Bay 12 Games Forum
Other Projects => Other Games => Play With Your Buddies => Topic started by: Sensei on June 13, 2011, 08:26:40 pm
-
Ah, the End User License Agreement. This is that bunch of words that come up when you install a game, and you scroll to the bottom and tick the box because you don't want to spend your entire evening reading legalese in an itty bitty window. They're also notorious for being machiavellian and possibly not legally enforceable, because they aren't usually in plain English/aren't present alongside a lawyer, and are presented after you pay for a product.
Sometimes, I read them. Not that I'm a lawyer, but there can be... interesting bits.
With the ado out of the way, today I'll be going through the World of Tanks (http://game.worldoftanks.com/terms_of_service) terms of service, and generally poking at the fun parts, as well as translating it into plain and simple english. If you're legally inclined I recommend you open that link, and refer to it often (or if you're curious about the parts I generalize). Lastly, let me note that if this is tl;dr to you, try skipping forward to the red bit, it's what I really made this for.
Now, I'll take it from the top:
WN TERMS OF SERVICE
These Terms of Service (“Agreement”) covers the public websites of Wargaming.Net LLP (WN/we/us/our)...
Okay, had to get that out of the way for those who are only reading the post. It says that the agreement is basically for all games hosted by WN, or Wargaming.Net- however, at this time that means only World of Tanks and WN's associated forums. The rest of this section is relatively uninteresting (introductions are), except for a couple clauses:
If you are under the age of thirteen (13), you must make sure that your parent or guardian reads and accepts this Agreement on your behalf prior to your use of the Website.
Hah.
Please note that WN may terminate this Agreement and your rights hereunder at any time. (emphasis original)
This is standard, but worth noting- they can close your access to the product for whatever reason they want.
WN may, from time to time, modify, amend, or supplement these Terms of Service, and post those changes on the Terms of Service page. Such modifications, amendments or supplements shall be effective immediately upon posting on the Website. You are responsible for periodically checking the Website for changes to these Terms of Service.
Yeah, that's right. This says that they can change the contract you already agreed to, and you have to keep checking up on it to see if they've changed it. It doesn't say when or if it was last modified at the top either, so you'd have to read through the whole thing and memorize it like a holy book if you wanted to know when they changed something. Usually EULAs say that they have to alert you when the terms of the EULA change.
The agreement then goes on to section I., the objective statement, which just says that these rules govern the game basically.
II. TERMS OF USE
The opening of this section tells you to read their forum rules, yadda yadda. It also explains their account system: CM's (Community Managers) are employees, Moderators are players selected by the CMs, and then there's regular players.
On Account Sharing:
Players must keep all account information confidential. At no time should a player give out their e-mail, account ID or password, secret question or answer to anyone. This includes friends, relatives, parents, children, spouses...
"NEVER LET YOUR SPOUSE USE YOUR ACCOUNT! THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED!" They only use this as justification so you can't say 'My <person I shared my account with> was a douche, not me, don't ban my account,' but I still find the insinuation that you account info should be guarded the same way as national military secrets a little crazy.
In Account Security:
(ii) immediately report to WN staff on any hacking tools if known that can potentially harm the Website or the Game for further investigation...
Heh, unless of course you're using them. ::) Also in this section is some warning that someone COULD potentially get your personal information if you transmit it via an internet connection. It doesn't actually give any policies, it just says that they try to be careful with your personal info. Odd.
Lastly this section explains what kinds of warnings, temporary and permanent bans are available. Not precisely what they're issue for, that comes later.
Now, onto charges and billing. We're still in Section II, man it's long.
You also acknowledge and agree that WN and its Third Party Providers do not ensure continuous or error-free access or availability of any game content, feature, game-play, service or server and may change, modify, disable, suspend or remove any such content, feature, game-play, service or server in their sole discretion.
This is under the charges and billing section, interestingly. Prevents you from trying to get your money back if you can't log in after paying for something- but also if they remove the feature. Yikes! Well, I guess I wouldn't want them to be legally unable to nerf paid content.
It then goes on to talk about payment methods (yawn) and ingame gold (a little bit banning RMT and account selling here). It also talks about how virtual goods are a limited license... maybe worth reading, but not quite worth harping on- you DID pay real money for a bunch of pretend ammunition, or whatever.
YOU AGREE, THEREFORE, THAT YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM OR SUIT AGAINST WN, ITS PARENT COMPANIES, DIVISIONS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, OR ANY EMPLOYEES OF ANY OF ABOVE, WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO; (I) A CLAIM THAT YOU "OWN" ANY VIRTUAL GOODS IN ANY GAME, (II) A CLAIM FOR THE "VALUE" OF VIRTUAL GOODS IF WN DELETES THEM (AND/OR TERMINATES YOUR ACCOUNT(S)
AHHH BIG TEXT! If you've got the whole EULA open, read that entire section. But gist of it is like it says: You don't "own" (quotes original) anything you paid for. When you hear people being suspicious of DLC, this is why.
It's been pretty boring so far- but hey, at least you didn't have to read grey text on a slightly darker grey background. I'll just leave this red bookmark here, if you want to take a break. Don't worry though, it gets better! Up next:
You understand that by using WN Communication Features, you may be exposed to messages, information, data, text, software, graphic files, or other materials, whether in written, verbal, electronic, digital, machine-readable or other form, whether now known or hereafter to become known ("User Content") that you might find objectionable.
Heh. Actually, the really funny part is where it says WN doesn't guarantee the accuracy of user content. As if somebody thought moderators were out to remove inaccurate forum posts and chat messages. :P
2. Prohibited Uses
You agree not to do any of the following while accessing or using the Website or any WN Communication Features:
Okay, this is what we're really here for. I've been reading the EULA from the top, but I saw some bits from this section a while ago that inspired me to start this thread. Hope they haven't changed it: Here is what WN prohibits you to communicate.
Transmit or facilitate the transmission of any User Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, that may be invasive of another's right of privacy or publicity, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
Nothing objectionable! As if they enforce that. Also, I picture some lawyer breaking out the big thesaurus to write this passage. "Tortious"? Really?
Impersonate any person or entity,
You get banned if you say "DEVELOPERS!" too many times.
Transmit or facilitate the transmission of any User Content that you do not have a right to transmit, under any law...
You're... not allowed to break the law? That's redundant.
Use a WN’s Communication Feature in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other users (e.g., excessive shouting (use of all caps),
Hah! Now it's down in black and white, you annoying, spammy idiots who insist on- wait, it's grey on grey, doesn't count.
Slander and deception of WN Staff. WN Staff is to be as impartial and unbiased as possible.
Haha, oh wow.
There's a lot of good stuff in the full version of the list too. But, if I recall correctly, it used to have a fairly long section regarding how you were not legally allowed to post anything found "offensive"- I guess they took it out. Also in the communication section is stuff saying you can't violate copyrights, some rules for link posting and an epilepsy warning (if they cared about the epilepsy warning it would be somewhere people might actually have a change of noticing it).
After that, there's a big ugly section about beta testing. Not sure why it's still in there, but nothing interesting.
III. Intellectual Property
Then comes copyright, including use of WN copyrighted material in fan sites. I'm not sure why that has to included as such. Aside from the section on a license agreement if a fansite intends to charge subscriptions somehow, I'm pretty sure that WN just has to suck your big long fair use.
D. Submissions, Fan Fiction, Artwork, Content, and Photographs
Anyway, fan fiction...? I guess it's some kind of standard ass-covering, but I don't see how anyone would write fan fiction about world of tanks, a game in which takes place only in instantiated death matches. But let's read it!
It says, first off, that they do not accept any fan design or art suggestions as part of a company policy to prevent legal misunderstandings, and will not use them under any circumstances. Oddly, it says that if you DO send something to them (at their request or in spite of their standing request) then:
Accordingly, WN shall exclusively own all now known or hereafter existing copyrights and all other intellectual property rights to all Submissions of every kind and nature, in perpetuity, throughout the universe and you hereby assign to WN as a present assignment of future rights all such intellectual property rights to the extent owned by you.
Aside from the kind of alarming implications of the ridiculous totality with which this agreement supposedly gives them copyright power, I find the wording "of every kind and nature, in perpetuity, throughout the universe" curiously entertaining. I think somebody was having fun when they wrote this.
There's also a bit on their policies for downloading the actual game files for World of Tanks. It's typically totalitarian but not interesting in any particular way.
IV. Disclaimers
Everybody loves disclaimers! This bit is pretty typical, it says you get no warranty and it's not their fault if your computer explodes. They also say that third-party content is not reviewed in whole or in part by WN (which I'm pretty sure is what we call in legalese a "lie") and that WN is not responsible for ANY content on their website which my be inaccurate or offensive, which I'm pretty sure sort of like saying "WN and all associates and subsidiaries hold that the sky is purple, with yellow polka-dots."
Well, with that out of the way, we've basically come to the bottom of the page. What a labor! There's a section on amendments to the agreement, which restates that they can change the agreement whenever they want, but in a really polite way to trick people who didn't read the whole thing. It says:If we make a material change to the Policy, we will notify you by posting the change on the Policy
Which is far friendlier than "WE CAN CHANGE THIS POLICY AT ANY TIME SO KEEP READING IT SCROOGE MCGEE!" If you think about it though, it's actually the same thing.
After that it just says to report violations, and has an email address to contact the legal staff.
We're done!
Congratulations if you read the whole post. If you haven't read an EULA before, this should give you a pretty good idea what's in most of them. In fact, we should be able to skim through any other EULAs more lightly, and only pick out the really fun stuff.
Comments? And assuming your brains aren't pudding, what EULA should we read next?
-
Brain is pudding, thanks for doing that though Sensei, brain likely to be less of a puddingminster tommorow. XD
-
Hehe. Can you get your hands on the WoW EULA without paying/downloads? If not, do Bay12's. I want to see what BS SMF has put in there.
-
I want a T-shirt with the "throughout the universe" quote on it.
-
This was actually quite interesting. Cant suggest any other EULAs cause I dont read them.
And the universe thing is cool.
-
I always thought that people writing EULAs are retired comedians. Or taking a break. Or something.
One moment...
YOU AGREE, THEREFORE, THAT YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM OR SUIT AGAINST WN, ITS PARENT COMPANIES, DIVISIONS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, OR ANY EMPLOYEES OF ANY OF ABOVE, WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO; (I) A CLAIM THAT YOU "OWN" ANY VIRTUAL GOODS IN ANY GAME, (II) A CLAIM FOR THE "VALUE" OF VIRTUAL GOODS IF WN DELETES THEM (AND/OR TERMINATES YOUR ACCOUNT(S)
What?
... YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM ... AGAINST WN ... OR ANY EMPLOYEES ... WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO <...>
Do I read it right? Do they ask you to agree to never bring any legal case against ANY of their employees which is based on something "BUT NOT LIMITED TO" it?
So if WN janitor kills your wife and children and they include this into the "not limited to" field, you have no right to sue him?
Lulz.
-
Remind me to get a job at WN. >.>
-
Gotta love EULAs. I'm pretty sure some of the stuff you sign away by clicking agree can't actually be signed away. I guess it's good of them to try and protect themselves from their often idiotic userbase, but... yeah.
-
Do the PS3 one. There's some incredibly fucked up shit there if their quoting it during the SCEA vs Geohot case is accurate.
-
Seconding the B12 forums one. This should be good.
-
Grr! The forum ate my post twice, if you're wondering why it seems late.
As many of you have noted, a lot of EULAs ask you to sign away things that aren't legal in most countries. Generally this is just a company covering their bases, but it really sucks to be you if you have a serious issue with it, because you can't really play their game otherwise. If a company does try to launch a crazy lawsuit, most gamers have no good reason to spend the money and time needed to do something about it over a video game. Unfortunately there's no regulation or oversight on these things from parties other than the companies which write them.
So, our suggestions for the next EULA are:
-PS3 (is there really an EULA for the console itself?)
-WoW (http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html)
-Bay 12 "EULA". I'm not sure what you mean by this, I don't think there's an EULA for Dwarf Fortress, so do you mean the forum guidelines (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=27009) written by Toady? Or the default text (found below Toady's rules) shown when you register on the forum? While it is something you usually skip past, forum guidelines don't tend to be as long, wordy or alarming as EULAs. I should not that WoT had forum/gameplay guidelines (http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/forum-29/announcement-26-world-of-tanks-game-rules/) too, separate from their EULA (of note, it's longer than your typical rules and DOES have a few things to poke at, but not a ton).
Anyway, I'll be trying to look for links to the WoW and PS3 agreements. If anyone knows where those are, links are appreciated (as would, if possible, links to future suggestions).
Edit: Found the WoW one, added link. Like with the WN one, the text there is annoyingly close to the background color. Edit2: found Playstation network (http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html) agreement, is that what you're looking for? More awful website design that makes the EULA difficult to read, I might add. I think I see a pattern, like rainbows on all the bad nintendo cartridges... Edit3: Oh troll jegus. (http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/us/index.html) Apparently there's three separate agreements associated with the PS3, plus health and safety. Edit4: Wait, I think that's NOT counting the PSN one.
-
Went back and checked, and turns out there was just a basic agreement for when you sign up for Bay12, not a labyrinthine EULA. >.>
Also, yet another suggestion (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstore/dev/stdeula/). And I have to say, I just skimmed it, and it seemed surprisingly benign.
-
PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE AGREEMENT
Maybe that would be a clever thread title...
Today I'll go over the contents of the Playstation 3 Terms of Service (http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html) V1.4, one of several hideous pieces of legal text which, according to Sony's lawyers, you're expected to spend about twelve hours reading before using your Playstation 3. I've copied the EULA into a Word document this time, and it's far easier to read, so if you're reading along I suggest you do the same. It's 16 pages long, compared to 17 on the WoT one.
Note that these terms of use are not the license agreement for the console hardware itself, which is mostly full of clauses prohibiting you from modifying your console or using it to murder people prone to photo-epileptic seizures.
There really is a ton to be said for how unfair EULA type agreements are at forcing customers into a contract they don't understand for a product they already bought. As usual, though, I'll focus on the content in particular that you supposedly read if you were granted access to the Playstation Network.
First let's get the drudgery out of the way:
THIS AGREEMENT IS A CONTRACT BETWEEN YOU AND SONY NETWORK ENTERTAINMENT AMERICA INC. ("SNEA")
So, for the purposes of this contract, Sony is now "SNEA". Man, that's a hideous name. Get used to seeing it a lot, though. You win an internet if you make a Sony fan angry by insisting on referring on Sony by it's full acronym. Oh, we'll also be using PSN for Playstation Network a lot.
[the agreement]...CAN BE ACCEPTED ONLY BY AN ADULT OF LEGAL AGE OF MAJORITY IN THE COUNTRY IN WHICH YOUR SONY ONLINE SERVICES (PSN OR QRIOCITY) ACCOUNT IS REGISTERED.
Well, you don't usually see something this out of whack this early in. While most EULA's say you have to be 13 years of age, a standard set by PEGI (European ESRB) or something I think, this one requires you be legally an adult. If you're under 18 and you saved up the money to buy a PS3, supposedly you can't legally agree to this EULA and gain access to PSN. Mind, this contract-terminating issue is only ever going to come up if they try to terminate your contract, but still.
There's some more about how agree to the agreement if you click agree, you agree to follow the community code of conduct (also part of the agreement), not use unlicensed peripherals (bah, humbug!) and, vaguely, and not use the PSN in a way that is harmful to Sony SNEA.
Also this EULA is organized into reasonably-sized sections. Yay!
1. ACCOUNT REGISTRATION
This bit explains, in rather dull terms, what an account is, that Qriocity is an on-demand video service, and some other things. Also that you get one master account and six sub-accounts.
You are not permitted to create Sub Accounts for adults or persons under the legal age of majority who are not your children or for whom you are not the legal guardian. Your children must be of a certain age in order to have a Sub Account. Sub Accounts may not be available in all countries.
