Post by: piecewise on March 22, 2015, 09:44:15 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Leveling up:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Creating a character:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Other Major Changes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Example Character Sheet
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For those of you respecing characters, do it like this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Any questions, concerns or character respecs should be put here. (Note, any of this might change depending on feedback)
Edit: There was some confusion as to how stating a starting character works.
Ok, if you want to add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to also add -1 to another stat or skill. If you want to add +2 (be it +2 to a single stat or +1 to two different stats) you need to add -3 to other stats or skills (-1 from before, plus -2). If you want to add +3, then it becomes -6 (-1 + -2 + -3) Basically, for each additional bonus point you add, you have to add the next number up of negative points. This means that characters with higher starting stats and skills will also have lower stating stats and skills in other places. Those of you who want to be very focused will thus be very weak in other areas.
Stats/skills can go to -2 only. And there is a +2 cap for new characters.
There is no deadline as of yet for respec-ing. Take your time and ask questions. But those of you restating, please post your "starting character" ie the basic character you're gonna make to build off of, then the end product once you've added all the stats. You should probably make it very clear where all the points go just so we make sure everything is right.
LOOK AT THIS THING
http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/character_creation.html
Use it. it is how things work now. Apparently.
Post by: syvarris on March 22, 2015, 10:03:28 pm
EDIT: TO other people, it might be a decent idea to hold off on redoing your char tonight. We're currently arguing about the system in IRC.
Timeskip gives +5 points, which can be distributed in either/both stats or skills. Hephaestus defense gives a standard levelup. Boarding is the same as the timeskip.
Post by: Wolfkit on March 22, 2015, 10:18:19 pm
Strength: -1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: -1
Willpower: +2
Fate: 0
Intuition: -1
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: -1
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic Weapons: +2
Auxiliary Systems: 0
Medical Tech: 0
General Knowledge: -1
((Ronald is now reimagined as guy who solves all problems via liberal application of doom hands and amps, and screws up fatally in most other situations. This can only end in hilarious TPK))
((Edit: no longer hilariously broken))
Post by: Peradon on March 22, 2015, 10:22:26 pm
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 22, 2015, 10:30:42 pm
Ok, what do I do? I haven't been on any missions, so do I need to do anything?You still have to restat your character for the new system, you just don't have the extra points from missions.
Post by: Peradon on March 22, 2015, 10:33:15 pm
Post by: tryrar on March 22, 2015, 11:47:31 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 22, 2015, 11:56:54 pm
Stats: -1 -2 =-3
Skills: -1-2-3-4 =-10
Post by: Lenglon on March 23, 2015, 12:00:17 am
Post by: Wolfkit on March 23, 2015, 12:03:23 am
what is "Fate"?Dunno, PW isn't saying anything
Post by: syvarris on March 23, 2015, 12:03:39 am
For a cumulative total bonus of +1, you need a cumulative total penalty of -1.
For a cumulative total bonus of +2, you need a cumulative total penalty of -3.
For a cumulative total bonus of +3, you need a cumulative total penalty of -6.
For a cumulative total bonus of +4, you need a cumulative total penalty of -10.
You can't get any higher than that.
Key word in your case is 'cumulative'. You only applied the diminishing returns to the +2, rather than lumping them all together into a +4.
@Leng
Join IRC and ask. PW is answering questions. He said it was heavily buffed. People were guessing that it's a sort of 'last chance' roll to not die.))
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 23, 2015, 12:05:47 am
Post by: Lenglon on March 23, 2015, 12:07:46 am
Can you guys save a transcript of that please? Can't really come on irc for now, so it'd be nice to have.+1
Post by: Nunzillor on March 23, 2015, 12:08:17 am
Spoiler: Base: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level up (1 mission): (click to show/hide)
Post by: NAV on March 23, 2015, 12:09:03 am
-1 to 0 is 5
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 12:10:16 am
Can you guys save a transcript of that please? Can't really come on irc for now, so it'd be nice to have.+1
Sure thing.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 23, 2015, 12:12:57 am
-2 to -1 is 10Thanks
-1 to 0 is 5
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 12:30:42 am
Strength:0
Dex:0
Endurance:+1
Charisma: -1
Mind:0
Fate:0
Intuition:0
Handi:0
Con:+1
Uncon:0
Exotic:-1
Med:0
Auxiliary:0
General Knowledge:0
Right, I think these stats should reflect Johnny himself a bit more.
Edit: added in strength just so i don't need to bother with low level strength requirments.
Editedit:
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 01:02:49 am
So wait, timeskip gives standard, and the boarding gives standard too? I'll need to calculate how many points I have then.
If I'm even still alive.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 23, 2015, 01:07:23 am
@execute: need another -1 for skills.
Post by: Peradon on March 23, 2015, 01:07:41 am
Strength:+1
Dex:0
Endurance:-1
Charisma: -1
Intelligence:+1
Will:0
Fate:0
Intuition:0
Handi:+1
Con:+1
Uncon:0
Exotic:0
Med:-1
Auxiliary:-1
General Knowledge:0
Does this work?
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 23, 2015, 01:09:16 am
Post by: Peradon on March 23, 2015, 01:11:46 am
Peradon, you need a lot more -1 I think. See syv's list.Ok... I edited it.
Post by: renegadelobster on March 23, 2015, 01:19:16 am
Post by: piecewise on March 23, 2015, 01:28:41 am
what is "Fate"?No one shall ever know.
But Lars has a +1 in it, just as default
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 23, 2015, 01:39:46 am
On more serious note, how stat requirements for amps and manips will chance?
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 01:40:55 am
Dangit.
So do all the stats and skills still mean the same things they used to, or do some apply to different things? Not counting Fate, of course.
If someone kills Lars and ritualistically devours his corpse will they get that +1 in Fate?
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 01:45:25 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 01:49:12 am
Post by: Empiricist on March 23, 2015, 02:06:49 am
Wait, does the Assault (wherein Charles gunned down sods using a turret, talked to civvies and hid behind HAWKING) and Defense of Hephaestus (wherein Charles stood still waiting for foes who never showed up) count as one mission or two?
Though my draft currently looks like this:
Code: (WIP) [Select]
Missions: 2 (Ice-9, Assault and Defense of Hephaestus)
Timeskips: 1 (Post-Conquest of Hephaestus [1 Year])
Strength:-1 [-1 initially]
Dexterity:0 [0 initially]
Endurance:0 [0 initially]
Charisma:-1 [-1 initially]
Intelligence:-1 [-1 initially]
Willpower:0 [0 initially]
Fate:+3 [+2 initially, 15 points]
Intuition:+2 [+1 initially, 10 points]
Handiwork:-1 [-1 initially]
Conventional Weapons:+1 [+1 initially]
Unconventional Weapons:-1 [-1 initially]
Exotic weapons:-1 [-1 initially]
Auxiliary Systems:0 [0 initially]
Medical Tech:0 [0 initially]
General Knowledge:0 [0 initially]
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 23, 2015, 02:30:07 am
Post by: Empiricist on March 23, 2015, 02:31:01 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 02:32:47 am
I'm buffing Fate anyway, but still.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 23, 2015, 02:56:24 am
Not sure how useful stats are going to be for Heph personnel in the near future, but the more points Anton has, the better. ^_^
So far I cound the year-long mission, the Heph Defense, and one timeskip until this mission. So, 15 or 20 points. With the last mission over, definitely at least 20.
edit: apparently not. New sheet posted in new post.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 23, 2015, 03:05:55 am
Post by: Unholy_Pariah on March 23, 2015, 04:42:09 am
how do synthbodies and my armored exosuit affect stat levels and conventional skill?
Post by: Comrade P. on March 23, 2015, 04:57:46 am
Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: +2
Charisma: -2
Mind: 0
Fate: 0
Intuition: 0
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: +1
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic weapons: 0
Auxiliary Systems: 0
Medical Tech: 0
General Knowledge: -1
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2015, 05:25:11 am
- How do mindpoints work from here on out?
- What will happen to the +2dex/+1end/+1uncon from my synthflesh body? Do I still get those, only the uncon or none?
- I got a +3 skill points in exo from the timeskip, does that count for anything?
- We still get the token refund from the decomps right?
- What about the stat req. for amps?
- and I remember there being said that the armory was going to get some new stuff along with the new system. Was I dreaming?
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 05:28:05 am
There we go. If I live to assimilate another day, Xan will be a much more competent, focused, and horrific individual who doesn't constantly kill himself because he's so good at his rolls all the time.
Of course this is still pending any significant changes, and what amps will require now, but this is basically what I think I'd put.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 05:30:00 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 23, 2015, 05:38:26 am
Post by: Unholy_Pariah on March 23, 2015, 05:39:50 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 05:41:23 am
Because those have been the two things fucking me over in all actuality.
Wait, are bonuses from char creation applied before or after stat points invested? Aka, if I have a +1 from char creation, does next level take 5 or 10 points?I'd think you apply the points you get from missions after the base character is made and act like the prices increase accordingly, so it'd cost 10 points for the next level in your example.
Oh, I see how I fucked up there. I gotta subtract one more stat bonus in order to get the +3 properly. Hmm...
Edit: there we go - I'll be fucked in strength for a little while but I'm not really focused so much on that department anyhow right now.
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 05:58:28 am
This is why I've minmaxed so heavily as to get a +4 in Will, and that +1 in Fate.
Because those have been the two things fucking me over in all actuality.Wait, are bonuses from char creation applied before or after stat points invested? Aka, if I have a +1 from char creation, does next level take 5 or 10 points?I'd think you apply the points you get from missions after the base character is made and act like the prices increase accordingly, so it'd cost 10 points for the next level in your example.
Oh, I see how I fucked up there. I gotta subtract one more stat bonus in order to get the +3 properly. Hmm...
Edit: there we go - I'll be fucked in strength for a little while but I'm not really focused so much on that department anyhow right now.
There's another mistake, though PW added this in after the original post.
Max bonus for a starting character is +2. You cannot start with +3 in will, so in order to get +4 you must sink a minimum of 35 points into the area.
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 06:09:07 am
...I may have misinterpreted that. Thought it meant new as in 'haven't gone on any missions yet' new.
Hm. Gonna need some consideration here then.
EDIT: There we are, updated it somewhat. That should work better, I think. Two missions to superwill status.
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 06:35:56 am
The penalty for adding 1's is cumulative. (I find the way this is worded in other posts a little confusing :P)
If we think of adding +1's sequentially, each additional +1 costs -1 more to add.
So, the first +1 requires one -1.
The second requires two -1's, regardless of where the second one is.
And the third requires three -1's, and so on. So, in order to do +2 Will, +1 Fate, you need -6.
I'm personally not sold on the necessity of this system over more traditional stat costing, but PW is sleeping and can't discuss it with us right now.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 06:39:38 am
Now we've misunderstood something else that I was originally confused about as well.What? Where does PW say that each 1+ costs one more 1- than the other no matter where it is? I thought it was just 1+=5 points, 2+=10 points, stuff like that.
The penalty for adding 1's is cumulative. (I find the way this is worded in other posts a little confusing :P)
If we think of adding +1's sequentially, each additional +1 costs -1 more to add.
So, the first +1 requires one -1.
The second requires two -1's, regardless of where the second one is.
And the third requires three -1's, and so on. So, in order to do +2 Will, +1 Fate, you need -6.
I'm personally not sold on the necessity of this system over more traditional stat costing, but PW is sleeping and can't discuss it with us right now.
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 06:41:17 am
Now we've misunderstood something else that I was originally confused about as well.What? Where does PW say that each 1+ costs one more 1- than the other no matter where it is? I thought it was just 1+=5 points, 2+=10 points, stuff like that.
The penalty for adding 1's is cumulative. (I find the way this is worded in other posts a little confusing :P)
If we think of adding +1's sequentially, each additional +1 costs -1 more to add.
So, the first +1 requires one -1.
The second requires two -1's, regardless of where the second one is.
And the third requires three -1's, and so on. So, in order to do +2 Will, +1 Fate, you need -6.
I'm personally not sold on the necessity of this system over more traditional stat costing, but PW is sleeping and can't discuss it with us right now.
That's for adding 'mission experience'. I'm talking about setting up the base character.
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 06:42:39 am
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 06:44:30 am
Hmm. I can easily fix it if that's the case, I just wanted to get that +1 in Fate because I'm unfortunately prone to getting fucked over by fate. I'll just note that it isn't finished and go to sleep I guess.
Seems fair :P
I don't think any of this is finished until it goes on the wiki, and we haven't been committing these edits there yet (since the system is still 'under review', so to speak)
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 06:46:17 am
That's for adding 'mission experience'. I'm talking about setting up the base character.Okay, lemme just pull up the relevant part here which I think is where you might be getting this from:
Quote
Here's how this works, everyone starts with a zero in all stats and skills. You can choose to stay like that if you want, or you can change the character by adding bonuses and negatives. To add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to take a -1 in another stat or skill. To add an additional +1, you need to take two -1's from stats or skills. You can raise the same skill or stat multiple times, but the negatives increase this way each time. In other words, for me to raise, say, con to +3, I need to distribute -6 across the other skills. In other words, if you're gonna be really good at 1 thing, you're gonna be really shit at basically everything else. By the way, you have to keep skills and stats separate in this, ie you can't do +1 Con and -1 Dex.Now, if you'll see the bolded part, which I assume is where you got that idea (And it is a touch weirdly worded, certainly) BUT, he gives a comparison of Con only, and mentions that (Put in italics) he says that If you wanna be really good at One thing, you need to be crap at everything else.
Post by: Devastator on March 23, 2015, 06:49:03 am
Just do that, buy an amp, have end-game character out of the escape pod.
Maybe it should increase a bit faster, say 10/15/20 or 10/20/30 instead of 5/10/15, and cap starting chars at +1 per stat.
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 06:53:52 am
Quote
cap starting chars at +1 per stat.but muh minmaxing
also PW put a limit of +2 on base characters
Post by: Devastator on March 23, 2015, 06:57:36 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 06:57:47 am
Ohhh, I see why PW made it so that a -2 need 10 points to get out of, that means if you do power game, you need 15 points to not be an active hazard at doing anything else than what you spend your points in, in other words, you need to survive three missions being a glass cannon, retarded glacier, or anything else.
I mean, think about a normal ER mission, if I put 3+ into dex and 2 into strength, that would leave me a retarded idiot, with negative willpower, no 'fate', horrible endurance and no charisma, taking that idea and putting it into skills would be just as bad, as arriving and buying a laser rifle would be useless against any actually armoured enemies, having exotic abilities... Well, pumping points into two of the major combat skills might help, but you literally wouldn't be able to do anything else.
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 07:02:10 am
STEP 1: CREATE A BASE CHARACTER
Rules for a Base Character
- Start with +0 (novice) in everything
- Configure your Stats under the following rules
- You may increase a stat by 1, at the cost of decreasing a stat by 1.
- Each additional increase to any stat costs 1 additional point.
- You cannot increase a stat above +2
- You cannot decrease a stat below -2
- For example, to increase Str by 1 and Dex by 1, you must decrease other stats by 3. To increase each by 2, you must decrease others by 10
- Generically, to purchase the ith increase, you must decrease other stats by i.
- Repeat for Skills
STEP 2: ADD MISSION EXPERIENCE
- You get 5 stat points and 5 skill points for each completed mission.
- The Space Battle Mission and the TimeSkip are currently worth 5 points each, placed anywhere you like.
- Points are spent to upgrade stats and skills at the following costs
- -2 --> -1 :: 10 Points
- -1 --> 0 :: 5 Points
- 0 --> 1 :: 5 Points
- 1 --> 2 :: 10 Points
- 2 --> 3 :: 15 Points
- 3 --> 4 :: 20 Points
- Generically, n-1 --> n :: 5*n points for levels above 0.
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 07:05:11 am
...
Are there +levels beyond 4? If so, does the points cost increase at the same rate?
