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[Mudcrab]

They're remaking Baldur's Gate, actually.

Somehow, that fills me more with dread than anticipation.  It's like being told that someone's exhuming your favorite grandparent and they're going to try to make her into a cyborg stripper.

Hahhaaaaa, lol

[nenjin]

D3. While the minecarts have certainly been a cool addition, they don't make up a significant chunk of new content, to the point where I feel like I need to start a fortress.

But they'll sure make the next fortress I start more interesting, and probably long-term.

[NW_Kohaku]

I have a fear that they'll remake it just like they did with Fallout. Ignore everything that made the game great except for the most superficial surface parts and cram it into an engine that isn't really a RPG engine.

Really?  I didn't care for Fallout 2 or Fallout Tactics, but I thought Fallout 3 was one of the best games I've ever played.

I would guess, then, that you're more a fan of FPS or more action-oriented games in general than tactical turn-based games. 

I enjoy Elder Scrolls, and I could enjoy Fallout 3 as "Elder Scrolls in a vaguely Fallout universe", but I really love the old tactical turn-based games. 

There was no point in making it a "Fallout" game, though, since the people who would really come to the game because of being an FPS are people who didn't like the first few Fallouts in the first place, and the people who did would just be pissed off that you took their franchise "away from them".  You could have just started out with a whole new storyline with just as much effort.  It's not like there aren't a ton of other post-apocalyptic wastelands out there in the genre.

But that's really what this thread boils down to (DRM stuff aside) - DF and Diablo are radically different types of games.  Look at that thread about the three things people play DF for, and then look at Diablo - where in Diablo are you going to be able to build a giant statue of a dwarf that pisses magma at invaders that makes Constructionists happy?  Where in Diablo is there going to be a giant simulation that you can just sit and watch and enjoy the massive complexities of the world around you? 

Even for the gamists, there's an entirely different game to be enjoyed.  Diablo is both a power gratification game and a slot machine/Skinner Box with its loot drops.  DF is about management and logistics and overcoming obstacles through indirect means. 

We're talking about games that have wholly different appeals to their audiences.  Only a tiny minority will have that rare intersection of tastes where they will both like what Diablo offers and what DF offers, because there isn't anything that both games offer to their audience. 

[dizzyelk]

I have a fear that they'll remake it just like they did with Fallout. Ignore everything that made the game great except for the most superficial surface parts and cram it into an engine that isn't really a RPG engine.

Really?  I didn't care for Fallout 2 or Fallout Tactics, but I thought Fallout 3 was one of the best games I've ever played.

Beyond the whole point of calling it a Fallout game that Kohaku touched on, there's also the problem with the hybrid RPG/FPS engine it was in. Just putting skills and quests in a game isn't enough for a RPG fan like me. And, while I'm not nuts about FPSes, I do enjoy them. However, the gun skills mess up the aiming. One of the things that really annoyed me was missing shots even if they're lined up. The game feels like a FPS, but that just makes the controls feel off. Plus the attributes didn't seem to matter very much. What's the point of playing a character with really low intelligence for RPing purposes if my character functions just like a normal intelligence character? In the first Fallouts, you'd be a grunting moron, unable to communicate, and people would take advantage of you for it. Plus, why do I, as a player, have to squint my eyes looking for a near invisible tripwire if my character has a high perception? It should be outlined for me. The whole point of an RPG is the separation of character from player. If FO3 wasn't called Fallout and was in a true FPS engine, I would have loved it a hell of a lot more. But, since they billed it as an RPG, the engine problems, as well as the boring, forgettable NPCs and stupid quests become a whole lot larger of problems. And that's the fear I have with the remake of Baldur's Gate. I'm afraid they're gonna take one of the best CRPGs and try to "modernize" it and ruin everything that makes a RPG great. Its bad enough I know it'll end up a 4e game, cause that's the most recent D&D.

[Thief^]

I just dropped a $60 check to Tarn into the mail because fuck always online DRM.

