wasn’t much fun. However, I feel that this should not be the insult that we have allowed it to become.

Fun is a tyranny. If we believe that this new artform of ours can achieve its potential, that we can instil meaning and myriad interpretation by allowing our audience to actually alter the physical reality of the art itself, then I believe that ‘fun’ is only one, now-rather-tired genre of experience that we should be aiming for. We need to believe in the power of mechanics and of medium, and use ours in a way that is unique, directly tangible in whatever it is that we are trying to say about being us.

Quote

It is through the industry’s conservatism within these devices that so many of the games we make feel unsatisfying or rote. Our reliance on the gilt relics of game design, every possible scalpel, brush and knife rolled up in that word ‘fun’, means that we are making the same games, over and over. Our skill with these repetitive, strategic and qualitative mechanics means that the metaphors and messages which games transmit are of a similarly limited inventory. We produce and play so many games that are about power, loneliness, totalitarianism, banality, isolation and the Kafkaesque, and little else. Of course, The Black Crown Project, set up on its whistling-wind hill and involving the player in a nightmarish administration, is about all of these things. I don’t claim to be anything less than a coward when it comes to finding and using new tools myself. But God forbid that all games be like The Black Crown Project. God forbid any more of my games are like it.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on October 01, 2018, 07:10:20 pm

You say that more is not always better. I agree. More difficulty is not always better.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Blastbeard on October 01, 2018, 07:37:50 pm

Quote

Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have

- Microtransactions
- In-game Purchases
- Excessive DLC
- Voice chat
- Opinions
- Fun

Quote

Bay 12 Games Forum >  Dwarf Fortress >  DF General Discussion >  Post reply ( Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have )

Wait, this isn't Other Games...

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: overseer05-15 on October 02, 2018, 01:06:38 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2018, 03:17:28 pm

There are opinions that the word "fun" holds back some of the understanding of the scope of the medium and can be used against the medium. For example, there was an educational game (an interactive fiction type) about being an African-American slave girl in the pre-civil-war South. (https://www.rt.com/usa/234719-slave-game-education-scandal/) It was blasted for "making oppression fun". In fact, the "game" was like a visual novel, and not really any different to say, watching a movie or reading a textbook about the history of slavery. It was merely an interactive way of presenting it. The critics complain about "winning points" in the game. They've clearly never played it and have an idea of "games" being "fun" and being about "scoring points" that's about 30 years out of date. The term "fun" doesn't help much to dispel those misconceptions about how and why interactive formats are used.

Concept: Escaping the American South as aforementioned slave girl in a vaguely Metal Gear-esque stealth game.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Bumber on October 02, 2018, 01:19:44 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 05:38:13 pm

What's so scary about Allen anyways?

Wikipedia says it was probably the site of Texas's first train robbery. It also says it was the home of the Caddo and Comanche.

Maybe the train passes through an Indian burial ground? Oooooooh~ Spooky!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: overseer05-15 on October 02, 2018, 01:21:48 am

Quote from: Bumber on October 02, 2018, 01:19:44 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 05:38:13 pm

What's so scary about Allen anyways?

Wikipedia says it was probably the site of Texas's first train robbery. It also says it was the home of the Caddo and Comanche.

Maybe the train passes through an Indian burial ground? Oooooooh~ Spooky!

So many bad things happen in america its like it was built on hundreds of indian burial grounds

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on October 02, 2018, 07:39:10 am

Quote from: overseer05-15 on October 02, 2018, 01:21:48 am

Quote from: Bumber on October 02, 2018, 01:19:44 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 05:38:13 pm

What's so scary about Allen anyways?

Wikipedia says it was probably the site of Texas's first train robbery. It also says it was the home of the Caddo and Comanche.

Maybe the train passes through an Indian burial ground? Oooooooh~ Spooky!

So many bad things happen in america its like it was built on hundreds of indian burial grounds

Also weird how the Bible Belt gets hit with all the hurricanes and tornadoes. Almost like God actually hates hypocritical pieces of shit.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: overseer05-15 on October 03, 2018, 07:12:39 am

Quote from: Hanslanda on October 02, 2018, 07:39:10 am

Quote from: overseer05-15 on October 02, 2018, 01:21:48 am

Quote from: Bumber on October 02, 2018, 01:19:44 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 05:38:13 pm

What's so scary about Allen anyways?

Wikipedia says it was probably the site of Texas's first train robbery. It also says it was the home of the Caddo and Comanche.

Maybe the train passes through an Indian burial ground? Oooooooh~ Spooky!

So many bad things happen in america its like it was built on hundreds of indian burial grounds

Also weird how the Bible Belt gets hit with all the hurricanes and tornadoes. Almost like God actually hates hypocritical pieces of shit.

That's rich coming from the Nazi panda who's really a decent fellow.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 03, 2018, 07:42:45 am

Quote from: Hanslanda on October 02, 2018, 07:39:10 am

Also weird how the Bible Belt gets hit with all the hurricanes and tornadoes. Almost like God actually hates hypocritical pieces of shit.

It's not weird. There is in fact a causal link, but going the other way:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4264762/natural-disasters-religious-faith/

Quote

New research from the University of British Columbia suggests that deadly natural disasters can help boost people’s faith.

