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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3511142 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3645 on: August 09, 2009, 02:11:34 pm »

It could be scrollable?
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Mandaril

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3646 on: August 09, 2009, 02:13:02 pm »

am I the only one who noticed that every dwarf in the examples like olivine a bit too much ?

Which brings me to a question: are these descriptions, charactereistics, likes, dislikes, etc affected by envirioment etc?

Maybe all those screenshots are from same fortress/test-area/whatever where they were exposed to a lot of olivine? You know, like military training increases weapon skills etc?
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Armok

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3647 on: August 09, 2009, 02:16:06 pm »

I think the reason all the dwarves like the same stuff is either bug related, or because not enough raws are finished for there to be enough other things to like. Remember when everyone liked mangrove?
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Tenebrais

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3648 on: August 09, 2009, 03:02:25 pm »

It looks like Olivine is the only stone being referenced, and Black Bronze the only metal. Of course, dwarves have two or three stone preferences, so olivine is appearing two or three times.

I notice Dwarf 3 likes ivory. Will this be in the next release?
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Leafsnail

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3649 on: August 09, 2009, 03:14:54 pm »

Yeah, he might have been tested it with just one stone and just one metal as examples.  Or, if it were effected by environment, that would be even more awesome.
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Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3650 on: August 09, 2009, 03:23:08 pm »

The elder Mafol shows a missing preference reference as she likes amongst other things amulets and .

Also dwarfs tend to have extremely long noses.
and females have no beards...heresy!! ;)
If these descriptions are from a dwarven perspective I'm surprised they ever mate at all. I suspect they are antropomorpic (for our benefit) however.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 03:54:05 pm by Areyar »
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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3651 on: August 09, 2009, 03:26:44 pm »

I wonder how long it until someone makes an utility that renders how a dwarf looks after this release.

STAR ZOO  Dwarf Fortress needs a Star Zoo style ASCII-portrait generator, for maximum fuglyness!
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3652 on: August 09, 2009, 04:45:41 pm »

It looks like Olivine is the only stone being referenced, and Black Bronze the only metal. Of course, dwarves have two or three stone preferences, so olivine is appearing two or three times.

I notice Dwarf 3 likes ivory. Will this be in the next release?

One of the dwarves likes horse-hoof, so presumably any hard body part will be a potential preference.

As far as the two olivines go: maybe it's time for Toady to split it up into Forsterite (Mg2SiO4) and Fayalite (Fe2SiO4), with the term Olivine used for middle-of-the-road MgFeSiO4. (Those should all be gems, though; the proper term for an olivine-rich ultra-mafic stone is Peridotite.)
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Martin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3653 on: August 09, 2009, 05:13:36 pm »

Okay, after reading the descriptions, a very minor suggesting for the generator - it should never use the same adjective twice in a description. 'somewhat' ... 'somewhat' makes me want to chew gravel. Apply it to the 'olivine', 'olivine', ... 'olivine' lovers too.

LordNagash

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3654 on: August 09, 2009, 06:15:21 pm »

Okay, after reading the descriptions, a very minor suggesting for the generator - it should never use the same adjective twice in a description. 'somewhat' ... 'somewhat' makes me want to chew gravel. Apply it to the 'olivine', 'olivine', ... 'olivine' lovers too.

That's all very well to say, but you try describing someone you know, in great detail and relative to other people, without using the same word twice. I agree we could probably use more synonyms but there are only so many ways you can describe something.

As for for olivine thing, and the seemingly smaller amount of preferences i think both of those are due to an error somewhere. They seem to like either olivine or ' ', which would account for the less visible preferences.

And finally, for the horse hoof and ivory, all that kind of stuff will be around in this version. Feathers too, if I remember rightly. That should make mods... interesting. Good luck trying to import griffon feathers or something.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3655 on: August 09, 2009, 06:25:48 pm »

Quote from: Khyron
With the advent of burrows in the next version, will it be possible to set up an area specifically for animals to wander around in (IE : The front of the fort, where they can catch thieves), while the jobless masses meander around the well?

Nope.  You can't tell animals where to go.  At some point you might be able to have them placed in fenced off areas or something, but you can't assign them to burrows in the same way you can with dwarves.

Quote from: Deimos56
Can situations arise in which creatures mutually worship each other?
Does it have to be a complicated relationship involving 3+ creatures for such a situation to arise?
Does worship do anything other than stroke the worshiped creature's ego?
Do worshiping being get a happy thought from meeting their worshiped creature/deity?