I hate this misinformed opinion. It's not "Always Online DRM". It's an online game. The game physically can't be played offline, because it's only a game client for their servers. You don't see people complaining about having to be online to play WoW, do you?

EDIT:
To clarify, I do think DRM that requires you to be always-online to play an otherwise offline game is evil. Diablo 3 isn't DRM'd at all though, you just have a game key and you play online. You don't need the disk in to play, there is no limit to the number of PCs you can install on... etc etc.

[rex mortis]

Why should Diablo 3 be an online game at all? Perhaps I would like to play it alone or on LAN with my brother, as I played Diablo 2. Whether making Diablo 3 an online game helps against piracy or cheaters, I do not care. Diablo 2 I can even keep playing long after Blizzard is gone.

Further, I expect the drop rates and difficulty are at least as badly balanced as Diablo 2. Grinding same monsters and areas over and over again to get decent equipment sucked. And hell difficulty was pretty much impossible for most characters alone. Inventory management was a hell. Lets not discuss the horribly slow leveling at high levels. Fortunately, these problems could be fixed with mods. I do not see that happening in Diablo 3.

Finally, ever since Brood War came out for the original Starcraft, Blizzard has failed all of their attempts at plot development. There is no great story to be seen in Diablo 3. Only thing epic about it would be its level of fail.

I would not play Diablo 3, even if I could get it free and legal.

[snelg]

Probably going to skip diablo 3. This whole online thing with all the problems that it entails is not for me. I don't really care to play with random people and experience horrible lag or getting dropped because unstable connection etc.

I do have a lot of friends playing it so it's kind of too bad not to be able to play with them, but knowing them they're going to get bored soon enough.

Still have diablo 2 on my computer with interesting mods (something else that will be missing in the new game it seems) to keep me busy if I really feel like it.

[Thief^]

Why should Diablo 3 be an online game at all? Perhaps I would like to play it alone or on LAN with my brother, as I played Diablo 2. Whether making Diablo 3 an online game helps against piracy or cheaters, I do not care. Diablo 2 I can even keep playing long after Blizzard is gone.

They are the single most successful games developer. Where exactly do you think they would be going? IIRC they've only just shut down the battle.net servers for Diablo 1, so I'd expect to be able to play D3 for a long time.

Further, I expect the drop rates and difficulty are at least as badly balanced as Diablo 2. Grinding same monsters and areas over and over again to get decent equipment sucked. And hell difficulty was pretty much impossible for most characters alone. Inventory management was a hell. Lets not discuss the horribly slow leveling at high levels. Fortunately, these problems could be fixed with mods. I do not see that happening in Diablo 3.

Wait, are you trying to argue D2 is better because you think D3 will be just as bad? That makes no sense.
In fact, having played it so far, D3 seems pretty well balanced. I haven't had to grind yet. Crafting is now a lot more important, so you can always craft reasonable things instead of trying to grind. If you want the very very best super-rare unique stuff, you could just buy it off the auction house (real money or gold currency, your choice), if you'd prefer not to grind.

Finally, ever since Brood War came out for the original Starcraft, Blizzard has failed all of their attempts at plot development. There is no great story to be seen in Diablo 3. Only thing epic about it would be its level of fail.

You haven't even played it, and you're commenting on its plot?
It's actually quite a decent plot, and I bet you don't believe what happens near the end of act 1!

I would not play Diablo 3, even if I could get it free and legal.

Why are you so determined to argue that it's shit, if you won't play it regardless?

[CodexDraco]

People like to bitch about popular stuff, it makes them feel superior and smart without realizing they are the exact opposite.

Diablo 3 story and lore are pretty good for video game standards and I like the fact that it's optional, it's there for people who care while the people who only want to bash monsters can ignore it easily.

I do hate the fact that I haven't been able to play more than 2 hours uninterrupted since those damn servers won't stay online.

[Delta Foxtrot]

I just dropped a $60 check to Tarn into the mail because fuck always online DRM.