Hmm. I wonder how high of an Exotic skill modifier the AM could feasibly get. Lemme see here...
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 07:06:59 am
That's for adding 'mission experience'. I'm talking about setting up the base character.Okay, lemme just pull up the relevant part here which I think is where you might be getting this from:QuoteHere's how this works, everyone starts with a zero in all stats and skills. You can choose to stay like that if you want, or you can change the character by adding bonuses and negatives. To add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to take a -1 in another stat or skill. To add an additional +1, you need to take two -1's from stats or skills. You can raise the same skill or stat multiple times, but the negatives increase this way each time. In other words, for me to raise, say, con to +3, I need to distribute -6 across the other skills. In other words, if you're gonna be really good at 1 thing, you're gonna be really shit at basically everything else. By the way, you have to keep skills and stats separate in this, ie you can't do +1 Con and -1 Dex.Now, if you'll see the bolded part, which I assume is where you got that idea (And it is a touch weirdly worded, certainly) BUT, he gives a comparison of Con only, and mentions that (Put in italics) he says that If you wanna be really good at One thing, you need to be crap at everything else.
Yeah, that example is part of the confusion. See later on in his edit, here
Ok, if you want to add +1 to a stat or skill, you need to also add -1 to another stat or skill. If you want to add +2 (be it +2 to a single stat or +1 to two different stats) you need to add -3 to other stats or skills (-1 from before, plus -2). If you want to add +3, then it becomes -6 (-1 + -2 + -3) Basically, for each additional bonus point you add, you have to add the next number up of negative points. This means that characters with higher starting stats and skills will also have lower stating stats and skills in other places. Those of you who want to be very focused will thus be very weak in other areas.
Bold for emphasis. PW just chose an example (+3 in one stat) that *doesn't* illustrate this property in his first iteration
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 07:08:50 am
Post by: Devastator on March 23, 2015, 07:11:04 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 07:12:20 am
The AM could feasibly have a +7 in amp usage, employing maximum minmaxing. She'd have 10 skill points left over.Well...
Hold on a sec...
Ah, here we go, when one of the players fought fake AM in the simulation area, she was wearing a Kinetic Shunt, right? What bonuses was she getting there?
To be honest, it is more that minuses aren't actually to any detriment. You have to specifically outfit yourself to make any rolls relevant, so it's not an additional limitation to suck at things you can't, or never will do anyway.Apart from stuff like endurance, I guess, Willpower, probably, but you would probably be boosting Will up if you could cheese it like that, wouldn't you? 'Cuz amps with the new system really are the best, unless something like fate also effects it.
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 07:14:12 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 07:15:26 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 07:17:40 am
Post by: Devastator on March 23, 2015, 07:21:54 am
Yeah, no end should be doable without much issue.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 23, 2015, 07:22:31 am
Oh, I'm just assuming she dumped all the points she got over her 27 missions straight into amp usage - she could theoretically have done stuff like that, but it's likely she didn't and her power is linked to some out of context thing, hence the quicksilver reference from PW the one time.Mmmm, that's what I'm thinking.
Wait, you know how it's pointed out amps run on souls? And that bag that releases voices, yet the AM couldn't detect anything invasive in the guy's brain? I wonder if 'Quicksilver' is kinda like a glue for ghosts, it sticks to 'em, so if the AM could have been pumped full of it, she might be...
Wait, remember that riddle? The one about 12 things now there is one? What if those could be related to souls chained to the AM, so she's losing them.
I dunno I'm tired leave me alone.
Post by: Devastator on March 23, 2015, 07:25:46 am
Anyway, I suppose it could work out if the dump stats mattered, like you failing to run away with your 0 dex, or you failing to operate an elevator with your 0 int..
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 23, 2015, 07:46:42 am
@Kriellya: Not assault mission. Correct that to space battle. Also, timeskip only grants points to those that got points in the first place. Also Anomalous Planetoid mission grants 2 levelups since it counts as 2 missions
This is the log I got with some parts removed, not sure if anything important was said after I left.
Spoiler: Part 1 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 23, 2015, 07:47:16 am
Spoiler: Part 2 (click to show/hide)
The important thing to note here is that Sy is required to wear a leather mask. No, I do not know how it works with a robot body.
More seriously, exoskeletons and synthflesh and things like that no longer grant bonuses to rolls. They just allow you to do things, make you stronger. So no matter how high your str stat is, you cannot lift a very heavy weapon without an exoskeleton and no matter how strong of an exoskeleton you have, you can still mess up throwing a rock and kill yourself if you have a -2 to strength or dex.
Post by: Knight Otu on March 23, 2015, 08:54:09 am
Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Base
Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: 0
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +1
Fate:0
Intuition: 0
Handiwork: -2
Conventional Weapons: +0
Unconventional Weapons: -1
Exotic weapons: +2
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge: -1
M6 Samsonite Abyss 5/5
M9A Ghostship 5/5
M11 Heph Assault 5/5
Time Skip
M12 Heph Defense 5/5
M18 Eater of Cold 5/5
25/25 +5
Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Respec WIP
Strength: 0
Dexterity: -1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: +1[5]
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: +2 [10 +10/15]
Fate: +1 [5]
Intuition: 0
Handiwork: -2
Conventional Weapons: +1 [5]
Unconventional Weapons: -1
Exotic weapons: +3 [15]
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge: -1
Remaining: 0 stats, 5 skill, 0 wild?
Well, now I have 5 skill points I'm not sure how to use. I probably also should consider moving the GK -1 to uncon instead.
Post by: Tavik Toth on March 23, 2015, 09:05:30 am
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 09:51:21 am
Spoiler: Base Character (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Character after missions (click to show/hide)
Added base character, since I didn't see the edit to the OP asking for them until now.
Post by: Toaster on March 23, 2015, 10:00:11 am
But Lars has a +1 in it, just as default
And I was going to put points in it to represent his pious connections! I cite this for his ability to survive six missions without losing a limb.
Let's see...
Spoiler: Brother Lars, at creation - Final (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Point gains (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Brother Lars, current - Final (click to show/hide)
PW approved changing to the mindread amp from the mind control amp at full refund; adjusted inventory appropriately.
I think that covers it. Lars is a great shot and well blessed by the gods.
In final, there was no way I was getting to +2 exo without sacrificing some of the intent of the character, so that's where we are now. Sad about just +1 charisma, but something had to give. I think the +3 fate better reflects the vision and how the character has played out.
Post by: NAV on March 23, 2015, 10:12:46 am
Spoiler: Starting (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Levelups (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Current (click to show/hide)
Post by: Toaster on March 23, 2015, 10:15:01 am
Post by: NAV on March 23, 2015, 10:18:02 am
Wait, how does the Heph Defense count? Half if you did one part, whole if you did both parts? I might be misunderstanding that.I think the defence counts as a full levelup, and the boarding gives 5 points to put anywhere.
Post by: tryrar on March 23, 2015, 10:22:36 am
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2015, 10:26:29 am
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 10:28:31 am
You also can't drop a stat lower than -2.
@Pancaek: That looks right.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 23, 2015, 10:56:51 am
Revising sheet:
With that in mind:
Code: [Select]
[Anton Chernozorov]
STR: 0
DEX: 0 [5]
END: 0
WIL: 0 [5]
INT: +2 (10)[10]
CHA: 0 [5]
FATE: 0
Intuit: +1 [5]
Handi: +2
Conv: 0
Uncon: 0
Exotic: -2
Aux: +2 [10]
Med: -1
General: +1 [5]
Points towards next level in (parentheses), total allocated points in [square brackets].
Post by: Harry Baldman on March 23, 2015, 11:37:51 am
Spoiler: Virrsai Dawa Maal Leeyes, or Chief (click to show/hide)
Should be correct, right?
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2015, 11:47:40 am
Spoiler: Total points (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: sheet start (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: final sheet (click to show/hide)
Post by: Persus13 on March 23, 2015, 11:56:52 am
Spoiler: Redone stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on March 23, 2015, 11:58:33 am
Post by: syvarris on March 23, 2015, 12:11:22 pm
Note that 'stats' and 'skills' are different, and have no relation to each other at all.
Charsheets which are flawed:
Tek: Has a total of +5 skills. Would need -15 skills to actually get that (which is impossible) but only has -7.
Psmith Exerton: Has +2 stats, which only costs -3, but you have -4. Same with the skills.
Charles: Not wrong, but poorly done. Skills start with two +1s, and then levelups upgrade one of those to a +2. It would be better to start with that +2, then use skills to upgrade the other to +1, and have 5 points to spare. Also, you have no points in Charisma, which now covers speech.
Xan: Stats have a +3, but only -4; cost is -6. Also, aren't your stats randomly decided now?
Gorat: Same issue as Charles. Not wrong, but it would be more efficient to start Exo at +2, and aux at +0, then upgrade aux to +1 using levelup points, with another five left over.
Dubley: Same levelup mistakes as Charles and Gorat. Not wrong, but not well done.
Everyone else is fine.
Quote from: Devastator
Well, defensive stats aren't like to be relevant, anyway, as removing the amp-overshoots that caused what, 80% of all deaths.. And with all temp-dead chars surviving.. I think there's been maybe two or three chars dying from non-amp instakills in the history of the game..
Yeah, no end should be doable without much issue.
Nah, there's been Mason, Floki, Michael, Grate, Felix, May, Jhoseph, Cecil, and a different Michael. And that's not counting the instakills which were obviously avoidable. Or the kills which weren't insta, which end will still help with avoiding.
Also, end prevents you from taking more minor injuries, like breaking your leg. Sure, you're not permadead if that happens, but you are nearly useless dead weight.
@Sean Mirrsen & Empiricist
I was gonna suggest that we Heph personnel hold off on restatting for now. We really do want to have complementary skillsets, and we definitely have time to discuss it and see what we can and should do. If we all stat seperately, we'll probably end up with a lot of the same skills.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 23, 2015, 12:12:30 pm
Spoiler: Start (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Missions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Leveled (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on March 23, 2015, 12:16:07 pm
Um, PW, I want to place my stats as an RP reflection instead of min/maxing, how high or low would you think Lyra's Fate is?what is "Fate"?No one shall ever know.
But Lars has a +1 in it, just as default
She doesn't buy into the HMRC pantheon, if it matters.
Post by: NAV on March 23, 2015, 12:20:11 pm
Dubley: Same levelup mistakes as Charles and Gorat. Not wrong, but not well done.Thanks Syvarrie! I changed the sheet a bit.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 23, 2015, 12:40:37 pm
EDIT: Solved, I think. Now to test it.
Spoiler: Contains math (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dutrius on March 23, 2015, 01:04:23 pm
Spoiler: Kai Branden (Base) (click to show/hide)
One mission: (M18) (25 points for skills and stats?)
Spoiler: Kai Branden (re-specced) (click to show/hide)
Is this correct? Is it 5 points or 25? PW's opening post is a little ambiguous.
Post by: Comrade P. on March 23, 2015, 01:05:23 pm
Post by: Dutrius on March 23, 2015, 01:08:55 pm
Post by: Kriellya on March 23, 2015, 01:16:53 pm
@Kriellya: Not assault mission. Correct that to space battle. Also, timeskip only grants points to those that got points in the first place. Also Anomalous Planetoid mission grants 2 levelups since it counts as 2 missions
I would like some clarity on that from PW when he gets up. He didn't want to think about the timeskip in IRC and I can't figure out what he finally okay'd.
Hey PW, how is the time skip working? I think you said just 5 points for everyone?
See logs in Paris's post:
[2015-03-23 06:10:26] <Piecewise> Ok so
[2015-03-23 06:10:31] <Piecewise> Fuck the time skip stuff
[2015-03-23 06:10:39] <Piecewise> too random, too hectic, too varying
[2015-03-23 06:12:36] <syvarris> Does that mean no levelup for timeskip, or just going with the nonrandom, nonhectic "+5 to either stats or skills"?
[2015-03-23 06:13:35] <Piecewise> It's just gonna be "You get 5 points. You can put them in skills or stats or some combo. Thats it"
[2015-03-23 06:14:04] <renegade> That works
[2015-03-23 06:14:21] <Caellath> Same as boarding, then.
[2015-03-23 06:15:37] <Nikitian> Non-levelup features and bonuses of time-skip still remain as-is, I hope? (I'd really hate to lose fleshknitter to retcon)
[2015-03-23 06:17:04] <Piecewise> Nah, thats fine. Just numbers. I won't retcon anything else if I can help it
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 23, 2015, 01:18:14 pm
Spoiler: Basic Stats (click to show/hide)
Levelup: 1 mission
5pts in Will (to 0)
5pts in Intuition (to +1)
Spoiler: Final Stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Caellath on March 23, 2015, 01:22:32 pm
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 01:34:27 pm
Spoiler: Basic Stats (click to show/hide)
Levelup: 1 mission
5pts in Endurance (to 0)
5pts in Intuition (to +1)Spoiler: Final Stats (click to show/hide)
For the original stats, points are cumulative. Two +1s have to be cancelled out the same as a +2, which requires three -1s, not two. So you're one point over in stats and skills.
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 23, 2015, 01:43:04 pm
Better now?Spoiler: Basic Stats (click to show/hide)
Levelup: 1 mission
5pts in Endurance (to 0)
5pts in Intuition (to +1)Spoiler: Final Stats (click to show/hide)
For the original stats, points are cumulative. Two +1s have to be cancelled out the same as a +2, which requires three -1s, not two. So you're one point over in stats and skills.
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 01:44:36 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on March 23, 2015, 02:18:47 pm
Spoiler: Basic stats (click to show/hide)
Level up:
Mission 12
Mission 13
Mission 16
+10 wildcard from timeskip and ship boarding
Spoiler: Final stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Knight Otu on March 23, 2015, 02:25:25 pm
Gorat: Same issue as Charles. Not wrong, but it would be more efficient to start Exo at +2, and aux at +0, then upgrade aux to +1 using levelup points, with another five left over.Well, and now I have 5 skill points left over. :P For Intuition, maybe, or getting a headstart on Exo +4, and I still have to decide on moving the -1 from General Knowledge to Uncon...
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 23, 2015, 02:34:06 pm
Spoiler: Basic stats (click to show/hide)
Level up:
Mission 12
Mission 13
Mission 16
+10 wildcard from timeskip and ship boardingSpoiler: Final stats (click to show/hide)
If I did math correctly you still have 5 unspent points in skills.
Post by: HavingPhun on March 23, 2015, 02:35:33 pm
Stats/skills can go to -2 only. And there is a +2 cap for new characters.Does this apply to just skills? If not, then the highest willpower that I can have as a new character is 2 at first. Yet the Microwave Amp requires a minimum of 3 willpower. So did you just mean that skills have the +2 limit, not stats?
Post by: Knight Otu on March 23, 2015, 02:39:05 pm
The stat requirements haven't been changed over to the new system yet, I'm pretty sure. The microwave amp probably will just require a +1 in willpower.Stats/skills can go to -2 only. And there is a +2 cap for new characters.Does this apply to just skills? If not, then the highest willpower that I can have as a new character is 2 at first. Yet the Microwave Amp requires a minimum of 3 willpower. So did you just mean that skills have the +2 limit, not stats?
Post by: HavingPhun on March 23, 2015, 02:40:47 pm
Okay, I guess that works out then.The stat requirements haven't been changed over to the new system yet, I'm pretty sure. The microwave amp probably will just require a +1 in willpower.Stats/skills can go to -2 only. And there is a +2 cap for new characters.Does this apply to just skills? If not, then the highest willpower that I can have as a new character is 2 at first. Yet the Microwave Amp requires a minimum of 3 willpower. So did you just mean that skills have the +2 limit, not stats?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 23, 2015, 02:53:51 pm
Okay, I guess that works out then.The stat requirements haven't been changed over to the new system yet, I'm pretty sure. The microwave amp probably will just require a +1 in willpower.Stats/skills can go to -2 only. And there is a +2 cap for new characters.Does this apply to just skills? If not, then the highest willpower that I can have as a new character is 2 at first. Yet the Microwave Amp requires a minimum of 3 willpower. So did you just mean that skills have the +2 limit, not stats?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Math: +3 bonus equals -6 penalty in stats. And +4 in skills is -10 penalty.