Pretty much all of these limiting clauses on sub-accounts are weird. First off, remember apparently you have to be 18 to create a master account. It then says that you can create sub-accounts for ONLY YOUR CHILDREN, not your sibling or spouse or roommate. I'm sure nobody follows that. It says children must be "of a certain age", but this is never specified. I think it's in case some country decides kids under 12 can't have internet accounts, or something, but that's still really weird. And "sub accounts may not be available in all countries"? I dread to see how that's applied. Do you think they just go, "Hey, those frenchies are rich, they can afford to make more master accounts." or something? I can hardly wrap my head around why they would add that.
you must provide (i) your consent for SNEA to disclose, pursuant to SNEA's Privacy Policy, your child's personally identifying information to third parties for the purpose of allowing your child to participate in Sony Online Services activities, such as video, voice chat and gameplay in PSN; and (ii) your credit card information if requested by SNEA for Sub Accounts for children under the age of 13 in the United States and Canada or under the specific age applicable to your country. Your credit card will be used to verify parental consent under laws requiring such consent. You will not be charged a fee for creating the Sub Account.
If you do not consent to the disclosure of this requested information, you will not be able to create a Sub Account.
Okay, this I can see actually bugging some people. You basically have to sign a release form for anything you do on the PSN. It kinda makes sense, but that's still pretty creepy. Does it seriously use your credit to check if you have children? How? Is that legal? Remember, even if they're eight years old, tell Sony they're 14 and bypass that crap.
After that it says that it's parents' responsibility to monitor what their kids do online and what games they play, so bully (that's European for good) on Sony SNEA for telling parents to be responsible.
2. COMMUNITY CODE OF CONDUCT
or "We make fun of people who try to force their values on other people!"
This is just a huge bullet-pointed list of you-may-nots, and a paragraph afterwards saying the typical stuff about how SNEA can remove content or report you to the cops if you use PSN to organize your drug dealing. Oh, and their ever-beloved right to ban you and your expensive hardware they gave you.
Onto the list!
• You may not engage in deceptive or misleading practices.
This is the very first one. It should say "unless you are rich and sell video games".
• You may not take any action, or upload, post, stream, or otherwise transmit any content... that SNEA or its affiliates, in their sole discretion, find offensive, hateful, or vulgar.
This thread would get deleted on the Sony forums.
• You may not upload, post, stream, or otherwise transmit any content that contains any viruses...[or other hacks]
This is squarely in their right to say, but I always wonder why EULAs keep needing to include this. It's in every online service EULA I've read. I mean, it sure didn't stop anybody. Speaking of which...
• You may not provide anyone with your name or any other personally identifying information other than your Online ID, nor the name, password or personally identifying information of any other person or business through any means, including messaging, chat or any other form of network communication.
At first it looks like they didn't say you couldn't tell random strangers your credit card number because it was obvious. But the real truth was more sinister. Jokes aside, since when was Sony's position to say that I can't tell people my name on the internet? Remember, these clauses apply to grown adults. I guess we can add it to the list of bannable things everyone does that SNEA can use to pin anyone they want to ban.
The rest is typical stuff, including saying that you aren't allowed to impersonate anyone or knowingly break laws in your country/state through use of their service. Oh, and it says basically not to copy their floppies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI).
3. ACCESS TO CONTENT
This section is quite brief. It mostly just says that you have to agree to any third-party usage terms and consent that your information can be used by third parties. Bo-ring. This is why people don't normally read EULAs.
All content and services are provided to you by SNEA, including content created or published by third parties.
You know actually, that sentence seems a little suspect. At the very least their definition of "provided" isn't a universally broad one...
4. WALLET
Also a very short segment. There's some specific details about how wallets behave in relation to sub-accounts (the master account gives them a monthly spending limit), but it's not too alarming. Except, of course, that it says "NO REFUNDS ON ANYTHING".
SNEA has no obligation to reverse or refund unauthorized charges made on your credit or debit card... funds added to the wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable... wallet funds that are deemed abandoned or unused by law will not be returned or restored.
Note that by "unauthorized", they presumably mean sub-account spending, which is supposed to be your kids. However I'm sure that if your credit card information were stolen, SNEA's lawyers could interpret that more broadly...
Section five covers prepaid cards and product codes, not much interesting there.
6. PURCHASES AND TRANSACTIONS
This one's another hideous wall of text.
By completing a transaction through your Master Account or allowing a transaction to take place through an associated Sub Account, you are (i) agreeing to pay for all purchases made by the Master Account and its associated Sub Accounts, including recurring charges for subscriptions that are not cancelled; (ii) authorizing SNEA to deduct from the wallet and charge your credit card all applicable fees due and payable for all purchases made by the Master Account and its associated Sub Accounts;
This is basically more "NO REFUNDS". However, it also specifically mentions subscription fees. There's another section on subscriptions further down with the gory details, but this sounds like they really don't care if somebody forgets to cancel a subscription. Not that I suspect SNEA does this, but other companies have in the past- the text of the agreement basically means that if they make it difficult or extremely inconvenient to unsubscribe, there isn't much you can do about it.
SNEA reserves the right to deduct from the wallet any fee, penalty or other charge resulting from a Master Account holder's request to the Master Account holder's credit card company to reverse charges for a purchase.
Not horrendously unfair, but a little worrying. Also, since it says earlier that everyone "non refundable to the extent permitted by law", this is only AFTER they've been forced to refund you.
To the extent permitted by applicable law, all sales are subject to the laws of the State of California, County of San Mateo.
Now, that's worrying. You never know what they have up their sleeve with something radical yet poorly explained by this. Are they based in San Mateo? Are the laws there just favorable to their interests? *goes to look it up* Well, I dunno. They have a population of 100,000 (not huge) and as far as I can tell Sony doesn't have any particular investment there- in fact, possibly not even an office. This is a list of the top ten employers in San Mateo:
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7489/laborh.jpg)
Still have no idea why they chose it though. Back on topic:
You bear all risk of loss for accessing your content, including completing the download of any content, ensuring that you have the necessary capabilities to view your content, including content provided at high resolution/definition, and for any loss of content you have downloaded, including any loss due to a file corruption or hard drive crash.
Geez, that's harsh. I think it's mostly supposed to apply to temporary content, but I wonder if you're able to re-download things like games.
After that there's an ominous bit about how a "Minimum Fee" will be deducted from your credit card if you try to buy more than you can afford in your Sony-Wallet- and that the Minimum Fee might be more than the purchase price. It says the details are in section 11 so stay tuned folks!
7. GENERAL LICENSE RESTRICTIONS AND TERMS
Except as stated in this Agreement, all content and software provided through Sony Online Services are licensed non-exclusively and revocably to you...
Yup. Standard but still appalling: Everything you pay for is not owned, but a license which may be revoked if SNEA sees fit. This is the big purpose, and issue, with EULAs. Remember buying Nintendo cartridges? And owning them? Sony doesn't.
It also goes on about how extraordinarily non-transferable and limited things are. Nothing shocking, just that you can't re-sell it and you can only activate it on a certain number of devices and yadda yadda. Although it's too long to really put in a quote here, you might want to count how many times they use the words "limited", "expressly permitted", and "You may not". You know, just for fun.
Also oddly enough, copyrights ("You may not reproduce trademarks...") are tacked onto the end of this section.
8. VIDEO CONTENT
These are all the rules regarding video content. There's later sections on comics and music like it. It basically outlines what a rental is in the most anally retentive terms possible. The only particularly interesting thing is:
Some content such as movie trailers may not be representative of the actual feature presentation.
So true, Sony SNEA. So true.
9. COMIC CONTENT
This is probably the shortest section in the EULA. All it says is that if you download a comic you can activate it on up to 3 machines, and that rights to the comic are reserved by SNEA and the comic publisher. But it really is alarmingly short.
Subject to the terms of this Agreement and any additional terms and conditions for the particular content, SNEA licenses to PSN account holders digital comic book content ("Comic Content") via purchase or download on PSN for your personal, private, non-commercial viewing in the United States on up to three (3) activated PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system(s). Additional software for viewing Comic Content may be required. Except for rights explicitly granted here, all rights in Comic Content are reserved by SNEA and its licensors. Some Comic Content may not be identical with the original formatted content or versions of the same titled content not provided by SNEA.
That's the entire thing. Oh, and it says that some comics might be slightly different on the PS3 than other versions. I'm pretty sure that's mostly for resizing, at the very least I haven't heard complaints of Sony SNEA cutting out the good parts.
10. MUSIC CONTENT
This is much like the video content section. Strict, as usual, but there isn't anything interesting or surprising here.
11. SUBSCRIPTIONS
I've been waiting for this one!
Subscriptions renew automatically unless you cancel the subscription. The cost of each subscription will automatically be deducted from your wallet at the beginning of each subscription term without further notice to you.
Emphasis original- at least they're clear about it. Well, as clear as anything on page 12 of 16 in an 8635 word EULA you weren't planning on reading when you bought a game console can be.
SNEA may also offer a free trial period with some subscriptions. If you do not cancel your subscription before expiration of a trial period, your wallet will automatically be charged the cost of the subscription at the beginning of each subscription term without further notice to you.
See, this sort of sneaky crap is stuff that their business model relies on you not reading. A lot of MMOs do this too.
[In the event that you don't have money to pay an ongoing subscription and] If the automatic funding feature on the Master Account is set to "ON," your credit card will be charged automatically the greater of the subscription cost or the Minimum Fee.
There's that Minimum Fee again, I'm still waiting to find out what it is. Maybe it varies by region and card.
After this it details some other things about canceling subscriptions, which are standard fare (you cancel, and then at the next payment term they close the service to you instead of charging you). Surprising lack of meat in this section.
12. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES
This is a brief section, stating that you might be required to have software upgrades to your console, and SNEA is not liable if it screws your console up.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcxJ0Tf5462WcDpJvIrjQKj1hyLvIIj5TCr_n1R6njdX7cmGsbbA)
It is recommended that you regularly back up any archivable data located on the hard disk.
I just find this interesting because "archivable" is apparently not a word, according to MS Word, Firefox and Dictionary.com. Normally I'd say that it bloody well ought to be, but in a document as anal as this can't help but point and laugh.
13. USER MATERIAL AND INFORMATION
This is a relatively long section, but mostly all it says is that if you put information on PSN publicly or submit it to third parties then it isn't SNEA's problem what happens to it, which is pretty much the nature of the internet. Not that they pass up the opportunity to affirm their right to remove user material.
Also, it says that SNEA has rights to use anything you, as a user, submit.
You hereby waive all claims, including any moral rights, against SNEA, its affiliates and subsidiaries for SNEA or any third party's use of User Material to the extent permitted by applicable law.
Not as extreme as the 'in perpetuity' one from the other EULA, but still. Geez.
Also in this section: You shouldn't post things you don't have the rights to (NO POSTING SONG LYRICS GUYS).
It says that third parties might harvest statistics about your use of games (such as gameplay time). And then there's this funny quote:
If you do not want your information to be used, recorded or distributed, please do not play the game online through PSN.
...which you just paid for.
14. TERMINATION / CANCELLATION
Well, there isn't anything surprising here- it explains reasons your account might be suspended. It also says you won't get refunds on things if your account is suspended, but we knew that already. The only odd detail is that it says in some scenarios a master account might be suspended, but sub accounts remain usable and even able to purchase things.
Although it states why and how you might be suspended, all that it really comes down to legally is the umbrella clause:
Unless as otherwise stated in this Agreement, SNEA, at its sole discretion, may indefinitely suspend, or discontinue any and all online access to content at any time, including for maintenance service or upgrades, without prior notice or liability.
15. GENERAL LEGAL
I figured this would be boring, but there's actually a few details worth pointing out here.
SNEA, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including imposing a fee for creating PSN accounts.
There's the usual mentioning that they can change the agreement. Not that they actually have some obligation to continue providing free accounts, but this implication that they might not is a little scary. Also, at this time I'm going to have to ask you to picture Darth Vader saying "I've changed the agreement. Pray that I do not change it any further."
If material changes to this Agreement are made, you will be notified by e-mail or other communication when you sign in to Sony Online Services.
Hey, that's a lot better than WN's terms of service. Here they promise to send you an email or notification (even if it just says "the EULA has changed" and shows the entire block of text, that's better than not even telling people). I can't say if they actually highlight the changes they make in these notifications, but I'll give them the benefit of a doubt.
Your continued use of Sony Online Services, including use of your associated Sub Account(s), will signify your acceptance of these changes.
For how much they talk about you not getting anything from them unless it's "EXPRESSLY PERMITTED", they sure don't ask you to permit them expressly.
It also says if any part of the contract is found unenforceable, the rest of the contract remains. Most EULAs have this clause, but I have to say: if a court rules that an entire EULA is unenforceable because part of it is unenforceable, is the clause in the EULA saying they can't do that really going to change their minds?
And it says, in the case of a legal dispute:
Except as otherwise required by applicable law, both parties submit to personal jurisdiction in California and further agree that any dispute arising from or relating to this Agreement shall be brought in a court within San Mateo County, California.
San Mateo again. I still don't know why they chose that place as the precedent for all their legal dealings. It's kind of like if someone threatened to torture you with a pen, a rubber duck, a graphing calculator and a clothespin. The not-knowing is scary.
16. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
No warranty is given about the quality, functionality, availability or performance of Sony Online Services, or any content or service offered on or through Sony Online Services.
This is a long section, but let's be honest, that's basically all you need to know.
We're done!
That was a headache. I think this was even longer than the other one. So, two questions: How much do you hate Sony SNEA and what should we do next?
-
Oh god, that was actually pretty scary. Is there an X-Box 360 equivalent you can look into?
-
San Mateo is the place with the ridiculous law that says "You are sued by a company. Time is Money. You are causing economic damage. GUILTY and vice versa (company can never be sued)" I think. I know it's somewhere in CA and this seems likely.
Also, what is the difference between Sony, SCEA and SNEA? There was some confusion during the Geohot trial where they were suddenly revealed to be completely independent companies in terms of law while still SCEA was suing for breach of contract over a SNEA EULA, and Geohot himself was under the impression they were all part of Sony itself. Then again,that whole trial was a complete farce and cavalcade of privacy breaches and plain lies.
-
Apparently, SCEA stands for Sony Computer Entertainment of America, whereas SNEA is Sony Network Entertainment of America. On wikipedia, there is only a page for SCEA (Which actually redirects to SNEI, the inernational entity), which has absolutely no mention of SNEA. A google search for SNEA shows that control of the PSN was switched from SCEA to SNEA on April 1, 2011.
The switch of online services from Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) to SNEA has been expected for some time now as SNEA already manages the online operations of other Sony products such as Bravia, Blu-ray Players and Dash.
In fact, the only thing I can find about SNEA, anywhere, is that they took control of the PSN on April 1, and this involved some changes in the EULA.
...if a user declines the new terms, the account will be closed and the money stored in it will be refunded. ...Established last year, Sony Network Entertainment already handles the online operations for Sony's Bravia, Dash, and Blu-ray players. Gamers may know it primarily for the Qriocity video and music streaming services, which use the same log-in information and virtual wallets as the PlayStation Network.
So, as far as I can tell, SNEA is just a subsidiary of Sony (and I mean SCEA), directly controlled by Sony. To be honest, I don't understand in legal terms to what degree they are a separate company.
I also tried digging on San Mateo a little harder. Earlier I searched San Mateo Tax (and found only that they had a 9.25% sales tax) and San Mateo Law (and found only lawyers in San Mateo). I was going to look up "San Mateo Lawsuit" when I saw that "San Mateo Superior Court" was a popular search. There's a few sites, and I either can't really find what I'm looking for on them or am not sure if they're legitimate. With a few other searches I can't seem to find any particular law regarding to what I'm looking for, but I DID find "Sony Computer Entertainment of America" on google maps. the building (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=13&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1584&bih=768&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=san+mateo+sony&fb=1&gl=us&hq=sony&hnear=0x808f9e60efa95545:0xfd8efcf42dcc1ba7,San+Mateo,+CA&cid=0,0,3045635490624708249&ei=T-L8Td74IYyCsQPKssjeBQ&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QnwIwAA) actually looks pretty big, relatively speaking anyway, but remember we know they have less than 275 employees in that county, so I'm not sure whether it's safe to say they're "based" there.
