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Author Topic: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]  (Read 54173 times)

Mephansteras

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Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« on: December 18, 2017, 08:51:13 pm »

New Star Wars thread since the old one was created by Orange Wizard and he can't exactly do anything with it anymore.


Rules for this thread: Keep it civil! No name calling, no insults, no personal attacks. Everyone is free to like or dislike what they wish. If you can't seem to agree with someone on something, just drop it and talk about something else.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 12:52:49 am by Mephansteras »
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hector13

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 09:31:12 pm »

I think Iíll PTW, seeing as I just finished watching the new one.

One thing I really do want to say is I find Finn a bit pointless.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 10:55:29 pm »

He was certainly more important to the first story. In this one he's just a vehicle for a bad plan to happen. I'm hoping he gets a more interesting arc in the next movie.

What I really want to know is...what's up with Snoke? We learn pretty much nothing about him. He's just...an evil, powerful dark side user who commands the First Order? And is horribly mutilated?

I don't know...he's kind of just a powered up Palpatine, but manages to be much less interesting.
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NRDL

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 11:09:10 pm »

There's bound to be spin-off stuff, unless of course he's actually survived the events of this movie like a fan theory I actually like.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 12:08:21 am »

Some people were saying that instead of Marvelization that Star Wars is just what a "Modern Blockbuster" looks like, which is bullshit, it wasn't even what a 70's Blockbuster looked like when it came out.

Also, it seems like a lot of people have been saying "OMG, I like the movie, I don't have to defend myself!!!" To which I say, chill. We're just discussing the movie, both its merits and its shortcomings, both of which is has plenty of. None of the discussion has been an attack on anybody, and while it's been passionate, it's because there are a lot of Star Wars fans. And that's okay.

My stance is really just that neither TFA or TLJ really feel like a Star Wars movie. And please for the love of god don't say it's nostalgia. Basically everything else that's every come out under the Star Wars brand has at least--barring any considerations for quality--felt like Star Wars. 2003 Clone Wars, The Clone Wars, Prequel Trilogy, KOTOR I&II, SW:TOR--there is a certain established aesthetic and while there isn't one style to emulate, I feel that neither of the two main movies captures that feeling.

Now, TFA specifically actually does a 50/50 job. Jakku is wonderful I think. Everything set on Jakku is lit. The First Order looks pretty good, not nearly as goofy as the shit in TLJ. Phasma is bad, straight up, like... someone had pointed out that she could be the embodiment of Finn's worst fears about the FO, but if you're going to stick by that well... it's done poorly. We all initially thought she was going to be Boba V2.0 and she just ended up getting zero screen time. The plot is actually solid, I mean after all, it is pretty much a ripoff of Ep4, but Starkiller base is lame as fuuuuuuuck compared to the Death Star (though the lightsaber duel is good.) They should have gone with the Galaxy Gun or one of the other numerous Superweapons in the Star Wars universe which are infinitely cooler. Maz and the tavern is eh, it's not a bad idea, it's just... not done right? The real problem with the new trilogy as compared to both the original AND the prequel (and again just about any Star Wars story ever) is that it doesn't do world-building very well. By which I mean, it's fucking awful at world building. There are massive skips in time, locations never make any sense or at least try to not feel incredibly random, and there are honestly too many characters which are casually thrown away or don't get the development they need. The pacing is all off, and while I agree both of the new films have been a fun romp, they just don't feel like an epic. The plot doesn't really feel like it's building to anything and as a result, the characters feel stale.

Rogue One on the other hand does a great job, and before you start telling me how it doesn't count because it's set right before Ep4, they introduced a boatload of new costumes, ships, and aliens that looks awesome and matched right up with all the content that was created under Lucas. Its story is solid and original, but nothing spectacular honestly--the idea is really good, just kind of boring protagonists.

Part of why New Wars can't world build is because they are trying to semi-reinvent the look of Star Wars which is... just not a good decision. What isn't iconic about Star Wars? If you watch the original film today it is so visually unique, why would you want to move away from that? Even if you want to argue that it's because of merchandising, there is a whole sub-genre of Star Wars comics that fucking NAILS the art style to a T, at least try and be cohesive with what fans already know and love? The world I keep using to describe most of the new designs is goofy, and it's hard to argue against that imo, so let me bring up to two points and then get some example. 1.) The new designs are bad on their own, and 2.) While every faction or thematic element had a unity in their design in the series under Lucas, things are beginning to look generic and vary in style.

Examples:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's just off, and it's compounded by poor cinematography and editing--not to mention the fact that the new trilogy is super afraid to explore any of the new things in depth.
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NRDL

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 12:19:36 am »

Rogue One really did have a cool look. The aesthetics really supported the context of the events of the movie, you actually FEEL hemmed in by how crisp and orderly everything is, which matches the theme of Imperial oppression really well.