The study, authored by Oscar Zapata, a post-doctoral researcher in UBC’s school of community and regional planning, found a link between disasters with high rates of death or injury and church attendance by people who already believe in God.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 03, 2018, 09:46:08 am

This thread is not what we were hoping for. Sure, we quickly realised it was conceived in a drive-by insemination by some local regular shoddily disguised as a dark, handsome, insane stranger. But still we wanted to believe he'd stay around, and titillate us some more with his terrible ways. That he'd tell us all those unspeakable things we never knew we needed to hear. Of course, that never happened. Now all the magic is gone, and what's left is a rapidly growing belly of a very mundane derail. The prince is not coming back, and it's too late to abort.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on October 03, 2018, 09:54:02 am

I never believed he'd be coming back, though I do think he's genuine. Fella just nutted off and went on.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 03, 2018, 10:05:20 am

The only decent thing to do is keep this thread alive as long as possible, in loving memory of the gracious visit from one of the true gods of game design theory. May he golf forever in heaven now that he's lost to us.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: KittyTac on October 03, 2018, 10:27:29 am

There should be a Bay12 Hall of Fame for sparking a forum meme.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 03, 2018, 10:28:57 am

Quote from: dragdeler on October 03, 2018, 09:54:02 am

though I do think he's genuine.

I don't know, love. He kinda looked like uncle Pathos under that moustache.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on October 03, 2018, 11:23:48 am

If I had to tell from my homebrewn kitchen psychology: he sucks at any game that spikes his interest because he has a hard time going trough documentation. So he wants to level the playing field with this awesome game that could never exist (haven't we all one?) where everybody would be as bad as him. Frankly I've seen crazier, even considering the fact that he went trough the length of waiting for toady to activate his account.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: shoeless on October 04, 2018, 12:17:32 pm

Not to disregard your post, but I think you should talk to your brother more.  He's family for Armak's sake.

Actually, he's the very game you're looking for:

Difficulty settings (You love and hate your brother, the difficulty lies within you alone)
Tips, hints, tutorials (Unless you were given one of those bullshit brother picture books as a child, you're good here)
Cutscenes, cinematics (Brother ain't got that bullshit)
Maps, compass, GPS (Please tell me you don't have a map of your brother...)
Radar, displays (Don't wear an Apple watch connected to his Apple watch, boom!)
Stealth meter, awareness meters (Don't let your mom let you know how he's doing)
'Fast travel' features (You must walk to his home.  Barefoot.  In winter.  Without your cat.)
Predictability (phaw..)
Turn-based (The only thing turn based about him is his stupid-ass face)

You're welcome.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: NJW2000 on October 04, 2018, 12:18:28 pm

Thank you.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Imic on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

Quote from: overseer05-15 on October 02, 2018, 01:21:48 am

So many bad things happen in america its like it was built on hundreds of indian burial grounds

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 10:17:46 am

I especially like how the OP is Batman.

Quote from: overseer05-15 on October 03, 2018, 07:12:39 am

That's rich coming from the Nazi panda who's really a decent fellow.

I am quoting these.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Imic on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

I am quoting this.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: This on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Imic on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: This on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Imic on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

This is quoting myself

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 04:13:06 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: This on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Imic on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

This is quoting myself

That's not this. That's you.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 04:55:31 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 04:13:06 am

I am quoting all the future quotes!

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

This is quoting myself

That's not this. That's you.

No it's not, it's you quoting all the way down, in an infinite loop.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on October 05, 2018, 04:57:48 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 04:55:31 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 04:13:06 am

I am quoting all the future quotes!

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

This is quoting myself

That's not this. That's you.

No it's not, it's you quoting all the way down, in an infinite loop.

Shoopity doop loop!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: King Zultan on October 05, 2018, 06:03:16 am

Quote from: CABL on October 05, 2018, 04:57:48 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 04:55:31 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 04:13:06 am

I am quoting all the future quotes!

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

This is quoting myself

That's not this. That's you.

No it's not, it's you quoting all the way down, in an infinite loop.

Shoopity doop loop!

Boop Boop Infinite Loop!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 06:07:36 am

Heyyy, guyze. Read the OP in Trump's voice. It all makes sense now.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on October 05, 2018, 06:10:32 am

Now we have to do the montage, are there any decent Trump impersonators around?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on October 05, 2018, 08:40:02 am

Nah, I've got something better.

Spoiler: Gizoogle (click to show/hide)

Quote

I be goin ta be reasonable when I should not be. I know straight-up well dat all forumers -- up in fact mah playas -- can do be argue back yo, but, I'ma waste time. This lil topic is goin ta merely be a list. Thatz dat shit. It aint nuthin but what tha fuck no one wants yo, but what tha fuck mah playas needs: A list of commandz -- not a "discussion" where all mah playas can do is rap back ta any suckas, pluggin they ears n' yellin all up in tha top of they lungs like morons. Fuck dat shit, itz up ta you, tha forumer, n' tha pimpers ta smoke or disagree.

There is straight-up intellectually illiterate playas whoz ass think: Da more, tha mo' betta n' shit. This is false. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. Sometimes what tha fuck cook up a thang phat aint bout what tha fuck it do have yo, but what tha fuck it don't. Da purpose of dis thread is ta post a list which make thangs clear, not just bout Dwarf Fortress yo, but bout gamin up in general. It aint nuthin but tha nick nack patty wack, I still gots tha bigger sack. I gave up on vizzle game yo, but up in tha back of mah mind I had heard bout Dwarf Fortress, when I had played Dwarf Fortress fo' tha long while, I realized it do have some phat qualitizzles yo, but came round ta have disappointments as well fo' realz. All I can do is state tha real deal, n' itz up ta you ta believe it or not, n' no, it aint mah fault if you don't listen. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. I be also not held responsible cuz you wanna whine bout how tha fuck I "present" what tha fuck I write -- tha content of whatz bein holla'd, n' tha objectizzle purpose thereof, is what tha fuck matters.