-
I could send the WoW one if you want
-
I already found and linked it.
-
I just love the fact that almost every EULA gives total rights to the providing company to completely fuck over your account, rob you and then ban you from the game because a block of text you agreed to says so. They've got you in a death grip chokehold when it comes to anything involving your account.
Oh well, thus is the life of the end user.
-
I always loved the iTunes EULA myself
http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstore/dev/stdeula/ (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstore/dev/stdeula/)
'You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons.,
You'll find that at the bottom of section 'g' for anyone interested
-
Linked it already, Iced.
-
Bonus round! Health and safety warnings:
-PS3 (http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_health_en.html):
Most of this is pertaining to epileptic seizures. There's also a section on the sixaxis controller and 3D screens.
Regarding the sixaxis motion controller:
If the controller hits a person or object, this may cause accidental, injury or damage.
It's a good thing I read the safety warnings so I know that.
When using the controller, grip it firmly to make sure it cannot slip out of your hand.
Caution: Do not throw controller at screen in frustration.
Some people may experience discomfort (such as eye strain, eye fatigue or nausea) while watching 3D video images or playing stereoscopic 3D games on 3D televisions. If you experience such discomfort, you should immediately discontinue use of your television until the discomfort subsides.
I get discomfort because they suck, I should stop watching them.
The vision of young children (especially those under six years old) is still under development. SCEA recommends that you consult your doctor (such as a pediatrician or eye doctor) before allowing young children to watch 3D video images or play stereoscopic 3D games.
Holy shit nintendo 3DS! Wonder if the 3DS safety warnings say anything about that...
-Kinect (http://support.xbox.com/en-us/pages/kinect/more-topics/health-and-safety-guidelines.aspx):
I couldn't find a page on health and safety for the xbox, I guess they only have an epilepsy warning. Kinect safety has some funny ones though.
If you allow children to use the sensor without supervision, be sure to explain all relevant safety and health information and instructions. ... Make sure children using the Kinect sensor play safely and within their limits, and make sure they understand proper use of the system.
Microsoft to parents: Tell your children not to smash furniture, run and jump "within limits".
I might note that I'm skipping over a lot of Microsoft telling you really obvious things (like "look in all directions for obstacles") for the sake of brevity.
Make sure you have appropriate footwear for gaming (no high heels, flip flops, etc.) or are barefoot, if appropriate.
Yeah, if you don't know to take off your high heels, there probably isn't much help for you.
It also says some stuff on how not to electrocute yourself, and not to exercise if you shouldn't exercise.
If you experience excessive fatigue, nausea, shortness of breath, chest tightness, dizziness, discomfort, or pain, STOP USING IMMEDIATELY and consult a doctor.
"...and that means you, Gabe Newell! Serves you for putting Steam on the PS3!"
-Wii (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/wiisafety.jsp):
Blah blah blah, epilepsy, eye strain, poopsocking, electric shock... radio frequency interference?
If you have a pacemaker or other implanted medical device, do not use the Wii console or remote without first consulting your doctor...
Holy crap! Watch out, Wii Bowling night at the elderly home...
The Wii console is a Class I laser product. Do not attempt to disassemble the Wii console.
Pew pew, lasers!
Hold the Wii Remote firmly and do not let go. ...For example, in Wii Sports bowling, the proper way to let go of the ball while bowling is to release the "B" button on the Wii Remote—DO NOT LET GO OF THE Wii REMOTE ITSELF.
This should be obvious, shouldn't it? But evidently Nintendo was having problems with people throwing their controller like a bowling ball and not expecting it to have similar consequences to throwing a bowling ball at your TV.
If you are having so much fun that you start perspiring, take a moment to dry your hands.
so much fun that you start perspiring
ಠ_ಠ
-
Actually the 3ds has eye safety warnings printed all over the box
-
If you are having so much fun that you start perspiring, take a moment to dry your hands.
so much fun that you start perspiring
This is the best safety warning. The best.
-
Yah, 3DS has warnings on many of their commercials even not to let kids play with 3D mode on.
The iTunes one has become a straight up meme with celebrity dramatic readings
-
Oh whoa, this thread is amazing.
I think I'm going to have to actively watch this one.
Also, if you're trying to find more to look at... While it's probably largely the same as the Sony one, you could take a look at Steam's licences. I'm pretty sure it contains a few things along the lines "We reserve the right to permanently drop the service and never let you access the products you've paid for again."
Though, it's been a while since I read it so it's a bit vague on just how good it is for this sorta thing.
-
If you are having so much fun that you start perspiring, take a moment to dry your hands.
so much fun that you start perspiring
This is the best safety warning. The best.
I agree. This hilarity is intriguing.
In addition, that part about "discomfort from seeing 3d images"? That actually happens to people. My mom literally cannot watch a 3 Dimensional video game (or play one) (oddly this does not apply to other things like movies) without feeling sick.
I am not posting to watch, since I will be watching this thread like a hawk.
-
http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-20068778-10348864.html Richard Dreyfuss performs excerpts from the iTunes EULA. Fun stuff!
One of my favorite bits:
THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.
-
If you are having so much fun that you start perspiring, take a moment to dry your hands.
so much fun that you start perspiring
This is the best safety warning. The best.
To be fair, if your hands are sweaty, it's easier for the controller to slip out of your hands and hit that guy with a pacemaker having a heart attack from 20 straight rounds of Wii Flailing Randomly Boxing.
-
This is a great thread. I remember being repulsed by the far more tame Himachi network agreement; I probably would have declared any of these EULAs scams if I had started reading in a situation where I was actually considering using them. Although they aren't technically scams, they certainly skim the boarder here and there.
-
Now I'm going to have to read EULAs.
-
It looks like the current pending requests are:
-WoW
-Xbox 360
-iTunes
I don't think I'll be using the iTunes one, because it seems like a lot of people have gone over it already. So I guess it's a coin flip between the other two. *flips* Xbox it is!
Today we're reviewing the Xbox Live and Games for Windows Terms of Use (http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou). As usual, the website is ugly and hard to read so you should paste it into a word program if you're following along. It looks pretty similar to other EULA's we've done so far, but hopefully there will be enough unique elements to keep it interesting.
As usual, you are advised to take a break somewhere in the course of reading this. It's godawful long.
1. This Is a Contract between You and Microsoft.
This is a contract between you and Microsoft Corporation... or, based on where you live, one of the Microsoft Corporation affiliates. We will refer to ourselves in this contract as "Microsoft", "we", "us", or “our”.
Pretty straightforward, this. Worth noting since they're actually using Microsoft in their contract instead of some other silly name. Oh, heads up, I may use "XBL" for Xbox Live later.
This contract covers your use of the Xbox LIVE and Games for Windows LIVE interactive services... To avoid any confusion, when you register to use the Xbox LIVE service, you are registering for both the Xbox LIVE service and the Games for Windows LIVE service.
Nice and simple. I should note that so far this is a pretty readable document. It also says that this governs things downloaded from Xbox Live or the windows marketplace.
The Service is offered to you conditioned on your acceptance of all terms in this contract. By selecting "ACCEPT" below, you are representing that you are 18 years old... [and that your registration information is correct]
This again. I find it humorous. Just remember, they CAN revoke your account if you claim to be born on January 1st, 0 in Nazareth.
In addition, if you were a party to a prior version of this contract, that version may have stated that the contract can only be updated on 30 days’ notice. By selecting “ACCEPT” below, you are also agreeing to waive the applicability of this notice requirement.
Oh my! Here I thought I was on a good streak. It looks like previously, there was a clause in the EULA that said the EULA could not be modified without a month's notice. Then they made a change to the EULA that revoked that. Looks like this is yet another EULA that can be changed at any time.
Oh, and as usual, there's a clause saying that if you don't agree to the contract you don't get any XBL service.
2. Additional Terms.
Certain games, content offerings, features, or events (for example, sweepstakes and tournaments) that are available via the Service may contain additional terms, codes of conduct, or guidelines
Yeah, this just governs third party stuff. I think it would be clearer if I paraphrased than quoted:
-Some things may cause you to enter additional contracts with third parties
-These contracts may not affect Microsoft's contract with you
-Microsoft is not responsible for any number of problems, fiascoes or shenanigans third parties may cause
-Microsoft's agreement comes first:
Your use of any part of the Service as accessed through a third party web site or social network, however, is still governed by this contract – even if the terms or agreements applicable to such a third party web site state otherwise.
3. When You May Use the Service.
This is just a brief paragraph.
You may start using the Service as soon as you have finished the sign-up process... except if the law requires a "cooling off" period despite your waiver and even when a Service starts right away.
Which is a weird thing to say, because I don't know of any law that prevents you from accessing an online service immediately, anywhere. Just an odd provision, I guess, or maybe it applies only to Estonia or something.
4. Using the Service.
This is the section regarding your code of conduct.
First off, it says you shouldn't break any laws (yawn) or break the XBL Code of Conduct (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/codeofconduct). While the code of conduct is kind of an aside and some of it is redundant to the EULA, I'd like to take a brief look at it. Let's see... it encourages you to mute players instead of argue, don't be obnoxious, don't cheat, don't sell accounts, there's a list of how account suspension works...
D. Expression of Relationship Orientation
You may use the following terms to express your relationship orientation or gender identity in your profile or Gamertag:
* Lesbian
* Gay
* Bi
* Transgender
* Straight
Other terms regarding relationship orientation are not allowed. In addition you may not use these terms or any other terms regarding relationship orientation to insult, harass, or any other pejorative use against other users.
Hmmmmmm. Well, I don't envy whoever was on the committee to write up this policy. Also, what other "terms regarding relationship orientation" are not allowed, exactly? Beastial? You know what, actually, I just don't want to know. :(
Any-hoo, back to our regular programming. Next up:
YOU MUST NOT: [bullet-pointed list]
Time to pick on some bullet points! ...actually meh, this bit is pretty standard. Stuff about not hacking the service or viruses or cheating or advertising/selling things over XBL.
It's also got the bullet-pointed list from the Code of Conduct. Notably, it says you must not use XBL to:
Publish, distribute, or disseminate any content, topic, name, material, file, or information that incites, advocates, promotes, depicts, constitutes, or expresses ... profanity, hatred, bigotry, racism, illegal drug use, gratuitous or graphic violence, or criminal or fraudulent activity; [emphasis mine]
(http://www.cheatcodesgalore.com/boxart/xbox/Grand_Theft_Auto_San_Andreas.jpg)
Good thing there isn't profanity or violence in things Microsoft publishes or markets on the Xbox or Xbox Live...
Create a Gamertag, avatar or use text in other profile fields that may offend other members.
This sort of thing always worries me. The whole bullet point mentions that this includes various offensive things, but I still wonder where they draw the line on people who are offended just being crazy as opposed to screen names being too offensive.
Download or use any material sent or provided by another user of the Service that you know, or reasonably should know, cannot be legally shared or distributed in such manner (except as expressly permitted by us);
This is meant to prevent piracy. However, it looks to me like the wording implies that it's okay to download something that isn't legal as long as Microsoft expressly permits it. :P Not that they could actually do that, but hey, I get my laughs.
5. Your Service account, associated accounts and accounts from third parties. Is this a good time to mention there's 19 sections?
Only you may use your Service account. ...You’re responsible for all activity that takes place with your Service account and any associated accounts.
The details and exceptions of that make up this section.
Chiefly, this regards:
If you allow or enable a minor to use your Service account or an associated account, then:
A list! And it's for the children!
You represent that you are the parent or legal guardian of each such minor;
Again, this weird policy of not letting other people's children use your account. What's up with that? Do they think kids don't have friends over and then proceed to share the XBL account?
You acknowledge that you are aware that some features of the Service, and some content available through the Service may contain or expose users to material that is unsuitable for minors...
What they don't tell you is that the worst profanity comes from squeaky twelve-year-olds.
Other than that it mostly just says to use your parental settings.
6. If You Pay Microsoft.
The first bit of this section notes that it doesn't apply to payments made to third parties.
Boring details: When you give them your payment information you agree to let them take money from you before, shortly after or on a subscription to the service, and...
Also, we may charge you up to the amount you have approved.
Up to? Sweet! It looks like Microsoft decided to make it clear that they weren't required to take your money. For some reason.
It also mentions that subscriptions will be automatically renewed unless you say otherwise, and that free trials might automatically upgrade (and charge you). Standard, but ugh. I think I already complained a lot about this practice earlier though.
In addition, the price we set for certain features or functions in the Service may vary depending on whether the features or functions are accessed from Xbox LIVE or from Games for Windows LIVE...
Huh, that's weird. They can have different prices for the same service on your Xbox and PC.
Unless otherwise provided by law or in connection with any particular Service offer, all charges are earned when received and are non-refundable...
The usual.
If we make an error on your bill, we’ll correct it promptly after you tell us and we investigate the charge. You must tell us within 120 days after an error first appears on your bill.
It looks like they have a pretty good policy on billing errors. Again, not much to say though.
Oh, and alarmingly, they reserve the right to cancellation charges.
Some Service offers may require you to pay cancellation charges as stated in the materials describing the offer.
It also says you're responsible for paying for your own internet service, and mentions that content purchases are covered further in section 10.
Oh, and section 7 is just regarding payments made to... presumably people selling things through XBL, or refunds. It's only one paragraph and it mostly just says that they can't pay you if you don't provide your payment information.
8. Your Content.
This is the part that says you have no rights to things you post!
Basically, the whole section describes the various ways in which any content you put on XBL becomes open content. Most notably:
...you grant to those members of the public to whom you have granted access (for content posted on shared and private areas of the Service) or to the public (for content posted on public areas of the Service), and, in either case, to us, free, unlimited, worldwide, nonexclusive, perpetual, and irrevocable permission to:
* use, modify, copy, distribute, and display the content in connection with the Service and other Microsoft products and services;
* publish your name, Gamertag, or other information you supply in connection with the content; and
* grant these rights to others.
Not quite as silly as the one in World of Tanks (they only went for worldwide rights, whereas World of Tanks claims rights including on the moon), but still pretty crazy. Same goes with photos, it basically considers you to have signed a release form in the act of posting one.
If the submission is a photograph or other digital image, you also expressly waive any and all rights of privacy and publicity with respect to the image.
As far as I know, there haven't been any scandals with this. But I'd like to make clear what this allows: Let's suppose, theoretically, you uploaded a picture of yourself naked somehow. Say, you forgot your camera was on and taking video of you playing a game and you sat down on your catch for some pre-breakfast video games. Microsoft could then, legally, sell this picture. Mm-hmm. It's what you're agreeing to. They wouldn't, but suppose a less trustworthy company had this sort of agreement? Think about it.
Oh, and on a less sensational note, it says not to violate copyright and to back up your own data.
9. Privacy.
Whee! This is what they do with your credit card number (note it has nothing to do with user-uploaded content such as photos).
First off, it says that collecting certain information about you is necessary to provide the service. It may be disclosed, however.
In particular, we may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process; (b) protect the rights or property of Microsoft, our partners, or our customers, including the enforcement of our agreements or policies governing your use of the Service; or (c) act on a good faith belief that such access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers, or the public.
I'm not sure when disclosing your personal information will be necessary to protect Microsoft employees, but most of this makes sense.
We may use technology or other means to protect the Service, protect our customers, or stop you from breaching this contract. These means may include, for example, filtering to stop spam or increase security. These means may hinder or break your use of the Service.
"The spam filter might break your account." That's... frank.
It also says that information about things like online time and gameplay is collected for various purposes (such as leaderboards or charting server load).
You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service.
Good internet advice. It says that you may be monitored, but shouldn't rely on it.
10. Intellectual Property. I'm on page 10 of 15.
Basically, this says that you don't have copy rights to the software you download. You cannot resell it, etc.
...the software and Service are solely licensed and not sold.
And, it says not to hack or jailbreak it.
You must not work around any technical limitations in the software. You must not disassemble, decompile, or reverse engineer any software that’s included in the Service...