The visuals and designs of TFA and TLJ are just as equally likeable honestly. I've always been more concerned about what the new stuff DOES than what they look like, and they were all really darn serviceable.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 12:50:27 am »

Rogue One really did have a cool look. The aesthetics really supported the context of the events of the movie, you actually FEEL hemmed in by how crisp and orderly everything is, which matches the theme of Imperial oppression really well.

Rogue One was really awesome.

The visuals and designs of TFA and TLJ are just as equally likeable honestly. I've always been more concerned about what the new stuff DOES than what they look like, and they were all really darn serviceable.

To be fair, it's not like it's all bad. Or even in my opinion truly awful. Individually speaking, you have the Storm Trooper Assault Boats, and Kylo's shuttle which both look rad as heck, but along with the updated TIEs, AT-ATs, AT-STs, and ships... not everything fits together in a cohesive way. I agree that they are serviceable and admit I would probably like them a lot more if we spent more time with them. I mean in the original trilogy we spend a heck of a lot of time in command bridges and pilot seats, it seems like the new trilogy is afraid to do the same.
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NRDL

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 01:04:02 am »

The fact that we spend nearly a third of the movie on an isolated, nearly technology free island really doesn't do the film any favours in that regard.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 02:30:41 am »

Said  in the other thread but Iíll put it here were it belongs: this film lacked hope, all the characters act with no goals beyond immediate survival. And lacked the courage of committing to a dire mood. You have this set of gungho dudes and dudette and smirky remarks basically just floating over the setting hardly being part of it.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 10:44:58 am »

PTW.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 11:05:57 am »

I think that the reveal that Supreme Leader Smoke is actually a Kryptonian marks a new highpoint in the saga, and even surpases "I am your father".  Really, merging SW with Marvel was a smart and logical move from Disney
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Mephansteras

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 12:36:24 pm »

I think that the reveal that Supreme Leader Smoke is actually a Kryptonian marks a new highpoint in the saga, and even surpases "I am your father".  Really, merging SW with Marvel was a smart and logical move from Disney

 ::)
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 04:24:46 pm »

There was an interesting thing that happened while I was watching where at least two of my random thoughts about how it'd be funny to see something happen came true a little while after I thought them (notably "what would happen if you accelerated to FTL into another ship" and "wouldn't it be funny if they murked Snoke right here so we don't have to go through the Emperor song and dance again"). This is a considerable improvement over TFA, where instead I couldn't help but think of ways they could have plotted the thing more cohesively. It would've been cool if they could have integrated Finn and Rose's planetside thing better, but at least the way to do it didn't really occur to me during watching the movie itself.

There's a bunch of stuff that's pretty rough in there, and though there's fewer porgs than I expected there were still a few too many, but overall I found this to be a lot more like what I expected/wanted TFA to be like with its attempts at subversion. Rather liked the strong accompanying "burn it all down" message in the story too.

Mind you, this being the only Star Wars I've seen in a theater is probably coloring my perceptions at least a tad. Feel pretty good about my choice to do it for this one, considering JJ's back to directing the next one.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 05:23:13 pm »

Said  in the other thread but Iíll put it here were it belongs: this film lacked hope, all the characters act with no goals beyond immediate survival. And lacked the courage of committing to a dire mood. You have this set of gungho dudes and dudette and smirky remarks basically just floating over the setting hardly being part of it.
[/quote

The point of this movie was 'good guys get their shit kicked in and desperately try to keep something alive', so that's kinda the whole point.

And no hope?  Sure there was nothing through most of it, but did you leave before the last few minutes of the movie or are you just being hyperbolic?
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NJW2000

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 06:09:39 pm »

Saw The Lost Jedi yesterday, was bearable.

Whoever wrote some of the dialogue needs a slap, but hey, that's probably authentic. Acting was firmly meh, with slightly interesting performances from Laura Dern, Del Toro and Domnhall Gleeson, and Driver's typical "I am doing things with my face like a human." Kind of agreed with kylo after he murked wossname scene tbh, but came out cheering for Ginger as the only character I care about left. Some CGI looked OK, some annoyed me.

Worst thing was probably the stupid individualistic ethic of the rebellion. Even when you're sacrificing yourself it's all about you and your loved ones: ick.

Best was possibly the general on the big empire ship that seemed aware of imperial incompetence in an ironic, fourth wall breaking way. Or possibly how the Praetorian guard looked, though I didn't enjoy their fight.

In conclusion the film was quite long.
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