A game be a set of functions, n' a cold-ass lil competition. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. Da earliest game is like when tha wolves race each other across tha taiga. In a cold-ass lil competition/game, yo' adversary is often equal or superior, n' therein is pimped out challenge. Da game is strife, without strife, it aint a game fo' realz. And up in dat strife, there is risk n' reward: Loss n' success. It aint nuthin but not a game if there be a not a god damn thang ta lose n' or no reward.

What a game must never have -- tha cursez of modern gamin dat fuck up games:
Difficulty shiznit (Path of least resistance, shitty gameplay)
Tips, hints, tutorials (Intel, bullshit)
Cutscenes, cinematics (Bullshit)
Maps, compass, GPS (Intel, shitty gameplay)
Radar, displays (Intel)
Stealth meter, awarenizz metas (Intel, shitty gameplay)
'Fast travel' features (Path of least resistance, shitty gameplay)
Predictabilitizzle (Shiznitty gameplay)
Turn-based (Shiznitty gameplay)

Anythang which gives tha playa intel, without dem straight-up havin ta peep it fo' themself, should never be up in a game, period. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! An example is FPS game where fo' some reason, there be a always some "radar" on tha bottom left-hand side of tha screen, showin where all tha enemies are.

Anythang which has ta explain tha game ta tha playa, should never be up in a game. It aint nuthin but not peepin' if one of mah thugs  drops some lyrics ta you how tha fuck ta do dat shit. Da game secrets is also goin ta gotta chizzle everytime, dis way idiots can't just write a wikipage describin away every last muthafuckin secret dat tha game has. Certain gameplay aspects will also gotta chizzle, so dat tha game cannot be explained.

Anythang which allows tha playa ta take tha path of least resistizzle without outright jackin tha game, should never be part of a game.

Da less tha playa knows, tha mo' betta n' shit. Da less dat is explained, tha mo' betta n' shit. Da less dat CAN be explained, even better.

In addition, Dwarf Fortress is remarkably simple. There is no 'high-learnin curve' or anythang which playas have talked about. I have already set out, a long-ass time ago, a gangbangin' flawless system, which would give pimped outa complexitizzle n' depth than tha Dwarf Fortress game wit 1/1000th of tha work output, however I aint a game pimper, n' be not a baller, I merely take tha content dat be bout n' ripe. I would not give away these phat mechanics, as they would just git all up in waste on some game full of tips, hints, tutorials, too much intel, "easy difficulty" (not like tha hardest hang-up be any mo' difficult), cutscenes, fugly charactas (like tha freshly smoked up Elder Scrolls 6 is goin ta be full of...), n' other nonsense. I freestyled all mah slick graphs on paper, however I could also remake dem wit computa image-editin software. Of course fo' a 3D game, not birds-eye-view.

It be a gangbangin' finger-lickin' dirty-ass shame, when I saw such thangs as 'easy start' crap up in tha game start settings, cuz of tha graphics mod, mah mind sank, almost like a phat "depression", though I do not git pissed off. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! I knew then dat it happened again: There can never be anythang good. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! I be fly as a gangbangin' falcon, soarin all up in tha sky dawwwwg! Everythingz just gonna be fucked up bullshit cuz of idiots, n' you can put dat on yo' toast. Even mah brother, whoz ass I rarely drop a rhyme to, n' he be avid on "gaming", rarely skits game no mo', cause itz just tha same shiznit over n' over again: Tips, hints, tutorials, easy as fuck  mode, cinematics, rap crap, linear gameplay, et cetera. I saw tha Dwarf Fortress pimper mention bustin a tutorial n' I deleted tha game. I was done. I knew then dat itz hopeless. Only I can cook up a phat game, n' I couldn't give a fuckin shiznit bout makin games. I be bout ta just go play golf or something. Everyone I know is stoppin playin games, n' even playas I peep about, cuz pimpers can't git they shiznit straight, like wit Crysis n' Ghetto of Bullshiznit fo' realz. As if tha straight-up original gangsta Crysis game didn't have enough flaws, tha 2nd n' 3rd gutted every last muthafuckin phat thang dat tha game had. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! Ghetto of Bullshiznit just gets worse n' worse, n' I was a top playa whoz ass quit, though I aint shizzle how tha fuck nuff of y'all know bout WoW. Da gamin environment be a wasteland.

This thread is turning into a shitposting ground, like that Strangest Shit Ever thread.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on October 05, 2018, 11:26:11 am

I'm dying.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 05, 2018, 02:45:07 pm

Quote from: CABL on October 05, 2018, 08:40:02 am

Now this is copypasta!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: King Zultan on October 06, 2018, 05:33:35 am

I like this version better than the original.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Cathar on October 06, 2018, 07:25:10 am

Quote from: Bodycarver on September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 am

There are very intellectually illiterate people who think

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little gorlak ? I'll have you know I graduated top of my squad in the Rough Lovers, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Goblin Civs, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top axeman in the entire dwarven armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this procedurially generated world, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of dancers across the civ and your location is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot man. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of steel masterwork grade weapons and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Blastbeard on October 06, 2018, 06:48:00 pm

Quote from: Cathar on October 06, 2018, 07:25:10 am

Quote from: Bodycarver on September 21, 2018, 08:00:34 am

There are very intellectually illiterate people who think

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little gorlak ? I'll have you know I graduated top of my squad in the Rough Lovers, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Goblin Civs, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top axeman in the entire dwarven armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this procedurially generated world, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of dancers across the civ and your location is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot man. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of steel masterwork grade weapons and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