It's currently megabeast/power attackers that become worshipped by polytheistic civ critters.  I don't think that can go in a circle even with more than three critters, because the attacks are all from one class of creature into another class.

Worshipping doesn't do anything at all at this point.

Quote from: James.Denholm
Toady: Will the player be able to designate their own dwarves as targets?
Also, have you considered allowing the player to possibly be able to order the dwarves to only damage a target to a certain point, as in, to rough them up a little, but not kill them?

No, this is not allowed.  I think we discussed why up the thread a bit.  None of these action are part of the job description of a dwarf in an official position (the justice ones are all done automatically, and creating fake crimes would not be an official position job, but a personal/selfish matter).

Quote from: smjjames
Also, "Handle skill rusting", so I guess there will be a slow decay of certain skills over time?

As for the annoying cat bug, are you talking about the cat mouth bug? There is already a fix (more of a hack though I guess), so shouldn't that one technically be green?

Yeah, it's very, very slow though, and rust starts out as a temporary thing that is worked off quickly.

The cat bug is fixed in 40d#, but I haven't done the merge yet, so it still exists in the main line.

Quote from: Areyar
-Will the metabolism have a variable portion, that can be altered depending on activeness/sedentiarism, age etc.
-Will there be a personality trait that makes some dwarves eat more than others? (in relation to their energy requirements)

Right now it's just an attribute like any other, set on creation.  There is a personality trait that would control a lack of moderation in general, but it doesn't do much if anything yet.

Quote from: Org
Will lazy dwarves:
Make worse items?
Work slower?
Use more material?
Any combination of the above?

Nothing yet.

Quote from: G-Flex
Will every dwarf have the same ceiling for how high their attributes can go? And if so, is it reasonable to conclude that all your soldier dwarves will eventually be thin as rails since they'll all have super-high physical attributes? And would this be balanced by some dwarves eating substantially more than others based on personality traits and the like?

Ceilings of attributes are a percentage of the starting value.  So a strength 1000 dwarf might attain 2000, and a strength 750 dwarf might attain 1500.  It can all be set by attribute in the raws.  I don't think potential is variable between individuals now (as a percentage), but it might as well be later.

Quote from: jpwrunyan
When dwarves give birth now will they first try to go to the hospital area to do so?  Or will Any old place still suffice?

They still just shoot the baby out wherever they are.

Quote from: Petr Ga
I know you regularly deny help with coding from other people, but what about raw files etc?

Isn't there some monkey's work, that can be done by other people? Like formating, comparing, spellchecking, doublechecking etc?

I don't want to tell I have plethora of time, but if I there is something I can do to speed up next version, I want to do my best!

Nothing that will speed up the next version, but anybody that wants to fill in material values I couldn't find is welcome to help out.

Quote from: ArkDelgato
So, how is metabolism determined?
What does it effect?
Is there the slightest chance that a dwarf could get an overly-fast metabolism and poor energy storage?
Will said dwarf be stuck in perma eat mode?

How is energy storage determined?
Is fat burned in strenuous activity?
Would stuffing the military on cow-fried-cow be advisable before war for the extra energy?

Does different food grant different energy, or is it the act of eating?
Is there differentiation between minerals, vitamins, fats and calories?
Is it unhealthy to eat minced syrup for your only meal?
*could "minced" be replaced with a variable that could be any number of other food-prep words, as a quick fix to making cooking more interesting?
I.E. fried, baked, diced, julienned, grilled, flame broiled, pressed, salted, ect.

Will there ever be size differentiation for clothes?
What size is a dwarven child?
Are human children dwarf sized?

Metabolism is just the recuperation attribute, which affects how fast wounds heal and how fat works.  Fat is burned during strenuous activities.  It doesn't actually work as energy storage per se though, in that fat people aren't better for marathons etc., it just leaves them alive a little longer when they are starving to death.  I haven't done anything with calories or nutrition or whatever.  That's all later.  The size of creatures gradually change now, so there will be a brief period where a human child is the average overall size of a dwarf, yeah.  There might be size differentiation for clothes later, but only when we can handle it without it being a total nightmare for the player.

Quote from: smjjames
Anyways, what's the status on the rope/ladders/suspended elevators/etc, especially for large open spaces?

It hasn't been decided yet.  There will probably be something basic put in.

Quote from: Emeralddragon2
Just because I am curious, are brooks and rivers going to be changed in any way?

