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Author Topic: When Kickstarter goes wrong?  (Read 485948 times)

alway

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #525 on: April 19, 2012, 05:41:56 pm »

Does he not understand that no level cap means eventually everything in the game will be completely trivial?  Or maybe things will get strong with you, in which case raising your level is barely meaningful except in godstomping other players who won't want to fight you?
No, everything levels with you; then it goes to space!

*puts on npc voice* Collect 50 space-bear asses from the level 10000 space-bears near my space-house! They are eating my space-pumpkins, and we can't have that, now can we, level 10005 space-hero?

It's like he takes terrible ideas and tries to somehow make them worse.
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Skyrunner

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #526 on: April 19, 2012, 05:43:26 pm »

Does he not understand that no level cap means eventually everything in the game will be completely trivial?  Or maybe things will get strong with you, in which case raising your level is barely meaningful except in godstomping other players who won't want to fight you?

Or maybe levels do NOTHING except prestige.

Does he not understand that no level cap means eventually everything in the game will be completely trivial?  Or maybe things will get strong with you, in which case raising your level is barely meaningful except in godstomping other players who won't want to fight you?
No, everything levels with you; then it goes to space!
^^^This. That's what I think it does.


I know this game called Dungeon and Fighters Online, and it has the best PVP I've ever seen. Completely balanced, 2d, arcade-style, and perhaps the best marriage of arcade and MMORPG I've seen.

Limited to Korea, though. The US version lags like hell.
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Neonivek

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #527 on: April 19, 2012, 05:44:27 pm »

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leisuresuitlarry/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again?ref=live

I tried playing the originals, but I hate the sierra-style games.

Ehhh I love Sierra style

But do you hate Sierra style or do you hate the dumb stuff Sierra often did? There is a difference

It reminds me when someone said that Point and Click adventure games were horrible because they are based off of non-sense moon logic puzzles. Then proceeded to point to that article on Gabriel Knight 3 (which sucked by the way... and I knew that before I played the game).

I like Death filled point and click adventures... Which is to me what is at the heart of Sierra style. Unwinnable situations is a genuin flaw that I consider not to be part of Sierra style.

As for this

I'd rather Revive Kings Quest or even Laura Bow...
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Draco18s

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #528 on: April 19, 2012, 05:50:55 pm »

I'd like to see how he deals with an unlimited level cap and 64 bit integers.  Oh, sure, that is 9,223,372,036,854,775,807, but it's still a limit.
(Twice that, if you make it a 64 bit unsigned integer).
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Skyrunner

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #529 on: April 19, 2012, 05:54:11 pm »

I suppose you could do something fancy and break the level apart into two integers...

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Yannanth

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« Reply #530 on: April 19, 2012, 05:56:34 pm »

.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 05:47:22 pm by Yannanth »
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Sensei

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #531 on: April 19, 2012, 06:28:30 pm »

Yeah, there's a lot of evidence that Bartlett doesn't understand the technical side of... well, all things gaming.  Probably the most concrete evidence of this is his assertion that all content and world information from the beta will be kept when the game goes live.
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Neonivek

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #532 on: April 19, 2012, 06:30:09 pm »

Yeah, there's a lot of evidence that Bartlett doesn't understand the technical side of... well, all things gaming.  Probably the most concrete evidence of this is his assertion that all content and world information from the beta will be kept when the game goes live.

Its odd but a part of me is sort of rooting for this to work. I mean it is insane and won't work in a thousand years...

But wouldn't it be awsome?
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Skyrunner

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #533 on: April 19, 2012, 06:34:09 pm »

Ooh, you know that if you make the level XP graph even marginally exponential, you'll never have people get to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807, so no worries there.

Even D&D-style (XP for next level = 1000 x level) is steep enough.
On second thought, it isn't.
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nenjin

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #534 on: April 19, 2012, 06:44:21 pm »

I'd give some bodily appendage for someone to try and kick-start a Mordheim PC game. I think some thread I commented in on the Bloodbowl forums is still like one of the top Google results for "Mordheim" "PC game."