What tha elf did you just elfin say bout me, you lil kobold , biatch? I be bout ta have you know I graduated top of mah squad up in tha Rough Lovers, n' I've been involved up in a gangbangin' finger-lickin' dirty-ass shitload of secret raidz on Goblin Civs, n' I have over 300 confirmed kills. I be trained up in gorilla warfare n' I be tha top blowgunner up in tha entire dwarven armed forces. Yo ass aint a god damn thang ta me but just another target. I'ma wipe you tha elf up wit precision tha likez of which has never been peeped before on dis procedurially generated ghetto, mark mah elfin lyrics. Yo ass be thinkin you can git away wit sayin dat shiznit ta me over tha Internet, biatch? Think again, elfer n' shiznit fo' realz fo' realz. As our phat asses drop a rhyme I be contactin mah secret network of breakdancers across tha civ n' yo' location is bein traced right now so you betta prepare fo' tha storm, maggot man. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. Da storm dat wipes up tha pathetic lil thang you call yo' game. Yo ass is elfin dead, kid. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! I can be anywhere, anytime, n' I can bust a cold-ass lil cap up in you up in over seven hundred ways, n' thatz just wit mah bare hands. Not only is I extensively trained up in unarmed combat yo yo, but I have access ta tha entire arsenal of steel masterwork grade weapons n' I'ma use it ta its full extent ta wipe yo' miserable ass off tha grill of tha continent, you lil shit. If only you could have known what tha fuck unholy retribution yo' lil "clever" comment was bout ta brang down upon you, maybe you would have held yo' elfin tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, n' now you payin tha price, you goddamn idiot. I'ma shiznit fury all over you n' yo big-ass booty is ghon drown up in dat shit. Yo ass is elfin dead, kiddo.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Cathar on October 06, 2018, 07:26:56 pm

This is the best thread ever

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 06, 2018, 08:13:25 pm

you know what's also fun? Gizoogling anime synopses

Haruhi Suzimiya Review (https://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=942)

Quote

Back up in tha day, Kyon wanted ta believe dat aliens, time travelers, n' ESPers was real. It aint nuthin but tha nick nack patty wack, I still gots tha bigger sack. By tha time his thugged-out lil' punk-ass busted tha fuck outta middle school, he realized these thangs was only ta be found on televizzle, n' not up in tha realm of reality. So Kyon was straight-up prepared ta live a normal, uneventful high school game ... until tha straight-up original gangsta dizzle of school, when she came tha fuck into his ghetto. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass.

Her name was Suzumiya Haruhi, n' dat biiiiatch was not up in tha least bit horny bout aiiight human beings yo, but rather, sought tha company of aliens, time travelers, n' ESPers, up in order ta find n' solve tha mysteries round her n' shit.

Of course, not a god damn thang of tha sort straight-up exists yo, but Kyon made tha fuck up of humorin her - n' became tha straight-up original gangsta underlin up in tha newest club on campus, tha SOS Brigade, savin tha ghetto one mystery at a time.

Now Kyon was bout ta smoke up just how tha fuck thoroughly Suzumiya Haruhi was goin ta chizzle his bangin realitizzle alllll muthafuckin day.

Death Note Review (https://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=1000)

Quote

Yagami Light be as slick a pimp as you could imagine--slick grades, slick hood record, slick looks--in every last muthafuckin facet, his crazy-ass muthafuckin image is squeaky clean. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch.

This all endz one fateful dizzle when tha Shinigami known as Ryuk drops his Dirtnap Note outta tha realm of tha afterlife, tha fuck into Lightz schoolyard. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! Light stumblez across it n' readz tha directions: write tha name of tha thug you want dead up in tha Dirtnap Note--with they image up in yo' mind--and they will take a thugged-out dirtnap up in tha manner you have specified up in dis supernatural journal. It aint nuthin but tha nick nack patty wack, I still gots tha bigger sack. Otherwise, if tha circumstizzle aint specified up in writing, tha sucka will, within minutes, suffer a gangbangin' fatal ass attack.

Thinkin it a wack prank initially, Light puts it ta tha test when savin a innocent biatch from bein assaulted. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! This type'a shiznit happens all tha time. To his horror, it works. Could riddin tha ghetto of criminals be dis easy as fuck , biatch?

Inspired wit a freshly smoked up renewed sense of justice, Light indulges his dirty ass straight-up up in his newfound power, self-righteously declarin his dirty ass tha branger of a new, utopian future--

--one name at a time.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Blastbeard on October 06, 2018, 08:43:34 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 06, 2018, 08:13:25 pm

you know what's also fun? Gizoogling anime synopses

Just be shizzle you don't peep a anime lableled boku, playa

Quote

Man dis shiznit is so wack up in all kindsa muthafuckin motherfuckin levels yo…I was poppin' off ta one of mah white playaz n' da perved-out muthafucka busted mah crazy ass 3 vizzlez wit tha name only labeled "Boku" I holla'd ta dis dude, Whatz dis shit, biatch? Dude just giggled n' holla'd "Just peep dem n' MAKE SURE NOBODY IS AROUND YOU WHEN WATCHING IT!" Then I thought dat shiznit was some weird porno or some strange shiznit but as I peeped tha straight-up original gangsta vizzle, I was like "Yo…..what tha fuck.." THEN IT CONTINUED n' I was like "Yoooooooooooooooooooooooo……." THEN THEY GOT IN THE MOTHERFUCKING CAR AND THEN I SAID "YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I couldn't fuckin believe what tha fuck I just saw, Dat shiznit was like Satan gave me his thugged-out lil' porno collection, shiznit was so disturbing..YET I COULDN'T STOP WATCHING IT, THEN VIDEO TWO AND IT WAS TWO OF THEM…..THOSE ELVES…YOOOOOOO…….THOSE ELVES….AND THAT GIRL SAW THEM THEN SHE…YYYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO… THEN THAT ELF TOOK THAT DOG TOY THEN YYYYYYYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO……..IT WAS LIKE YOUR BIZZNITCH WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU BUT SHE WANTED TO SOMETHING "DIFFERENT" AND IT WAS SO FUCKED UP AND CREEPY, YOU JUST…KEPT WATCHING IT…AND THAT'S WHAT I FUCKING DID!!!!! THEN I SAW VIDEO THREE…THREE ELVES…THRRREEEEE!!!!!! IT…WAS…THHHHHHRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! AND COCO WAS HIS NAME ELF, COCO WAS HIS MOTHERFUCKING NAME!!!!!! OH MY GOD,I AIN'T GOING TO HEAVEN ELVES, I ALREADY SOLD MY SOUL TO LUCIFER!