The software is subject to U.S. export laws and regulations.
Okay, that's pretty normal. What else does it entail?
Without limitation, you may not transfer the software or Service without U.S. government permission to anyone on U.S. government exclusion lists... the governments of Iran, Sudan, or Cuba; or prohibited members of the Cuban Communist Party.
Holy crap. Yikes. Wow. No communists allowed, huh? Don't think I've seen this in other EULAs.
11. Microsoft Points.
If you didn't know already, Microsoft points are the currency used to buy things on XBL. You can purchase it directly from your credit card or from cards sold in stores.
If you obtain Microsoft Points, you have obtained a limited license to a digital product. Points have no monetary value.
Yadda yadda, the usual.
...no refunds are available for unused Points. Points may only be available for purchase in a few denominations.
Okay, that's actually more sinister than it sounds. The "few denominations" mentioned are offset a little from the standard price points of their products- so that when you buy things with Microsoft Points, you tend to have a little left over that's too little to spend on anything, and you can't ever seem to exchange the exact amount of real currency you're paying for an item. So not only does it obscure the actual price of an item sold on XBL (even if you do the math to convert points to currency, you have to buy the fixed, odd amounts of points), it leaves you with "money" that you can only really make use of if you buy more Microsoft points to even it out. Genuinely evil.
It also says that they can delete your points (but only if they suspect you're doing something fraudulent) and that free points given out for promotions might have an expiry date (but regular points don't expire).
12. Service Operation and Equipment.
This is kind of a long segment, but it basically only says stuff about not reverse engineering or modifying your console. And, more importantly, it says that Microsoft can attempt to detect hacked consoles and shut down their Xbox live service (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I).
13. How We May Change the Contract.
This section is really short. All it says is that they can change the contract and you have to agree with it. Remember, there apparently used to be a provision here saying that they had to give you 30 days' notice, but they removed it.
14. WE MAKE NO WARRANTY.
They make no warranty! This is so you can't try to sue Microsoft because XBL went down Friday night. They do note, though: You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws that this contract cannot change.
15. LIABILITY LIMITATION.
You can recover from the Microsoft parties for all claims only direct damages up to a total, aggregate amount equal to your Service fee for one month.
That's right: This section says no matter what happens to XBL or Windows Live (service down/incompatible, loss of data, virus destroys your computer through windows live, Microsoft breaches an agreement with you) -note that those things are specifically listed- you're entitled to, at maximum, a month's service fee, of ten dollars or so.
It also applies even if this remedy does not fully compensate you for any losses, or fails of its essential purpose or we knew or should have known about the possibility of the damages.
Jeez.
16. Changes to the Service; If We Cancel the Service.
This is also a pretty short section... it says that if they change or cancel the service, you basically have to deal with it. The only provision here they make in favor of the consumer is that if they close down the service "without cause", they'll refund you for the subscription time you won't get.
17. General Legal Terms ugh this bit looks boring...
There's a lot of loosely-related or unrelated clauses here. Let's look at the important ones:
A court may hold that we cannot enforce a part of this contract as written. If this happens, ...the rest of this contract won’t change.
Pretty much standard.
If you are accessing the Service within Germany, the agreement located at http://www.xbox.com/de-DE/legal/LiveTOU applies.
Well, I have no idea what to make of this. As usual, Google translator turns anything German into a complete word salad. However, it appears to be basically the same contract. I just can't figure out what the differences are (apparently Germany was significant legally, because there isn't a separate TOU for any other country mentioned here).
Assignment and Transfer. We may assign, transfer, or otherwise dispose our rights and obligations under this contract, in whole or in part, at any time without notice.
This section really bugs me. It's basically a clause that says Microsoft doesn't have to keep any of its agreements made in this contract, at all, and it doesn't have to tell you about it. Really. Weasels.
Claims Must Be Filed Within One Year. You must bring any claim related to this contract or the Service within one year after the date you could first bring the claim, unless your local law requires a longer time to file claims.
This says any legal claim regarding XBL has to be filed within one year... however, I can't imagine a situation in which this would override the limit or lack thereof given by national or state laws regarding lawsuits. In fact, I think they might as well just ask pretty please with a cherry on top and get the same results before a court.
Section 18 says that legal claims regarding the EULA are carried out under Washington State law if they're in America and under the appropriate local laws in other countries, basically.
19. NOTICES.
Oh screw this section it just says Microsoft has copyrights on its logo and crap.
We're Done! Finally. Gog.
Maybe I was just tired when I started, but my brain feels especially pudding-like after this one. After having read a few EULAs, I'm kind of surprised that new and creative clauses we can get angry at keep coming up- but they do.
So, what should we do next? Also, do you guys like the long posts or prefer short, less pudding-inducing ones?
-
You're cutting out the undifferentiated stuff and showing us the good pieces, shortening them without choosing shorter contracts would drop interesting tidbits. You can always take a break though, the length of which always up to you. I'm guess the World of Warcraft contract is next?
-
You may start using the Service as soon as you have finished the sign-up process... except if the law requires a "cooling off" period despite your waiver and even when a Service starts right away.
Which is a weird thing to say, because I don't know of any law that prevents you from accessing an online service immediately, anywhere. Just an odd provision, I guess, or maybe it applies only to Estonia or something.
As a person who was born and lives in Estonia, I believe I can say "Nope" with 99% certainty, unless I have been horribly breaking laws for years.
-
I feel weird. You reccomend reading these with breaks... I read all 3 in about 15 minutes, no breaks.
Is this bad?
-
I feel weird. You reccomend reading these with breaks... I read all 3 in about 15 minutes, no breaks.
Is this bad?
That's quite fast, but, my perception of their length is probably pretty warped because I'm writing the post and reading the actual EULA.
-
Watching. This is strangely interesting.
-
I'm back from a brief traveling sojourn. I'll do the WoW EULA sometime this week, if I haven't got any better suggestions (and all next week I'm traveling again).
-
So, about when will you post the WoW EULA?
-
I'm back! Sorry for the delay. I didn't want to not play X3 in the little time I had before camp and, since I've gotten back, I've not wanted to not be... some kind of vegetable that reads web comics. Oh, and I was playing Kerbal Space Program. Very dwarfy game, that.
But back on topic- after much ado, I'm going to read through the World of Warcraft End User License Agreement (http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html)! I will be listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_CRbbHzT0Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_CRbbHzT0Q) Stream of Instrumentals to keep track of how much time I'm wasting.
As usual, you're encouraged to follow along with the source material. Pasting the EULA in a word processor might make it easier on the eyes. This is never going to stop bugging me- why must it always be gray text on a gray background? Or in this case, the opposite- microcline-colored?
"YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING WORLD OF WARCRAFT TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT"
Here's the opening bit- right off the bat, it says that you must agree to the agreement (otherwise it wouldn't be an agreement, I guess). If you don't, you get 30 days to request a refund. Which I should say is a little unusual, most EULA's don't make plain provisions for the buyer.
Welcome to Blizzard Entertainment, Inc.’s (“Blizzard”) World of Warcraft® (the “Game”).
There's a few terms out of the way. It also says that battlenet is "the service", and it has its own EULA of sorts, but that's included in the game EULA. Plus that there's a game activation code, yadda yadda, boring, obvious.
1. Grant of a Limited License to Use the Service
For the most part, this just says that you may not use your WoW client for commerical purposes. It also says that:
You may not use the Service... in connection with any other software.
2. Additional License Limitations.
Unshocklingly, this section outlines some limits on your license.
Any use of the Service or the Game Client in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game.
I'm pretty sure that if, for example, you cheated, it can't be held as a copyright violation. I think that's kind of like catching someone jaywalking and accusing them of a parking violation- it doesn't really make a difference, but you might as well be correct about it.
You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:
Ooh, list!
...use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software.
exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Service, for any commercial purpose...
It goes on the detail that this means gold farming, use in cyber cafes, power leveling, and other things that are beneficial to the Korean economy.
use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, “mines,” or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service... Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;
So, you can't open up a site like WoW Stats unless you get the OK from Blizzard.
modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game Client or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;
The list goes on a little, and also forbids trying to knock down the network or hosting emulators.
3. Eligibility.
You represent that you are an adult in your country of residence. You agree to these Terms of Use on behalf of yourself and, at your discretion, for one (1) minor child for whom you are a parent or guardian...
Here's weird rules about kids again, like in XBLA and PSN. Apparently it's a violation of the agreement to let two kids share an account.
4. Ownership.
This just says that by owning a copy of the game you don't own the intellectual property or the right to publish copies.
5. No Ownership Rights in Account.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN ANY ACCOUNT STORED OR HOSTED ON A BLIZZARD SYSTEM... YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO SUCH ACCOUNTS ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF BLIZZARD.
This says you don't actually "own" your account. I'm pretty sure this has two practical ramifcations:
-You can't claim property losses if your account is deleted or lost;
-Blizzard can publish information on your account (for example if a blizzard-published commercial had footage of players chatting).
6. Account Suspension/Deletion.
BLIZZARD MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY BNET ACCOUNT OR WORLD OF WARCRAFT ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON
And that sums it up. Also, it has a hyperlink to the EULA page in this section. Which is funny, because this section is on the EULA page. Kind of like this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=86726.0).
7. Code of Conduct.
So far the EULA has been pretty reasonable, as EULAs go. Maybe we'll find something funny here...
As with all things, your use of the Game is governed by certain rules.
How deeply philosophical, Blizzard.
Up next is... a list! It also notes that the list is "not intended to be exhaustive" and Blizzard employees have the banhammer at their discretion. Actually, it's not a list. It's three lists, listed in order. My head is starting to list back and forth just thinking about that... I'll just keep it short and pick at the odd parts, but the basics are all in here too.
First up is usernames and guild names (it notes that Blizzard GMs can change names or ban accounts). In particular, you may not use any name:
That belongs to a popular culture figure, celebrity, or media personality;
Huh. I wonder how much that's enforced; I've heard tales of whole clans consisting of characters named after Naruto or Chuck Norris.
Belonging to any religious figure or deity;
That reminds me, I should make a Jesus character in City of Heroes.
Taken from Blizzard's Warcraft products, including character names from the Warcraft series of novels;
Hm, jeez. They sure are restricting a lot of names that have to do with being related to things. Which I think makes up a good portion of names in MMOs.
(ix) Comprised of partial or complete sentence (e.g., "Inyourface", "Welovebeef", etc);
(x) Comprised of gibberish (e.g., "Asdfasdf", "Jjxccm", "Hvlldrm");
(xi) Referring to pop culture icons or personas (e.g. " "Britneyspears", "Austinpowers", "Batman")
(xii) That utilizes "Leet" or "Dudespeak" (e.g., "Roflcopter", "xxnewbxx", "Roxxoryou")
On the one hand, this is pretty sweet. On the other hand, nothing can truly stamp out the slavering masses of twelve year olds.
That incorporates titles. For purposes of this subsection, "titles" shall include without limitation 'rank' titles (e.g. , "CorporalTed," or "GeneralVlad"), monarchistic or fantasy titles (e.g., "KingMike", "LordSanchez"), and religious titles (e.g., "ThePope," or "Reverend Al").
Jeez. Restrictive much?
Then there's the THOU SHALT NOT list for chat:
First there's the bits about being offensive, and then a massive amount of rules regarding stomping out spammers. In fact, anti-spam makes up a good half of the section.
Communicate directly with players who are playing characters aligned with the opposite faction (e.g. Horde communicating with Alliance or vice versa);
I think this is the one weird rule on the list. What does directly mean? Can you get in trouble for stopping and chatting in the PVP zone? Or is it for, say, VOIPing with people in the other faction- how would they enforce that?
Then, there's the bit on gameplay conduct. All that it explicitly prohibits is exploits, but this section actually has a notable paragraph in which Blizzard justifies what is not a violation of conduct, and explains their reasoning. You rarely see something like that in an EULA.
Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race.
Sadly, the people who call WoW support trying to get them to ban PvPers probably don't read the EULA first. Still I commend Blizzard giving explanation in the EULA.
8. Ownership/Selling of the Account or Virtual Items.
This just says that in-game items have no cash value- so, don't buy/sell them, and don't ask Blizzard for reimbursement.
9. Changes to the Terms of Use or the Game.
If any section gets particularly scary, this will probably be it.
This was a long section, until I cut put the messy synonyms. For example:
Blizzard reserves the right, at its sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add to, supplement or delete, at any time, any of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, any feature of the Game or the Service, hours of availability, content, data, software or equipment needed to access the Game or the Service, effective with or without prior notice...
Becomes:
Blizzard reserves the right... to change... any of the terms... of this Agreement, any feature of the Game... without prior notice...
and it really means the same thing. A lot of reading EULAs consists of doing this, by the way.
They do give one provision:
material changes to this Terms of Use Agreement will not be applied retroactively.
...and one forboding warning:
Blizzard may also impose limits on certain features or restrict your access to parts or all of the Game without notice or liability.
I doubt they would ever sink so low, but this quote just conjures to mind a tooltip saying: "You must buy a WoW Premium Account to access this area! Upgrade now for an extra $4.99 per month!"
10. Termination.
This says, in short, that to terminate the agreement you must remove your client and terminate your account(s).
(http://blogs.amctv.com/movie-blog/terminator.eye.jpg)
Oh, sorry, couldn't help myself.
11. Warranty Disclaimer.
They should have titled this section "there is no warranty". There isn't a warranty.
12. Limitation of Liability.
This is one of those bits I can never seem to cut into easy-to-read chunks. A few notable things: It says first that blizzard shall be liable for NOTHING, in a rather exhaustive list of everything- including contracts. Does this mean that if another company working with Blizzard signs a contract, and their head plays WoW, Blizzard doesn't have to pay up? Then, after that bit, it says that if Blizzard is held liable, no fees shall be paid greater than those "paid by you to Blizzard during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose." As if some court would overturn the first part of this section and uphold the second.
13. Indemnification.
Another ugly chunk. It says you hold Blizzard harmless from attorney's fees and the like- again, as if some court would uphold that.
14. Force Majeure.
Another short section, I'll quote the whole thing:
Blizzard shall not be liable for any delay or failure to perform resulting from causes outside the reasonable control of Blizzard, including without limitation any failure to perform hereunder due to unforeseen circumstances or cause beyond Blizzard's control such as acts of God, war, terrorism, riots, embargoes, acts of civil or military authorities, fire, floods, accidents, strikes, or shortages of transportation facilities, fuel, energy, labor or materials.
Man, is anyone else getting "throughout the universe" flashbacks? Someone had a lot of fun preventing Blizzard from being responsible for delays caused because their EULA angered Zeus.
15. Acknowledgments.
You hereby acknowledge and agree that:
*commence huge list in caps*
You know, I get that EULAs want you pay attention to the all-caps sections, but it makes them godawful hard to read. In fact, I'm pretty sure a lot of EULAs make provisions against people chatting in all caps for just that reason...
Anyway, highlights from the long-winded list:
WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT.
Stream of Instrumentals just ended! Anyway, don't you find the idea of WoW scanning for programs you aren't supposed to be using a little creepy? Sure, this is anti-cheating, but wait until EA Origin refuses to let you play EA games whilst Steam is running...
WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER... FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.
Do you hear that? It's George Orwell. He's rolling. In his grave.
It also says that what you say on WoW/Battlenet can be monitored, and that your personal activities online might be disclosed to authorities.
16. Equitable Remedies.
In the event that you breach this Agreement, you hereby agree that Blizzard would be irreparably damaged if this Agreement were not specifically enforced...
...Blizzard shall be entitled, without bond, other security, or proof of damages, to appropriate equitable remedies with respect to breaches of this Agreement...
In other words, Blizzard reserves the right to lay down the law on EULA violations- that's right, "Equitable Remedies" just means banning/litigation. I'm pretty sure anyone sufficiently inspired could paraphrase, accurately in both contexts, this entire section with quotes from Scarface.
17. Dispute Resolution and Governing Law.
This is the last big section. It looks beastly to read, but hey, there could always be good stuff in here.