But that'll never happen, unless GWS collectively develops dementia and decides to try Kickstarter themselves.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 06:55:33 pm by nenjin »
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Leafsnail

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #535 on: April 19, 2012, 07:01:34 pm »

I don't think people would ever get that high, but you could clearly get people at unassailably high levels.  In a normal MMORPG you're at a disadvantage to someone who trains to the highest level, but the disadvantage has a limit and you can at least get their yourself, wheras here you'd never catch up.
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Skyrunner

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #536 on: April 19, 2012, 07:03:53 pm »

Although I know that man will never read this forum, I think PVPs can be balance slightly if the lower leveled character gets a damage adjustment, like DFO.

It works - if you're good enough, a 15th level character can utterly destroy a 33rd level one. The difference is significant, considering the max level is 70, will always be 70, and usually more than 5 level's difference causes instant pwnage.
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kaijyuu

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #537 on: April 19, 2012, 07:10:26 pm »

I'm a fan of level caps for those sort of games. No matter how dedicated, there comes a point in every grinder's life where the mountain in front of them is just plain too much to climb. That's the point where they quit.
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Sowelu

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #538 on: April 19, 2012, 07:13:57 pm »

I'm a fan of level caps for those sort of games. No matter how dedicated, there comes a point in every grinder's life where the mountain in front of them is just plain too much to climb. That's the point where they quit.

Clearly, you've never played Aardwolf MUD.


Clarification:  You go up to level 200.  (Individual levels aren't too long; maybe an hour once you're pretty high up there and not playing all hardcore.)
Once you reach level 200, you can remort, and become two classes at once:  A level 200 fighter can become a level 1 fighter/mage.
You can continue this process for all 7(?) classes.  Each remort increases your XP requirement per level by 1x:  So a 3x remort needs 3x experience.
Once you have remorted into all classes, you can tier:  Characters start at tier 0, and when they advance to tier 1, they are once again a level 1 single-class...but they get to assign some permanent stat-point-buy discounts, and get access to all their skills ten levels earlier and can wear equipment ten levels earlier, and probably get some bonus to-hit/damage as well.  I don't remember what this does to your XP requirement.
Once you hit tier 9 and fully remort, you can still play around with shenanigans like dumping your levels into stat boosts or more HP or whatever instead.

This whole time, you can do quests every half hour, which earn you quest points that you can dump into special quest equipment.  (Quests are 'This is the name of a monster, this is the area it's in; kill it within a half hour'.)  You can also do a campaign every level, which usually slows down your OMG MUST LEVEL FASTER experience but breaks things up a bit.  (Campaigns are a series of multiple, harder quests that you have a few hours to complete, for a large bonus.  And can do in parallel with normal quests.)

For reference, if you play all the way through, and you play all hardcore and only take a half hour per level, you are gaining 14000 levels over a course of 292 days of solid play (assuming you never sleep or take a break to socialize).

There is not a shortage of tiered players.  Most people who have played for even a little bit are T1 or T2 or something.  Back when I still played, there were quite a few T9s.

...I want to play again.  GODDAMMIT.  (I only got up to my first remort.  Cleric/ranger centaur I think?  Yeah I got like a level per two hours.  I idled a lot.)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 07:32:03 pm by Sowelu »
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kaijyuu

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Re: When Kickstarter goes wrong?
« Reply #539 on: April 19, 2012, 07:49:06 pm »

Ah, one of those reincarnation system thingies.


Yeah those work well. Kingdom of Loathing's another one like that, where you get spells and equipment every time you start over.



The problematic systems are the ones where the amount of playtime before seeing any reward gets so ludicrous that no one in their right mind would try it. Then it gets bad enough that people not in their right mind don't try for it either. Maple Story's like this I believe (though I hear they keep nerfing the curve).
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.
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