So I Just wanna rap  all n' aint a thugged-out damn thang dat yo' ass can do..DON'T WATCH AN ANIME LABELED BOKU, DON'T DO IT ELF, IT'S LIKE SUCCUBUS. REMEMBER WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU ELVES!"

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on October 07, 2018, 03:17:40 am

Quote from: Blastbeard on October 06, 2018, 08:43:34 pm

Gizoogle uses N-word all of a sudden? I suggest editing them out, if you don't want to get banned. Just a friendly note to save you from Toady's wrath.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 07, 2018, 03:31:00 am

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCLUUUUUUUUUUUNG woooooooooosh...oh yes my dear....woooooooooooooooosh....quite menacing indeed...is that....dare I say....wooooooooooooooosh...spikes I see?......CLANG CLANG....hmmm...yes...quite so my darling....CLANG....quite menacing spikes yes very much so .....WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH....ah yes...and also....a glimpse of of....CLANG....hanging rings.....quite dwarven my dear....CLANG...but oh yes...this will do nicely....CLANG.....please my dear....some microcline studs if you please........ WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

Oh yes...very good!....very high craftsdwarfship my dear....hmmmmm...is that a wafer of adamantine I see in the workshop?...hmmmm.....let me.....let me just have a little feel before the hanging rings my darling.......hmmmmm....hmm..yes....that is a delicate bit of adamantine....ah yes....let me guess... blood curdling screams ring out from below?....oh quite right I am....aren't I?....ok....time for rings.....CLAAAAAAAAAAAAANG.....hmmm...hhhmmmmm I see...yes....yes indeed as well blood curdling screams from below......hmmm....that sound is quite noticeable....yes.....ass brutes and cavy sow horrors i take it?.....hmmmmm....yes quite.....

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Imic on October 07, 2018, 04:47:38 pm

Quote from: George_Chickens on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on October 05, 2018, 03:56:37 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 03:54:25 am

Quote from: This on October 05, 2018, 03:27:30 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2018, 02:54:10 am

Quote from: Imic on October 05, 2018, 02:04:13 am

I am quoting these.

I am quoting this.

This is quoting you.

This is quoting myself

I am quoting this as well.

To the OP: If you knew anything at all about this forum before you came here, you would never have posted this. If you had ever seen us react to people like this before, you would never have dona anything. You have not come upon some part of the internet where all that will be done is that people will argue endlessly against your points, or be baited easily, or even gather to discuss how shit you are. You have come across a different place. You have come upon Bay12. And we will never. Ever let you forget that.

Unless we forget first.
[/meme]

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 07, 2018, 10:58:59 pm

Quote from: Imic on October 07, 2018, 04:47:38 pm

To the OP: If you knew anything at all about this forum before you came here, you would never have posted this. If you had ever seen us react to people like this before, you would never have dona anything. You have not come upon some part of the internet where all that will be done is that people will argue endlessly against your points, or be baited easily, or even gather to discuss how shit you are. You have come across a different place. You have come upon Bay12. And we will never. Ever let you forget that.
[/meme]

Well, I disagree. I think we have been baited into torrential shitposting quite handily.

That's why I like to think it was some disgruntled old grognard, wanting to rekindle their nostalgic memories of endless battlefields of Virtual Nonsense. And, oh, did they play us like a well-tuned guitar.

It's either that, or Donnie Trump thinks we're a constituency, so he sent one of his interns to woo us with his trademark charm and ironclad logic.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 07, 2018, 11:08:55 pm

Does it matter if the OP's bait was successful or averted? This is our thread now. Death of the author. ;P

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Imic on October 08, 2018, 02:54:26 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 07, 2018, 10:58:59 pm

Quote from: Imic on October 07, 2018, 04:47:38 pm

To the OP: If you knew anything at all about this forum before you came here, you would never have posted this. If you had ever seen us react to people like this before, you would never have dona anything. You have not come upon some part of the internet where all that will be done is that people will argue endlessly against your points, or be baited easily, or even gather to discuss how shit you are. You have come across a different place. You have come upon Bay12. And we will never. Ever let you forget that.
[/meme]

Well, I disagree. I think we have been baited into torrential shitposting quite handily.

Fuck.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 08, 2018, 07:06:25 am

I disagree, and state that it is impossible to bait a forum into shitposting in the same way it is impossible to bait the tide into coming in.

Long Live The xXpostXx

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Blastbeard on October 08, 2018, 09:29:36 am

[TRAPAVOID] be like

(https://i.postimg.cc/3x3p3b7T/firlbisposting.png)

I've improved my tracing. That was very satisfying.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 08, 2018, 09:34:58 am

This is so sad.  :'(

Can we please burn a thousand kobold settlements to the ground?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on October 08, 2018, 09:36:48 am

Can't really burn a cave to the ground, though.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 08, 2018, 09:37:22 am

Quote from: DG on October 08, 2018, 09:36:48 am

Can't really burn a cave to the ground, though.