To expedite resolution and control the cost of any dispute, controversy or claim related to this Agreement (“Dispute”), you and Blizzard agree to first attempt to negotiate any Dispute ...informally for at least thirty (30) days before initiating any arbitration or court proceeding.
Well, that's weird. This apparently says that you can't file court proceedings until you've spent 30 days trying to negotiate with Blizzard. I wonder if it's worth anything in a court of law.
Then, there's a section that says that if you can't come to an informal agreement, you have a right to an arbitration, but NOT A JURY TRIAL.
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ABSENT THIS PROVISION, YOU WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL.
I guess that means... well not much. You probably already stopped playing the game to revoke the EULA if you're looking for a jury trial. It further says that the American Arbitration Association will carry out the arbitration.
...but wait! There are exceptions:
following Disputes are not subject to the above provisions concerning informal negotiations and binding arbitration: (1) any Disputes seeking to enforce or protect, or concerning the validity of, any of your or Blizzard’s intellectual property rights; (2) any Dispute related to, or arising from, allegations of theft, piracy, invasion of privacy or unauthorized use;
This says that intellectual property and piracy disputes aren't subject to the arbitration clause. In other words, things that most certainly only Blizzard would file against you, not you against Blizzard. So in other words, the earlier bit was just to hamper your ability to use the law in your favor.
For residents outside the United States, any arbitration shall be initiated in the County of Los Angeles, State of California, United States of America.
Dunno what to say about this. At least it's a populous count, so they aren't obviously trying to take advantage of some weird law. It says that disputes for US residents take place at a "convenient location".
Except as expressly provided otherwise, this Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the Laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles.
Wait, what, they want disputes in California and lawsuits in Delaware? Why should they even get to choose? This rubs me the wrong way.
The application of the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded.
Good luck getting the United Nations to uphold that.
Lastly, it says that if one part of the EULA is overturned, the rest is upheld. I bet that part is always to first to be overturned.
18. Miscellaneous.
This just restates the last bit on keeping the EULA if part of it is overturned (severability).
I HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE FOREGOING TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT AND AGREE THAT MY USE OF THE GAME IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF MY AGREEMENT TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT.
We're done!
Feel free to discuss. Also, what do you think we should do next?
-
I'll be the first to say I'm glad I'm not a part of WoW. All it needs is that "In perpetuity" clause.
-
I should say, it's one of the better ones so far (not that that speaks well of EULAs in general).
-
YOU AGREE, THEREFORE, THAT YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM OR SUIT AGAINST WN, ITS PARENT COMPANIES, DIVISIONS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, OR ANY EMPLOYEES OF ANY OF ABOVE, WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO; (I) A CLAIM THAT YOU "OWN" ANY VIRTUAL GOODS IN ANY GAME, (II) A CLAIM FOR THE "VALUE" OF VIRTUAL GOODS IF WN DELETES THEM (AND/OR TERMINATES YOUR ACCOUNT(S)
What?
... YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM ... AGAINST WN ... OR ANY EMPLOYEES ... WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO <...>
Do I read it right? Do they ask you to agree to never bring any legal case against ANY of their employees which is based on something "BUT NOT LIMITED TO" it?
So if WN janitor kills your wife and children and they include this into the "not limited to" field, you have no right to sue him?
Lulz.
Nah, that'd be counted as an independent action outside of employment.
Unless they ordered him to do it. In which case, given that murder is illegal, it would be a void contract and wouldn't be of any use to anyone anyway.
(At least here in the USA)
-
Taken from Blizzard's Warcraft products, including character names from the Warcraft series of novels;
Hm, jeez. They sure are restricting a lot of names that have to do with being related to things. Which I think makes up a good portion of names in MMOs.
Huh. Technically I am in violation of this one. The random name generator popped out a name that I later learned belongs to a very obscure NPC in the WoW world.
They almost never enforce name violations unless someone deliberately kicks up a fuss. Seeing as how I've gone four years with that name, nobody seems to know or care.
Only the blatant stuff seems to ever get changed. And even then, they can last for weeks before someone finally makes them change. I've seen this from experience. :P
-
Except as expressly provided otherwise, this Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the Laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles.
Wait, what, they want disputes in California and lawsuits in Delaware? Why should they even get to choose? This rubs me the wrong way.
I think I see what they are trying to do here. I believe the reason this exists is to make the process as costly as possible to the consumer. Imagine having to ship yourself back and forth between both ends of the US just to have the law laid down on them.
-
Except as expressly provided otherwise, this Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the Laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of Delaware, without regard to choice of law principles.
Wait, what, they want disputes in California and lawsuits in Delaware? Why should they even get to choose? This rubs me the wrong way.
I think I see what they are trying to do here. I believe the reason this exists is to make the process as costly as possible to the consumer. Imagine having to ship yourself back and forth between both ends of the US just to have the law laid down on them.
They get to choose because it's in the contract! :D
Of course, you'd have to sue in a place convenient for them, as defendant, to reasonably be able to address the issue.
But yes, 10-to-1 it was made to drive up the cost for those attempting to sue.
Also,
"To expedite resolution and control the cost of any dispute, controversy or claim related to this Agreement (“Dispute”), you and Blizzard agree to first attempt to negotiate any Dispute ...informally for at least thirty (30) days before initiating any arbitration or court proceeding."
"YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ABSENT THIS PROVISION, YOU WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL."
Are these two sections actually placed next to one another?
I admit, I'm not exactly sure what they mean by it. I assume it means you just can't sue in the first 30 days.
It'd be ridiculously easy to get that overturned in court if you had to: by pointing out that a fair number of people misunderstand it. :-\
-
No- it means that while bound by the EULA (which I guess means, unless you terminate your account) you may have an arbitration with Blizzard, but not a jury trial.
-
I was considering playing WOW, but now.....I probally won't.
If I decide to play Orc or some shiz like that and my gf decides to be some elf princess or whatever, acording to this contract, we can't contact each other AT ALL.
...
Thats taking role playing WAY to seriously.....
Also, I don't like the naming regulations(even if the are never enforced) I can be banned just by naming my charecter OrcShogun, or whatever?
Blizzard. I am Dissapoint
-
Well... no. If she's alliance and you're horde, you can't communicate in game. You also can't take advantage of mods that translate the gibberish of each letter so you shout out 'I CKA' and have the alliance see 'U SUK'.
Honestly people, it's there as part of the 'don't be a douchbag' clause, not some conspiracy that you shall never talk to people who play the other faction again by any means. ::)
-
Well... no. If she's alliance and you're horde, you can't communicate in game. You also can't take advantage of mods that translate the gibberish of each letter so you shout out 'I CKA' and have the alliance see 'U SUK'.
Honestly people, it's there as part of the 'don't be a douchbag' clause, not some conspiracy that you shall never talk to people who play the other faction again by any means. ::)
My point was, that I won't pay for a product that forbids communication simply for the sake of roleplaying...now if they let individuals change their alignment regardless of race.......
Also, I don't understand why disabling comunication between factions contributes to the "dont be a douche claus" considering that I can still be an ass to other people.
-
Regarding the ban on communication between factions. There was a hammer in Blackrock Depths (vanilla dungeon, years ago) that upon proc allowed the character to speak in Dwarven - Horde too.
Sure it's occasional, but a prepared and determined group could break ze rules with Blizzard's own tools.
-
Yeah, but if you want to chat with your wife, just join her faction. You can make a bunch of characters.
-
D. Expression of Relationship Orientation
You may use the following terms to express your relationship orientation or gender identity in your profile or Gamertag:
* Lesbian
* Gay
* Bi
* Transgender
* Straight
Other terms regarding relationship orientation are not allowed. In addition you may not use these terms or any other terms regarding relationship orientation to insult, harass, or any other pejorative use against other users.
Hmmmmmm. Well, I don't envy whoever was on the committee to write up this policy. Also, what other "terms regarding relationship orientation" are not allowed, exactly? Beastial? You know what, actually, I just don't want to know. :(
Asexual, pansexual, intersex, genderqueer... and that's just off the top of my head. And it's very picky; you can say "gay" but not "homosexual", "transgender" but not "trans*"... Only the exact words they use, no synonyms.
That's kinda disturbing, actually.
-
-
-
If the op hasn't already decided to do something else maby wecould see Steam's EULA.
-
Someone's probably addressed this already but the reason companies incorporate in Delaware and make Delaware state law apply to their products is because the laws in Delaware are very favourable to corporations whether it's copyright or taxation or whatever. It's not really to try and increase the inconvenience of someone having to go to Delaware to sue.
My business law professor would have both agreed and disagreed with you. :P
-
If the op hasn't already decided to do something else maybe we could see Steam's EULA.
Oh psh, Steam's EULA can't be that bad. It contains... well, less than two instances of the word "terrorist". You know what, I think I'll read it.
Say hello to the STEAM® SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT (http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/).
(http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/v5/globalheader_logo.png)
Steam® deserves special mention. It's not exactly a video game, but a social service as well as a service through which video games are bought- so it has the triple coverage of encompassing your communications, credit card numbers, and access to games you've purchased. It's also very popular- if you're reading this thread, you've probably bought a game through Steam®- I have several. While it has very good service, some (few) people have been locked out of their Steam® account, or had it hijacked, and therefore lost access to the games they bought through Steam®, so this legal agreement is something to think about.
Oh, and the text is light gray on dark gray and it's small. ::)
1. REGISTRATION AND ACTIVATION.
Steam is an online service ("Steam") offered by Valve Corporation ("Valve").
You probably already know, but Valve is/was originally a game developer, responsible for Half Life and Portal, among others.
You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration.
Like when you buy a disc and then it forces you to download your entire game via Steam®. A lot of games force Steam® onto your computer, so a video game purchase can effectively come wrapped in the Steam® agreement as well as its own EULA.
Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content ("Subscriptions") available to Subscribers.
This is the famous Steam® sales, and why people are willing to put up with steam (I give up with the ® crap) forcing itself onto their computers.
Unless you are a Licensed Cybercafe Operator (as defined below), this Agreement does not allow you to exploit the Software... for any commercial purpose... A "Licensed Cybercafe Operator" is a Cybercafe that has agreed to the Subscription Terms
Apparently, there's an additional agreement (http://store.steampowered.com/cybercafe_agreement/) for cybercafe operators. I briefly skimmed it and it doesn't seem interesting except that there apparently are certain rules governing Valve's content on Xbox consoles (Xbox Live does not have Steam support at this time).
This section also says that other "subscriptions" (any software or content) may come with additional terms, such as fees (mostly the steam store), and that there is a privacy policy (http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.htm) (I haven't read it thoroughly).
Lastly, your registration creates and account, which you are responsible for.
2. LICENSES
Firstly is a bit on "License terms:
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of software and other content and updates onto your computer ("Software").
This first part goes on to cover that this mostly just means automatic steam updates (which in practice I've noticed it actually asks for) and preloading games. It also mentions that Valve CHOOSES to give you updates, and you are not entitled to them, so be thankful, peasant!
Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software... The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.
This is on basically everything, but it really bugs me. Does it mean I don't own the software (and the rights to modify, sell, claim etc) or the right to use it? It also goes on (in terms that seem to be explaining what a download is) that, in short, you can download a potentially limited number of copies of the game and you have to download the steam client to do so.
Then there's Beta Software Terms. This can summed up to two details: You lose beta access at Valves discretion (when the commercial version is released, at latest) and it's not their problem if it screws up your computer. After that there's a section on the Source SDK (a tool for designing/modding source engine games) that says it's to be used for non-commercial purposes only. Then it says you don't own any intellectual property...
Aha, a bit titled "Restrictions"! Maybe something interesting it in here...
Except as otherwise permitted under Section 2(C) with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile... any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent...
Well, that's a bit odd. Someone let me know if you figure out how to photocopy software.
3. MERCHANDISE
Valve may from time to time offer items other than software, content and services for purchase via Steam (e.g., apparel, books, posters, etc.) ("Merchandise").
Huh, didn't know they did that.
This just says that you have to pay shipping taxes if you're international (not from AMERICA) and Valve is responsible for not losing the item until it is given to you (after which point it's your own damn fault if you lose it). Apparently you can also return merchandise with a receipt within 30 days... unless you're European. No really: The terms of this Section 3.C do not apply to European Union consumers.
Yes, section C is their return policy. There's no mention of a separate EU return policy.
4. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS
Most of this deals with credit cards. Aside from agreeing that you aren't committing credit card fraud, This section covers that any changes to payment information will be given 30 days notice. Oh, and of course, no refunds.
ALL STEAM FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART.
It also briefly covers that you may keep a "Steam wallet" which basically works like you would expect.
After the agreement explains credit card transactions, it says that if you but something in a store you may be required to make a steam account- I think I mentioned that earlier in brief.
Valve may offer or require a Subscription for purchasers of retail packaged product versions... The "CD-Key" or "Product Key" accompanying such versions is used to activate your Subscription.
Curiously, there's a paragraph about free stuff:
In some cases, Valve may offer a free Subscription to certain services... As with all Subscriptions, you are always responsible for any Internet service provider, telephone, and other connection fees...
I guess they were worried that people might think "free" means Steam gives you internet access so you can download their freebies.
After that, it talks about links to third party sites, and as usual says that Valve isn't responsible for your dealings with third parties. Then there's a big chunk labeled "Pricing and Payment for merchandise".
The prices for Merchandise displayed on Steam are subject to change at any time without notice.
Eh, that's not as scary as it probably sounds. Chiefly this part of the agreement details that tax will not be displayed on the price of items until you're in the payment screen. There is ONE interesting detail, however:
Shipping and handling charges displayed on Steam may or may not reflect the actual charges paid by Valve.
GASP! How could this be? Well, Valve explains...
All war-risk, marine, or other insurance; harbor charges; tolls; wharfage; demurrage; wharf handling; duties, or warehousing charges are excluded from Merchandise prices displayed on Steam and are your responsibility.
Huh. That's... thorough. Has anyone here ever had to pay war-risk charges on shipping? For something the likes of which steam sells, no less?
Oh, also if Valve forgets to tell you about taxes you still have to pay them.
Failure on Valve's part to invoice you for any such taxes does not relieve you of the liability to pay such taxes. You will promptly reimburse Valve for all taxes or other charges imposed upon Valve by any national, state or municipal government upon the sale...
You know, in case Valve is like me and has no idea who might have to pay war risk insurance.
5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR
In long winded terms, you are required not to use cheats (which Valve defines as software or hardware meant to give a person an unfair advantage in a multiplayer game), create cheats, or try to circumvent software that looks for cheats.Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat...
Hmm... This makes perfect sense in practice (Valve can ban you for illegal activities) but it also means organizing drug deals on TF2 chat is "cheating", which is a little questionable as far as the vernacular goes.
The EULA just provides a link (http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=online_conduct) to the code of conduct, and I'll go over that as well. It's a very brief 'you will not' list. Chiefly
-Do not violate intellectual property rights
-Do not upload viruses or attack steam servers
-Don't use Steam for pyramid schemes, chain letters or information harvesting
-Don't be a douche to people ("Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten")
-Do not violate "applicable laws or regulations".
6. THIRD PARTY CONTENT
Very brief: "Third party content isn't us. Love, Valve"
7. USER GENERATED INFORMATION
After establishing what User Generated Information is (thinks you say or post online) Valve mostly just says that they get rights to it.
...you expressly grant Valve the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.
Translation:
...you... grant Valve the... right to use... the User Generated Information... without attribution to you, and without... compensation...
Even with the mass ellipses, that's easier to read. Darn legalese.
8. DEDICATED SERVER
This establishes that if you host servers, you may do so on as many computers as you like, but you are responsible for bandwidth costs.
9. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES
This is a long section in all caps. It's in three subsections.
Disclaimers:
VALVE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS (I) ANY WARRANTY FOR STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, AND (II) ANY COMMON LAW DUTIES WITH REGARD TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT.
This says that Steam and associated products have no warranty, and they can't be charged with negligence or lack of workmanlike effort... wait.
INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT.