Last time I checked, when dworfs fell into an unchanged river, there was no way out unless you dug a ramp,

Couldnt we have some part of the river lined with ramps?

I haven't lined them with ramps yet if I remember, but it was one of those things I wanted to do.  I'm not sure what will happen though.

Quote from: Thursday Postal
Also I have no idea where this goes so I might as well stick it here: The Forum link on the Manual http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/help/main.html page of the DF website links to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi not the current forum address.

I've had that report but haven't acted on it yet as I'm probably just going to take the manual down entirely at some point.  It seems kind of useless up there.

Quote from: Gothmog
Since dwarves now have birthdays, will these specific dates have an influence on their mood/thoughts? Will they throw a party? How about being stationed on guard duty, patrolling the wall in the nauseating sun on their birthdays? Will positive/negative thoughts be gained or do DF dwarves think of a birthday as "just another day"?

They've always had birthdays.  They are just displayed now.  I haven't changed anything else surrounding them.

Quote from: Osmosis Jones
Also, it seems Olivine is extremely sexy in the new release...

Yeah, there are a number of bugs with preferences and stone in general, since the raw format changed a lot there.

Quote
Quote from: Jimmy
Meanwhile, anyone else note the decrease in the number of items a dwarf likes? Easier to tailor their artifacts.
Quote from: The13thRonin
However I do have one small, tiny, insignificant issue with the changes (I'm sure it'll be just me and feel free to totally ignore this). I'm not sure if it's just a trick of the eye but it seems from the previews that you have reduced the amount of things each dwarf likes.

There are a lot of little unresolved issues, and I commented out a lot of these until those are finished.  Once I handle butchery and some other issues, there should be at least as many as there used to be.

Quote
Quote from: Armok
Is it just me or do (almost?) all of those described dwarves sound kinda ugly?
Quote from: Anfold
I'm somewhat embarrassed to mention this, but I feel that it may be somewhat necessary to somewhat remove some of the somewhats
Quote from: Martin
'somewhat' ... 'somewhat' makes me want to chew gravel.

Regarding ugliness, I think it's true in part, but I think it's also easy to amplify the ugliness in your mind when you read the descriptions.  If you take two people that are considered very attractive that also look quite different from each other, enumerate the differences, and then try to describe one of the people in absolute terms, they'll probably sound uglier than they actually are, because you've had to commit to specific adjectives about specific parts.

In that way, lil helper words like "somewhat" dampen things a bit.  I know there are words that are overused and of course I recognize that parts of the descriptions don't read well at this time, but it's not as easy as it might seem to build the sentences out of pieces and swap out adjectives and so on, while at the same time compacting things into fewer sentences, order things by importance, etc.  It's all very irritating.

Quote from: PMantix
Will it be possible to give our dwarves make-overs?

That's likely too much control, but will dwarves change their hair style from time to time at least?

What about description updates in general? There are a few things I'd expect to see change (strength, fatness, etc) but what about aging? Balding, wrinkles, gray hair? All those fabulous things..

Or how about a graphic description of that eye, nose, eye that just got removed from your face?

Along a similar line (in that these all are based around dynamic descriptions),

Will dwarf's likes and dislikes be able to change over time? Humans, at least, tend to want what they can't have..  so maybe Urist McBoring's love of microline will be satiated once he has filled ever square inch of his bedroom with microline earrings. Maybe then he'll want orthoclase mugs or something..

Nothing like make overs, and they don't change their styles.

You can see age effects in profile 7 for example (wrinkles, gray hair).

Right now, none of the likes change over time.  We could think about something like this when we handle infants not having as many likes and dislike and developing them perhaps, although I'm not sure how annoying it would end up being game-wise to have things change up.

Quote from: Fishersalwaysdie
Maybe Dwarves should have descriptions only for parts of them that don't fit the norm?

It only lists those right now for parts and attributes and personality.  The part descriptions are listed in order of how far from the norm they are as well, so you can skip many of the ones near the end if you like.  I'm not sure what the eventually format will be, in terms of everything being on one screen etc.  I didn't want to mess around with it too much since nothing is settled yet.

Quote from: lordcooper
How can you be frail AND rugged? (number3)
Both neatly combed and cyrly, crinkly hair (number4)

It's difficult to select good words sometime, at least for me, especially when they are subjected to every possible combination.  Perhaps longer phrases as with the mental attributes would be better.  The first dwarf is not physically strong but is capable of taking a punch.