I hate this misinformed opinion. It's not "Always Online DRM". It's an online game. The game physically can't be played offline, because it's only a game client for their servers. You don't see people complaining about having to be online to play WoW, do you?

People view WOW as an MMORPG, while Diablo as a series can be classed as a single player ARPG with a significant optional multiplayer component. You can't play a massively multi-anything without a decent and consistent connection and people understand that. The problem arises when people see what they perceive to be a singleplayer game requiring an always online connection to play. One can argue that Diablo 3 is an online game and thus requires a constant connection, but does it have to be an online game? Why couldn't it be similar to D1&2 and be a singleplayer with optional multiplayer component? As of now, many people have played the singleplayer portion of the game. Would their experience have been lessened if they had been able to play it locally?

[Arbinire]

I honestly will more than likely be passing Diablo 3 over altogether.  In my eyes Torchlight 2 is the true Diablo successor, as it's developed by most of the original Blizzard North team.  I used to be a huge Blizzard fan, but once Bobby Kotick got his greedy, greasy, fat fucking sausage fingers on the company, I just can't bring myself to line his gold trimmed, silk pockets.  I'm sure it's a fun game, as pretty much all shiny and new games are for a month or 2, but I'd rather support artists over industry. 

[Thief^]

I just dropped a $60 check to Tarn into the mail because fuck always online DRM.

I hate this misinformed opinion. It's not "Always Online DRM". It's an online game. The game physically can't be played offline, because it's only a game client for their servers. You don't see people complaining about having to be online to play WoW, do you?

People view WOW as an MMORPG, while Diablo as a series can be classed as a single player ARPG with a significant optional multiplayer component. You can't play a massively multi-anything without a decent and consistent connection and people understand that. The problem arises when people see what they perceive to be a singleplayer game requiring an always online connection to play. One can argue that Diablo 3 is an online game and thus requires a constant connection, but does it have to be an online game? Why couldn't it be similar to D1&2 and be a singleplayer with optional multiplayer component? As of now, many people have played the singleplayer portion of the game. Would their experience have been lessened if they had been able to play it locally?

I'm not going to argue that many people would prefer to be able to play it offline. My only point is that it's not "DRM" that's forcing you to be online to play it, it's just because it's an online game. It's a very important difference, given that DRM has a reputation for screwing up your pc if you look at it funny, and Diablo 3 actually has no DRM (except a CD key that gets tied to your battle.net login).

[JohnieRWilkins]

I never played another Blizzard game again after Diablo 2 made me sick to death of clickfests, and I was tired of RTS claiming to be "strategy".  I don't intend to go back to anything Blizzard ever makes again, unless they decide to start working in genres I actually care about.

Dictionary.com gives strategy to be:
4. a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: a strategy for getting ahead in the world.

StarCraft definitely has strategy. It sounds like you just have no macro~!

[NW_Kohaku]

Dictionary.com gives strategy to be:
4. a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: a strategy for getting ahead in the world.

StarCraft definitely has strategy. It sounds like you just have no macro~!

If you want to go by a broad enough definition, Super Mario Bros. involves "Strategy" because you have to plan to maneuver your character onto floating brick platforms. 

However, that's just a bizarre argument, because you're not going to argue me into liking something I don't like based upon semantics alone.  The fact remains, I'm generally turned off by RTS games, and prefer "strategy" games that involve more of the actual "thinking before you act" type of strategy than spamming a pre-designed formula for troop ratios or macros. 

In fact, the very notion that you can make macros is a pretty good indicator that the game needs to have its interface and gameplay reworked, because any keypress sequence you're punching in often enough to need macros is something that has long since become far too routine.

[NW_Kohaku]

Why should Diablo 3 be an online game at all?

Because they want you to use the Diablo 3 marketplace. 

They get a cut every time you trade items in-game using real money.  They want to force you to play online so that you have to trade items using real money, so that they can get a cut of that money.  (Haha, suckers! You thought you were only paying $60 for that game?)

It's one of those "For-Profit" deals...