Not with that attitude.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: DG on October 08, 2018, 09:41:18 am

Quote from: CABL on October 05, 2018, 08:40:02 am

Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass.

>:(

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 08, 2018, 10:04:10 am

Honestly, by killing kobolds, you're doing them (and the world) a favour. The thieving buggers deserve a kick up the arse. Or a magma down the cave, to be more specific.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Blastbeard on October 08, 2018, 10:19:17 am

Fun fact: Kobolds taste exactly like birdseed.

Source: That roc right down there

(https://i.postimg.cc/hP2TMWN5/killstreaks_engaged.png)
That's not the date, that's the kill count. All of them kobolds.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: TamerVirus on October 08, 2018, 10:20:23 am

Why are we still here?
Just to suffer shitpost?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Imic on October 08, 2018, 10:52:47 am

Quote from: TamerVirus on October 08, 2018, 10:20:23 am

Why are we still here?
Just to suffer shitpost?

Pretty much. At this point, it’s outpr only purpose in life, at least until the Hackers steal that, too.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 08, 2018, 12:14:48 pm

Quote from: TamerVirus on October 08, 2018, 10:20:23 am

Why are we still here?
Just to suffer shitpost?

I can feel my words, my profanities, even my incoherence. The time I've lost... the accounts I've lost. You feel it too, don't you?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 08, 2018, 01:29:04 pm

I'm going to make them give back our memes.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: NAV on October 09, 2018, 01:27:25 am

Its 2 AM and I return to the upper boards for the first time in forever and this is the first threat I visit. Bay12 still has it. Never change :)

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: feelotraveller on October 09, 2018, 01:37:52 am

Kids! Stop playing and do the OP homework. Or there'll be no dwarf fortress before bed.  >:(

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Reelya on October 09, 2018, 04:18:46 pm

Quote from: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

The real real question is can we implement dwarven golf in the game?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on October 09, 2018, 04:34:31 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 09, 2018, 04:18:46 pm

The real real question is can we implement dwarven golf in the game?

Considering how awkard it would be in adventure mode, it's criminal that we didn't yet.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on October 09, 2018, 04:37:35 pm

Quote from: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

Because golf is a stupid and inefficient sport for lazy judgemental entitled rich people, such as the OP or the current occupant of the white house.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: NJW2000 on October 09, 2018, 04:45:40 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 09, 2018, 04:37:35 pm

the OP or the current occupant of the white house.

Now you can call me crazy

But

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Senator Jim Death on October 09, 2018, 10:10:45 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 09, 2018, 04:37:35 pm

Quote from: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

Because golf is a stupid and inefficient sport for lazy judgemental entitled rich people, such as the OP or the current occupant of the white house.

Now, now. Let's be fair. Plenty of golfers only wish they were rich.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: King Zultan on October 10, 2018, 06:38:39 am

Quote from: Senator Jim Death on October 09, 2018, 10:10:45 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 09, 2018, 04:37:35 pm

Quote from: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

Because golf is a stupid and inefficient sport for lazy judgemental entitled rich people, such as the OP or the current occupant of the white house.

Now, now. Let's be fair. Plenty of golfers only wish they were rich.

We can all be poor and golf together.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 10, 2018, 06:41:55 am

Quote from: NJW2000 on October 09, 2018, 04:45:40 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 09, 2018, 04:37:35 pm

the OP or the current occupant of the white house.

Now you can call me crazy

But

I know, right? It all fits. The love of golf, the self-aggrandizement, the strained relationship with his brother (he's dead, Donnie, let him go!)...

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: dragdeler on October 10, 2018, 06:51:42 am

My father gave me a small coding tuto,  I'm a selfmade triple A developper. Everybody says so.

Well at least he's reasonable even when he shouldn't be.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: TamerVirus on October 10, 2018, 02:14:10 pm

Quote from: NJW2000 on October 09, 2018, 04:45:40 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 09, 2018, 04:37:35 pm

the OP or the current occupant of the white house.

Now you can call me crazy

But

♪ here's my number, call me maybe?♪

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on October 10, 2018, 03:58:58 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 01:39:18 pm

Is it possible to laminate and frame a  forum post to save it for later appreciation?

well, if you pay enough, i'll handwrite it with ink and feather in Quadrata Antiqua on high quality parchment, build a frame to your liking, even decorate the frame either with other material or engrave the frame and send it to you.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Blastbeard on October 11, 2018, 07:04:49 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 08, 2018, 01:29:04 pm

I'm going to make them give back our memes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.postimg.cc/d3ZGzscR/x_Loss_x.png)
You too have known LOSS
and Loss torments you still.

You hope memes might someday replace the pain.
But it never goes away. It makes a man cringe, inside AND out.

Wouldn't you agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 11, 2018, 08:13:18 am

SUCH A LUST FOR MICROCLINE
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Rockeater on October 11, 2018, 10:05:21 am

Damnit, this thread show up too much in out of context, gotta see what the hell going on here

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 11, 2018, 10:39:39 am

Quote from: Rockeater on October 11, 2018, 10:05:21 am

Damnit, this thread show up too much in out of context, gotta see what the hell going on here

Don't you have better things to do? Like playing golf or something?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Rockeater on October 11, 2018, 10:51:23 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 11, 2018, 10:39:39 am

Quote from: Rockeater on October 11, 2018, 10:05:21 am

Damnit, this thread show up too much in out of context, gotta see what the hell going on here

Don't you have better things to do? Like playing golf or something?