I think you can neatly comb hair that naturally misbehaves.  It is a daily struggle.

Quote from: Granite26
Is there a mechanism for correlation between some traits?   It almost seems like some of the exhibited traits should all be tied back to a single underlying traits.  Nervousness and Bravery for instance, or braided beards and braided mustaches.

I don't know.  The more they are allowed to float, the more sensible yet not immediately obvious combinations can occur, which are quite common in real life.  Somebody can easily be brave and prone to a great deal of anxiety.  It might be reasonable to have some correlations at some point, but I wouldn't want to make them very strong.  All of the mannerisms spring from the personality etc., so there are restrictions there.  I'll also need to handle the willpower attribute vs. willpower in the personality, as there are some outright contradictions there.

Quote from: lordcooper
(Number12) likes "."

Yeah, there are lots of issues with preferences.  There might be some residual bugs, but a lot of it is going to be cleaned up around the time I get to finishing up butchery.

Quote from: lordcooper
How can you have a tall, thin body layered with fat? (number14)

The issue here is that a body can be the opposite of broad, in terms of the shoulders and so on, and then they guy can eat a bit.  It's possible to just suppress the "thin" word, which might end up being the best, but it conveys less information.  Some of the descriptions say things like "would be very thin but packed on a great deal of lard instead" and so on.

Quote from: lordcooper
Q for Toady: If we get to see transcriptions of battles/meetings, will we get to see these working?  Like Urist starts biting his nails when he gets bored etc etc.  It would be cool to see the meeting regress to a nail biting, finger clicking, tongue clucking mess.

I think you'll probably see this first in adventure mode (not this release).  We have battle transcripts in dwarf mode for the next version, but we don't yet have conversation transcripts.  By the time we get conversation transcripts in dwarf mode, any mannerism text from adv mode will almost certainly be brought over, which should be cool.

Quote from: Granite26
Is there Bell Curve for these traits?  Do they bunch up near the center?

They do bunch up a bit, but it doesn't force it as much as it might.  I'm not sure what if anything I'm going to do with it now, or if it really needs to be changed a lot.  It'll depend on how things play out.

Quote from: Mandaril
are these descriptions, charactereistics, likes, dislikes, etc affected by envirioment etc?

Only the ones relative to attributes, fat and so on.  Likes come from the civilization in part, so there is something there, as do hair styles and so on, but there aren't things like traumatic events causing a hatred of spiders or anything at this time.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3656 on: August 09, 2009, 06:37:28 pm »

I understood the "thin body layered with fat" comment, but I feel like "frame" would be a better word than "body" in cases like that, just to make it more clear.

Nice to know that fat content is kept in check by activity. I think we'll be seeing a lot of obese bookkeepers.
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LordNagash

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3657 on: August 09, 2009, 06:42:34 pm »

The descriptions of characters will lead to more bias than i expected, like not just favoring long bearded dwarves, but putting the fastest healers in combat or fishing, and focusing more on training the younger ones to get the most out of their lifetime.

This is more realistic, though.

I mean, if you're looking for someone to recruit to go into combat with you and you've got a choice between two guys, one who is strong, rugged and quick and another who managed to seriously injure himself just trying to open a door, who are you going to pick?

EDIT: Also I just realised I hadn't said it, but wow these descriptions are way more amazing than I ever expected. I was thinking we'd get something like 'X is tall and skinny, with a big nose'

Instead we get the only game where someone can have a pony tail, a neatly combed beard and moustache and a /lot/ of social problems (poor number 9)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 07:02:39 pm by LordNagash »
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Leafsnail

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3658 on: August 09, 2009, 06:42:48 pm »

Quote
I think you can neatly comb hair that naturally misbehaves.  It is a daily struggle.
I can attest to this.

Anyway, a lot of these sound excellant.  It would be really nice to have traumatic events trigger dislikes, but that could come at another point.  Also obesity and so on sounds like it could become an important game mechanic if you have to keep your haulers fit.  You also wouldn't be able to let your dwarves take a year off work like you currently can  ;D.  Actually, that's assuming that being fat will have a bad effect on your fitness.  Will it?  And will it possibly make dwarves want to eat more in future?
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wilsonns

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3659 on: August 09, 2009, 07:09:12 pm »

will be implemented some "cosmetic workshops" like barber shops, and related skills or something like this?

and what exactly is the "squad control mode"?
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