LACK OF NEGLIGENCE
Is "duties of lack" a thing? Because if it is, maybe they just forgot a comma. Otherwise, typo or no, the Steam® Subscriber Agreement says that you can't legally charge Valve with not being negligent enough. Don't ever say Valve lacks negligence.
There's some other stuff here, but only one thing that really sticks out:
ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT THAT MAY BE PROVIDED IN SECTION 2-312(3) OF THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE AND/OR IN ANY OTHER COMPARABLE STATE STATUTE IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED.
Apparently, Valve thinks they can just waive the Uniform Commercial Code. If you're wondering, here's UCC §2-312 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-312.html) and 2-312(3) says:(3) Unless otherwise agreed a seller who is a merchant regularly dealing in goods of the kind warrants that the goods shall be delivered free of the rightful claim of any third person by way of infringement or the like but a buyer who furnishes specifications to the seller must hold the seller harmless against any such claim which arises out of compliance with the specifications.
After reading some legal papers (OCD warning sign?) it seems that this is meant to protect purchasers of goods (not usually end users) who have requested custom products of some kind. I'm not even sure how this applies to Steam, since you can't buy anything according to your "specifications" (the legal definition of which is slightly debated). Still, it bugs me that they're basically saying they're exempt from a particular law.
Limitation of Liability:
This basically says that if you can't access your products- be it that you lost your account, your computer exploded, you took a camping trip and didn't have internet access, or whatever the reason, it's not Valve's problem.
No Guarantees:
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).
This makes sense in practice (Valve does not guarantee that its service won't fail for some reason), but to a consumer reading it, well... the wording just isn't pleasant. I imagine a restaurant not guaranteeing spit-free hamburgers.
10. EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES
By "Exclusive Remedies", this means that there is only one remedy offered for a dispute with Valve (I wonder what happens if you dispute that).
For merchandise (IE physical goods) it simply says to refer to to 3c, their return policy. For software:
...YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.
Well, huh. I think the effect would be the same if they said to just deal with it. I mean literally- they said "If you have a dispute with Steam service, your only remedy is to shut down your account." Following that is a clause saying that if they are found liable for something they will be so to the least extent applicable under law.
11. INDEMNIFICATION
You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Valve, its licensors and their affiliates from all liabilities... that arise from or in connection with breach of this Agreement, use of Steam or any Subscription or any related content, or any User Generated Information...
This mostly isn't that bad, as far as EULAs go. However, the bit about 'holding Valve harmless from liabilities from a breach of the agreement' is worrying in that it doesn't state whether it's you or Valve breaching the agreement- it could be interpreted so that if Valve breaches their EULA you have to indemnify them for it.This Section regarding Indemnification shall survive termination of this Agreement.
I don't think that's how it works... and at that, we still haven't seen an exit clause from this agreement (such as WoW's EULA saying that you are free of the agreement if you terminate your account).
12. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT
If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after your receiving notice of the amended Agreement, either via e-mail or as a notification within the Software.
That's the important bit- 30 day warning on revisions (even if that just means showing you the entire EULA and saying it's updated, like most companies do). Still a lot better than nothing.
13. TERM AND TERMINATION
...Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account... at any time.
You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.
(emphasis mine) That means that it's the only right or remedy you get for disputes with Valve. They're really bent on not allowing lawsuits.
This section also provides the terms of cancellation. If your account is canceled by you or Valve, you will have to pay anything charged from before your cancellation. Also, Valve may CHOOSE but is not required to give you stand-alone versions of your purchases (so you probably won't be seeing your steam games again).
Sections 2(D), 2(E), 7, 9, 10, 11, 13(D), 14, and 15 will survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement.
Again, contract terms you apparently can't escape unless some government court forces Valve to drop it. Not good (although they probably WILL drop as soon as any court of law is involved).
14. APPLICABLE LAW/JURISDICTION
...any legal proceeding by you against Valve shall be commenced and maintained exclusively in any state or federal court located in King County, Washington...
Finally, a company that just chooses the place it's from for legal jurisdiction. Apparently this doesn't apply to EU customers (I guess they get... some European court?)
In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses.
So, if you put out a lawsuit against Valve and win you have to pay the legal fees, which are pretty much guaranteed to be more money than you will ever spend on Steam (unless you have a serious spending problem).
15. MISCELLANEOUS
In the event that any provision of this Agreement shall be held... to be unenforceable, such provision will be enforced to the maximum extent permissible...
Wow. In other words, they will try to enforce any bit of the agreement, even within a portion that a court of law has ruled to officially be BS.
Valve's obligations are subject to existing laws and legal process and Valve may comply with law enforcement or regulatory requests or requirements notwithstanding any contrary term.
This just means that if the cops come asking for chat logs, Valve won't check their EULA first.
You agree to comply with all applicable import/export laws and regulations of the United States and its governmental and regulatory agencies...
Well I guess that makes sense, being that this comes from the US...
You agree not to export the Software or allow use of your Account by individuals of any terrorist supporting countries...
AMERICA: Stopping terrorists from playing video games! Apparently they don't want to give them any software encryption tools, and since Steam uses software encryption, it's out.
We're done!
Remember- when it comes to business law, everyone is a dick! What do you guys think we should do next?
-
Hold on...
In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses.
So, if you put out a lawsuit against Valve and win you have to pay the legal fees, which are pretty much guaranteed to be more money than you will ever spend on Steam (unless you have a serious spending problem).
Maybe I'm reading this wrong... but my interpretation of "prevailing party" is "the person who won", and "entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses" indicates that someone else is paying said fees. Doesn't this clause actually mean that the loser of a lawsuit is responsible for the victor's fees and expenses? It's still bad (Valve spends millions on high-priced lawyers, wins, and you're now on the hook), but it's a lot better than you paying Valve's fees if you win.
Other than that, interesting. I guess a 30-day warning (and with them actually having to notify the user, not just put up an amendment that you might not be informed of) is better than nothing!
-
So.... this contract is all ways valid, and if you have a problem, they can delete your account and be on their marry way? WHY SO MEAN VALVE
-
So.... this contract is all ways valid, and if you have a problem, they can delete your account and be on their marry way? WHY SO MEAN VALVE
Not really depending on where you live.
For example in many countries a EULA is considered instantly invalid because it requires you to purchase the product before signing the contract (essentially invalidating it) as if it was legal it would be taking someone's money, never to return it, whether or not they agreed to their contract (Imagine if Cars worked that way "I want to buy that car", "Ok it costs this much", "Ok here you go", "Thanks now that I have your money I will make you sign a multipage contract", "No, I don't want to", "Ok fine", "Uhh do I get my money back", "Heck no! you bought the ability to sign this contract you didn't buy the car", "Wait so you own the car too? I thought you just owned the intellectual property of the car", "No we ALSO own your car, you just have the ability to hold onto it unless you sign this contract at which point we fully own it". In some the fact that no one ACTUALLY reads the EULA is one of the reasons why it has little legal power.
In the USA the EULA's have more legal bearing, as far as I am aware, not because the contract is completely valid but because by law they are allowed to uphold legal parts of a contract. (at least that is what someone said to me. Since I was quickly able to pick out illegal sections of the EULA, but they said as long as one section was "legal" or "valid" then that one section would be valid)
In otherwords making all those insane demands in EULAs actually is the way to go. By attrition your bound to get something right.
To me EULA's are frankly... shady.
Honestly I know how the laws work in my country surrounding contracts... but the way that one "lawyer" explained things to me it makes it sound like honestly... Every single movie EVER where someone was scammed/forced into signing a contract and forced to obey it is based upon actual american law. Is that true?
Mind you I still refuse to believe out of pure childish belief in the american legal system... that "We can change our contract on you at anytime without telling you" is legal.
-
It actually is. You signed the contract they can do what they want. But, if they contract breaks one law, the entire contract is considered void, most of the time.
-
...you... grant Valve the... right to use... the User Generated Information... without attribution to you, and without... compensation...
Huh. That's odd, considering the fact that you get money if a weapon you made is bought in TF2. Apparently valve has the right, but doesn't want to use it.
-
Yeah- by and large, companies are much less evil than their EULAs give them the (disputable) right to be.
-
Hmm... What about the ROBLOX EULA? (if it has one).
Considering their forum rules, that's bound to be interesting.
-
I'm glad to see Valve isn't as evil in their EULA as SNEA is.
Also, that's a funny acronym.
SNEA. SNEE-UH. Sounds like a tribal chant.
Snea snea snea, eaaaaaa, sneeaaaaa, rain for us great god of sky, snea snea snea eaaaa sneaaaaa.
-
Still need to read this, but seriously, I recommend the iTunes EULA, oh god.
-
Yeah- by and large, companies are much less evil than their EULAs give them the (disputable) right to be.
Yeah for the most part the EULAs are made in a way that just gives the company a lot of options.
Mind you, some EULAs have been attempted to be enforced.
-
Still need to read this, but seriously, I recommend the iTunes EULA, oh god.
Was that the one that told you that you cant use it to further the goals of enemies of the United States? One of these EULAs I saw had something stupid like that.
-
Yup
-
I'm not terribly interested in doing the iTunes one. While surely interesting, it's already been covered plenty.
-
Ah, go figure. I guess there really is an EULA reading community out there.
-
Well for example, you all remember the most interesting parts of it already- and somebody also mentioned celebrity dramatic readings.
(http://www.randomruckus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/The-sea-was-just-too-mainstream.jpg)
-
Here, have at this (http://www.facebook.com/terms.php) one.
And it's actually readable.
-
And after that one, how about the new Impulse terms of service? Of course that's if everyone would be fine with that. It's just even though not many people like impulse and stuff like that, certain games get on there before they are released on steam.
-
As I said, the ROBLOX EULA is bound to be interesting.
-
I read the Roblox EULA- it's rather short and generally uninteresting. I haven't seen the forum guidelines you mentioned earlier.
I might do Impulse or Facebook next, maybe Roblox forum guidelines (but like I said, the EULA has little to it).
-
I read the Roblox EULA- it's rather short and generally uninteresting. I haven't seen the forum guidelines you mentioned earlier.
I might do Impulse or Facebook next, maybe Roblox forum guidelines (but like I said, the EULA has little to it).
That's pretty surprising. On their forums you can't mention any other game, and most words are blocked (Mine, Block, Terraria ect.)
-
I read the Roblox EULA- it's rather short and generally uninteresting. I haven't seen the forum guidelines you mentioned earlier.
I might do Impulse or Facebook next, maybe Roblox forum guidelines (but like I said, the EULA has little to it).
That's pretty surprising. On their forums you can't mention any other game, and most words are blocked (Mine, Block, Terraria ect.)
Sounds like the makers of roblox are preeeeeeeeteeeeeeeeeeeetttttttty butthurt buttraging over the fact that every mining/block based game on the market has done better than them.(afaik)
-
Do their forum rules reflect the insanity? Send me a link.
Reminds me somewhat of the Wyrdysm forums (for the game Battleships Forever). The admins there rule with an iron fist and an unmedicated temper. But I digress- yeah, it's not surprising that the admins of a really small game forum rule like despots. People who are admins because they were the dev's friends seems to be a formula for internet drama.
-
The ROBLOX wiki page on their forum:
The Rules
The Forum Moderators try to keep things in line, but it's best if you use the forum with some common sense. Think of talking on the forum like being in school. All the rules of Roblox still apply, and you're there to talk to other people. Not to spam or be mean to each other, just to talk.
Also, if something is going down or a new rule has been introduced a moderator will pin a post to let you know about it. What this means is that their post is stuck to the top of the forum and doesn't go down like regular posts. Pinned posts tend to stay there for a few weeks, so it's probably a good idea to read it.
The current and complete rules are right here. Read 'em at least once. [This was a link]
The rules aren't very complex though. As long as you aren't mean and you have a point to talk about you'll be fine and the moderators will like you =D That said, a great way to make enemies is to constantly annoy the moderators or make them mad. The less they like you the less likely they are to let you make posts. So follow the rules and treat the forums well, and everyone will get along.
Remember that the Moderators are always right. Whatever they tell you to do overrides what the Rules say. The Moderators are all experienced adults who know how to keep you safe on the Forums.
Choice sections in bold.
My comments in [brackets]
Rules:
This is NOT a complete list. Saying "It's not on the rules" is not an excuse; all moderators are to be given respect and listened to. If they warn you about something they're keeping you from being banned.
IF YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT OR CONCERN ABOUT A MODERATION ACTION ON YOUR ACCOUNT, PM A MOD. Do not post about it here. Do not ask about other peoples' bans or warnings - that's none of your business.
1. If a mod says not to post something, don't post it. This is not up for debate.
2. No foul or abusive language will be tolerated.
Period. It has no place in our community. Attempts to disguise bad language or bypass the language filters will not be tolerated.
3. No personal attacks will be allowed.
You’re welcome to disagree with another member’s opinion but attacking (flaming) and insulting another member is not acceptable. Intentionally starting flame wars could cause you to be banned for a while. Posting "lol look at this stupid thing this person did" is a personal attack. Posting "wow isn't this a nooby place" is a personal attack. Posting PM strings where you totally pwn the other person is a personal attack.
4. No degrading racial comments are allowed.
Self-explanatory. You WILL be banned.
5. No drug, alcohol, or tobacco references.
Discussions about or references to drugs and alcohol are not allowed.
6. No inappropriate references.
There’s no question that Internet is full of degrading inappropriate material and comments. Roblox is fully G-rated, it must be KEPT that way. This will get you instantly banned.
7. No advertising or spamming.
It is our goal to keep the online community free from advertising and spam. We do not allow companies or individuals to actively market products, services, or websites to board members. Links to Roblox stuff is all right, but don't post about your personal chatroom or such.
8. No dangerous or harmful posts.
Posts that encourage members to participate in activities that we deem to be harmful or dangerous to members will be deleted (i.e. lighting things on fire, jumping cars over people etc.). Doing this stuff in Roblox is fine, in the real world it's not and can get you to be seriously hurt.
9. No links off ROBLOX.
No links to sites that are not owned by ROBLOX or related to official ROBLOX projects. So basically only link to roblox.com or the ustream videos.
10. No dating topics.
This isn't a dating help site, keep topics about dating, relationships, girlfriends/boyfriends, crushes, who you LIKE like, who you think is cute/hot, etc. off Roblox. Yes, this includes talking about your real-life relationships.
11. No religion threads.
NO RELIGIOUS THREADS AT ALL ARE ALLOWED. NO POLITICAL THREADS AT ALL ARE ALLOWED. NO WORLD-ENDING THREADS AT ALL ARE ALLOWED. NO 2012 THREADS ARE ALLOWED.
Any threads along the lines of "post hear if you dunt believ in god!!!" will get the thread owner AND ANYONE IN THE THREAD POSTING FLAME POSTS OR TROLLING POSTS banned. That goes for both sides of the arguments.
12. Make threads with an appropriate title. Blank titles are not allowed.
ALL THREADS IN ALL FORUMS MUST ABIDE BY THIS.
Your titles should tell you what the thread is about. It shouldn't be a "surprise". Make the titles mean something.
"Hi there!" is OK.
"I made a new map it's called Battleroads" is OK.
"Guess what!?" is BAD.
"I just...." is BAD.
"place" is BAD.
"Come see!" is BAD.
Spelling it out clear here:
Any title that does not describe the thread is in risk of being locked.
Any misleading title that makes one assume there is different stuff in the thread than there is WILL be locked.
Any title that is deemed inappropriate (by the moderators, not by other users :P ) will be removed and the user punished.
Any JOKE TITLES, involving one to assume that you are swearing or otherwise doing inappropriate things in the thread WILL BE TREATED LIKE IT'S THE REAL DEAL. That means you will be banned. Alright? Don't do that, it's really annoying and makes moderation harder to do.
13. Spam is not allowed.
Off Topic is for topics not related for Roblox. This includes things like talking about school, about favorite pets, things like that.
14. Do not reply to threads just to reply.
Replying with things like 'uh.. ya' or 'what' doesn't help the thread at all. If you don't have anything to say, don't say it. If the only thing you can think of to say is mean, don't say that either.