Post by: renegadelobster on March 23, 2015, 02:54:20 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 03:07:50 pm
Still might do something else though. General knowledge seems a good thing to have a +1 in...
Quote from: syv
Also, aren't your stats randomly decided now?If PW wills it, but I've been salivating over this respec since before STAN. I really want to make Xan the archetype I always envisioned him as, rather than the unwieldy exploding fucker the dice made him.
Post by: HavingPhun on March 23, 2015, 03:09:14 pm
Edit: I fixed it, how is it now?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 23, 2015, 03:37:18 pm
syvarris made this fancy table:
((Ya did. Bonuses in each category go like this:
For a cumulative total bonus of +1, you need a cumulative total penalty of -1.
For a cumulative total bonus of +2, you need a cumulative total penalty of -3.
For a cumulative total bonus of +3, you need a cumulative total penalty of -6.
For a cumulative total bonus of +4, you need a cumulative total penalty of -10.
You can't get any higher than that.
Key word in your case is 'cumulative'. You only applied the diminishing returns to the +2, rather than lumping them all together into a +4.
@Leng
Join IRC and ask. PW is answering questions. He said it was heavily buffed. People were guessing that it's a sort of 'last chance' roll to not die.))
Post by: renegadelobster on March 23, 2015, 04:36:05 pm
Post by: HavingPhun on March 23, 2015, 05:13:44 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 23, 2015, 05:57:00 pm
0.
No minmax for Eddie!
Post by: Kedly on March 23, 2015, 06:11:33 pm
Spoiler: Original stats (click to show/hide)
Survived 2 missions (Stan and eater of cold)
Spoiler: Current Stats (click to show/hide)
How's this?
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 06:18:11 pm
New character stats:Syvarris and I seethe silently at your contentment to not fail hilariously at basic tasks while being able to shoot the dick off a mosquito.
0.
No minmax for Eddie!
Post by: Hapah on March 23, 2015, 06:23:05 pm
Xantalos: Putting the MIN in MINMAX.New character stats:Syvarris and I seethe silently at your contentment to not fail hilariously at basic tasks while being able to shoot the dick off a mosquito.
0.
No minmax for Eddie!
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 06:33:10 pm
This is going in my sigbox!Syvarris and I seethe silently at your contentment to not fail hilariously at basic tasks while being able to shoot the dick off a mosquito.Xantalos: Putting the MIN in MINMAX.
Post by: kj1225 on March 23, 2015, 06:54:33 pm
Spoiler: Kyle 2.0, now with more less brain powers. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 06:58:34 pm
Post by: kj1225 on March 23, 2015, 07:01:57 pm
Post by: syvarris on March 23, 2015, 07:02:23 pm
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 07:03:20 pm
Bah, ninjas.
Post by: kj1225 on March 23, 2015, 07:07:55 pm
Post by: Yoink on March 23, 2015, 07:46:27 pm
Edit: And with the level up points, say I completed 2 missions and have 10 points.
Is that 10 points to be distributed between stats and skills, or do I have 10 points for each?
Post by: Toaster on March 23, 2015, 07:56:16 pm
So, when making a new sheet, do we count the initial '+1s' from chargen as five points? And add them to the total?
No. Professions are gone. Everyone starts at 0 and can up/down accordingly.
Post by: syvarris on March 23, 2015, 08:22:48 pm
Post by: Nunzillor on March 23, 2015, 08:24:22 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 08:28:39 pm
Means Tek is literally a space hillbilly who don't know shit, but it works.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 23, 2015, 08:29:25 pm
Post by: Elektra on March 23, 2015, 08:30:56 pm
Name: Elektra De Vrya
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Appearance: Asian, Medium/skinny build, Brown Skin, Dark Brown Eyes and Hair
Personal information: Adventurous and Thrill seeking
Reason assigned to HMRC: Head of an inter-stellar drug cartel
Stats:
Strength: 1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: 0
Fate: 0
Skills:
Intuition:0
Handiwork: -1
Conventional Weapons: 1
Unconventional Weapons:0
Exotic weapons:-1
Auxiliary Systems:0
Medical Tech: 1
General Knowledge: -1
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 23, 2015, 08:31:19 pm
http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Template:NStats
http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Template:NSkills
You can see an example of them here: http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Einsteinian_Roulette_Wiki:Sandbox
Red is negative level, green is positive level, yellow is level 0.
If you have an idea about how it would look better, please say so.
The variable names are P<name> for points and I<name> for initial level
So if you want to put 10 points in Conventional and have a -2 in conventional, the the variables should be PCon=10 and ICon=-2
I do not have the time to write a full tutorial right now. Those of you who have worked with the wiki before should be able to figure it out. Those of you who can't figure it out need not worry as someone else will probably edit your page for you.
The template also supports negative points, in case someone experiences stat loss due to death or brain damage.
The template does not check to ensure that the numbers you enter are correct. That is your responsibility.
If you have any questions/problems or if you encounter any bugs, please say so so that I can help.
Post by: Yoink on March 23, 2015, 08:49:54 pm
Spoiler: Jobasio's respec (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 08:51:45 pm
What was the base character sheet you built off of?
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 08:53:13 pm
Can I join?
Name: Elektra De Vrya
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Appearance: Asian, Medium/skinny build, Brown Skin, Dark Brown Eyes and Hair
Personal information: Adventurous and Thrill seeking
Reason assigned to HMRC: Head of an inter-stellar drug cartel
Stats:
Strength: 1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: 0
Willpower: 0
Fate: 0
Skills:
Intuition:0
Handiwork:0
Conventional Weapons: 1
Unconventional Weapons:0
Exotic weapons:-1
Auxiliary Systems:0
Medical Tech: 1
General Knowledge: -1
Need to take another -1 in skills. Two +1s have to be balanced out the same as a single +2.
Did I do this right? I went with only having level-ups from two missions, since I don't believe I actually received one from my first mission due to, well, dying in an undignified and unnecessary fashion. :PSpoiler: Jobasio's respec (click to show/hide)
Attribute levels cost more the higher you go. A +1 from mission points costs 5 points, a +2 costs 10, etc.
Post by: Yoink on March 23, 2015, 08:57:10 pm
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 08:58:24 pm
Post by: Yoink on March 23, 2015, 09:01:05 pm
Post by: syvarris on March 23, 2015, 09:23:28 pm
And seriously, you should count the third levelup. Saint was reduced to nothing more than a brain on both missions he participated in, before he ever did anything helpful in either, and still leveled for both. Other people have had similar things happen. You're just penalizing yourself for no particular reason. Even Jim leveled up on his first mission, and that was when PW still gave penalties for dying.
Post by: swordsmith04 on March 23, 2015, 09:28:48 pm
Partially ninja'd by syvarris, but still somewhat relevant.
Post by: kisame12794 on March 24, 2015, 12:18:20 am
Spoiler: Base (click to show/hide)
Participated in Five missions (25 points of Stat/skill), and was there for the timeskip and boarding (+10 to either stat or skill).
Spoiler: Lvl'd (click to show/hide)
Hopefully that is correct.
Edit:
Clarifying missions attended, because some are apparently worth more? Maybe?
9B, Yearlong Anomalous Planetoid
11 Heph Assault
Timeskip
12 Heph Defence
Boarding Action
14 Cultist Shakedown
18 Eater Of Cold
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 12:27:39 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 24, 2015, 12:41:30 am
Now that I think about it, it really is a net loss if I pick up two 1+ on skills, isn't it?
I'll go ahead and change that.
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 12:46:58 am
Including other factors, like my ... condition ... the dynamic changes.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 24, 2015, 12:55:37 am
Post by: Beirus on March 24, 2015, 01:43:02 am
Jason Caldwell
Spoiler: Base (click to show/hide)
Bracketed numbers are total points added to each.
Spoiler: Respec (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kriellya on March 24, 2015, 03:11:19 am
Hm... Hey PW, think there is a balance issue if new players also get 5 stat and 5 skill points to start, after redistributing bonuses?
5 points allows a new character to get a +1 in something, or negate a -1, and does *not* allow them to reach any other thresholds. There is no way to use these points to get a +2 or +3, at least until you have a mission under his belt.
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 03:33:21 am
Post by: Kriellya on March 24, 2015, 03:51:15 am
Would this then apply to only people without a mission or people with as well?
No, this is intended as part of the 'Base Character'. So for everyone who is already working on theirs, it would be an extra 5 stat & skill points.
Though an argument could be made for it only being for new characters... we'll see what PW thinks
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 04:01:03 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 24, 2015, 04:06:15 am
Spoiler: Relevant snippet of yesterday discussion (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 04:09:50 am
Post by: Empiricist on March 24, 2015, 04:47:45 am
Charles: Not wrong, but poorly done. Skills start with two +1s, and then levelups upgrade one of those to a +2. It would be better to start with that +2, then use skills to upgrade the other to +1, and have 5 points to spare. Also, you have no points in Charisma, which now covers speech.WHAT? Charisma now covers itself and Speech? In that case, time to request a whole load of charisma battlestims! :D
Code: (Charles Leroux) [Select]
Missions: 2 (Ice-9, Assault and Defense of Hephaestus)
Timeskips: 1 (Post-Conquest of Hephaestus [1 Year])
Strength:-1 [-1 initially]
Dexterity:0 [0 initially]
Endurance:0 [0 initially]
Charisma:+3 [+2 initially, 15 points]
Intelligence:-2 [-2 initially]
Willpower:0 [0 initially]
Fate:0 [0 initially]
Intuition:+2 [+2 initially]
Handiwork:-1 [-1 initially]
Conventional Weapons:+1 [0 initially, 10 points]
Unconventional Weapons:-1 [-1 initially]
Exotic weapons:-1 [-1 initially]
Auxiliary Systems:0 [0 initially]
Medical Tech:0 [0 initially]
General Knowledge:0 [0 initially]
Post by: Nikitian on March 24, 2015, 04:57:53 am
Post by: Kriellya on March 24, 2015, 06:17:59 am
@Piecewise Alternative proposition: Another free +1/-1 before the gradual penalty increase kicks in. (Probably not for increasing +1 over to +2, but only if a second skill gets bonus.)Spoiler: Relevant snippet of yesterday discussion (click to show/hide)
This proposal works for me as well
Post by: kj1225 on March 24, 2015, 07:54:26 am
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2015, 07:56:01 am
Wait, so two plus ones are the equivalent of one +2? That dosen't make much sense at all. And it doean't seem like it's correct at all according to the rules.
Two plus ones are equal to +1 -> +2, but 0 -> +2 is three +1s.
Post by: kj1225 on March 24, 2015, 07:58:37 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 24, 2015, 07:59:08 am
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2015, 08:02:56 am
Could you try explaining that a bit better? Because that makes zero sense to me right now. Are you saying the two plus ones do use three minus ones or are you saying that they don't and only use two?
Ehhh, are we talking about the point buy or the character generation system (or even the proposed change)? I am totally confused now.
I'm going to assume for a second we're talking about point buy, because chargen is like that except with an extra stipulation.
Going up from 0 to +1 costs five points. Going from one level to the next costs five points more than the previous level. So to get to level...
0 to 1: 5 points
1 to 2: 10 points
2 to 3: 15 points
3 to 4: 20 points
Going straight from 0 to level 2 or higher means you have to pay the costs of every level, so it's cumulative. So the TOTAL cost of going up from 0...
0 to 1: 5 points
0 to 2: 15 points (5+10)
0 to 3: 30 points (5+10+15)
0 to 4: 50 points (5+10+15+20)
Clearer?
EDIT: Oh yeah. Chargen works the same way, but every shift (since you have to take a -1 for each +1 you take) beyond the first costs one additional -1. So if you want...
1 +1: 1 -1
2 +1: 3 -1
3 +1: 6 -1
4 +1: 10 -1
And at chargen, nothing can go beyond -2 or +2.
Post by: Knight Otu on March 24, 2015, 08:21:26 am
Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Missions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Respec (click to show/hide)
Post by: kj1225 on March 24, 2015, 08:34:09 am
I've decided I hate this new system.
Post by: Pancaek on March 24, 2015, 08:37:30 am
Ah.how so?
I've decided I hate this new system.
Post by: kj1225 on March 24, 2015, 08:40:46 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 24, 2015, 08:42:52 am
Post by: kj1225 on March 24, 2015, 08:44:26 am
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2015, 08:47:11 am
That's the thing, there's just no real point to make a character with anything more than a single plus one or else you're neutering yourself in a bunch of other stuff.
Which is why I suggested that players be granted one more shift before the penalty started kicking in. That said, I understand why PW did it; to avoid people trying to minmax lots of -2s into skills they'll never use for bonuses to skills they will use a lot.
Post by: kj1225 on March 24, 2015, 08:50:03 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 24, 2015, 09:06:31 am
That's why, as Toaster said, it was proposed to add a 'free' +1/-1 on a separate skill option, since it allows for two +1s/ two -1s just as the original system had it with Mercenary profession.
For the record, in that case the chargen progression would go this way:
Code: [Select]
1 +1: 1 -1 ( 5 points: 5 points)
2 +1: 2 -1 if on separate stats (10 points:10 points)
2 +1: 3 -1 if on the same stat (15 points:15 points)
3 +1: 4 -1 ( 4=1+1+2) (the inefficiency of over-specialization starts to kick in)
4 +1: 7 -1 ( 7=1+1+2+3)
5 +1: 11 -1 (11=1+1+2+3+4)
Post by: Hapah on March 24, 2015, 11:27:10 am
That's the thing, there's just no real point to make a character with anything more than a single plus one or else you're neutering yourself in a bunch of other stuff.-snip-That said, I understand why PW did it; to avoid people trying to minmax lots of -2s into skills they'll never use for bonuses to skills they will use a lot.
But they're just going to do that anyways won't they? They're just going to take a bit longer.
I know little more than you guys do, but I imagine Toaster has the right of it. There's nothing stopping you from trying to just max your character, but minmaxing (which is a little different) will be hard. I guess the question boils down to: how specialized should a newbie fresh out of the box be?
Post by: syvarris on March 24, 2015, 12:37:47 pm
Your initial distriburions are fine, but you did the skill levelup slightly inefficiently. If you started with Exo at +2, and general knowledge at +0, it would only take five point to upgrade GK, and you'd have five point more than you currently do.
@Kri (more starting points)
I agree with this. The current system essentially replaces the old profession system, but doesn't have any beginning stat points like the old system. That means that you're forced to minmax yourself in some areas, or be equally incompetent in everything- which is worse, because you'll always be overshadowed by someone with a better stat bonus than you. Our teams are large enough that there'll probably always be someone skilled in a given task, so if you try to do anything you're a hazard.
@Nikitian (One more free +1/-1)
As much as it pains me to say so, this is abusable. It allows a +2, at the cost of two -1s, which are cheaper to remove than the +2 is to get. Therefore, it would be strictly inefficient for anyone to not take two penalties, which I don't think is PW's goal. Kri's idea is better, because it doesn't encourage minmaxing.
Quote from: Nikitian
Actually, there is no reason to go beyond a single +2, since it's 15 points effectively, and three -1s spread around different skills sum up to the same 15 points. But even two +1s are inefficient then.
That's why, as Toaster said, it was proposed to add a 'free' +1/-1 on a separate skill option, since it allows for two +1s/ two -1s just as the original system had it with Mercenary profession.
There is a reason to go beyond a single +2, and it's based on being in a team. See, if you don't plan on ever using med, you can pretty safely put -2 in it, and you'll almost always be around a medic (who'll likely also carry the supplies needed to use the skill). If you use exo weapons, you will probably never use uncon since they're so close in purpose and they require different stats. That's another -2. Finally, handiwork can be safely penalized if you don't have a great interest in tinker (and even if you do, you can pay someone with good handi). That's another -2, for a total of -6.
