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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 2861891 times)

dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47445 on: January 29, 2022, 09:41:28 am »

The saddest vicory lap this failed system ever had.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47446 on: January 29, 2022, 09:43:16 am »

The lower age-limit might not help. It'll be thirty-odd years before Lillibet Mountbatten-Windsor could even consider becoming your President (as well as the reigning monarch of the UK, possibly, depending on how fate deals the cards).
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47447 on: January 29, 2022, 10:50:50 am »

Iduno is like me. Me from 2019. The one who wanted to murder her political opponents.
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47448 on: January 29, 2022, 01:47:33 pm »

No, he's spent nearly 40 years trying to drive this country to fascism, and his followers have been doing the same. He has consistently supported any war, increase in policing, defending police from repercussions of brutality, preventing non-whites/LGBTQ+/poor people from having equal rights. I'd happily see the lot of them hanging from their toes. This is just a mildly-amusing anecdote related to the problems he's continually trying to cause.
So yeah this is just true.  Liberal-style neo-colonialism was a path to American fascism.  It used to be a theory but then it came true, oops.

A ultranationalist military state which relies on exploiting "lesser" states can remain "liberal" a scary-long time with sufficient spending on infrastructure, law enforcement, and internal espionage.  There's even room for incremental social progress!  Why not, as long as it doesn't disrupt the military-industrial complex?  Granting people basic human rights is free... but valuable on election years, so ration them.

Then oops you get a populist movement that's oddly racist due to colonialism and militarist due to forever-war.  From the myths we teach about the revolution, they take the final component of fascism: fetishizing heroic death in combat.  Suddenly: (even more) right-wing terrorism disturbed young individuals who seemed like such nice boys!
plus antisemitism because populist movements aren't that creative

Eh, other people explain it better, but in short: Biden probably isn't a fascist, but Liberals like him kept smoking in the oily-rags room and now they're all looking for the person who did this.
I can support the Democratic party because it's the only meaningful option short of societal collapse, while blaming them for this state of affairs.  Vote local, vote often, vote the fuckers out.

But don't just vote.  No justice?  No peace.  Pacifism serves tyranny, save it for utopia.
...I'm talking about protest, but general civil unrest is a natural consequence of this state of affairs. 
Yeah killing political opponents mostly just leads to societal collapse, and probably not the good kind of revolution.  we (USA) sure got good at that

You gotta laugh...

No, he's spent nearly 40 years trying to drive this country to fascism,and his followers have been doing the same.
Who can forget his invocation of Tiki-Torch parades...
Wait, dammit, you're right.  Fascism was completely the wrong word for Biden's actions.
How could he be fascist... when he isn't Italian??

(I'm sorry for such an cheap snipe, but you're right... I kinda needed a laugh :P)
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47449 on: January 29, 2022, 10:38:59 pm »

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47450 on: January 29, 2022, 10:41:29 pm »

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.

all that election/voting obstruction and education undermining's looking pretty sus ngl
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47451 on: January 29, 2022, 11:05:36 pm »

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.

I mean, a bunch of people tried to actually did storm the center of government because they were whipped into a frenzy by Their Side telling them their election - and by extension, their country - was being stolen from them, despite zero evidence of that.

What do you think would have happened has they actually succeeded in their aims?
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47452 on: January 29, 2022, 11:06:51 pm »

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.
With respect-
Trump's movement is directly fascist.  Not most individual members, and I doubt Trump himself sees it that way, but they are performing racist populism in order to justify taking resources from lesser states "undesirables".  I'm sure most of them don't know what they're doing.  One of their core messages is to ignore uncomfortable history, and worship the US instead.

All that shocked the "Let's go back to brunch" crowd enough that we got Biden, BIDEN, in office for a term.  And he only has that term because the death-worshipping fascists fucked up their Beer Hall Putsch.  ...Maybe also because the Republican Establishment loves relinquishing control periodically to collect more "They're coming for your guns!  They're the reason you have no jobs!" rhetoric.  It would look bad if they were always in control, right?  And it's not like the Democrats... usually... do anything truly threatening to the Republican ruling class.

I aim to change that.  Electoralism 2022.  Many leftists say I'm a fool for this, it's a lot easier to talk about revolution.  Maybe I am a joker for still believing in democracy a twice-removed representative government gerrymandered all to hell.

It's just that some young leftists are supporting progressive Democratic candidates who are, very often, a lot less shit than Biden.

Where's that student debt cancellation, Biden?  It doesn't help me, but you promised it and it's a profitable investment in the nation.  And we'll never see it.  Getting any sort of progress out of the Democratic party is like pulling teeth.

Whereas asking progress or trying to exist in a Republican area just gets you assaulted or worse, and they still haven't figured out how much they want to support their fascist faction.  My conservative asshole grandfather would have wept to see gerrymandered Republican hierarchy he built in [state] lose control so bad to simple racists.  The proles stopped taking orders and started acting on the hate-speech.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 11:10:07 pm by Rolan7 »
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No justice, no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47453 on: January 29, 2022, 11:39:16 pm »

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.

all that election/voting obstruction and education undermining's looking pretty sus ngl
It is but by itself that's not fascism.

