Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)  (Read 10834 times)

milo christiansen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Something generic here
    • View Profile
Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« on: January 08, 2014, 06:03:43 pm »

So if you're like me you never gave artifacts much thought aside from making sure to keep a few shells and cut gems around so you don't lose important dwarves, but why leave things to chance? There's a better way!

The first thing to keep in mind about artifacts is the "highest moodable skill". Whenever a dwarf has a strange mood what kind of artifact he makes (or attempts to make) is determined by his highest "moodable" skill (if he has no skill in any of the moodable skills he make a generic "craft" type artifact, not good).
 
Exactly what item is made is picked more-or-less randomly from the list of all items that can be made with the skill in question, but there is one exception: if a dwarf likes one of the objects on the eligible list he will (almost) always make that item.

Good skills:
   Blacksmith is really good, as you will get a piece of furniture made out of valuable metal
   Mason and Miner will give you a piece of stone furniture, also really good particularly if you force the use of valuable metal ores for the stone.
   Weaponsmith gives you an artifact weapon. Awesome!

OK skills:
   Carpenter gives you wood furniture, not as good as the others but still better than a craft.
   Mechanic gives you an artifact mechanism, the usefulness of this is determined by if you feel the need for a really good weapon trap or high value well.
   Armorsmith has far to much of a chance to get one boot or glove, but if you have a guy that likes breastplates or greaves...
   Bonecrafter gives you mostly trinkets, but sometimes you can get something useful (like a pick!).
   Glassmaker once again gives mostly trinkets, but sometimes you can get some really good stuff.

"Bad" skills:
   Bower 66% chance to make something (nearly) useless? I think I'll pass.
   Woodcrafter and stonecrafter give you worthless trinkets, yick.
   Clothier gives you cloth items, and who needs an artifact shirt or bag?
   Engraver just gives you a craft, not worth it.

Note that depending on how you structure your industry it may be worth training otherwise "bad" skills just for the legendary dwarf. This is mostly a consideration for skills that are hard to train like armorsmith and engraver.

Once you decide what kind of artifacts you want to make start training all your "useless" dwarves in those skills, you should only train in one skill per dwarf and only the minimum required to make that skill his highest, for most dwarves dabbling is good enough. If you have to train much beyond dabbling, it is probably a good idea to just skip that dwarf.
It is generally a bad idea to train all the dwarves in your fort in one skill, spread things around a little so you get some variety.

The best way to train a skill is to set a repeat job using that skill in a workshop that only allows dabbling workers (set the max skill to dabbling). This should make all dwarves with that skill enabled train until they are novices, at which point they will quit and let the next dwarf train.

Now that you have most of your fort primed to make the "correct" kinds of artifacts there is only one more variable: material.

There are three ways to force artifacts to be made from the most valuable materials:
   Use DFHack job-material
   Forbid everything but the most valuable stuff
   Build a special artifact construction area

Using DFHack is the easy way, but most people (including me) consider this cheating.

Forbidding everything works, and it will be the only way for early artifacts, but doing this will cause everything else in the fort to grind to a halt. As an alternative consider just forbidding things like low value gems and metals. Of course it goes without saying that a bookkeeper makes this much easier :)

The artifactory is the easiest system for forts past the first year or so, but you have to remember to build it ahead of time :p
To put it simply an artifactory is a large room with small stockpiles of the most valuable materials in the fort and a selection of workshops. When a dwarf gets a mood check his skills to determine what kind of workshop he will need (for example a weaponsmith will need a forge and a mason will need a masons workshop). Now forbid all of the workshops of that type in your fort EXCEPT the one in the artifactory. The dwarf will go to the artifactory and claim the workshop there (if he starts to head towards a different workshop then you misidentified, try again). As soon as he enters the artifactory lock the door behind him, now all you need to do is check on him now and again to make sure he has everything he needs. If he gets stuck you can temporarily let him out, but as soon as he drags back whatever he wanted lock the door again to prevent him from fetching low value materials from outside.
When the artifact is finished it is a good idea to forbid everything inside the artifactory so that the buildings and items are not used for non-artifact purposes.