Yes, every one of those -2s can kill you if you get in the wrong situation. However, you can deliberately avoid those situations, while trying to take the ones that require your skills, meaning that overall 95% of the time you're being saved by your high skills, and only want to use the penalized skills 5% of the time.
I find it harder to justify -10 skills total, because it hamstrings you in so many areas, but it can make sense for the same reasons. Just make sure you never ever leave the group if you do that.
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 12:44:40 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2015, 12:45:42 pm
@Nikitian (One more free +1/-1)
As much as it pains me to say so, this is abusable. It allows a +2, at the cost of two -1s, which are cheaper to remove than the +2 is to get. Therefore, it would be strictly inefficient for anyone to not take two penalties, which I don't think is PW's goal. Kri's idea is better, because it doesn't encourage minmaxing.
Except that going from +1 to +2 would still require an extra -1 somewhere else, since that second level costs twice as much as the first. This would just mean starting with a +2 would require -3 total instead of -4.
Post by: syvarris on March 24, 2015, 12:52:05 pm
((Ya did. Bonuses in each category go like this:
For a cumulative total bonus of +1, you need a cumulative total penalty of -1.
For a cumulative total bonus of +2, you need a cumulative total penalty of -3.
For a cumulative total bonus of +3, you need a cumulative total penalty of -6.
For a cumulative total bonus of +4, you need a cumulative total penalty of -10.
A +2 already requires only minus three. You're suggesting making it cost minus two. Unless I'm really confused, which isn't impossible.
Post by: Nikitian on March 24, 2015, 01:04:15 pm
It is proposed for there to be another separate +1 at the cost of one more -1
Which results in:
So it is not beneficial to take anything, it is merely balanced both +2 in single stat (equivalent to three single -1s, i.e. 15 points) and +1 +1 in two stats (equivalent to two single -1s, i.e. 10 points). It is just that, as it currently is, it is strictly inefficient to try spreading the chargen bonuses, which goes to the contrary of earlier ideas behind some professions.Code: [Select]1 +1: 1 -1 ( 5 points: 5 points)
2 +1: 2 -1 if on separate stats (10 points:10 points)
2 +1: 3 -1 if on the same stat (15 points:15 points)
3 +1: 4 -1 ( 4=1+1+2) (the inefficiency of over-specialization starts to kick in)
4 +1: 7 -1 ( 7=1+1+2+3)
5 +1: 11 -1 (11=1+1+2+3+4)
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 24, 2015, 01:08:40 pm
If really needed, I'd say 5 skill and 5 stat points at the start would be best.
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 01:14:23 pm
I like the new system. It's not overly difficult (to me, at least, though I haven't yet tried to respec) and kinda flexible. And I don't really think anything extra is needed at character generation. You are basically weighing being more powerful now, but with a hit in certain areas (which can be minmaxxed for, certainly for skills) against a potential better efficiency later but less utility in the short run.I agree with this, if only because I can't figure out what the other thing would entail.
If really needed, I'd say 5 skill and 5 stat points at the start would be best.
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 24, 2015, 01:51:38 pm
The thing is, I don't think we need those extra points. To me, the new characters feel about the same as the old characters. Just require a little adjustment.I like the new system. It's not overly difficult (to me, at least, though I haven't yet tried to respec) and kinda flexible. And I don't really think anything extra is needed at character generation. You are basically weighing being more powerful now, but with a hit in certain areas (which can be minmaxxed for, certainly for skills) against a potential better efficiency later but less utility in the short run.I agree with this, if only because I can't figure out what the other thing would entail.
If really needed, I'd say 5 skill and 5 stat points at the start would be best.
Post by: Xantalos on March 24, 2015, 01:54:55 pm
Post by: Kriellya on March 24, 2015, 03:07:22 pm
The thing is, I don't think we need those extra points. To me, the new characters feel about the same as the old characters. Just require a little adjustment.
They don't to me, because it is *not reasonable* for me to spec as a fleshtech, or merc, or any of the other more broadly spread 'classes'.
Basically, the issue for me is that it feels highly restrictive to *create* characters right now, because spreading out is pretty heavily penalized. In terms of 'character identity', you can basically only have one really good stat and one really good skill at the start, instead of making a character that is experienced at multiple things.
I can make Skylar feel like Skylar... but *only* because I have 5 missions under my belt. If I were making a fresh character, I *can't* make a fleshtech, without feeling really penalized. Part of that is because, with making a character that already has stats, I can trivially see that adding points to Aux in the initial phase is *bad mathematically*
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 24, 2015, 03:34:54 pm
all 0: end with 1 +1 5 point total
+1/-1 : end with two +2 or 1 +1 and +5 points in same skill 5 point total
+1+1/-3: end with three +1 0 point total
+2/-3: end with 1 +2, but no 5 points to spend 0 point total
(assuming -5 points per -1)
This didn't seem very popular, but it does solve the 5 point difference between +1+1/+2, and gives an even bigger bonus to more rounded characters. Another way to solve it is cap starting bonus at +1, but that also wasn't very popular.
We could always remove the special chargen system (aka all 0, not my favorite), or restrict it to a single +1/-1 like it used to be, maybe with then 5 or 10 points extra to spend to make up? And maybe a rule that every skill at 0 gets extra -1?
All that said, I personally still don't really think the difference is big enough to warrant a need for any extra rules, but I might be biased since I'm not a new character, so I'm brainstorming here.
Post by: Nikitian on March 24, 2015, 03:51:50 pm
Now, as I stipulated, those 5 points at +2vs.+1+1 comparison (or at +2+1 vs. +1+1+1 comparison in case of proposed change) are not 'net gain' for a focused-build character; they are 'loss' for diversified-build character. This loss in intrinsic to the system; the original system balances around gaining more and more bonuses and penalizes for spreading out. IF it were reworked to suit the +2 cap, by charging exactly -1 for every 0->+1 and -2 for every +1->+2 it would be perfectly balanced around the levelling system and allow for any amount of bonuses and penalties... which might not have been desired by creator.
By introducing the single compromise of the proposed change, however, we shift the balance slightly toward two-stat-capable characters, lessen the general trouble of making diversified characters in general and keep most of the original balance and intention in place. (Which, yes, includes the generated character being more and more point-inefficient the further you specialise one.)
Also, I believe that giving points outright is a hard counter to the problem, and external one at that; I hope that by using soft counter internal to the system in question the desired balance could be achieved in a more natural and fruitful way.
Post by: Persus13 on March 24, 2015, 05:46:48 pm
I also think Complete Novice should be -1, Hazard at -2, and then something along the lines of Some Expertise to be 0, with everyone automatically starting at -1, as that was something I really liked about the original system was the emphasis that you initially sucked unless you put in some points.
Also, I just changed my respect.
Post by: syvarris on March 24, 2015, 06:23:46 pm
That might not be an issue, because we can just have all newbies walked through the design when they create their character, and forget about it afterwards. I'd think that would be bad, but I don't really know.
@Persus
Actually, the old system was more like Sky's idea. Stats, for instance, had enough points that you could have no bonus less than zero, and one bonus of +1/3. Skills weren't to that point, but you could still be at +0 in most skills at the beginning.
This is another reason I like Sky's idea of providing one levelup at the beginning; It's closer to the original power level.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 24, 2015, 09:41:26 pm
Basically a way to make checking your character sheets for errors easier.
As always, suggestions or bug reports are welcome.
Source code here: https://github.com/parisbre56/bay12test/blob/master/character_creation.html
Post by: Tavik Toth on March 24, 2015, 09:59:30 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 24, 2015, 10:10:21 pm
I'm still very much unsure how I should respec. Halp?You've been on 5 missions. The AP mission counts as two so that means it's like you've been on 6 missions. You also participated in the boarding action and the timeskip that give half a levelup each.
That means you get 30 points to spend on stats and 30 points to spend on skills. Spend them however you like. You also have 10 points that you can spend either on stats or skills EDIT: or a combination of the two. Spend them however you like. That is all.
Is there anything more specific you are confused about?
Post by: NAV on March 24, 2015, 10:15:39 pm
As outlined in IRC, the two main problems I see with it is that these are 'extra' points and they would needlessly complicate checking for correct levelling. 'Extra' means that at start even an absolutely-rounded all-0 character can have an extra +1 with no penalties whatsoever, which is probably against the original idea.I fully like and support this idea.
Now, as I stipulated, those 5 points at +2vs.+1+1 comparison (or at +2+1 vs. +1+1+1 comparison in case of proposed change) are not 'net gain' for a focused-build character; they are 'loss' for diversified-build character. This loss in intrinsic to the system; the original system balances around gaining more and more bonuses and penalizes for spreading out. IF it were reworked to suit the +2 cap, by charging exactly -1 for every 0->+1 and -2 for every +1->+2 it would be perfectly balanced around the levelling system and allow for any amount of bonuses and penalties... which might not have been desired by creator.
By introducing the single compromise of the proposed change, however, we shift the balance slightly toward two-stat-capable characters, lessen the general trouble of making diversified characters in general and keep most of the original balance and intention in place. (Which, yes, includes the generated character being more and more point-inefficient the further you specialise one.)
Also, I believe that giving points outright is a hard counter to the problem, and external one at that; I hope that by using soft counter internal to the system in question the desired balance could be achieved in a more natural and fruitful way.
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 25, 2015, 12:48:25 am
I agree.As outlined in IRC, the two main problems I see with it is that these are 'extra' points and they would needlessly complicate checking for correct levelling. 'Extra' means that at start even an absolutely-rounded all-0 character can have an extra +1 with no penalties whatsoever, which is probably against the original idea.I fully like and support this idea.
Now, as I stipulated, those 5 points at +2vs.+1+1 comparison (or at +2+1 vs. +1+1+1 comparison in case of proposed change) are not 'net gain' for a focused-build character; they are 'loss' for diversified-build character. This loss in intrinsic to the system; the original system balances around gaining more and more bonuses and penalizes for spreading out. IF it were reworked to suit the +2 cap, by charging exactly -1 for every 0->+1 and -2 for every +1->+2 it would be perfectly balanced around the levelling system and allow for any amount of bonuses and penalties... which might not have been desired by creator.
By introducing the single compromise of the proposed change, however, we shift the balance slightly toward two-stat-capable characters, lessen the general trouble of making diversified characters in general and keep most of the original balance and intention in place. (Which, yes, includes the generated character being more and more point-inefficient the further you specialise one.)
Also, I believe that giving points outright is a hard counter to the problem, and external one at that; I hope that by using soft counter internal to the system in question the desired balance could be achieved in a more natural and fruitful way.
Post by: Corsair on March 25, 2015, 04:32:11 am
Spoiler: Konrad Curtz (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 25, 2015, 05:13:37 am
Did this thing to help with things: http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/character_creation.htmlUh.
Basically a way to make checking your character sheets for errors easier.
As always, suggestions or bug reports are welcome.
Source code here: https://github.com/parisbre56/bay12test/blob/master/character_creation.html
What's that do?
Post by: Nikitian on March 25, 2015, 05:46:08 am
Did this thing to help with things: http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/character_creation.htmlFor some reason, it does not work for Intelligence stat for me: it does count the assigned points towards the total points spent/number of Mission level-ups, as well as number of positive/negative levels, but neither "Total Level" of Int changes, nor "Left for next level" - both tried through "Initial Level" input and through "Points spent".
Basically a way to make checking your character sheets for errors easier.
As always, suggestions or bug reports are welcome.
Source code here: https://github.com/parisbre56/bay12test/blob/master/character_creation.html
@Xan It's just an automated charsheet calculator.
Post by: Kriellya on March 25, 2015, 06:05:18 am
Did this thing to help with things: http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/character_creation.htmlFor some reason, it does not work for Intelligence stat for me: it does count the assigned points towards the total points spent/number of Mission level-ups, as well as number of positive/negative levels, but neither "Total Level" of Int changes, nor "Left for next level" - both tried through "Initial Level" input and through "Points spent".
Basically a way to make checking your character sheets for errors easier.
As always, suggestions or bug reports are welcome.
Source code here: https://github.com/parisbre56/bay12test/blob/master/character_creation.html
@Xan It's just an automated charsheet calculator.
Mmm, I see that bug. Weird. Of all the stats to *break* :P
I'll see if I can fix it before I go to bed.
Edit: Bug squashed. The program is now intelligent.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 25, 2015, 06:17:17 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 25, 2015, 09:15:37 am
Hmm. After mulling over, I think that if we do really want a new rule to prevent the slight point difference, while necessarily staying within the new system as-is, then the idea of an extra -1 wouldn't be that bad. Though I do wonder if it wouldn't be easier to go to a different system that's more like the old one, where you just pick 1 1+/-1 and get 10 or 15 points to invest, while 0 in a stat giving -1. Kinda seems much easier to balance than the current one, but it doesn't have that 'increasing bonus has faster increasing malus' thing.
How about a pool of starting points, that gets decreased with each application of +1/-1? I.e. you have 20 points to start, and each application uses up 5 points. This limits you to four +1/-1 operations per category. With the +2/-2 limit, what perturbations would there be?
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 25, 2015, 11:24:19 am
I've added a notice to the Stats and Skills page (http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Stats_and_Skills) that it is obsolete and that it should be redone at some point.
I've redone my character attributes (http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Flint_Westwood#Attributes), just posting them here for posterity. I tried to refrain from minmaxing and tried sticking as close to my previous character as possible: A jack of all trades which is good at shooting and bad at medicine.
Spoiler: Initial levels (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: After levelups (click to show/hide)
And, just for fun, what I would do if I wanted to minmax:
Spoiler: Min Maxwood: Sniper Elite (click to show/hide)
Thoughts about the new system
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Comrade P. on March 25, 2015, 11:28:29 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 25, 2015, 11:36:05 am
Guys, I haven't quite followed your discussion. Are there any PW/council-approved changes to initial respec order?Piecewise is currently busy killing things, so I do not think he has made any ruling, unless he said something in IRC when I was not connected/paying attention. He has made no posts here and no edits in the first post.
Post by: Lenglon on March 25, 2015, 12:46:43 pm
Spoiler: Initial Stats (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Current Stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on March 25, 2015, 03:40:06 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 25, 2015, 03:41:30 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on March 25, 2015, 03:51:44 pm
Post by: Hapah on March 25, 2015, 04:06:18 pm
And the week-long waiting period strangely seems to coincide with the release. Hm...Funny how that works, yeah? Though I imagine he's earned himself a little break.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 25, 2015, 04:15:13 pm
If PW is the person who loves Dark Souls however... I dunno when he's going to come out.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 25, 2015, 04:18:58 pm
Post by: Nikitian on March 25, 2015, 05:54:10 pm
We'll just amuse ourselves coming up with ever more elaborate rules appendixes until he returns, looks at it, then goes back to bloodborne.On it, sir!
Post by: Xantalos on March 25, 2015, 05:57:32 pm
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 25, 2015, 06:36:13 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 25, 2015, 11:53:47 pm
Sorry for causing everyone to have to alter their sheets a bit.
Post by: Xantalos on March 25, 2015, 11:55:04 pm
NIK EXPLAAAAIN
EXPLAAAAAIN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlpRBLkgcBo)
Post by: piecewise on March 25, 2015, 11:58:41 pm
Ask me questions.
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 12:05:40 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 12:12:01 am
Well, long reasons short, there is another extra +1/-1 to spend, but you can use it only if you spend the bonus on increasing a second different skill (so, if you can have +1 Con, +1 Intuition and -2 to spread, but if you stick with +2 Con, you have to spread -3).