I mean, I need to do something while getting to where the ball landed

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: 《monty》 on October 11, 2018, 11:33:41 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 09, 2018, 04:18:46 pm

Quote from: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

The real real question is can we implement dwarven golf in the game?

Anyone know how to mod catapults to fire goblin captives?

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on October 11, 2018, 01:10:38 pm

Quote from: 《monty》 on October 11, 2018, 11:33:41 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 09, 2018, 04:18:46 pm

Quote from: King Zultan on October 09, 2018, 06:58:49 am

Why are we all posting in this thread when we could be like the OP and play some golf instead.

The real real question is can we implement dwarven golf in the game?

Anyone know how to mod catapults to fire goblin captives?

I hereby preorder 3!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: KittyTac on October 11, 2018, 08:11:05 pm

Golf in DF? You find a well and a nearby peasant. Then you strangle the peasant exactly once so that he passes out. Then you jump into him to launch the peasant towards the well. You win when you drown the peasant by launching him into the well.

Catapults aren't moddable, sorry.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: bloop_bleep on October 12, 2018, 10:06:18 pm

Minecart containing a goblin in a cage ramming into a fortification has the same effect, though.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: GoblinCookie on October 13, 2018, 07:30:07 am

Quote from: KittyTac on October 11, 2018, 08:11:05 pm

Golf in DF? You find a well and a nearby peasant. Then you strangle the peasant exactly once so that he passes out. Then you jump into him to launch the peasant towards the well. You win when you drown the peasant by launching him into the well.

Catapults aren't moddable, sorry.

By the sound of it it's a good thing they aren't moddable.   ;) ;)

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: KittyTac on October 13, 2018, 08:13:52 pm

Quote from: GoblinCookie on October 13, 2018, 07:30:07 am

Quote from: KittyTac on October 11, 2018, 08:11:05 pm

Golf in DF? You find a well and a nearby peasant. Then you strangle the peasant exactly once so that he passes out. Then you jump into him to launch the peasant towards the well. You win when you drown the peasant by launching him into the well.

Catapults aren't moddable, sorry.

By the sound of it it's a good thing they aren't moddable.   ;) ;)

Bad thing, you mean. 8) :P

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 14, 2018, 05:06:16 am

Dwarven minecart railgun golf is a human right.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Rockeater on October 14, 2018, 05:54:26 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on October 14, 2018, 05:06:16 am

Dwarven minecart railgun golf is a human right.

My problem with that is that it would be very hard to move, but you would be able to control the power, so I don't know.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: anewaname on October 14, 2018, 08:55:36 pm

You could have a maxi-golf game, where the ball is too big to be move with a stick, so a dwarf needs to carry it through the golf course. It should be dangerous of course.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Bumber on October 15, 2018, 01:24:24 am

If the ball lands in the magma hazard, you can have your elf caddy retrieve it.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Inarius on October 15, 2018, 04:41:43 am

Well, i was thinking of something. Like a very large room with holes. And a drawbridge. And levers. And goblins.

Not really  golf, but still better than nothing. Maybe it's pinball instead ?

but how to add less...PREDICTABILITY ?
This is bad gameplay.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Lozzymandias on October 19, 2018, 06:20:15 am

I very nearly responded to this thread without reading all the comedy gold that it contained

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on October 19, 2018, 08:11:18 am

[Obligatory shitpost]

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on October 19, 2018, 08:25:00 am

Quote from: Hanslanda on October 19, 2018, 08:11:18 am

[Obligatory shitpost]

[Obligatory positive reaction to shitpost]

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: George_Chickens on October 19, 2018, 09:33:30 am

What a thrill
With magma and biscuits through the night
What a thrill
It's searching to melt into you
What a flame in my !!fat!!
But you're so masterwork!

I give my life, not for honor, but for XxGiant Cave Spider Silk SocksxX
In my time there'll be no one else
Crime, it's the way I hammer you
My still's brewing things!
Plump helmet!

Some day you'll go through the rain
Some day you'll stumble around babbling
It's ordeal, the trial to survive
For the day we see new light

I give my life, not for honor, but for XxGiant Cave Spider Silk SocksxX
In my time there'll be no one else
Crime, it's the way I hammer you
My still's brewing things!
Plump helmet!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Rowanas on October 25, 2018, 10:15:41 am

Quote from: Inarius on October 15, 2018, 04:41:43 am

Well, i was thinking of something. Like a very large room with holes. And a drawbridge. And levers. And goblins.

Not really  golf, but still better than nothing. Maybe it's pinball instead ?

but how to add less...PREDICTABILITY ?
This is bad gameplay.

I'm currently working out to do such a thing.  I think it's possible by abusing pathing to get the "balls"(goblins) to go "down", and have levers to toggle the "bats" (bridges). Pressure plates set to activate once on weight ensure that any sufficiently large bodypart will increment a score tracker., which is relatively easy as a digital display in raised and lowered bridges. at the top.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: BlueKanary on October 25, 2018, 12:14:28 pm

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171812.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171812.0)
You can't troll those who looks at a game philosophically then questions our own existence

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2018, 01:01:03 pm

This thread validates my concerns that MonoSCII is the only acceptable way to play DF

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on November 11, 2018, 02:28:07 pm

Being able to see anything is overrated.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2018, 02:33:37 pm

It gives the player information

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Egan_BW on November 11, 2018, 03:59:44 pm

What, you use a monitor to play df? But that gives you information!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2018, 04:25:56 pm

Playing DF generates information; the only way to truly play DF is to not exist, therefore generating zero information in time or space

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on November 11, 2018, 07:04:48 pm

Goddamnit, stop giving us information!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: taat on November 13, 2018, 05:24:07 am

This person would probably love corin's mystery dungeon, sad that he is no longer with us.
Wait, no. The starting screen tells you which buttons can be used.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on November 14, 2018, 06:04:01 pm

In an intrinsic fashion, the subtlety of the morphological constraints of the game irrevocably alter the presented information by predetermined heuristic systems, inevitably leading to the transmission of direct evidence to the user which presents a philosophical problem inasmuch as such fallaciously corrected conclusionary bias allows generation of such a stance as was investigated in the preliminary assessment of the tautological authorial report.