By far the hardest part of making an artifactory is getting enough of everything inside.
Here is a list of approximately what you will need:
4-6 metal bars
4-6 boulders
2-4 blocks
4-6 cut gems
4-6 rough gems
3-4 yarn cloth
3-4 plant cloth
3-4 silk cloth
3-4 leather
2-4 bones
2-4 shells
3-4 wood
1-2 fuel (if artifactory is not magma powered)

The above list is just the basic items, for example if a glassmaker mood is possible in your fort you will need raw glass as well.

In my test fort I have had my share of useless trinkets, but most of the trinkets were made by kids (who can't be trained) and dwarves who had a "bad" skill as their main profession.
Early on I only forced selection of silk, metal, and gems. This worked fine and I got a lot of valuable artifacts out of the deal, but now I wish I had built an artifactory sooner...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 02:02:37 pm by milo christiansen »
Logged
Rubble 8 - The most powerful modding suite in existence!
After all, coke is for furnaces, not for snorting.
You're not true dwarven royalty unless you own the complete 'Signature Collection' baby-bone bedroom set from NOKEAS

ShadowHammer

  • Bay Watcher
  • God is love.
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 06:49:49 pm »

I like the thread; most of this information is a available elsewhere, but this is the first time I've seen it all in one place. Good job!

With that said...

Armorsmith has far to much of a chance to get one boot or glove, but if you have a guy that likes breastplates or greaves...
I find that armorsmith is worth the risk, because your legendary warriors can never be too well protected, but I can definitely see how you could argue for the other side too. Definitely better than carpenter moods, though, IMHO.
Bower 66% chance to make something useless? I think I'll pass.
Dwarves can wield bows, crossbows and blowguns. While the crossbow is the only one that you can produce ammo for naturally, I find that it isn't too difficult to acquire arrows. Even a blowgun isn't useless, as it can be placed in a weapon trap and it effectively becomes a piece of furniture.
Logged

4maskwolf

  • Bay Watcher
  • 4mask always angle, do figure his!
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 06:52:35 pm »

I'm going to agree with shadowhammer on the first part.  Armorsmith is still useful, because at least it will always produce something useful.  On the second one, however: bowyer is not a particularly commonly used skill, and as such is not the most important of skills to have mooded.  Also, artifact crossbows are nowhere near as OP as they were in 40d, so it isn't worth as much, unless you are fond of crossbowdwarfs.

itg

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 07:07:02 pm »

I like the thread, too. A few other thoughts on moods/artifacts:

  • You shouldn't overlook the benefits of a free legendary dwarf, especially in a hard-to-train skill. I'm more than happy to get a crappy artifact low boot if it gets me a legendary armorsmith.
  • Bone carver, gem cutter/setter (I think they can create the same artifacts?), and glass maker are nice because they can create furniture out of otherwise impossible materials. For instance, I was able to give my first militia commander a goblin bone coffin thanks to a bone carver mood.
  • If you forbid the first material (and keep forbidding until the first unforbidden material doesn't match the mood), the artifact will default to iron. This is a potentially useful trick for increasing artifact value and for creating novelty items like iron clothing.

milo christiansen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Something generic here
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 07:15:21 pm »

Ah, good. More people with good information, this thread is better for all your input. :)

About armorsmith... I guess I got fed up with too many single boots :)

As for using moods as training aids, it all depends on how you structure your industry, for example in most forts I have only one smith who does ALL smithing labors (who I pick is based on attributes), normally by the time my smith gets a mood he is legendary in all smithing skills via making copper items (that are then used to train my furnace operators via melting them down, magma sure is useful)
I guess if you are less rigid in who does what that would be a major consideration.
Logged
Rubble 8 - The most powerful modding suite in existence!
After all, coke is for furnaces, not for snorting.
You're not true dwarven royalty unless you own the complete 'Signature Collection' baby-bone bedroom set from NOKEAS

doublestrafe

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PONY_DEPENDENT]
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 07:43:14 pm »

This tip for training moodable skills in quantity should probably be here: set a repeating job in a workshop, then go into the workshop [P]rofile and set the maximum skill level to Novice. Then enable the relevant task on your hordes of useless cheesemakers, and watch them take turns becoming potential legends. Dwarf Therapist's "highest moodable skill" view is very useful for identifying candidates.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 07:46:10 pm by doublestrafe »
Logged

milo christiansen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Something generic here
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 07:47:02 pm »

I thought I already said that.... Nope, looking back I forgot to add that part. oops.