The whole table of possible variants for your convenience:
Code: [Select]
1 +1s: 1 -1s
2 +1s: 2 -1s if on separate stats
2 +1s: 3 -1s if on the same stat (as in original system)
3 +1s: 4 -1s ( 4=1+1+2) (the inefficiency of over-specialization starts to kick in)
4 +1s: 7 -1s ( 7=1+1+2+3)
5 +1s: 11 -1s (11=1+1+2+3+4)
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 26, 2015, 12:15:01 am
Wait, does this apply to both stats and skills? Can the 1+ bonus only be used once on either stats or skills or does it apply once to each?
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 12:17:15 am
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2015, 12:23:51 am
So what if I do those two +/-1s and then add a third +1 on top of one of those? Would I have to subtract -3 for that then?
Yes, according to chat(really, just get in here!)
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 12:25:34 am
Coolio.Both stats and skills, as usual.
Wait, does this apply to both stats and skills? Can the 1+ bonus only be used once on either stats or skills or does it apply once to each?
So what if I do those two +/-1s and then add a third +1 on top of one of those? Would I have to subtract -3 for that then?It merely circumvents the usual ladder of "one +1, one more -1s than the last time"; so third +1 would come at the price of two -1s, as before, fourth - at the price of three -1s, and so on.
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 12:28:55 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 12:33:24 am
The total list of strictly 100% efficient builds:
Code: [Select]
+1/ -1
+1 +1/ -1 -1
+2/ -1 -1 -1
+2 +1/ -1 -1 -1 -1... Aand that's it. More and it gets inefficient (without taking "dump stats" into consideration, of course.)
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 12:35:52 am
Post by: kj1225 on March 26, 2015, 12:37:34 am
Post by: piecewise on March 26, 2015, 01:33:43 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 01:40:44 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 26, 2015, 01:44:08 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 01:46:48 am
Strange, last time I turned on my computer I updated Java.
...
Has Java been updated at all in the past ... 9 months?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 26, 2015, 01:58:24 am
Ah.Yes, it has been updated.
Strange, last time I turned on my computer I updated Java.
...
Has Java been updated at all in the past ... 9 months?
But I said JavaScript, not Java. Those two have as much common as a blueberry and banana.
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 02:00:41 am
I'll try to download i-
Actually can someone just run my character sheet through it and see if it checks out?
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 02:02:07 am
And... yes, I think it is correct according to the new rules. Three level-ups and two "half-levelups", right?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 26, 2015, 02:02:54 am
Those are both fruit, they're practically identical.Berries actually.
I'll try to download i-
Actually can someone just run my character sheet through it and see if it checks out?
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 02:04:05 am
Post by: Remalle on March 26, 2015, 02:33:52 am
Post by: Kriellya on March 26, 2015, 03:00:52 am
Those are both fruit, they're practically identical.
I'll try to download i-
Actually can someone just run my character sheet through it and see if it checks out?
They really, really aren't XD
THE CHARACTER CREATOR HAS BEEN UPDATED! IT NOW ACCOUNTS FOR THE CHANGE, AND APPLIES THE BONUS AUTOMATICALLY!
My recommendation for using the creator is to put in the +'s you would like, then look at how many points the system tells you to take away. Going above a total of +3 is probably not ideal, but the system will handle it fine :P
Oh, by the way, it's not possible to have more than +4 initially. You can't add enough -1's. Have fun!
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 26, 2015, 03:15:03 am
Post by: Kriellya on March 26, 2015, 03:55:16 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 05:04:37 am
Spoiler: MSanctor Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: MSanctor Updated (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 26, 2015, 05:35:25 am
Code: (Anton Chernozorov, base) [Select]
STR: 0
DEX:-1
END: 0
CHA:-1
INT: 2
WIL:-1
FATE:0
Intuition_____: 0
Handiwork_____: 2
Conventional__: 0
Unconventional: 0
Exotic________:-2
Auxiliary_____: 0
Medical_______:-1
General_______: 0Missions: Planetoid, Heph Assault, Heph Defense. Timeskip.
20/20 +5 points.
Code: (Anton Chernozorov, Updated) [Select]
STR: 0
DEX: 0 [5]
END: 0
CHA: 0 [5]
INT: 2(5) [5]
WIL: 0 [5]
FATE:0
[20 points]
Intuition_____: 1 [5]
Handiwork_____: 2
Conventional__: 0
Unconventional: 0
Exotic________:-2
Auxiliary_____: 2 [15]
Medical_______:-1
General_______: 1 [5]
[20 +5 points]I think that's all.
Post by: Toaster on March 26, 2015, 08:07:05 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 26, 2015, 08:17:35 am
JavaScript is part of your web browser. So as long as you are using a relatively new version of Firefox/Chrome, you should be fine. Internet Explorer and the built-in browser for Android might not run it depending on their version, but you can always just download the new version or switch to Firefox/Chrome. (Currently using Firefox for Android.) I have no idea what happens with Apple devices since I've never used one, but they too should work pretty much the same.
@Kriellya: Thanks for the quick fix. I think I see a small bug in it, I'll test it once I get home to confirm, since I'm currently writing from phone. I think that test should be temp==1 instead of temp>0. I think I need to reread that rule. EDIT: Never mind, I had simply misunderstood the rule. I thought it only applied for stats with initial_level=1.
@Everyone: As always, if you see any mistake or have suggestions for improvements, say so and I'll see what I can do.
Post by: Knight Otu on March 26, 2015, 08:22:36 am
Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Missions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Respec (click to show/hide)
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 26, 2015, 10:28:38 am
Spoiler: Han Thren Initial (click to show/hide)
Mission 18 Levelup: 5 points into Mind, 5 points into Medical Tech
Spoiler: Han Thren Final (click to show/hide)
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2015, 10:46:11 am
Yancy Hargraves
Strength:+1
Dexterity:0
Endurance:+1
Charisma:-1
Intelligence:-2
Willpower:0
Fate:0
Intuition:)
Handiwork:0
Conventional Weapons:+2
Unconventional Weapons:+1
Exotic weapons:-2
Auxiliary Systems:-0
Medical Tech:-2
General Knowledge:0
Post by: renegadelobster on March 26, 2015, 11:27:57 am
Thaddeus (Base)
Strength: 0
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: 0
Will: +1
Fate: 0
Intuition: 0
Handiwork: 0
Conventional: 0
Unconventional: -1
Exotic: +2
Auxiliary: -1
Medical Tech: -1
General Knowledge: 0
Thaddeus (Leveled)
Strength: +1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: +1
Charisma: -1
Intelligence: 0
Will: +2
Fate: +1
Intuition: 0
Handiwork: 0
Conventional: +1
Unconventional: -1
Exotic: +2
Auxiliary: 0
Medical Tech: -1
General Knowledge: +1
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 26, 2015, 11:41:55 am
@Nunzillor: Skills on your sheet doesn't match up. Too many penalties.
Post by: Dutrius on March 26, 2015, 11:58:37 am
Spoiler: Kai Branden (Base) (click to show/hide)
One mission: (M18) (5 points for skills and stats)
Spoiler: Kai Branden (re-specced) (click to show/hide)
Is it +1/-1 for both skills and stats? Or is it just for only one?
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 01:09:14 pm
Post by: Kriellya on March 26, 2015, 02:16:12 pm
@Paris: Yeah, I'm on IE version 6.something I think? Doesn't really matter though, I'm happy with how my sheet is and I don't think I fucked it up.
If your fine with your sheet, it doesn't matter. We made the tool to help, if you don't need the tool that's fine.
Though seriously, IE 6? Damn. :P
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 02:21:16 pm
Post by: Kriellya on March 26, 2015, 02:24:55 pm
Please hold, I need to scrape your IP address. No reason.
Seriously, get a modern browser XD
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 02:28:41 pm
Besides, I don't see any reason for updating since Bay12 is basically the only thing I do besides reading HP Lovecraft online.
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 02:34:26 pm
Post by: Dutrius on March 26, 2015, 02:35:28 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 02:37:11 pm
Somehow it feels even scarier that Xan the Eldritch Eater of Worlds is using a browser that antiquated. Maybe he's running a PC emulator on his personal fleshware rig and it's a pain in the synapses to port over any new software at all? Well, that'd be fairly in-character, I guess. :PThat plus it's kinda grown into my fibrils by now; it'd probably hurt to take it out and replace it with something else.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 26, 2015, 02:39:49 pm
I've just had a thought. What happens to the stat requirements on gear? Amps, Manips, Heavy stuff etc.Piecewise said they might change (he actually says so in the first post) but he has said nothing specific about them.
Post by: Toaster on March 26, 2015, 02:52:31 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2015, 02:54:25 pm
I've just had a thought. What happens to the stat requirements on gear? Amps, Manips, Heavy stuff etc.Nobody knows.
Work in progress, will probably change once pw answers questions:
Spoiler: char creation (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: them level ups though (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 02:59:46 pm
*avatar bonuses*
Say WHAT DAMN
Post by: Kriellya on March 26, 2015, 03:01:33 pm
Time to go into negotiation with PW...
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2015, 03:04:26 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 03:06:58 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2015, 03:08:28 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 26, 2015, 03:11:20 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 03:14:14 pm
Dammit now I'm salivating.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2015, 03:14:59 pm
Maybe one of you can ask him in irc how it works? And then maybe also ask what the requirement is for universal manip in terms of intelligence, and if the avatar still counts for that?
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2015, 03:18:34 pm
I knew it was ridiculous in the old rolling system, but (if it's how it's gonna be applied), the Avatar's the equivalent of 8-10 missions. To say the least it's a powergamer's wet dream, especially since it comes with weapons all on its own.
Dammit now I'm salivating.
It used to take 3 missions to get a +1. If anything, this system nerfs it. A little.
Post by: Kriellya on March 26, 2015, 03:19:04 pm
I knew it was ridiculous in the old rolling system, but (if it's how it's gonna be applied), the Avatar's the equivalent of 8-10 missions. To say the least it's a powergamer's wet dream, especially since it comes with weapons all on its own.
Dammit now I'm salivating.
I don't know how you're doing your math, but it's equivalent to *19* missions.
And it was equivalent to 24 missions in the old system.
Post by: Hapah on March 26, 2015, 03:21:08 pm
Like, imagine that you have a normal human, a synthflesh person, and an Avatar all with a +1 in strength. For a given action (pick up a car over your head), it might be impossible for the normal guy, require a decent roll for the synthflesh person, and be an auto or near-auto success for the avatar. Same bonuses, different requirements for an action to be successful.
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 03:22:36 pm
Still, it brings the person so much closer to auto-success in everything without needing a decomp that it has a higher perceived value to me.
Post by: syvarris on March 26, 2015, 07:14:26 pm
Back when we first were arguing about the new system, I asked PW about how strength would be handled, and he explicitly said that an Avatar whose pilot had -2 strength would stagger around and be extremely dangerous to his allies.
@General request
I'm not gonna be able to camp IRC for PW, and it doesn't look like he's gonna be reliably answering questions in any thread. If anyone gets the chance, can they ask PW the below bolded questions? They're essential for my respec, since Saint's unlikely to ever get a levelup again, and is the only Hephaestian who'll use amps.
What stats are required to use the Organochemistry Overrider Psychokinetic Amplifier (the mind control amp)? Previously, it required 12 cha, and 15 will, so does that translate to +1 in both of those? "Probably +2 in will, and +1 in charisma"
Does a universal amp that doesn't require being an amp specialist exist? If so, what stat requirements does it have? "Yes. Probably +4 will. Or Exo."
Does being an avid tinkerer on Heph require any special stats/skills like Intelligence, Handiwork, or General knowledge? Before, you only forced me to have a +0 in int. (This includes minimum, because all of them will likely have -2 if you let met) "no"
I have the distinct feeling that PW is going to give me so many required stats that I'm forced to hamstring myself just to obtain them alongside the ones I want. Hopefully I can design a two-brain robobody, and just have a robosod control my movements. ._.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 26, 2015, 08:03:29 pm
Only things I can see this being useful for is giving orders to sods if radio/QEC is disabled (unlikely), trying to mess with aliens/alien artifacts (has a high chance of death), piloting Grate around in places where there's no signal for a machine that overrides his nerves, mind reading for potential traitors (in which case you are better off taking the neural connector, since piecwise said it would be better for mind reading: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136149.msg5664589#msg5664589 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136149.msg5664589#msg5664589)).
Unless you intend to mind control your fellow Hephaestians for some Sinister Initiative for Slaughter and Insubordination, there's little use for it.
Post by: syvarris on March 26, 2015, 09:31:33 pm
In any case, it's a skill that has uses, which no other Hephaestian has. I'm pretty much of the opinion that every skill that can't be done by sods, is probably a good skill for at least one of us to have. We have handi people, we've got aux people, med people, int, cha, gen. know... but no exo.
And yes, when I first decided I wanted MC it was because I didn't like Simus' dictatorship, but that's changed, so there's no malignant plans now.
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 09:47:24 pm
Now then, who got that painless knife thing again?
Post by: Empiricist on March 26, 2015, 09:49:27 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 09:52:23 pm
I can't compete with him in the durability department anymore and Xan's in no state to be convincing people of anything with his -2 charisma.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: Empiricist on March 26, 2015, 09:59:51 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 10:04:47 pm
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 10:07:34 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 26, 2015, 10:10:06 pm
Hmm.
I suppose we'll see how things go.
Post by: Gentlefish on March 26, 2015, 11:16:47 pm
Spoiler: Ryan Jorgensen's new stats! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 26, 2015, 11:17:59 pm
There was a small change, you only need to -1 two stats for the top, and same for bottom.Spoiler: Ryan Jorgensen's new stats! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Empiricist on March 26, 2015, 11:18:10 pm
Uh, except it's not Mesk that's currently having it, it's Maurice. He bought it from Morul after we took Hephaestus, IIRC.Didn't he give it to Mesk prior to getting his implant removed though?
Post by: Nikitian on March 26, 2015, 11:20:57 pm
On stat requirements:
It appears that they are being majorly reworked, and still unfinished. Piecewise said to wait until the weekend.
(It appears that minor strength requirement is going to be mostly ignored; amp requirements will probably be based on Exo level solely, with Universal Amp being cited as requiring +4 Exo. Only speculations so far, though.)
On the Avatar of War:
Most of the bonuses would likely disappear by becoming non-numerical (like Avatar's physical might, for example).
Post by: kisame12794 on March 27, 2015, 12:24:42 am
Spoiler: Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lvl'd (click to show/hide)
I have a feeling this is wrong, but that's what the program spat out at me.
Post by: Nikitian on March 27, 2015, 12:27:49 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 27, 2015, 12:40:35 am
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 27, 2015, 12:25:05 pm
Post by: Hapah on March 27, 2015, 12:48:53 pm
Spoiler: Taddok Find: Base Character (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Taddok Find: 2 Missions (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 27, 2015, 04:18:25 pm
Post by: Unholy_Pariah on March 27, 2015, 10:03:30 pm
Auron Kell
missions 4 (+1 extra for anomalous planet.), timeskip, boarding. 25 points stat/skill, 10 points bonus
Code: [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [2] (1 +10)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [-1] (-1 +0)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
Handiwork________: [1] (0 +5)
Conventional_____: [-1] (-1 +0)
Unconventional___: [2] (1 +10)
Exotic devices___: [-1] (-1 +0)
Auxiliary tech___: [2] (1 +10)
Medical tech___: [0] (0 +0)
General knowledge___: [0] (0 +0)
mesk vraite
missions 9 (+1 extra for anomalous planet.), timeskip. 50 points stat/skill, 5 points bonus
Code: [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [0] (-1 +5)
DEX: [1] (0 +5)
END: [0] (-1 +5)
CHA: [-1] (-1 +0)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [4] (2 +35)
INTU: [0] (0 +0)
Handiwork________: [0] (0 +0)
Conventional_____: [-1] (-1 +0)
Unconventional___: [2] (1 +10)
Exotic devices___: [-1] (-1 +0)
Auxiliary tech___: [2] (1 +10)
Medical tech_____: [3] (0 +30)
General knowledge: [0] (0 +0)
Spoiler: proof im allowed to do remalles sheet (click to show/hide)
Post by: PyroDesu on March 28, 2015, 01:48:53 am
Spoiler: Respec for Simus (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Proof of PW letting me have a no-penalty +1 to Handiwork (click to show/hide)
Post by: NAV on March 28, 2015, 02:06:41 am
Spoiler: Final Dubley Final Sheet (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pancaek on March 28, 2015, 07:13:38 am
Spoiler: Pan start (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: points (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pan end (click to show/hide)
--edit: moved 5 points to int and changed initial level in uncon to aux--
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 09:12:12 am
Also, to those who picked upgrading Fate on roleplaying reasons, what would be your assessment of Maurice and his Fate stat, character-wise (based on your personal interpretation of that stat's meaning)? I remember that Lenglon had previously tackled the problem with respeccing her character, and possibly several others too.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 29, 2015, 09:17:02 am
Spoiler: Base: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level up (1 mission): (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on March 29, 2015, 09:27:07 am
Also, to those who picked upgrading Fate on roleplaying reasons, what would be your assessment of Maurice and his Fate stat, character-wise (based on your personal interpretation of that stat's meaning)? I remember that Lenglon had previously tackled the problem with respeccing her character, and possibly several others too.I never got an answer
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 09:35:06 am
First, bonuses can't go above +2 at chargen. Second, treat it exactly as the original system, except that there's an extra +1/-1 insterted in the bonuses/penalties progression, the bonus of which has to be used on upgrading 0->+1.
