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Author Topic: Melee friendly fire?  (Read 3962 times)

Grand Sage

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Melee friendly fire?
« on: April 09, 2017, 04:10:56 pm »

Hi there!

I just had a battle in my fort between 6 military dwarves and two weremonitors (former members of my community). In the heat of conflict, this happened:



so... here is my theory: the hammerlord missed his actual target and hit my swordsdwarf instead. only, i wasn't aware that something like this even is possible. can someone confirm that that is what happened?

also, everyone seems to be fairly fine with the fact that he died... his squadmate even considered it "fairly satisfying".
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 04:13:21 pm by Grand Sage »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 05:05:30 pm »

The Weremonitor changed back into dwarf form before someone killed it. The hammer lord recognised it as a member of their civ and took revenge.

This used to result in the complete meltdown of a fortress as everyone took sides and killed each other. It's been toned down a bit recently.
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Grand Sage

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 06:15:45 pm »

That would be a reasonable explanation, BUT, and I apologies if I wasn't clear about this before: The swordsdwarf was one of the two swordsdwarves involved in the conflict. with them were 3 hammerdwarves. they fought two weremonitors, who did not turn back (I know this because one died before this and the other kept fighting afterwards). also, if the werebeast had turned back, he would have been a fishery-worker or wrestler, not a swordsdwarf. Sry, but i dont think that that it happened like you say it did.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 06:36:03 pm »

Hmm. Don't know then. Friendly fire like this isn't possible. The hammer lord really meant to hit the militia captain for some reason. Were they arguing mid-battle?

This usually happens with weres which is why I guessed that was the reason.

History can cause weird things to happen sometimes. For example, sieges have been known to trigger sudden friendly attacks recently. Long festering grudges (your grandfather killed my second cousin!) suddenly spring into action as the game makes everyone pick sides.

No way to tell for sure though unless you have a save from right before it happened.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 06:39:25 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Grand Sage

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 08:58:44 am »

Sadly, I do not have a save from before the accident, but i remembered a trick were you can view a dead dwarf by going through the relations screen. Heres the thing though: i cant find a single dwarf who is related to the dead dwarf, or even is on friendly terms with him, BUT I made a different discovery. Apparently are all my other military dwarves related in one way or another, and the weremonitor that died first was an aunt to ALL of them! Im not sure if that is the reason for the incident though. next up is making a backup and going into legends mode, But first ill keep looking for someone who talked to Urist McDead. time for some !!SCIENCE!!
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Grand Sage

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 11:05:58 am »

Allright, so apparently my swordsdwarf was rather twisted: he used to be an apprentice under an elf (!) and had a goblin apprentice himself. Legends mode also confirms that he was the one killing the werebeast who turned out to be ab aunt to all the other military dwarves... so I guess that is why no one misses him.
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Larix

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 11:27:47 am »

If it was a beast-transformed citizen, it's probably this bug.
In beast-form, werepeople count as berserk, and berserking doesn't clear/suspend group membership properly, so anyone involved in combat with a berserk/transformed citizen runs a massive risk of being treated as an enemy of the group.
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Grand Sage

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 12:56:15 pm »

Oh man, form what I have read about these loyalty cascades I got off lucky! Thx man this probably explains it (though I like the "you killed my aunt" story better, but i suppose family loyalties are not implemented yet/will not be implemented)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 06:00:07 pm »

Oh man, form what I have read about these loyalty cascades I got off lucky! Thx man this probably explains it (though I like the "you killed my aunt" story better, but i suppose family loyalties are not implemented yet/will not be implemented)
Family loyalty is very much part of the game.
Even the recent bug reported where total war was declared in the tavern turned out to be caused by family conflict (triggered by the appearance of a siege).

I've found killing berserk mood-failers only results in mild (occasional fatal) scuffles now. The legendary loyalty cascades of old are becoming more and more rare. Never had military kill each other over a werebeast before though (except when it transforms just before the fatal blow).
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 06:03:14 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Grand Sage

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 06:53:05 am »

This game never ceases to surprise me with its content! And while I have been playing for quite a lot of versions now, I haven't encountered a full-scale loyalty cascade, not even back in the days.

If only legends mode would store the motives for dwarfA to kill dwarfB too... would make it a lot more interesting to read imho.
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EBannion

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Re: Melee friendly fire?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 08:24:26 pm »

Oh man, form what I have read about these loyalty cascades I got off lucky! Thx man this probably explains it (though I like the "you killed my aunt" story better, but i suppose family loyalties are not implemented yet/will not be implemented)
Family loyalty is very much part of the game.
Even the recent bug reported where total war was declared in the tavern turned out to be caused by family conflict (triggered by the appearance of a siege).

I've found killing berserk mood-failers only results in mild (occasional fatal) scuffles now. The legendary loyalty cascades of old are becoming more and more rare. Never had military kill each other over a werebeast before though (except when it transforms just before the fatal blow).

I always assign anyone who is definitely going to fail a mood three war dogs, and then lock the door to the workshop they've claimed. If they go berserk, the only things that get tainted by killing them are the dogs, and I've never had a loyalty issue there.
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