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.

I mean, a bunch of people tried to actually did storm the center of government because they were whipped into a frenzy by Their Side telling them their election - and by extension, their country - was being stolen from them, despite zero evidence of that.

What do you think would have happened has they actually succeeded in their aims?
A dictatorship. Perhaps a fascist one, but fascism really is a specific thing. But during Trump's rule it was reactionarism: para-fascism.

I really don't think America is fascist. Trump, at worst, was merely reactionary. But there's a huge gap between the current state of affairs and 30s-era Italy and Germany, just from studying history.
With respect-
Trump's movement is directly fascist.  Not most individual members, and I doubt Trump himself sees it that way, but they are performing racist populism in order to justify taking resources from lesser states "undesirables".  I'm sure most of them don't know what they're doing.  One of their core messages is to ignore uncomfortable history, and worship the US instead.

All that shocked the "Let's go back to brunch" crowd enough that we got Biden, BIDEN, in office for a term.  And he only has that term because the death-worshipping fascists fucked up their Beer Hall Putsch.  ...Maybe also because the Republican Establishment loves relinquishing control periodically to collect more "They're coming for your guns!  They're the reason you have no jobs!" rhetoric.  It would look bad if they were always in control, right?  And it's not like the Democrats... usually... do anything truly threatening to the Republican ruling class.

I aim to change that.  Electoralism 2022.  Many leftists say I'm a fool for this, it's a lot easier to talk about revolution.  Maybe I am a joker for still believing in democracy a twice-removed representative government gerrymandered all to hell.

It's just that some young leftists are supporting progressive Democratic candidates who are, very often, a lot less shit than Biden.

Where's that student debt cancellation, Biden?  It doesn't help me, but you promised it and it's a profitable investment in the nation.  And we'll never see it.  Getting any sort of progress out of the Democratic party is like pulling teeth.

Whereas asking progress or trying to exist in a Republican area just gets you assaulted or worse, and they still haven't figured out how much they want to support their fascist faction.  My conservative asshole grandfather would have wept to see gerrymandered Republican hierarchy he built in [state] lose control so bad to simple racists.  The proles stopped taking orders and started acting on the hate-speech.
This I can get behind. I am too soft to support revolution anymore, really.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47454 on: January 30, 2022, 08:29:26 am »

Where's that student debt cancellation, Biden?  It doesn't help me, but you promised it and it's a profitable investment in the nation.  And we'll never see it.  Getting any sort of progress out of the Democratic party is like pulling teeth.
Like, for what it's worth, there's already been several billion dollars of it, iirc. There hasn't been a broad, across board cancellation (the white house position seems to be they think they need congressional support for that, and the 50/50 split in senate precludes that pretty much entirely), but this administration actually has pushed through quite a bit more than there was before, as well as streamlining a lot of the processes involved and overall removing previous roadblocks on a number of already existing forgiveness programs. There's definitely been progress, just less than most folls with any sense would like.

Shit probably would have been a hell of a lot different on a lot of fronts if the senate wasn't hinged on fucking manchin and goddamn sinema :-\
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47455 on: January 30, 2022, 10:06:42 am »

It doesn't help that "universal student loan forgiveness" is extremely unpopular. For all the noise made about it online, it polls at only about 20-30% for.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47456 on: January 30, 2022, 11:34:02 am »

Iduno is like me. Me from 2019. The one who wanted to murder her political opponents.

I don't, but I certainly won't mind when they're gone.
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Micro102

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47457 on: January 30, 2022, 04:48:43 pm »

The best description I've seen of fascism is Eco Umberto's Ur-Fascism. And the republican party fits really well into these descriptions. They are most definitely fascist.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47458 on: January 30, 2022, 11:23:44 pm »

The best description I've seen of fascism is Eco Umberto's Ur-Fascism. And the republican party fits really well into these descriptions. They are most definitely fascist.
No it doesn't. Calling random right-wing parties fascist merely dilutes the term.

Iduno is like me. Me from 2019. The one who wanted to murder her political opponents.

I don't, but I certainly won't mind when they're gone.
I thought you wanted to hang them. You said it.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 11:27:52 pm by MaxTheFox »
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Micro102

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #47459 on: January 31, 2022, 12:44:21 am »

The best description I've seen of fascism is Eco Umberto's Ur-Fascism. And the republican party fits really well into these descriptions. They are most definitely fascist.
No it doesn't. Calling random right-wing parties fascist merely dilutes the term.



Really? How many times do you see republicans citing tradition as a reason something should be kept? They hug the bible and the constitution and declare them perfect documents that must be followed and not changed.

They reject modernism. You yourself called them reactionary.

They clearly distrust the intellectual world. Climate change, the vaccine, and solar energy are part of a big conspiracy to them.

They clearly attack anyone who disagrees with them. Just look at Liz Cheney. Kicked from the republican party for daring to vote to impeach Trump for inciting the coup attempt.

I'm not going to go over every point, but it's pretty clear that these descriptions stick to them like glue, and "nu-uh" doesn't cut it as a counter argument.
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