So, in general, it works this way:
The whole table of possible variants for your convenience:Oh, and it's impossible to spread around 11 -1s, as it was discovered later, so the last line is mostly for calculations reference.Code: [Select]1 +1s: 1 -1s
2 +1s: 2 -1s if on separate stats
2 +1s: 3 -1s if on the same stat (as in original system)
3 +1s: 4 -1s ( 4=1+1+2) (the inefficiency of over-specialization starts to kick in)
4 +1s: 7 -1s ( 7=1+1+2+3)
5 +1s: 11 -1s (11=1+1+2+3+4)
Anyway, it appears that the wiki Stats and Skills page is up to date on current respeccing rules.
@Lenglon
Ah, pity. I was really looking forward to your advice on the matter, since you were the first one to bring it up originally.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 29, 2015, 09:50:03 am
Post by: TCM on March 29, 2015, 09:56:33 am
Spoiler: Initial Points (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Post-2 Missions (10 Points) (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 29, 2015, 10:23:45 am
D'usse de CognacNot quite.Spoiler: Initial Points (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Post-2 Missions (10 Points) (click to show/hide)
I think I did this correctly.
The +1/-1 rule only works for two +1/-1s. If you have a single +2 you have to have three -1s, and if you have three +1s you have to have four -1s, and increasing from there.
So you need one more -1 (or one less +1 and one less -1) for your stats, and either turn your +2 into a +1, or add three more -1s to your skills.
On top of that, however, you get 5 points per mission for both the Stat and the skill block, so you can distribute 10 more points on Stats.
If you're confused, use this: http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/character_creation.html
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 10:25:02 am
@TCM I'm afraid you're missing on penalties for both stats and skills in the initial charsheet; specifically, for 3 bonuses in total there have to be 4 penalties, and for 4 bonuses - 7 penalties. Please consult the table I posted above, the Stats and Skills wiki page or the character respec calculator linked in the Piecewise's title post of this thread (note that the chargen system outlined in said post is a bit out of date).
Edit: Ninja'd by Sean.
Post by: HavingPhun on March 29, 2015, 10:48:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 10:53:31 am
Post by: TCM on March 29, 2015, 11:24:22 am
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 11:31:59 am
Post by: TCM on March 29, 2015, 11:40:51 am
@TCM Still no, I am afraid ;); now you can drop one more -1 from stats and from skills too.
There, everything should be good. D'usse is now slightly more charming and less incompetent with medical supplies.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 29, 2015, 12:10:44 pm
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 12:26:03 pm
@Nunzillor Don't worry, there was a lot of turmoil initially and especially when the change was introduced. :) Oh, and yeah, it's good.
Post by: HavingPhun on March 29, 2015, 12:45:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nikitian on March 29, 2015, 01:01:01 pm
Yeah, it's good as well.
Post by: Kriellya on March 31, 2015, 02:42:11 am
Read this --> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135884.msg6133334#msg6133334
It details changes to Int, Will, Uncon, and Exo. The major change for the restat'ing process is that Int & Will are no more, and have been combined into the MIND stat.
Anyone with points in Will or Int, please repost. I'd assume that you'd just like everything dumped in Mind, but some of you may wish to choose entirely different builds.
If you did not have points in Int or Will, you do not need to do anything, but you may want to change your build anyway in light of new information.
Post by: Empiricist on March 31, 2015, 03:46:08 am
Code: (Charles Leroux (WIP)) [Select]
Missions: 2 (Ice-9, Assault and Defense of Hephaestus)
Timeskips: 1 (Post-Conquest of Hephaestus [1 Year])
Strength:-2 [-2 initially]
Dexterity:-1 [-1 initially]
Endurance:0 [0 initially]
Charisma:+3 [+2 initially, 15 points]
Mind: 0 [0 initially]
Fate:0 [0 initially]
Intuition:0 [0 initially]
Handiwork:-1 [-1 initially]
Conventional Weapons:0 [0 initially]
Unconventional Weapons:0 [0 initially]
Exotic weapons:-2 [-2 initially]
Auxiliary Systems:0 [0 initially]
Medical Tech:0 [0 initially]
General Knowledge:-1 [-1 initially]
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2015, 04:52:26 am
Code: [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [0] (0 +0)
DEX: [0] (0 +0)
END: [0] (0 +0)
CHA: [0] (-1 +5)
MIND: [2] (1 +15)
FATE: [0] (0 +0)
Intuition________: [1] (0 +5)
Handiwork________: [2] (2 +0)
Conventional_____: [0] (0 +0)
Unconventional___: [0] (0 +0)
Exotic devices___: [-2] (-2 +0)
Auxiliary tech___: [2] (0 +15)
Medical tech_____: [-1] (-1 +0)
General knowledge: [1] (0 +5)
Post by: Nikitian on March 31, 2015, 05:57:04 am
CROSS POSTING HERE, BECAUSE WE NEED PEOPLE TO DO THEIR SHEETS AGAINWith all respect, the discussion there is not over yet. I would recommend avoiding respeccing yet once again without the changes being finalized. Mind might still split back into Int and Will, skills might change their functions or be removed completely, per some suggestions.
Read this --> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135884.msg6133334#msg6133334
It details changes to Int, Will, Uncon, and Exo. The major change for the restat'ing process is that Int & Will are no more, and have been combined into the MIND stat.
Anyone with points in Will or Int, please repost. I'd assume that you'd just like everything dumped in Mind, but some of you may wish to choose entirely different builds.
If you did not have points in Int or Will, you do not need to do anything, but you may want to change your build anyway in light of new information.
In short, Please join the discussion now and delay reworking sheets until it is over.
Unless you derive certain pleasure from changing your character sheet over and over, which is perfectly fine and acceptable in this day and age. :P
Post by: renegadelobster on April 01, 2015, 12:26:41 am
Spoiler: Thaddeus (click to show/hide)
Level ups:
3 missions
15 Skill points
15 Stat points
10 Wild
Spoiler: Thaddeus (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Moved Intuition to Stats, changed the Skills starting character bonus from Exo to Con, and some other minor changes
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2015, 12:35:51 am
Spoiler: Yancy (click to show/hide)
Hopefully this is the last change I need to make :/
Post by: renegadelobster on April 01, 2015, 12:46:03 am
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2015, 12:48:29 am
@tryrar No more willpower stat now, just mind
whoops, thought I had deleted that :P
Post by: renegadelobster on April 01, 2015, 12:56:48 am
Post by: NAV on April 01, 2015, 01:08:47 am
Spoiler: Dubley (click to show/hide)
20 stat
20 skill
10 wildcard
Spoiler: Dubbers (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yoink on April 01, 2015, 01:32:15 am
Could someone... maybe PM me once things are actually decided on? I failed at figuring it out last time.
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2015, 01:36:51 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 01, 2015, 02:48:12 am
Post by: Kriellya on April 01, 2015, 12:16:31 pm
That or your random number generator is broken... use a better generator.
Post by: Nikitian on April 01, 2015, 12:31:34 pm
I don't know, given how the universe is breaking down, it might be possible now. Setup a jump-scare room set to have things jump up at them from random places, then leave them in it for a few hours. If they start accurately predicting which one is coming up next, they've clearly gained some intuition! And are also psychic. Because we've established that this is how intuition behaves in this world. :POooh, you gave me a wonderful idea! We could setup a facility where a large number of subjects would be constantly boozing up with Xenospit and Bluesmokes, all while working out to be able to gain new levels in those, and then in time maybe we'll get a few fully realised prophets spewing out bits of knowledge about the future!
That or your random number generator is broken... use a better generator.
Wait, why does that sound so familiar to the 'Corps lifestyle? ...Oh.
Post by: piecewise on April 01, 2015, 01:25:28 pm
Intuition is now a STAT not a skill
Sorry about all this changing.
Post by: Pancaek on April 01, 2015, 01:29:34 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 01, 2015, 01:42:53 pm
How does this affect stuff like the pimpcane which required +0 INT and WILL?It's just 0 mind instead.
Post by: Wolfkit on April 01, 2015, 01:58:49 pm
Strength: -1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -1
Intuition: -1
Mind: +2
Fate: 0
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: -1
Unconventional Weapons: 0
Exotic Weapons: +2
Auxiliary Systems: 0
Medical Tech: -1
General Knowledge: -1
Post by: Nikitian on April 01, 2015, 02:02:08 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 01, 2015, 02:55:45 pm
Spoiler: Start (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Missions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Leveled (click to show/hide)
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 01, 2015, 03:03:02 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 01, 2015, 03:14:46 pm
Han has been updated for the new system, and is hiding on page 16.There's no page 16. Largest page is 7.
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2015, 03:17:53 pm
Gird yourselves, men and women of the 15PPP Legion! A 50PPP agent has been spotted!Han has been updated for the new system, and is hiding on page 16.There's no page 16. Largest page is 7.
Post by: renegadelobster on April 01, 2015, 03:29:11 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 01, 2015, 03:31:09 pm
Spoiler: char creation (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: them level ups though (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on April 01, 2015, 03:32:02 pm
Post by: Knight Otu on April 01, 2015, 03:33:30 pm
Intuition is now a STAT not a skill
Well, that requires a rework then.
Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Missions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gorat "Chin" Ivanos Respec (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nikitian on April 01, 2015, 03:46:14 pm
Spoiler: Dr. M.Sanctor Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dr. M.Sanctor Updated (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2015, 04:33:20 pm
Spoiler: Xan Base (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Xan Updated (click to show/hide)
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 01, 2015, 04:35:50 pm
I think this'll work for me right now, I believe.Spoiler: Xan Base (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Xan Updated (click to show/hide)
Why'd you suddenly go so heavily for med anyways?
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2015, 04:42:38 pm
Also it fits RP-wise in that while Xan might not know all that much (general knowledge -1), due to his experience with shapeshifting he knows stuff about how bodies work.
Don't worry, my motives are completely innocent.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 01, 2015, 04:43:55 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on April 01, 2015, 04:57:48 pm
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2015, 05:08:42 pm
Post by: Hapah on April 01, 2015, 05:25:59 pm
Well yeah, I'm not planning on killing anyone.Yeah, he's just gonna graft them into himself to make Franken-Xan.
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2015, 05:33:49 pm
That's only 20% right.
Post by: kj1225 on April 01, 2015, 09:16:04 pm
Completely changed my sheet.Spoiler: Kyle 2.0, now with more less brain powers. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Empiricist on April 01, 2015, 09:19:21 pm
Code: (Charles Leroux (WIP)) [Select]
Missions: 2 (Ice-9, Assault and Defense of Hephaestus)
Timeskips: 1 (Post-Conquest of Hephaestus [1 Year])
Strength:-2 [-2 initially]
Dexterity:0 [0 initially]
Endurance:0 [0 initially]
Charisma:+3 [+2 initially, 15 points]
Mind: 1 [1 initially]
Fate:0 [0 initially]
Intuition:-2 [-2 initially]
Handiwork:-2 [-2 initially]
Conventional Weapons:2 [2 initially]
Unconventional Weapons:2 [2 initially]
Exotic weapons:-2 [-2 initially]
Auxiliary Systems:+1 [0 initially, 5 points]
Medical Tech:-2 [-2 initially]
General Knowledge:0 [-1 initially, 5 points]
Post by: Yoink on April 01, 2015, 10:07:01 pm
I want to be a smart coward, damnit!
Regardless, working on sheet.
Code: [Select]
Jobasio - initial scores.
Stats
Strength: 0
Dexterity:+1
Endurance: 0
Charisma: 0
Mind: 0
Fate: -1
Intuition: 0
Skills
Handiwork: 0
Conventional Weapons: +2
Unconventional Weapons:
Exotic weapons: -2
Auxiliary Systems: +1
Medical Tech: -2
General Knowledge:0Does that work as my initial character? If so I'll start adding points.
Need to check back through the thread to figure out how many I have to work with...
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 01, 2015, 10:24:02 pm
Final Version of Han:Spoiler: Han Thren Initial (click to show/hide)
Mission 18 Levelup: 5 points into Mind, 5 points into Medical TechSpoiler: Han Thren Final (click to show/hide)
Post by: HavingPhun on April 01, 2015, 10:30:44 pm
Code: [Select]
Ian
Strength: -1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: 0
Charisma: -2
Mind: +2
Fate: 0
Intuition: 0
Handiwork: -1
Conventional: +1
Unconventional: -2
Exotic: +2
Auxiliary: 0
Medical Tech: -1
General Knowledge: 0
Post by: Comrade P. on April 01, 2015, 11:40:51 pm
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 01, 2015, 11:42:43 pm
My character sheet rests on page 3, just sayin'. It is edited according to latest rules, I believe.Ah. But 15ppp or 50ppp?
Post by: Comrade P. on April 01, 2015, 11:47:22 pm
15. If you have 50 posts displayed on page, that would be page 1 for you.My character sheet rests on page 3, just sayin'. It is edited according to latest rules, I believe.Ah. But 15ppp or 50ppp?
Post by: kisame12794 on April 02, 2015, 12:46:18 am
Spoiler: Base (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Lvl'd (click to show/hide)
Khai is no longer a master amper, but he now shoots as well as he amps, so versatility! Yey!
Post by: Corsair on April 02, 2015, 01:35:37 am
Post by: Corsair on April 02, 2015, 01:39:05 am
Re-stat for new system
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2015, 02:15:45 am
Code: (Anton Chernozorov) [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [0] (0 +0)
DEX: [0] (-1 +5)
END: [0] (0 +0)
CHA: [0] (-1 +5)
MIND: [2] (1 +10)
INTU: [1] (1 +5)
FATE: [0] (0 +0)
Conventional___: [0] (0 +0)
Unconventional_: [0] (0 +0)
Exotic_________: [-2](-2 +0)
Handiwork______: [2] (2 +0)
Auxiliary______: [2] (0 +15)
Medical________: [-1](-1 +0)
General________: [1] (0 +5)
Post by: Yoink on April 02, 2015, 03:50:43 am
Hopefully this is all in order. (I probably could have formatted it with the amount of spent points, starting bonuses and total all listed separately, but I only just thought of that and am pretty much at the end of my attention span, so sorry for that.)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dutrius on April 02, 2015, 04:53:58 am
Spoiler: Kai Branden (Base) (click to show/hide)
One mission: (M18) (5 points for skills and stats)
Spoiler: Kai Branden (re-specced) (click to show/hide)
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 02, 2015, 07:10:49 am
Character calculator and wiki templates have been updated to support the intuition change to stats and the new enhanced capacity upgrade.