15. Don't pick fights.
Posting things just to get people mad is called flaming. Posting in a thread just to say the topic sucks is trolling. Both are punishable actions.
Posting "pwnd!" or anything similar after a mod corrects another player is also a form of flaming. If a mod corrects another player, do not respond and tell that player how they just got owned. They know they got owned. You know they got owned. Just leave it alone.
Don't respond to people just to respond. If you don't have anything to actually say, don't say anything. Yes, that means that just posting "no u" or "kthxbai" or "inb4lock" or any of those other one-liners is still spam, and is still not allowed.
16. Don't bump old threads. They're cOLD. Leave them alone.
17. Keep your signature short.
There's no support for sigs in here, and having an 8 line sig is annoying and has got to be annyoing to copy and paste all the time. So keep them nice and small, out of the way. Having a sig over 2 lines makes your post longer than your character, making the page longer, meaning more scrolling and more spam.
So keep 'em small and you can keep 'em. Otherwise, no sigs.
Also, don't make posts just to show off your signature, or to include your signature if you forgot it in a previous post. That's direct spam and can get you warnings.
18. Ghost bumping is not allowed.
Again, this is not a complete list. Changes will be made.
-
Wow. That's...uh...wow. Them's some crazy rules.
Choice bits:
NO LINKING TO OUTSIDE SITES
So...you can't even say, "Hey, ROBLOX is cool. Anyone who plays it might also like Minecraft. [link to the minecraft site]"
NO RELIGION OR POLITICAL THREADS
So...there's no room for rational discussion about controversial topics?
Also, I'm a bit confused. Is ROBLOX supposed to be for kids?
-
Well, the political/religious thing is standard fare on the rest of the internet. Bay12games just seems more liable to go for troublemakers than avoid problem topics.
-
It really is a good idea to ban religious/political discussion, though I don't view these bans as actually being common. dragonshardz, rational discussion about controversial topic may quickly devolve into rational flaming and rational trolling, and I don't ever see these discussions being resolved in a positive manner.
-
10. No dating topics.
This isn't a dating help site, keep topics about dating, relationships, girlfriends/boyfriends, crushes, who you LIKE like, who you think is cute/hot, etc. off Roblox.
Okay, yeah, nonstandard but makes sense.
Yes, this includes talking about your real-life relationships.
Wait, what? Is there a lot of interplayer dating on ROBLOX?
-
Hey don't you know? ROBLOX is like the site to go to for interplayer dating :P
-
Posting to watch.
-
Yeah, the Roblox community is pretty f***ed up. ::)
God, if I ever get a job writing EULAs, I will put something along the lines of
"Furthermore, you agree to fight an angry hippo, who may or may not have a chainsaw strapped to it's head."
-
Anyone have an EULA they're curious about, or suspect will be outrageous? If I don't get any good suggestions, I'll probably choose something at random tomorrow.
-
The EA Origin EULA, as it is right now. :V
-
The EA Origin EULA, as it is right now. :V
-
Just going to leave this here, courtesy of RPS. Figured it fits right in with this thread.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/09/14/tripwire-if-you-cheat-well-tell-your-mom/ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/09/14/tripwire-if-you-cheat-well-tell-your-mom/)
-
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
I'm sure, motherfucker.
By popular demand, I'm back! Not that this'll be a regular thing. I got thinking about doing another segment when I tried out MapleStory. In particular (http://i.imgur.com/ww5de.png)
See that truncated, two line bar? This shit pisses me off. It's not actually an EULA, but it's long enough to be a warning. Given how money-grubbing and cash store driven Maple Story is, I figured there must be something good in their EULA. The text in the downloader is actually for Pando Media Booster. Don't worry- I'll cover that later. Let me say ahead of time that if you have Pando Media Booster on your computer, delete it immediately.
For those of you who don't know, Maple Story is an MMORPG by Nexon, a Korean dev/publisher that typified the image of Free to Play MMOs. Maple Story uses side-scrolling enviroments and 2D sprites- it's a relatively simple game, but it earned Nexon the success and funds that would later let them make many other games, such as Vindictus, Mabinogi, and Dungeon Fighter Online. If you've played, or complained about, free MMOs, you've probably encountered Nexon before. They're basically responsible for the success of the cash store format, for better or for worse- when you go on Maple Story's website, try to count the number of cash store ads without getting dizzy. I dare you. Well, actually there's seven.
Without further ado, here's the
Maple Story EULA! (http://tinyurl.com/7wwjg9e)
This one should be relatively short- it works out to only 6 pages in Word. I also have to say, even though their site could be a little better designed for reading large documents, at least it's plain black text on a white background. Jury is out on whether the little character who follows you around with a link to the top of the page is annoying or not.
Preface
There's sort of a preface and a pre-preface on the site. Right away, it gets me wondering if I'm reading the right text. This is in the first bit:
This is the NXgames End User License Agreement that will apply to the latest ver. 0.8 of MapleStory Global.
Then, in the actual preface, it says:
NX reserves the right in its sole discretion at any time to change any of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement. Any changes to this Agreement will be effective UPON POSTING AT HTTP://WWW.MAPLEGLOBAL.COM.
So, they can change their EULA at any time, and they don't have to tell you. They just put it up on the website and it's effective.
The real scary part comes when you go to www.mapleglobal.com. There's just an empty white page that says:
Welcome to nginx!
So, basically, as of this posting, the server at Maple Global is fucked. Have they update since 10/18/2005? Who knows! I'll check again later though.
Lastly, in the preface you are told that Nexon, the game's publisher and developer, will be referred to as NXgames Corporation.
1. Definitions
A whole 424 words devoted to telling us what words mean!
In this section they cover some obvious stuff like that they're referring to MapleStory when they say 'game', and so on, as if someone would say "I was subject to harassment while playing Monopoly and an NXgames GM didn't help me!" This is pretty standard. Of note, "Software" includes data in the game such as character data and apparently game design stuff too, such as:
...titles, themes, objects, items, equipment, accessories, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, text, moving pictures, or any other data adapted for use with or generated by the Game software.
Okay, I guess they didn't want to make a separate "data" definition, but...
...catch phrases...
HMMMM.
2. Grant of License; Restrictions
Limited Grant of License/Terms of Use: NX hereby grants you a non-exclusive, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, limited right and license, during the Term, to access and use the Software, ...solely for your own personal use.
This is, as usual, the part of the EULA that says that you do not own the game or your account- it is a license. Note the non-word "nonsublicensable"- you can't grant anyone else access to your account, basically. I wonder how (or if) this will be affected by theEU ruling (http://tinyurl.com/6qpq5u8) that games must be resell-able.
Restrictions: This is one big paragraph. The majority of it just states in a plethora of terms that you cannot re-sell the software, or any cash item you buy in the game. I wonder, are cash shop items no-trade in the game? It also states in many many terms that you cannot decompile/modify the game or create your own servers for it.
There's one clause in there that says you may not:
...perform, or release the results of, benchmark tests or other comparisons of the Software with other software or materials...
What the hell? Apparently, you can't monitor how much processing power the game is using compared to your other games. In fact, you'd be violating the EULA if you merely did so in private without releasing the information publicly, not that I see how they could know if you did. But seriously, what the hell.
One last one for this section, that was actually at the top of the paragraph:
You hereby acknowledge and agree that you shall not use the Software for any purpose other than playing purposes...
You hear that, gold farmers? And that goes for you too, Cuban terrorists trying to copy our encryption methods! (Note- this is something, as you see in some other EULA's with reflect US law, that the US is actually worried about.)
Grant of License in Your Materials: This section says that NX gets "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, limited, perpetual, nontransferable right and license" to anything you say, do or contribute through their game. Fair enough; would be bizarre if they couldn't include pictures or your character or screenshots including something you said on their website. I have to wonder about the "nontransferable" bit though- does this mean that if they quote you on something you say online, and you publish what you said somewhere else, they can sue you? Or you can't sell your quote to another entity? At least it's only worldwide, and not Throughout the Universe, so if you live on the moon then you won't have to worry about it. Furthermore, they don't have rights to publish anything you say in advertisements shown in the moon colony. (Note- would this mean they don't have to right to any radio transmissions which ultimately leave Earth and can be intercepted outside of orbit?)
3. Service
This makes me think of a french teacher I had in high school who called homework "devoirs", which means duty, like you would say a soldier has duty or something.
Hosting: This just says that NX will host the service. Oh and that they can stop hosting the service at their own discretion without warning for any reason without reimbursement. NX giveth, and NX may taketh away!
Updates: You hereby grant NX your express consent to provide Updates to you by any and all means, with or without your knowledge and/or consent.
Well, this makes sense for an MMO. It's not like you can play the game without updating, anyway.
You acknowledge and agree that NX may, without your knowledge and/or consent, provide Updates to you remotely, including without limitation, by accessing the computer in which you store the Software.
In order to update your software, NX may "access" your computer. Now normally when I think of accessing, I think of reading data. Obviously they can write data too to update the game. This probably means they can check your current version of the software, but it also means that if a rogue NX employee took control of your computer and changed your wallpaper to a dirty picture of your spouse they found on your computer, hey, you said they could when you accepted the EULA!
Your Further Obligations: This just says that you're responsible for paying for your own computer and internet connection. Oddly, it's restated here that you're expected to follow the Terms of Service and their updates.
4. Proprietary Rights
Firstly, this section explains that NX retains all intellectual property write to their software and updates even if it's on your computer. I'll quote most of the section though, as it's rather weird:
You agree to take any action reasonably requested by NX to evidence, maintain, enforce or defend the foregoing rights. You shall not take any action to jeopardize, encumber, limit or interfere in any manner with NX’s ownership of and rights with respect to the Software, or any Derivative Work or Update thereof or thereto. You shall have only those rights in and to the Software... as are expressly granted to you under this Agreement or the Terms of Use.
This is weird- it seems to say that if the shit hits the fan, the EULA obligates you to help prove NX's legal ownership of the software even if the law does not. It also says that you can't do anything that would prevent NX from having ownership of the software, if you could. I neglected to mention in the "definitions" section- "Derivative Works" includes anything based on MapleStory at all, even if it's not made by NX.
"Derivative Work" means a new or modified work that is based on or derived from a preexisting work, including, without limitation, a work that, in the absence of a license, would infringe the copyright in such preexisting work or that uses trade secrets or other proprietary information with respect to such preexisting work.
Depending on how you take it, this means you're obligated to enforce NX taking control of modifications someone not working NX made to the software for some reason (EG somebody wrote a mod that makes the game more efficient) or anything related to MapleStory up to fanfiction, depending whether you read the copyright violation as a requirement or an option.
Lastly, the final sentence in this section (quoted above) seems to imply that you forgo rights to the software (NX's work) or derivative works (your mods and maybe fanfiction) even where your local law would give you rights to it.
5. Confidential Information
Confidential Information: It starts out by saying that you must acknowledge that you will receive confidential information that must remain between you and NX, so I figured that was referring to account passwords and the like. However... well let's just say it's list time. "Such Confidential Information shall, as between you and NX, belong solely to NX and shall include, without limitation...."
...the existence of and terms of this Agreement...
"Oh yes. This little "EULA" thing? That's just a secret between you and me. Don't tell your lawyer about that. Don't even tell him it exists."
...trade secrets, know-how, inventions (whether or not patentable)...
This is weird. I guess they mean that this is included in the program itself. Still... what? Also, it's a little weird that they expect you to keep their non-patentable inventions (I.E. an invention which is obvious, not useful, or not original) a "secret". Very greedy with the ideas, methinks. Very greedy.
...product requirements, problem reports, performance information...
The system requirements for the game? SECRET. DON'T TELL ANYBODY. Bugs you have while playing? SECRET. DON'T TELL ANYBODY. Game isn't running smoothly on your computer? You get the drill.
...algorithms, formulas, schematics...
"No discussing game specifics, guys. How exactly is damage calculated? We like to keep you guessing. Otherwise we can revoke your account and maybe sue you."
...business, product, marketing, third party customers, and financial information...
If any of these things -especially business and financial information- are supposed to be secret, they really shouldn't be telling it to every user who agrees to the EULA. I wonder if "financial information" means "other people's credit card numbers".
Use and Disclosure Restrictions: This explains that the secrets (IE everything in the list above, of which I have only quoted the most objectionable parts) are not to be used by you to develop your own software, that you must prevent dissemination or use of that information, and:
...not to disclose or otherwise provide to any third party, without the prior written consent of NX, any Confidential Information or any part or parts thereof...
Yeah, they want you to get written consent before telling people about your bug reports. Heh.
Exclusions: This explains that you are at liberty to discuss anything deemed confidential information if it's made public through reasons unconnected to you, or that you can prove with written records that you knew/developed it on your own before you could learn it from NX. Which seems normal and fine, until you realize that implies that if this section weren't here, then you'd have tort for any of that, including having an idea before NX and having written proof that you did.
6. NO WARRANTY/LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
This is the section that's in ALL CAPS.
Disclaimer of Warranties: There's no warranties, from anybody. And they mean ANYBODY:
NX AND ITS AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, SUPPLIERS, ADVERTISERS, SPONSORS, PARTNERS AND AGENTS...
Very thorough. You know, in case you thought their advertising agency or some random stockholders implied a warranty. Or, I suppose, if their advertisers or a random stockholder decided to speak out of their ass and say there really was a warranty, this would cover NX. It also says that you use the software entirely at your own risk and that you aren't warranted if the software server has viruses or the like (they did specifically mention viruses, in fact).
Limitation of Liability: Okay, this one's going to take some thinking. Thinking about where lawyers who write EULAs get all their fucking chutzpah.
First, it says NX is not responsible for any damage:
...INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS, LOSS OF DATA OR LOST PROFITS), UNDER ANY CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHER THEORY... EVEN IF NX... HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
Okay, that's pretty brutal, but standard. They're trying to get you to sign off your rights to damages, even where NX has been found blatantly negligent.
Next though, they acknowledge that you might not be able to sign away those rights.
SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.
Having acknowledged that you might not be able to sign away your right to damage -keep that in mind- they say this:
THE SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE MAXIMUM LIABILITY TO NX FOR ALL DAMAGES, LOSSES AND CAUSES OF ACTION, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, NEGLIGENCE) OR OTHERWISE, SHALL BE A MAXIMUM OF TWENTY U.S. DOLLARS.
Yes, fucking really. EVEN IF you charge them with negligence and a court finds that the EULA does not prevent you from doing so as it says, they want to limit the maximum charge for negligence to 20 DOLLARS. Some lawyer envisioned a scenario in which NX blatantly caused negligent damage to someone, had the section of their EULA preventing damages from being awarded struck down in court, and that same court ruling that because of the EULA, NX could owe no more reparation than $20. What. The. Fuck. It's almost cartoonishly villainous.
Other: This just appends that NX is not responsible for errors in the software stemming from modifying the software, running it on a computer that can't handle it, or using the software otherwise in neglect of the EULA.
7. Indemnification
The more of these I read, the scarier that word gets.
...actually, this section is just another redundant note that NX is not responsible for errors arising from using third party software or otherwise misusing the software. Interestingly, this includes "Your Materials". Anyone figure out a way to write your character name that causes the game to crash and potentially damage your computer?
8. Term and Termination
Sense and Sensibility
Firstly, in two chunks, this states that the terms of the EULA are in effect as soon as you press "I Accept" and end when NX says they end- either because you violated the terms, or because NX decided to terminate them "with or without cause". Once again, if you buy cash shop items or the like, it's scary knowing that NX could just shut your account down for no reason if they wanted to.
Effect of Termination: First, it says that when your terms of the EULA ends, you MUST remove the software from your computer, as well as any "Confidential Information" from earlier. I have no idea how they enforce that, because you can just download it at any time anyway. Furthermore:
Termination of this Agreement shall not act as a waiver of any breach of this Agreement and shall not act as a release of your liability for breach of your obligations under this Agreement.
Keep this is mind: NX can terminate their obligations to you, but there is no way, ever, for you to choose to cease your obligations to NX, especially in the event of a lawsuit or the like. Until the day you die. It redundantly states that the other sections of the EULA shall remain in effect through any termination of the agreement, and of course, that NX is not responsible for any losses to you as a result of termination (IE money you spent on the game).