BTW: rather than set the max to novice, set it to dabbling, less wasted training that way :)
Logged
Rubble 8 - The most powerful modding suite in existence!
After all, coke is for furnaces, not for snorting.
You're not true dwarven royalty unless you own the complete 'Signature Collection' baby-bone bedroom set from NOKEAS

Ruhn

  • Bay Watcher
  • Adept Dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 10:16:17 pm »

This is a clever idea and a good name too.  If I wasn't so sleepy I'd put it on the wiki.

milo christiansen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Something generic here
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 02:52:42 pm »

I have a better version I am working on, I'll post it in a few days...
Logged
Rubble 8 - The most powerful modding suite in existence!
After all, coke is for furnaces, not for snorting.
You're not true dwarven royalty unless you own the complete 'Signature Collection' baby-bone bedroom set from NOKEAS

Loci

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 07:53:26 pm »

When a dwarf gets a mood check his skills to determine what kind of workshop he will need (for example a weaponsmith will need a forge and a mason will need a masons workshop). Now forbid all of the workshops of that type in your fort EXCEPT the one in the artifactory. The dwarf will go to the artifactory and claim the workshop there (if he starts to head towards a different workshop then you misidentified, try again).

In my experience, moody dwarves only respect forbidden workshops at the time they choose (right after the strange mood message is displayed). That means no second chances...

But, you can build all of your non-artifactory workshops out of a specific material (say, Bauxite blocks), and bulk-forbid them all in the stocks screen to make sure your moody dwarf will head to the artifactory.

Regarding materials, Raw Adamantine blocks are great filler for vastly inflating the value of any artifact requiring stone blocks. Moody metalsmiths can stretch a single adamantine wafer into any weapon, armor, or furniture. Weaponsmiths with a preference for impact weapons should be provided platinum for ultimate skull-smashing.
Logged

Ravendarksky

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • DFMon.exe - Get rid of DF SPAM
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 11:11:19 am »

I can add to this that dwarfs are not fixed in what items they grab once they have selected something.

If a dwarf hauls a lump of granite into a workshop for a mood... Just use T to open up the workshop and forbid the stone. They will run off and get a different stone instead. (Assuming the next nearest stone isn't granite also)

Obviously this isn't useful for the last item they need and it is often hard to ascertain exactly how many things they need for their artifact.

I think you can also get dwarfs to use extra items in artifacts by repeatedly doing this and then forbidding everything before they start the final craft, but don't quote me on that as it has been a while since I've done this.
Logged

Fen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Secretly A Kobold Werebull
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 04:52:46 pm »

This reminds me, does the Planepacked trick still work? Because if you're out for amazing artifacts that's a pretty hilarious way to go with it.
Logged
This space for rent

Togre

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 09:47:49 am »

Dwarfs with "craft" skills are least desirable from an artifact point of view because of the completely useless jewelry and such they often make.  But they can make at least reasonable useful things too, right?  Since you do need a craftdwarf or two in a normal fort, would it work to choose those dwarfs who like a non-aweful craft item to be your craftdwarfs?  Or is there a hole in this idea?
Logged
"Hey guys, you know how I've been repeatedly injuring you over and over again for the purpose of training up a team of high skilled doctors? Yeah well we didn't actually need to do that."

Broken

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 10:18:47 am »

This reminds me, does the Planepacked trick still work? Because if you're out for amazing artifacts that's a pretty hilarious way to go with it.

Yes it does. You have to designate a burrow with the materials, but not the workshop, and asign the Moody dwarf to it. He will take all
the materials  inside.

Note that this only work with the first material of the list; If the dwarfs wants bars and gems, you can force him to use all the bars you want,
but not to take more than one gem.
Logged
Quote
In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

milo christiansen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Something generic here
    • View Profile
Re: Artifactory: How to create awesome artifacts (most of the time)
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 02:01:29 pm »

I think I'll leave the planepacked trick out ;)

This thread is turning into a regular gold mine of artifact info :)

BTW: I updated the first post with the revised version, I did not add all the stuff in this thread in the interests of KISS.
Logged
Rubble 8 - The most powerful modding suite in existence!
After all, coke is for furnaces, not for snorting.
You're not true dwarven royalty unless you own the complete 'Signature Collection' baby-bone bedroom set from NOKEAS
Pages: [1] 2