Also made some changes to the calculator that should make it work better.
(At least for those of you that aren't using Internet Explorer because for some reason the people that developed it have chosen not to implement basic math functions like sign, Microsoft and Bill Gates be damned. I'll try doing a workaround later.)[/rant]
Post by: Nunzillor on April 02, 2015, 09:15:00 am
01010100 01100101 01101011 (Tek) RespecRedone.Spoiler: Base: (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Level up (1 mission): (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 02, 2015, 11:09:46 am
Alright posting Thaddeus' new, reworked sheet for the wiki gnomesSpoiler: Thaddeus (click to show/hide)
Level ups:
3 missions
15 Skill points
15 Stat points
10 WildSpoiler: Thaddeus (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Moved Intuition to Stats, changed the Skills starting character bonus from Exo to Con, and some other minor changes
Skills need one more -1. Please repost when Altered.
Post by: renegadelobster on April 02, 2015, 11:22:19 am
Alright posting Thaddeus' new, reworked sheet for the wiki gnomesSpoiler: Thaddeus (click to show/hide)
Level ups:
3 missions
15 Skill points
15 Stat points
10 WildSpoiler: Thaddeus (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Moved Intuition to Stats, changed the Skills starting character bonus from Exo to Con, and some other minor changes
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 02, 2015, 11:32:44 am
Post by: Nikitian on April 02, 2015, 11:55:27 am
Probably the best approach to handle it visually would be the way profession bonuses were handled in the previous charsheet system (just a catchy letter somewhere pointing out there is a post-sum-bonus), but that is mere suggestion.
Regardless, thanks for your hard work, wiki team!
Post by: Hapah on April 02, 2015, 11:56:26 am
Who are our wiki gnomes, anyway?
Post by: piecewise on April 02, 2015, 12:06:59 pm
Wiki team is best team.AoshimaMichio and Kri both do it, I know that much. Paris and Sy also seem to do a good deal of work on it.
Who are our wiki gnomes, anyway?
Actually, I should start giving in game money for doing work on it. In game we can say they're updating ARM community files for the rest of the team.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 02, 2015, 12:13:59 pm
Wiki team is best team.Also Sword and Paris.
Who are our wiki gnomes, anyway?
Post by: Hapah on April 02, 2015, 12:48:32 pm
Spoiler: Taddok Find, Original (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Taddok Find, Two Missions (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on April 02, 2015, 12:50:55 pm
Post by: Pancaek on April 02, 2015, 12:56:23 pm
Spoiler: pan start (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: pan end: 6 mission + 10 wildpoints (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on April 02, 2015, 12:57:12 pm
Waitwaitwait what is enhanced capacity?I think it was a genemod.
Post by: Xantalos on April 02, 2015, 01:02:13 pm
And yeah it works on IE now too.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 02, 2015, 01:14:55 pm
Okay, since now the NSkills/NStats templates are corrected (why butcher perfectly fine charsheet, by the way? I knew which variables were there, and prepared beforehand in the source! Preposterous! :P ), can we now please please have the "post-upgraded bonus" column or designation or something? Because now that it is officially in the armory, it might be not so uncommon to see it, and adding the bonus equivalent in points is ugly.Aha, I have already done that actually. If you try editing them, you'll notice a variable named Enhanced<Skill> . See here (Intuition) for an example: http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Einsteinian_Roulette_Wiki:Sandbox
Probably the best approach to handle it visually would be the way profession bonuses were handled in the previous charsheet system (just a catchy letter somewhere pointing out there is a post-sum-bonus), but that is mere suggestion.
Regardless, thanks for your hard work, wiki team!
Of course, now that Lenglon took a negative because of an action I'm going to have to rework it to allow bonuses different than +1 and change the (E) into something like (+1).
Ah, I see.Good to hear.
And yeah it works on IE now too.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 02, 2015, 01:18:55 pm
Post by: Nikitian on April 02, 2015, 01:28:34 pm
Ah, good. Thank you!Okay, since now the NSkills/NStats templates are corrected (why butcher perfectly fine charsheet, by the way? I knew which variables were there, and prepared beforehand in the source! Preposterous! :P ), can we now please please have the "post-upgraded bonus" column or designation or something? Because now that it is officially in the armory, it might be not so uncommon to see it, and adding the bonus equivalent in points is ugly.Aha, I have already done that actually. If you try editing them, you'll notice a variable named Enhanced<Skill> . See here (Intuition) for an example: http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Einsteinian_Roulette_Wiki:Sandbox
Probably the best approach to handle it visually would be the way profession bonuses were handled in the previous charsheet system (just a catchy letter somewhere pointing out there is a post-sum-bonus), but that is mere suggestion.
Regardless, thanks for your hard work, wiki team!
Of course, now that Lenglon took a negative because of an action I'm going to have to rework it to allow bonuses different than +1 and change the (E) into something like (+1).
Post by: Kriellya on April 02, 2015, 01:57:24 pm
Spoiler: Skylar (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yoink on April 02, 2015, 02:15:19 pm
Fakeedit: Actually, hold on, might as well repost it even if it was just a page ago. Here.
Spoiler: Jobasio Hootzal (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 02, 2015, 02:20:23 pm
Might I ask our dear, tireless Wiki Gnomes if my sheet was correct and in order?
Fakeedit: Actually, hold on, might as well repost it even if it was just a page ago. Here.Spoiler: Jobasio Hootzal (click to show/hide)
I didn't complain about it so it probably was ok. Did you change anything just now?
Post by: Yoink on April 02, 2015, 02:24:04 pm
Post by: Tavik Toth on April 02, 2015, 02:36:38 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 02, 2015, 05:33:15 pm
Spoiler: char creation (click to show/hide)Spoiler: them level ups though (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on April 02, 2015, 06:28:28 pm
Post by: Nunzillor on April 02, 2015, 08:56:15 pm
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 02, 2015, 09:13:16 pm
"Main" wiki gnomes are Aoshima and myself, with Kriellya and RC updating less often, syvarris updating the Heph page(s), and Paris, who did the wiki templates.Wiki team is best team.AoshimaMichio and Kri both do it, I know that much. Paris and Sy also seem to do a good deal of work on it.
Who are our wiki gnomes, anyway?
Actually, I should start giving in game money for doing work on it. In game we can say they're updating ARM community files for the rest of the team.
Post by: Xantalos on April 02, 2015, 09:15:35 pm
Post by: Kriellya on April 02, 2015, 11:17:02 pm
Redoing because now manips might require some med.Spoiler: char creation (click to show/hide)Spoiler: them level ups though (click to show/hide)
Now now, they only *require* med if you want to not melt your poor, innocent brain. I mean, as PW said, you could always just ask the medic to check for you :P
Post by: Persus13 on April 03, 2015, 10:02:01 pm
Spoiler: Redone stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on April 04, 2015, 02:22:46 am
Spoiler: Jason Caldwell (click to show/hide)
Post by: Illgeo on April 05, 2015, 06:44:39 am
Spoiler: Bartholomew starting: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bartholomew after a mission: (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nikitian on April 05, 2015, 06:59:33 am
Yeah, it's good. Welcome to ER 2nd ed.!
Post by: Wolfkit on April 05, 2015, 10:53:53 am
Code: [Select]
Strength: +1
Dexterity: 0
Endurance: +1
Charisma: -1
Mind: 0
Intuition: -1
Fate:0
Strength: +1
Dexterity: +1 [5]
Endurance: +1
Charisma: -1
Mind: 0
Intuition: -1
Fate:0
Post by: Toaster on April 06, 2015, 08:57:04 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 06, 2015, 09:10:27 am
Finally finished Lars.Noted and recorded.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 06, 2015, 10:23:04 am
Post by: Toaster on April 06, 2015, 11:03:00 am
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 12:53:26 pm
Have you asked if Lars' Fate bonus counts as an initial +1 or a +1 similar to the one given by the enhanced capacity? Because if it's the second one, then you could get some extra points in there....what's the difference? I don't even know what that does now that I think about it.
Post by: Nikitian on April 06, 2015, 01:00:19 pm
Well, if it's an initial +1,it saves about 5 to 10 points in the long run. If it's a post-sum +1, it saves up to 20 (or possibly more, but that heads in the realm of 'unpractical') points in the long run.Have you asked if Lars' Fate bonus counts as an initial +1 or a +1 similar to the one given by the enhanced capacity? Because if it's the second one, then you could get some extra points in there....what's the difference? I don't even know what that does now that I think about it.
Guess why people are so excited about "Enhanced Capacity" upgrade - it is gives a post-sum +1 to one chosen skill/stat.
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 01:10:25 pm
HOW MANY TOKEN
SUCH EFFICIENCY
Post by: Toaster on April 06, 2015, 02:43:34 pm
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 02:45:53 pm
Post by: Kriellya on April 06, 2015, 02:50:34 pm
Hell, you might lose 1 in every stat! "The beyond that granted this preacher more fate punishes you for your gluttony! You get -1 to everything, after summation!"
HOW MANY TOKEN
SUCH EFFICIENCY
It is the bargain price of 10 tokens, but you can only one version of it at a time. It's also a genemod, so it goes against your genemod limit, which is based on END.
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 03:04:06 pm
I think I can ... hmm. Depends on some things, I guess.
Post by: Kriellya on April 06, 2015, 03:57:35 pm
........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I think I can ... hmm. Depends on some things, I guess.
Oh? What things?
I'm really looking forward to PW foiling your plans, whatever they may be. :P
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 03:58:36 pm
Figure it this way, if I fail at what I'm eventually planning to do you'll know it.
Post by: Beirus on April 06, 2015, 09:12:47 pm
Pfft, like I'd actually reveal my plans until I'm done them :PSo will everyone left on the remaining half of the ship. Before the vacuum kills them, anyway.
Figure it this way, if I fail at what I'm eventually planning to do you'll know it.
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 09:21:29 pm
I think.
Post by: Kriellya on April 06, 2015, 09:31:56 pm
It's not that bad!
I think.
It's always that bad.
*grabs his MkIII*
Post by: Xantalos on April 06, 2015, 09:36:41 pm
Possibly in fascinated horror, but watching me nonetheless.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on April 07, 2015, 01:21:11 am
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 01:28:41 am
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 07, 2015, 01:52:41 am
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 01:54:14 am
Post by: Empiricist on April 07, 2015, 05:34:29 am
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 07, 2015, 12:40:38 pm
They're genetically engineered microbes. I have a feeling they won't grey goo too easily.Did you go on the sharkmist planetoid mission and/or read it?
Post by: Caellath on April 07, 2015, 06:05:21 pm
Spoiler: Milno's Respec / Updated Stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kriellya on April 07, 2015, 06:12:31 pm
I suppose it's about time I do this. I'm still thinking things over, but what's certainly not going to change is that Milno's keeping at least a +3 in Will.Spoiler: Milno's Respec / Updated Stats (click to show/hide)
Hrmm. Has something gone wrong with the <code> flag on this forum? It seems to be a big fan of forcing code into that tiny scroll box right now, which I don't remember it doing...
Anyway, I'm uploading this to the wiki now. Welcome to the new system, Milno :P
Relatedly, have you asked PW how some of your old bonus's are getting handled? You have quite a few of them, and I have no idea how they work in the new system.
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 06:16:58 pm
Post by: Kriellya on April 07, 2015, 06:18:50 pm
Post by: Kriellya on April 07, 2015, 06:26:15 pm
Xan, tell me how these examples look.
Code: (Garbage) [Select]
This is a test.
it doesn't do anything special.
it might have colored words.
If we had better bbcode.
vs.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
vs.
Code: [Select]
I'm
just
trying
to
trigger
the
scrollbox
with
out
using
a
spoiler.
It
takes
way
more
lines
to
accomplish
this
for
some
reason.
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 06:29:34 pm
Post by: Kriellya on April 07, 2015, 07:52:09 pm
First one has no scroll bar, second one's scrolling as shit, third one only scrolls slightly.
Alright, cool.
What have we learned today? Don't put <code> tags inside spoilers, it freaks out about them XD
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 07, 2015, 08:06:04 pm
@Caellath: You might be interested in an enhanced capacity genemod. Only 10 tokens for a +1.
Post by: Empiricist on April 07, 2015, 08:13:02 pm
Yep, Steve stated that they were genetically engineered microbes in the mission debriefing.They're genetically engineered microbes. I have a feeling they won't grey goo too easily.Did you go on the sharkmist planetoid mission and/or read it?
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 08:15:21 pm
Looks fine in Firefox. Might be a problem with IE.I'm viewing them on Safari right now, so it might be something with Firefox that makes it readable.
@Caellath: You might be interested in an enhanced capacity genemod. Only 10 tokens for a +1.
Post by: Persus13 on April 07, 2015, 11:09:48 pm
Looks fine in Firefox. Might be a problem with IE.I use IE and I only saw a scroll bar in the third one. Caeleth's post didn't have scrollbar either.
@Caellath: You might be interested in an enhanced capacity genemod. Only 10 tokens for a +1.
Post by: Kriellya on April 07, 2015, 11:15:43 pm
Looks fine in Firefox. Might be a problem with IE.I use IE and I only saw a scroll bar in the third one. Caeleth's post didn't have scrollbar either.
@Caellath: You might be interested in an enhanced capacity genemod. Only 10 tokens for a +1.
... So it's a problem in everything *but* IE?
Madness. Looks like the problem is worst in Chrome, where it compresses spoilered code down to 1 line, with scroll bars. Any other browsers have that issue?
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 07, 2015, 11:27:34 pm
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 11:37:23 pm
Post by: Kriellya on April 07, 2015, 11:40:30 pm
...No, I'm only getting a scrollbar on the third as well. I'm using Chrome.
Hrm. Maybe it's an issue in *my* chrome. Cause my chrome is demonstrably insane about many things.
Post by: Xantalos on April 07, 2015, 11:43:44 pm
Post by: SkyMarshal on April 08, 2015, 12:04:11 am
Post by: Kriellya on April 08, 2015, 12:10:04 am
It may also vary based on the forum theme. Viewing it with Chrome and the Darkling theme results in only the third box having a scroll bar. (This is on a 1920x1080 monitor, mind.)
Hrm. I can confirm this. It does not work correctly on the default theme on chrome. And only on chrome.
I love BBCode...
Now back to our regularly scheduled program of respecs, and not discussing buggy forum code.
Post by: SkyMarshal on April 08, 2015, 12:13:50 am
Post by: Tavik Toth on April 08, 2015, 02:30:38 pm
I actually posted recently in this tread after that.And I responded, asking you what kind of play-style you want out of your character. Conventional, Unconventional, Auxiliary? Swords? Pimp canes? Also, probably best to provide your answer in the appropriate thread.Just don't blow it up or you will end up owning me 11 tokens.Why am I marked as inactive?
Heyo tavik! Mind lending your APC to protect the squishy noobs on the ground mission? :P
Also, stuck trying to figure out how to spread out the respec points. I did ask for help in the respec thread but it seems people missed it.
You hadn't posted in a few days and you weren't going on any mission so I just marked you as inactive. Like I said, I was very aggressive with my marking, so anybody that hadn't posted an action in the last week or so and wasn't going on a mission was marked as inactive.
And I'm just trying to get it as close to the pre-respec sheet which is on the wiki but I'm a bit unsure how to spread the points out to do so.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 08, 2015, 02:43:15 pm
And other than giving you some more points in Aux, both because it was in your old sheet and because MK3s now have a skill requirement, I can only do the same, divide your points equally to all your skills.
Post by: Tavik Toth on April 08, 2015, 03:17:36 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 08, 2015, 03:24:16 pm
You should ask piecewise in the on ship thread what's going to happen with your katana bonus if you still want it.
Post by: Kriellya on April 08, 2015, 03:57:00 pm
Dividing equally sounds like a good idea.