Did that mean anything? I tried real hard to make sure it didn't.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: overseer05-15 on November 14, 2018, 08:31:28 pm

I'm pretty sure you just said, approximately, "By playing the game, you obtain information related to the game."

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on November 14, 2018, 08:34:40 pm

Quote from: overseer05-15 on November 14, 2018, 08:31:28 pm

I'm pretty sure you just said, approximately, "By playing the game, you obtain information related to the game."

What I meant to say was, "Shitpost."

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Madman198237 on November 14, 2018, 09:07:37 pm

Quote from: Hanslanda on November 14, 2018, 08:34:40 pm

Quote from: overseer05-15 on November 14, 2018, 08:31:28 pm

I'm pretty sure you just said, approximately, "By playing the game, you obtain information related to the game."

What I meant to say was, "Shitpost."

You succeeded on a level that you didn't even mean to succeed at. I think that's like, success-ception or something.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on November 14, 2018, 09:17:21 pm

Well, I'd rather play golf or something, than succeed.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Jdorf on November 15, 2018, 01:10:52 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on November 14, 2018, 09:17:21 pm

Well, I'd rather play golf or something, than succeed.

In which case, of course, you'd be succeeding at playing golf. Like some kind of intellectual illiterate.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 02:07:30 pm

The only way to play golf is to not play

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on November 16, 2018, 02:15:03 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on November 14, 2018, 09:07:37 pm

Quote from: Hanslanda on November 14, 2018, 08:34:40 pm

Quote from: overseer05-15 on November 14, 2018, 08:31:28 pm

I'm pretty sure you just said, approximately, "By playing the game, you obtain information related to the game."

What I meant to say was, "Shitpost."

You succeeded on a level that you didn't even mean to succeed at. I think that's like, success-ception or something.

I might sig this when I get home...

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Il Palazzo on November 16, 2018, 08:46:57 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 02:07:30 pm

The only way to play golf is to not play

I've never realised how avid a golfer I am.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Jdorf on November 17, 2018, 08:22:58 am

Quote

I've never realised how avid a golfer I am.

Realising things is just giving yourself information. Scrub.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on November 20, 2018, 02:45:42 am

Since the brain is a biological tool to process information, I've removed it from my body. Well, I've also removed my nasal cavities (gives info about smells), my tongue (gives info about taste), and my eyeballs (gives visual info). Get on my level, skr00bs.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Rockeater on November 20, 2018, 03:19:20 am

Ha, you n00b, still have a info of touch and temperature, I removed all of my Neurons, I don't have info of anything!!!

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on November 20, 2018, 03:40:22 am

Quote from: Rockeater on November 20, 2018, 03:19:20 am

Ha, you n00b, still have a info of touch and temperature, I removed all of my name, I don't have info of anything!!!

The universe contains and is made of information, therefore, it needs to be removed.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Hanslanda on November 20, 2018, 08:02:33 am

Quote from: CABL on November 20, 2018, 03:40:22 am

Quote from: Rockeater on November 20, 2018, 03:19:20 am

Ha, you n00b, still have a info of touch and temperature, I removed all of my name, I don't have info of anything!!!

The universe contains and is made of information, therefore, it needs to be removed.

Bay12: Give us a Shitpost of high enough quality and we'll turn it into a reason to annihilate the universe.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: CABL on November 20, 2018, 08:27:37 am

Quote from: Hanslanda on November 20, 2018, 08:02:33 am

Bay12: Give us a Shitpost of high enough quality and we'll turn it into a reason to annihilate the universe.

Damn, I'm so tempted to sig this. I guess I'll claim some space in Sigtext thread.

Also, don't forget to contact your local Eldritch Being(s), so that they can help with our mission to destroy the universe.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Rockeater on November 20, 2018, 09:05:10 am

Quote from: CABL on November 20, 2018, 08:27:37 am

Also, don't forget to contact your local Eldritch Being(s), so that they can help with our mission to destroy the universe.

And I'll sig this thank you very much.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Bumber on November 20, 2018, 01:54:40 pm

Quote from: CABL on November 20, 2018, 08:27:37 am

Also, don't forget to contact your local Eldritch Being(s), so that they can help with our mission to destroy the universe.

But don't let on that you intend to destroy them too.

Title: Re: Suggestions About What the Game Needs to Not Have
Post by: Jdorf on November 20, 2018, 05:48:02 pm

Quote from: CABL on November 20, 2018, 03:40:22 am

Quote from: Rockeater on November 20, 2018, 03:19:20 am

Ha, you n00b, still have a info of touch and temperature, I removed all of my name, I don't have info of anything!!!

The universe contains and is made of information, therefore, it needs to be removed.

But even making the assertion adds more information to the universe! Truly, the OP's shitposting has laid bare an infinite regress problem of devilish complexity.

Which just shows that it's a noob post for noobs, if I'm following the argument correctly.