9. General Provisions
This is a very, very long list of other notes that apply to the contract. It's the last section in here, aside from a post-note without a separate heading of its own.
Assignment: You can't assign someone else to the EULA. Not sure why this is in here, since NX spits out their EULA to literally every yahoo who wants to play their game and it very clearly refers to itself as being between the user and NX. Maybe it means that NX's obligations to the EULA (even though they can terminate them at will) don't extend to, say, someone else to whom you gave your account.
Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue:
This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California... Los Angeles County
Here they go again, choosing a place in California as the site of all their lawsuits because the law is favorable to them there. I don't see why this is legal, if neither they nor someone filing a suit is in Los Angeles. It also adds that this is "irrevocable" once you agree to the EULA.
This Agreement shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods, the application of which is hereby expressly excluded.
I've seen this before: Guys, what the fuck. You can't just deny the United Nations on a whim. It's like, double irony that they try to not be governed by the Convention on Contracts. UN: "This contract is abusive, you can't enforce anything in it." NX: "Well, our contract can't be found abusive. It says so in the contract." Again: Chutzpah. And it's not like South Korea isn't a UN member or anything.
Attorneys’ Fees: Nothing unusual here, it just says that the loser or dismissed party in a suit pays all attorney's fees. Question for an actual lawyer: If an attorney files injunction for dismissal of a suit, does the party filing the suit normally pay attorney's fees?
Waiver: It says that if a breach of the EULA by either party is waived, it will not waive future breaches, including those of the same nature.
Severability: If you've been following the thread, you're familiar with this: It's the section that says if one part of the EULA is found invalid, the rest still stand. Every time I see this I wonder if this clause would be worth jack shit if a law said that a contract with any one unlawful part should be found wholly invalid (or vice verse, if it needs to be there if a court would normally cherry-pick unlawful sections).
Relationship of the Parties:
Nothing contained in this Agreement shall be deemed or construed as creating a joint venture, partnership, agency, employment or fiduciary relationship between the parties. ...and the relationship of the parties is, and at all times shall continue to be, that of independent contractors.
"Just because we signed a contract doesn't mean we're friends now."
Force Majeure: It's not NX's fault if they fail to provide service due to:
...acts of God, earthquake, fire, flood, embargoes, labor disputes and strikes, riots, war, acts of a public enemy, error in the coding of electronic files, Internet or other network "brownouts" or failures, power failures, novelty of product manufacture or other unanticipated product development problems, and acts of civil and military authorities.
I like how "novelty of product manufacture" is in there; it basically means "The product is hard to make, so we're late."
U.S. Government Rights: Refers to your rights with the software under US clauses "FAR 12.212 (http://tinyurl.com/7tzngs8) or DFARS 227.7202 (http://tinyurl.com/oeaa77)". Not reading those right now- they're long, dense and far less entertaining.
Export Controls: This says that you agree not to export the software to anywhere it would be prohibited under a US trade embargo, and that you are not in a location under the embargo yourself. Of course, I doubt NX actually stops you from playing merrily if you're in an embargoed nation, but they get to say "Well, he sure told us he wasn't under an embargo!"
Captions and Section Headings: The captions and Section and paragraph headings used in this Agreement are inserted for convenience only and shall not affect the meaning or interpretation of this Agreement.
This... I... What? So meta...
Equitable Relief: This is probably the last scary section. It says that, because of the nature of NX's super secret programs, it would be difficult for them to measure the damage you could cause by breaching the EULA. And that:
...any such breach or threatened breach will allow you or third parties to compete unfairly with NX resulting in irreparable harm to NX that would be difficult to measure...
Keep in mind this apparently includes everything in here.
Get ready for the crazy bit...
...NX shall be entitled to injunctive and other appropriate equitable relief (without the necessity of proving actual damages or of posting a bond), in addition to whatever remedies it may have at law, hereunder, or otherwise.
Read that over again. Yes, you read it right. Apparently, under the force of the EULA, you are required to repay any perceived damages to NX without any proof or bond from them. And that's only under the rule of the EULA, in addition to any damages that may be found under actual laws. I... what? Well, if they really did ask for damages under the EULA, I guess it would just amount to "Pay us $10,000 or we'll ban your precious MapleStory character!"
Entire Agreement; Amendment: This is the last section that follows the normal heading format- we're almost through, folks! It's a brief paragraph that says the EULA supersedes anything else NX told you (like "We won't ban your account just to watch you cry.") Apparently it also overrides "all past dealings and industry custom". Which is weird. I guess that means they're not obligated to do anything they usually do. That's a little bit like a stock broker saying "Normally I wear a grey suit and buy your stocks with direct deposit transactions, but under this agreement you can't be sure that I'm not going to wrap myself up in toilet paper like a mummy and pay you with collectible coins." Eh, whatever.
There's still a little text left folks! Bear with me!
THE GAME AND SERVICE ARE AVAILABLE ONLY TO ADULTS (I.E., THOSE PERSONS 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER) OR, IN THEIR DISCRETION, THE MINOR CHILD (NO YOUNGER THAN 13)...
Yeah, there's tons of unsupervised 10-year-olds clicking the "I Agree" button.
PARENTS OR GUARDIANS ARE LIABLE FOR ALL ACTIVITIES OF THEIR MINOR CHILD.
I wonder if they go after minor children's parents who they perceive have managed to violate their intellectual property by not giving them the rights to their fan fiction?
BY CLICKING ON THE "I ACCEPT" BUTTON BELOW, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT (1) YOU HAVE READ AND REVIEWED THIS AGREEMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY,
I imagine that despite the massive amount of people who play Maple Story, you forum readers right here will make up a considerable portion of the people who have actually read the whole thing.
THIS AGREEMENT CONSTITUTES A BINDING AND ENFORCEABLE AGREEMENT.
"By pressing the "I Agree" button found on this Agreement, you agree to acknowledge that you agree to this Agreement, which is an Agreement."
AND THAT'S THE ENTIRE THING.
Jeeeesus. Long enough for you? I have to admit, I'm pretty impressed that I'm still finding lots of weird, objectionable, and outright scary things I haven't seen before. Now, I'm not planning to do regular installments of this again, but I do promise to do one on Pando Media Booster's (much shorter) EULA before I let this thread sink back a million pages again. Oh, and I tried mapleglobal.com again- now it's just coming up with a "server not found".
Now then- you presumably read the post. Discuss.
Edited: Forgot an image. :(
-
Pando Media Booster...
*shudder*
what exactly does that claim to do, anyway?
-
$20, really? :P
-
Pando Media Booster...
*shudder*
what exactly does that claim to do, anyway?
Pando media booster just seeds additional downloads of the specific game it's installed with, without your permission, which is kind've scummy but not really dangerous, unless your ISP threatens to break into your house and smack you around if you go over the bandwith cap.
-
Super random with the Estonia thing in the xbox post. I actually read through the EULA for that, but was disappointed when I found nothing of it.
Is there actually such a thing as a "cooling off" period in use anywhere at all?
-
I've heard that PMB is malware, and I think it's tripped some of my anti-malware before, but I can't confirm this.
After reading the MapleStory EULA, though, I might be rethinking going back to some of Nexon's other games should I ever get internet back. And I liked playing Combat Arms. MapleStory not so much.
-
what if we grouped together and wrote a perfectly reasonable, end-user friendly, *eula*(spla?) we then emailed to the companies, that would defend the consumers fundamental rights, to which the companies would agree to by allowing us to download or acquire and use their software from any official source? would that be legally sound?(at least as much as the regular kind of eula)
-
Hell yes. You really should do more of these. :P
-
what if we grouped together and wrote a perfectly reasonable, end-user friendly, *eula*(spla?) we then emailed to the companies, that would defend the consumers fundamental rights, to which the companies would agree to by allowing us to download or acquire and use their software from any official source? would that be legally sound?(at least as much as the regular kind of eula)
Of course it would be legally sound. We just have to prefix the email with "By reading the contents of this message, you agree to the terms of the licence contained within..." ;)
-
i was more thinking along the lines of
"By allowing and providing the means for me to acquire a license of any of your software, you agree to the terms of the licence contained within..."
-
i was more thinking along the lines of
"By allowing and providing the means for me to acquire a license of any of your software, you agree to the terms of the licence contained within..."
This is actually an interesting and hilarious premise, and I'm suddenly curious just how that stuff works.
-
we need truean here
-
Ohai, EULA thread. This was an unexpected thing to see again. Are you still planning to do the facebook one eventually, Sensei?
-
Because I can't sleep but feel like I'll make myself stay up too late if I play video games...
I'm back!
This will be a mini one! Today we're covering our beloved friend, Pando Media Booster!
Pando Media Booster is a torrent program licensed by various publishers, most prolifically Nexon, who provides games such as Maple Story, Combat Arms, blah blah blah I covered them in the last post. Its torrent format -that is, what you download is being uploaded by another user, not Nexon's servers- saves them a lot of money in download bandwidth for their games, which is important because those games are mostly free to play and attract a lot of users who don't pay.
The kicker is, of course, once you've finished downloading your game, Pando Media Booster stays on your computer. It seeds a torrent, without asking you, for games you've downloaded. That means that day and night, your computer is providing uploads of copies of the game you downloaded, using your bandwidth. Imagine if you were on a limited data plan for your main internet, or a plan that was limited during certain hours of the day? That's right, PMB will just keep on using up your bandwidth. Even if you have nothing so immediate, it's still guaranteed to slow your shit down no matter what you're doing.
Of course, the real reason that's heinous is because it doesn't really tell you. Obviously if you knew all that, you'd uninstall it, which by the way is your only means of shutting it off. So: Let's go through this EULA. Imagine, if you will, that you haven't read my dissertation or heard the same information anywhere else. Could you figure out what Pando Media Booster actually does?
Pando Media Booster EULA (link! (http://pandonetworks.com/termsofservice))
First thing's first: Page format. Text is a medium shade of gray on a white background. That's not horrible, but to boot the text is really tiny. The natural result is a dizzying, painful, eye-straining block of text. You could maybe, if you wanted to play devil's advocate, excuse the tiny text as them wanting to fit the EULA into a small space. However, the text is ONLY gray on that page of the site, nowhere else- so, it's conclusive that they are actively trying to make it hard to read. Wait scratch that, upon pasting it into word it looks like the text is black, but it's so fucking small that the font makes it look gray. No seal of approval.
Before the actual EULA begins, there is the following block of text:
All Pando users must agree to an End User License Agreement and Terms of Use before installing Pando software. By installing the software you agree to abide by the terms in this agreement.
Yep. This is one of those EULAs where they don't even force you to look at the EULA- if you're downloading, say, Maple Story for example, you have to click on a link to read the EULA. Apparently you can agree to the terms without reading them. Pretty sure that's an instant-out for the entire text of a contract in the US and EU, should it come before a court. Note to self: Actually look up abusive contract law when not extremely tired.
PANDO NETWORKS, INC. SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT AND TERMS OF USE (PANDO MEDIA BOOSTER)
Because this EULA is blessedly short (only 3 pages in Word) much of the text is in this one section.
Initially it establishes that the "contract" (no longer "license agreement") is between You and Pando Networks.
If you do not agree with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, you may uninstall the software at any time.
At least it doesn't seem to saying that the agreement is permanent, like the other one.
Then it goes on to say that you have a personal, non-transferable right to use the software, which is nearly copy-paste stuff. Certainly would be odd that it's non-transferable. I guess that means in theory, you can't give PMB to someone who hasn't clicked "Install" or "Next" to agree automatically? It also includes documentation on the product they provide you, which is weird since that should definitely be available to someone who hadn't accepted the EULA. Your use is subject to following the terms of the agreement, etc etc...
Pando Networks reserves the right to modify or discontinue your access to any content, or to change the terms of use or any Pando Networks policies at any time with or without prior notice.
Once again of course, they can change the EULA on you without you so much as clicking "I Agree" again. If this actually held up in courts, they could basically change the EULA to say that you owe them a million dollars for using PMB. Which sounds silly but really- would you want to be bound by the terms of a contract that, if it involved an exchange of money, probably wouldn't be legal? But a lot of EULAs have this.
There's one more bit on not exporting the software to places the US won't export it to, and that it's not Pando Networks' fault if you do.
Usage
(a) You hereby grant permission for the Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of your network connection for the limited purposes of facilitating the transfer of digital files and communication to users of the Software. (b) The Software shall be utilized to transfer those files published into Pando Networks' managed and secured network via approved partners.
So, the first part of this is them saying that they'll sap your processor and network. Which is funny, I don't think I've ever seen an EULA that makes you accept that a program could waste your processor cycles- usually they just go ahead and do it, since as far as I'm aware there isn't really a law against it anywhere. For the second clause: Who are "approved partners"? Are they other users? Are you transferring published files TO Pando's servers, or are you transferring files, which were published by Pando, through approved partners? I guess the latter makes the most sense; IE you're just sending files to yahoos.
Software Updates
This just says that they can update their software on your computer freely, like any other EULA. It does mention that they can gather hardware info on your computer, though- I can't imagine what they'd want that for other than knowing how much they can leverage your rig to do their work.
New Releases of the Software
You are not entitled to receive any new releases of the Software, or any updates, upgrades or similar products under the EULA, but Pando Networks may, in its sole discretion, offer any or all of the foregoing to you.
Rather than just leaving it unmentioned, they go out of their way to point out that they don't have to give you updates, if they don't want to.
Pando Networks may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation or notification to you.
"...and we don't have to tell you, either!" Also presumably means they can update without warning you, which I'm sure they do. They certainly run the program at startup without warning you.
It lastly says that you might have to install an entirely new version periodically, and if you don't then you naturally won't have access to their network. With the interesting clause...
Pando Networks shall not be responsible in any way for your inability to access the System or download content, and you shall not be entitled to receive a refund of any fees or any other form of compensation.
I'm quite happy to have PMB stop wasting my bandwidth for free, actually.
Crash Reporting
Man, can you imagine what it might have been like to have a program like this run in your background and crash in the pre-XP days when it would BSOD your whole computer?
At Pando Networks’ discretion a sample of crashes in the PMB software may be reported to an automatic analysis system.
This seems to be the main thing actually related to crashes in this section.
It also says here that the "Copyright, trade secrets and other intellectual property rights" are strictly owned by Pando Networks or the third party whose software you're downloading through PMB.Pando Networks retains all rights not expressly granted in this Agreement.
Which is funny, I don't think that they granted us hardly any, except the right for their program to grace our computers. And of course presumably this is related to copyright but still, when it's that vaguely worded one imagines things like "right to overclock your computer until it catches fire" might be included.
After this there's no more section headers, but it breaks into a warranty (or lack-of-warranty) section. Therein it says that the software is provided as-is, you assume "ALL RISKS", and Pando Networks isn't responsible for any unpleasant qualities in software provided through their platform.
[Pando] DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES... INCLUDIN ... THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
These implied warranties are normal avenues to demand a refund for something that can't be sold (has no merchantability) or doesn't work (has no fitness for a particular purpose which the vendor stated it has) such as rotten milk and a salt shaker with no holes respectively. PANDO NETWORKS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SELL YOU ROTTEN MILK AND A SALT SHAKER WITH NO HOLES. Also, chalk this one up on the "Can they actually waive that?" list.
There's lastly a section on liability which is almost a carbon copy of the one in Maple Story. However, they're about five times as generous as Nexon. In the case that Pando Networks is required to compensate for damages:
...YOU AGREE THAT THE LIMIT OF PANDO NETWORK'S LIABILITY SHALL BE ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS.
Well, I guess it's better than twenty.
And that's all!
Now it's time for me to finally get to bed. For an extra challenge, read Pando's FAQ (http://pandonetworks.com/pando-media-booster-support-faq) and take the "what does it actually do" challenge there too. Mostly, it seems like all I can find are sheepish admissions that they use your bandwidth.
-
haha, it appears I've installed Pando Media Booster in november of last year, so bye bye to that