Okay then, I'll do it later, unless somebody else does it.I'll update it now. I'm going to 'preference' your slightly stronger skills, and put your stat points exclusively in the 'old' stats, as you otherwise would have no bonuses
You should ask piecewise in the on ship thread what's going to happen with your katana bonus if you still want it.
I may also randomly give you +1 aux -1 handi, depending on how the numbers play out.
Edit: Hrrm. Both of your strongest skills after Aux are no longer skills. Awkward... Uhh.... Hmm.
Post by: Kriellya on April 08, 2015, 04:09:16 pm
Stealing Sean's formatting...
Code: (Jack Hansan) [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [1] (0 +5)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [1] (0 +5)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [0] (0 +0)
Conventional___: [1] (0 +5)
Unconventional_: [1] (0 +5)
Exotic_________: [0] (0 +0)
Handiwork______: [0] (-1 +5)
Auxiliary______: [1] (+1 +5)
Medical________: [0] (0 +0)
General________: [1] (0 +5)So many +1's XD
Post by: Tavik Toth on April 08, 2015, 06:18:29 pm
Alright Tavik, here is the sheet I put up for Jack on the wiki. I randomly gave you the +1/-1 that corresponded to your old profession. Cause I like how that flows better when I'm inventing backstories for the new stats :PThanks!
Stealing Sean's formatting...Code: (Jack Hansan) [Select][Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [1] (0 +5)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [1] (0 +5)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [0] (0 +0)
Conventional___: [1] (0 +5)
Unconventional_: [1] (0 +5)
Exotic_________: [0] (0 +0)
Handiwork______: [0] (-1 +5)
Auxiliary______: [1] (+1 +5)
Medical________: [0] (0 +0)
General________: [1] (0 +5)
So many +1's XD
Post by: NAV on April 13, 2015, 05:27:36 pm
A total of 30 stat, 30 skill, and 10 wildcard.
Here's a new sheet with increased conventional and auxiliary.
Code: [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [1] (0 +5)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [1] (0 +5)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [0] (0 +0)
Conventional___: [2] (0 +15)
Unconventional_: [1] (0 +5)
Exotic_________: [0] (0 +0)
Handiwork______: [0] (-1 +5)
Auxiliary______: [2] (+1 +10)
Medical________: [0] (0 +0)
General________: [1] (0 +5)Is this okay?
Post by: Kriellya on April 13, 2015, 05:41:10 pm
Yo, Tavik, you have some extra points from the boarding, timeskip, and mission 9.Alright, I missed that he'd been on the double-mission and the ship assault due to formatting issues. Yay. Wiki reformatting incoming sometime this week...
A total of 30 stat, 30 skill, and 10 wildcard.
Here's a new sheet with increased conventional and auxiliary.
snip
Is this okay?
I would say that, in keeping with the original build, it should be +5 in every stat, and +10 in con instead of +15. Up to Tavik, though.
Code: (So, for the record, my modification would look like this.) [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [1] (0 +5)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [1] (0 +5)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [1] (0 +5)
Conventional___: [1] (0 +10)
Unconventional_: [1] (0 +5)
Exotic_________: [0] (0 +0)
Handiwork______: [0] (-1 +5)
Auxiliary______: [2] (+1 +10)
Medical________: [0] (0 +0)
General________: [1] (0 +5)
Post by: Unholy_Pariah on April 14, 2015, 05:34:32 am
Code: [Select]
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [2] (1 +10)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [-1] (-1 +0)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
Handiwork________: [0] (0 +0)
Conventional_____: [-1] (-1 +0)
Unconventional___: [2] (1 +10)
Exotic devices___: [-2] (-2 +0)
Auxiliary tech___: [3] (2 +15)
Medical tech___: [0] (0 +0)
General knowledge___: [-1] (-1 +0)
Hey guys who tweaked the rules with piecewise, how would i need to tweak my sheet in order to bump my Aux to +3 without losing my +2 to uncon? Remember i have 25 standard and 10 bonus points.
Left my computer at my friends house and deciphering it on my phone just feels difficult for some reason.
Edit:swapped spoiler for code becausd it does retarded things to formatting.
Post by: Xantalos on April 14, 2015, 05:37:44 am
...
Oh no, I see how it's formatted. Never mind, I dunno.
Post by: Nikitian on April 14, 2015, 09:33:19 am
Well, I'd suggest picking two extra -1s to some skills (or designating one as "-2" dump stat) and adding an extra +1 to Aux. Now, getting to +3 would require 15 points instead of 10, so you could take 5 points out of Handi and put those in Aux.
Alternatively you could take those 10 bonus points (I see they're spent on stats, which is cool, but YMMV) and the same 5 points from Handi and put the 15 points into Aux, bringing it from +2 to +3.
Post by: Tavik Toth on April 14, 2015, 10:06:20 am
Like Kri's one better.Yo, Tavik, you have some extra points from the boarding, timeskip, and mission 9.Alright, I missed that he'd been on the double-mission and the ship assault due to formatting issues. Yay. Wiki reformatting incoming sometime this week...
A total of 30 stat, 30 skill, and 10 wildcard.
Here's a new sheet with increased conventional and auxiliary.
snip
Is this okay?
I would say that, in keeping with the original build, it should be +5 in every stat, and +10 in con instead of +15. Up to Tavik, though.Code: (So, for the record, my modification would look like this.) [Select][Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [1] (0 +5)
DEX: [1] (0 +5)
END: [1] (0 +5)
CHA: [1] (0 +5)
MIND: [1] (0 +5)
INTU: [1] (0 +5)
FATE: [1] (0 +5)
Conventional___: [1] (0 +10)
Unconventional_: [1] (0 +5)
Exotic_________: [0] (0 +0)
Handiwork______: [0] (-1 +5)
Auxiliary______: [2] (+1 +10)
Medical________: [0] (0 +0)
General________: [1] (0 +5)
Post by: Kriellya on April 14, 2015, 01:40:50 pm
Like Kri's one better.Yo, Tavik, you have some extra points from the boarding, timeskip, and mission 9.Alright, I missed that he'd been on the double-mission and the ship assault due to formatting issues. Yay. Wiki reformatting incoming sometime this week...
A total of 30 stat, 30 skill, and 10 wildcard.
Here's a new sheet with increased conventional and auxiliary.
snip
Is this okay?
I would say that, in keeping with the original build, it should be +5 in every stat, and +10 in con instead of +15. Up to Tavik, though.
*snipsnip*
Alright, it has been updated to the wiki. Thanks for catching my mistake, NAV.
Post by: Unholy_Pariah on April 15, 2015, 04:49:03 am
@Unholy_Pariahchanged my exo from -1 to -2 and tacked a -1 onto G.knowledge then moved my+5 handi over to Aux, that works right?
Well, I'd suggest picking two extra -1s to some skills (or designating one as "-2" dump stat) and adding an extra +1 to Aux. Now, getting to +3 would require 15 points instead of 10, so you could take 5 points out of Handi and put those in Aux.
Alternatively you could take those 10 bonus points (I see they're spent on stats, which is cool, but YMMV) and the same 5 points from Handi and put the 15 points into Aux, bringing it from +2 to +3.
Post by: Kriellya on April 15, 2015, 05:03:18 am
@Unholy_Pariahchanged my exo from -1 to -2 and tacked a -1 onto G.knowledge then moved my+5 handi over to Aux, that works right?
Well, I'd suggest picking two extra -1s to some skills (or designating one as "-2" dump stat) and adding an extra +1 to Aux. Now, getting to +3 would require 15 points instead of 10, so you could take 5 points out of Handi and put those in Aux.
Alternatively you could take those 10 bonus points (I see they're spent on stats, which is cool, but YMMV) and the same 5 points from Handi and put the 15 points into Aux, bringing it from +2 to +3.
If the wiki says it's +3, then yeah, it works :P
Post by: Nikitian on April 15, 2015, 08:10:25 am
Post by: Harry Baldman on April 15, 2015, 03:49:00 pm
Spoiler: Chief's New Sheet, Initial (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Chief's New Sheet, 1 Mission (click to show/hide)
That should be all correct, should it not? I tried putting in the new templates in the wiki myself, but it seems mildly more involved than just putting in NStats and NSkills, with separate data sources and whatnot if I'm reading the already done sheets correctly, so I've elected to let a gnome do it instead so as to not screw up the established formatting habits.
EDIT: Never mind, added the stats anyway. The difference between mine and, say, Flint's seems practically negligible.
Post by: Nikitian on April 15, 2015, 03:57:53 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 15, 2015, 07:33:03 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 19, 2015, 09:07:35 pm
Code: (Steve Saint) [Select]
[Final] (Initial +points)
STR: [-2] (-2 +0)
DEX: [-1] (-1 +0)
END: [0] (0 +0)
CHA: [2] (2 +0)
MIND: [2] (0 +15)
INTU:[-1] (-1 +0)
FATE: [1] (1 +0)
Conventional___: [-2] (-2 +0)
Unconventional_: [-2] (-2 +0)
Exotic_________: [2] (2 +0)
Handiwork______: [-2] (-2 +0)
Auxiliary______: [2] (2 +0)
Medical________: [1] (0 +5)
General________: [-1] (-1 +0)
Post by: Nikitian on April 20, 2015, 01:11:55 am
(Also, I am fine with your stat distribution. For a vaulted away person who never takes the field himself and has others (sods) to work for him, I can understand both extreme reluctance (coupled with disastrous unproficiency) to exert force and certain degree of clumsiness; and who needs Intu anyway.)
I can guess that your character intends to be an amp-user (organo-amp even, presumably), and that charismatic sociopaths are actually common (maybe; I have no idea besides quick googling) but I don't think you ever really expressed either of these "career paths".
Just curious.
Post by: syvarris on April 20, 2015, 07:16:12 am
This build is actually closer to what I envisioned Saint to be originally, though. He was intended to be charismatic, and originally had points in cha. They were moved to INT when PW said I needed Int to be allowed to continue tinkering, and he let me move them. Saint's actually supposed to be extremely social, and would try to continually keep contact with the other Heph staff; The appearance to the contrary is just because nobody RPs on Heph, and because he's done a lot to safeguard his physical location, which people equate to his actual location for some reason.
The skills, admittedly, are mostly -2s because I couldn't easily take points from elsewhere. Lowering stats is much more likely to kill Saint than lowering skills, and as I said before, I gave too much 'need' stuff. Handi, for instance, should probably be at least +0 (although I don't imagine Saint using handi for tinkering; He'd use aux.)
Oh, and IIRC, sociopaths are generally more charismatic than the average person. It isn't difficult to fake empathy, and the lack of remorse makes manipulating people more palatable. Plus, most sociopaths would disguise their disorder, and therefore have practice at being manipulative. Of course, what exactly 'sociopath' even means varies greatly, even more than most psychological disorders (technically, it isn't a recognized disorder anymore, for good reason). When I use the term, I'm talking about a lack of empathy being the primary symptom.
Post by: Nikitian on April 20, 2015, 07:54:22 am
Also, have you considered dropping a single +1 from Med or Exo? Or maybe shifting that +1 from Fate to Mind to free those 5 "bonus" points and, once again, decrease the amount of chargen skill bonuses? It's really staggering at that point how many penalties one has to take for that small extra +1 (which equals only half of a mission level-up, anyway). You could easily come out with 0 Handi and maybe less disastrous Con/Uncon or 0 GeKn. Or just increase all three skill -2s to -1s.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 20, 2015, 08:58:16 am
And if I'm using one of those old dumb thin computer terminal to connect to a mainframe, I do not have the mainframe in front of me, I have a terminal. If I smash the terminal, the mainframe will continue to operate. When I'm Skyping with someone, I do not have them in front of me, I have a computer showing me an image of them. If I see someone in a mirror, I'm looking at a mirror, not at them. So you are still with your brain, regardless of where you are accessing using telepresence.
If you used that distributed brain genemod to start splitting your brain up, then that would make where you are open to debate
Post by: syvarris on April 20, 2015, 10:36:05 am
MED has five skillpoints which I can't put anywhere else, so I'm not changing that, and EXO needs to be at 2 to use a dominator amp.
I'm not changing Fate either, because PW likes threatening me more than anyone else. With reason, of course; I certainly am the most prolific tinkerer.
@Paris
The increased capacity mod, and distributed neurology mod, are both very good ideas. Thank you!
I do disagree with your point that you location is the location of your brain. Yes, literally 'you' are just electrochemical signals traveling through it, and therefore are always where your brain is, but I'm not being literal. You know how someone who's so intensely focused on a task that they don't notice what's going on around them, is said to be 'somewhere else', even if they're in the same room as you? Saint, when possessing a body, is fully focused on that location, and only aware of it. You could be standing next to his brain jumping up and down while screaming, but you won't be noticed because he's somewhere else.
Besides, the semantics is irrelevant--my point is that even if Saint's brain is locked miles below the surface, he can (and would, if we roleplayed) spend more time personally interacting with people than anyone else, because he can essentially teleport to someone if needed. People just assume Saint tries to stay an invisible AI in the backround, controlling things through impersonal electronic orders, and that kinda annoys me.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 20, 2015, 10:42:41 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 20, 2015, 10:45:16 am
Post by: syvarris on April 20, 2015, 10:50:19 am
Yeah, once the Doc lets go of Anton and Maurice. I'm terrified of the Doc, and Saint doesn't trust him, so... definitely not interrupting.
Oh, a question I've been meaning to ask you in forever but always forget: Those discussions we sometimes have about our military hardware, whether it's robosods or tanks, are those considered to be mimiced in-character? I.E, Does Miyamoto talk with Saint and others about that stuff when he's not on-mission or jumping, or do the characters just arbitrarily come to the conclusion we decide on OOC?
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 20, 2015, 10:52:41 am
@Radio
Yeah, once the Doc lets go of Anton and Maurice. I'm terrified of the Doc, and Saint doesn't trust him, so... definitely not interrupting.
Oh, a question I've been meaning to ask you in forever but always forget: Those discussions we sometimes have about our military hardware, whether it's robosods or tanks, are those considered to be mimiced in-character? I.E, Does Miyamoto talk with Saint and others about that stuff when he's not on-mission or jumping, or do the characters just arbitrarily come to the conclusion we decide on OOC?
I'd say the first one, makes most sense I think. I imagine him just teleconferencing to discuss things with Hep people, like a weekly meeting or whatever. Unless there's a specific reason you'd think otherwise?
Post by: Grunhill on December 14, 2015, 07:35:38 pm
In total, Renen has 6 missions + time skip + space battle.
Stats
St 0
Dex 10
End 5
Cha 0
Mind 10
Fate 5
int 0
Skills
Hnd 0
Con 0
Uncon 30
Exo 0
Aux 0
Med 0
Gen 5
Post by: Nunzillor on December 14, 2015, 07:56:19 pm
Post by: Grunhill on December 14, 2015, 07:59:00 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Post by: Nunzillor on December 14, 2015, 08:02:56 pm
Post by: NAV on December 14, 2015, 08:04:24 pm
Post by: Grunhill on December 14, 2015, 08:44:24 pm
Stats
St 0
Dex 15 - lvl 2
End 5 - lvl 1
Cha 0
Mind 10 - lvl 1
Fate 5 - lvl 1
int 0
Skills
Hnd 0
Con 0
Uncon 30 - Lvl 3
Exo 0
Aux 0
Med 0
Gen 5 - Lvl 1
Is that correct?
Also... any complete mission is 5 points for Stats and skills... and can be distributed for each, right?
Post by: Toaster on December 14, 2015, 08:58:58 pm
Post by: Grunhill on December 14, 2015, 09:11:54 pm
Edit: Changed one word... was a typo
Post by: NAV on December 14, 2015, 09:14:34 pm
Post by: Grunhill on December 14, 2015, 09:17:34 pm
Thanks guys.
Post by: NAV on December 14, 2015, 09:31:04 pm
Post by: Xantalos on December 15, 2015, 12:17:00 am